What game is the playfield next to Firepower?
(Topic ID: 243533)
Linked Games
Addams Family, The
Bally, 1992
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2 weeks later
Quoted from kruzman:does anyone know what size T nuts go where on AFM? I want to start doing this for folks, and I have 2 used pfs and the t nuts have been swiped on both
I found out the "hard way", their are two "styles" of "T" nuts used on pinball playfields.
--- For the 8/32 type...
1) Regular size has a wide base, used on bally style playfields: 1970's--1980's.
---- These are used for the gates and upper arch.
2) A non regular size "T" narrow base, used on newer style playfields. Has a small footprint.
---- kind of hard to find. The "T" nut fits almost the same size as a 6/32 style "T" nut.
1 week later
Quoted from kruzman:I wouldn't think that over spray would get up under the inserts, but it sure does. Often reproduction pfs have over spray on the inserts. This one has it on about 8 inserts. I didnt count, but it got me thinking to make this a post.
I always mask the inserts so not to over spray, and also I spray polyurethane on the back to seal. Usually, my best method is rolling on poly clear coat with the pf standing, to get it to soak in to the wood. Then I apply additional coat or coats with a spray can.
When pfs come with the gray primer on back, I dont add poly, but if it is nos, and often needs it, I will repaint. I have been using 2 different materials. either tinted kills total one primer, or gray oil based rustolium[quoted image]
I kind of learned what you are experiencing the hard way many years ago...
I had to prep the underside of the old playfields before clear coating...
Exactly like you are doing. I would stuff the insert first with facial tissue
then tape over it. The guys that did the clear coating used some kind of
cutting fluid that gummed up the undersides of the lenses, when they
would polish the playfields.
Quoted from kruzman:I have used different clears that melted insert plastic. These chemicals are no joke!
Ouch! That sucks.
It cane get very stressful at times, working with stuff that you just don't know
how the chemicals are going to react.
Especially, when the playfields are not yours...
4 weeks later
Quoted from Ballypalooza:Trying to keep Ron’s awesome work in the spotlight. I’m gonna throw this up to everybody to which playfield you would like to see Ron work his magic. Of course, Ron decides what he wants to do and is in the mood for. So upvote either of my next two pics and we will see what Ron votes for next.
NOS Bally Dolly Parton not drilled or dimpled.[quoted image]
Quoted from Ballypalooza:Or, really nice used Bally Embryon field. Would be stunning.[quoted image]
Does CPR have a scan of this two playfield?
I have never seen a clean Dolly Parton.
Quoted from Ballypalooza:If I remember, Ron, have you offered the service to drill and dimple certain playfields. Can I ask how you do that? Do you have a template from other fields?
I have another Dolly I was gonna copy the holes from, but any insight would be great. After it gets cleared by you of course.
For my two cents... I did a bunch of EBD back in the day....
I used an old playfield and used pins and the OEM holes that are on the perimeter
of the playfield to lineup everything ( sandwich style ). then took a small drill bit
and taped through the old playfield onto the new playfield.
Quoted from kruzman:I use a sheet of 3/8 in lexon,
I think in the future...
that someday their would be a digital library of masks, templates, and through holes to every game made...
One would have a cnc table that is programed to
put all the dimples and through holes to nos/new repro playfields...
It could happen.
Quoted from kruzman:I am looking at your dimple template.
I just did a AFM pf that is a demo, or proto, or early production (i am guessing). When I had to make the template I was happy to see it was made by sun, and I have a sun pf to make the template from. Quite often different pf makers of the same title have a slightly different layout. I have learned you cant measure from the wood edge because often the original cnc template was not centered. I guess the best way to say it is they are not all alike, so you have to check your bearings often as to the relation of the other stuff on the pf.
Then the real problems come up on titles that were run at different times like EBD. The parts are different from different production times, so that would mean the holes and dimples are different. They started using light boards rather than strands of daisy linked lights. I have 3 different back side templates for EBD, as well as several front side templates for TAF. It can take a lot of time.
Good insight @kruzman.
Quoted from kruzman:Great deep rule set.
I often school John D. on his game when ever I am over there.
I like the option, if you have strong flippers, of going for the queens chamber...
double value rollover buttons... 50,000pts to 100,000pts & two free games for the special.
The trick is hard... but if everything is set up right it is doable.
2 months later
Quoted from kruzman:HA. There are many in the super cool fella, but few in the super-duper cool fella category.
"Super Duper" is a hidden Data East Star Wars feature.
How did kruzman know?
2 weeks later
Quoted from pbjack:Ron clearcoated my A13 NOS pf a few months ago and after a long playfield swap it is now finally where it belongs. I have only praise for Ron, his work is exceptional and the playfield looks spectacular. Below are a few pics, you can even see the reflection of the rocket Thanks so much Ron![quoted image][quoted image]
Note: Apparently, the prototype had the Earth and the Moon rotated.
Excellent restoration! 
3 weeks later
I assume that the deferent size lenses are made from deferent lots.
Thus, have deferent color lots, deferent manufactures, that where available
at the time.
2 months later
Quoted from kruzman:FREE ADVICE:
Try to remember before you even start a pf swap, if you have roll over, star inserts, test them to make sure they are not clogged up with clear. About 75% of the repro pfs I get here have clogged up star roll-overs.
I cut the bottom nub off the white star, and that way I can drop it in from the top and see if it will fall down in and then move up and down freely. Then I tap the shaf from under with my finger tip and it pops up and out. Then I put it back in the cab mounted on the wall where I wont loose it. I cant use it on a pf now because its no longer long enough.
I use my kruzman pf install kit to get the clear out. I used to use an exacto, but you have to use a super sharp new blade, and even then if the clear is sub standard you will cause lifting. Then you need your kruzman pf install kit to try to glue it back down, and hopefully it will get under the clear and get rid of the ghosting. if you use the dremmil and my kit to grind it clean, then use a tooth brush to clean it up and it will look good. For me I am going to clear it and it will be all nice looking. The clear clogs it so its not just the hole for the star's arms are to thin but they are now too short also. I have found using my dremmil on slow speed gets way better results, because it can very easily get away from you. so it just took me 40 min to do 3 of them on a meteor, but it is what it is.
If I discovered this at the middle or end of the swap, I would be frustrated.
So free advice
Bally had star rollover plugs that fit the star rollovers... I do not know
if the mold is still available to maker them or not.
2 weeks later
Quoted from kruzman:Again on the EBD, you can see my coat of clear has wood grain. That is on the top since its a thin coat. when I sand that flat< then I have a new flat surface to work with
On a side note:
That EBD playfield has the initials to the two pistils.
I have a later version of the playfield and the initials are removed.
1 week later
Quoted from kruzman:And a matta hari that just came in. I have to contact the owner to see if he wants the inserts addressed
And a pic of a score from a dumpster.
I have my deep dumpster diving certification, as well as night time diving (dumpster)
The pic is with all of the nails pulled or cut. half got cut for kindling and the rest to put in the other barn for future projects. I have about 2.5 hours in to it including putting it away. I hate seeing useable stuff fill the land fills. Construction refuse is a huge part of the land fills. Everyone should take a field trip to the dump to get a feel of the stuff that makes up the bulk. so much plastic kids toys! Construction and torn down building supplies.
By the way if you recycle plastic at your house, you should do a little research to see how much american plastic is actually recycled, now that we dont dump it on china. recycling is a ingenious scam for plastic makers and packagers. Takes the guilt right off them.
Anyway sorry about that non pinball yap. Fixing little spots on repro pfs is pretty lame. I will come up with something more exciting in the pf world next week. This week was all touch up/paint work.
Just got a nos Nugent in today. It has an oil based polyurethane that made it pretty dark. also the inserts are "hella-cupped" so sanding them level may get exciting!!!
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On the Mata Hari: are you going to plug and paint the excess thumper bumper holes?
Quoted from kruzman:I am not familiar with what you are talking about. sounds interesting
There are two extra small holes drilled through the playfield that CPR did to each
Thumper Bumper location.
What should have been done, was to just dimple the backside of the playfield,
like factory, for the mounting brackets that are used for each of the four
Thumper Bumper bodies that are used in this game. So in short, instead of
nine holes drilled, there should only be seven holes marked for each Thumper Bumper
assembly location.
1) Two primary holes for the ring and rod assembly.
2) Three for the Thumper Bumper solenoid bracket mounting studs.
3) Two holes for the Thumper Bumper lamp socket.
---------------------------------------------------------
4) The two small holes that are on a diagonal should not be there.
-- These holes should be plugged and painted, but there markings on the
-- backside should remain.
Quoted from phillyfan64:vec-tor do I have this right? These holes should be plugged? Same thing for the other 2 pop bumpers not shown?[quoted image]
True! Yup! Bingo!
Quoted from phillyfan64:Excellent, thank you.
On the underside, what are they for?
The underside markings are for a small thin bracket that holds two #6-32
mounted lock nuts that hold the Thumper Bumper bodies with #6-32 screws.
It was a quick way for Bally to quickly mount the Thumper Bumpers to
the playfield... The old way, has a tendency to split the wood, close to the
main hole, and also strips the screws hole that the body is mounted too.
the old way also uses two #6 wood screws; rather than machine screws.
One must remember that the assembly line are using power tools
to quickly assemble the playfield components.
3 weeks later
Quoted from kruzman:"The inserts are not centered with the print"
I have always thought that a mask layer should have been printed to the raw playfield
first... that way the inserts have a reference registration/alignment point to work from.
3 months later
Quoted from kruzman:Here is some work that has to be done on a centaur. not much I can do for the red lettering that is outside the outlines.
If you have never owned this game, The rules are way more complicated than you would think. I am glad I had Dayhuff show me how to play or I would have never figured it out. I think its the best game of the era, and there are stiff competition.
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I always felt that playfields that require precision placement of inserts and screens should have two
intermediate screens made in a lower color grey...
One for the plastic insert lenses, and one for the color screens that are between the first
primary white screen and the final key line screen.
Then and only then, do the final holes and small markings.
4 weeks later
Quoted from kruzman:So some good advice when dealing with star roll over inserts: use a feather touch with them. They are so easy to break, and those little tabs make it all happen.
My repair on the rollover buttons is to use clear shrink tubing.
If one or two tabs are broken, then you can kind of get away with just shrink tubing the
tabs together.
If more tabs are broken, then replace the base, or shrink tube the white plastic star
actuator neck so as the white star actuator can not pop-out of the base.
2 weeks later
Quoted from kruzman:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Looks like an OEM EBD playfield.
The pistols have initials and the correct, off white, cream color background.
6 months later
Quoted from kruzman:Hopefully the owner of the BH has decided he no longer wants the pf, and I will install it in my game!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Fun Fact: Gottlieb's Black Hole is the only game that I am aware of that has two,
---------- yes two, white screens. One for the base coat and one for the last top
---------- coat; to do all the little specks.
9 months later
Quoted from Coyote:not sure if/what they meant anything, more than inventory checking.
Those serial numbers where designed to control operators from
buying games outside of distributor regions.
In California it was cheaper to buy in AZ, NM, UT.
Than in San Fransisco or Los Angeles... C.A. Robinson controlled
everything that was Bally/Williams in California.
Quoted from kruzman:Its been a long time since I have owned a WPC game, but wasnt there also a security chip as part of the mpu ?
Yes, the security chip made it so you could not swap cpu boards...
Security chip had to match same game software.
3 months later
Quoted from kruzman:So this is an early IPB kiss pf. It had a horrible clear on it that was so full of vapor holes, it was like pock marks every where, as well as dusties. I think it was done in a garage, by someone who had no idea what they were doing.
I started to sand it with the sander and 500 grit, but the depth of the vapor holes was all the way down to the ink. I quickly stopped using the da sander, because I own a kiss pf from this batch, and when I was trying to sand out the holes, I hit the ink several times, and caused problems, but then I hit the ink in the center of the pf and took the word scores right off the pf, thru the white and down to the wood. It happened so fast I had no idea. so I have tried a couple ways to make a sticker for the scores area, but I will have to paint the white, and to make it look right, and would have to paint a lot of it.
There is one pic of my pf. Its the one where there is a sticker on the spot where I sanded it off, just to see how it looked. I realized a sticker wont work I need someone to cut the script with one of those vinyl cricket cutting machines, and apply it after I paint the white.
So I took a beating on this pf, and I would rather sell it for 400 bucks as is to someone who is up to the challenge. CPR has not had any in stock in a long time.
So the rest of the pics are a new job that I was hand sanding, and I had to be so careful, not to get in to the ink. super stressful, so I was taking pics so I would be able to explain to the owner what happened, but because of my experience with my kiss pf, and doing it all by hand, i got the whole things sanded without any damage.
You can see on the edge of the black screens, where the thickness of the black ink makes the block miss the clear on the edge of the black. Its especially difficult in the inserts.
I work under a big LED light system and I have to look at it from all angles to find the shine, as well as the dots, from the vapor holes. Those I had to be super careful with, because there was no clear in the center of the circle. This took most of the day, and this is exactly one of the reasons I went to college. when I was a kid working at a car wash in the michigan winters, the owner used to say you better go to college so you dont have to do this shit your whole life. I do more hand sanding now after 2 degrees, than I did before any college. Its a good lie to tell kids, but I am just pissy that I believed what they told me back in the early 80's, and that was you go to college and get rich.
I cant imagine the product you get when people take a pf to a body shop, and they spray a dust coat, and then spray it. they dont sand it, and if they did they wouldnt be able to fix the issues that they caused.
When it comes to some things, there is no getting around the fact that the more hard, crappy work, you put in to it, makes it a higher quality job
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Ron you did it again... One of you pix from K-I-S-S center animatase itself.
Cool.
1 year later
Quoted from kruzman:VERY COOL!! does it repurpose an existing title? I noticed the signature
It is a Bally "Strikes and Spares" in disguise.
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Roselle, IL
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