(Topic ID: 243533)
Linked Games
Addams Family, The
Bally, 1992
Topic Gallery
Galesburg, MI
The fella I have been buying the gottlieb pfs never let me know that he had more that he may be willing to sell. I am super glad he sold them to me, though. Playfields this old need a bunch of work done besides just spraying them with clear, lots o' work. 007 and pink panther are available, so contact me if you have questions. I have 5 old NOS jobs in the studio right now that I am working on for people, and like I said these are way more time than the usual repro process. So I wouldnt be able to start them until I get the others finished. Or you could do them your self. I am actually not very smart, so I am sure you could figure it out. 
20230424_182432 (resized).jpg20230424_182453 (resized).jpg20230424_182509 (resized).jpg20230424_182515 (resized).jpg20230424_182525 (resized).jpg20230424_182538 (resized).jpg20230424_182547 (resized).jpg20230424_182629 (resized).jpg20230424_182642 (resized).jpg20230424_183336 (resized).jpg20230424_183343 (resized).jpg20230424_183350 (resized).jpg20230424_183357 (resized).jpg20230424_183406 (resized).jpg20230424_183411 (resized).jpg20230424_183423 (resized).jpg20230424_183431 (resized).jpg20230424_183443 (resized).jpg20230424_183450 (resized).jpg20230424_183517 (resized).jpgQuoted from kruzman:Posting some pf porn.
The GnR CE is my new prized possession. Not to brag, but I have nos DE GnR, nos JJP GnR, and NOS JJP GnR CE.
I have still never owned a MM or a AFM game. never really wanted either, but its rare for someone who has owned pins since 1983 to never owned those titles.
The Addams Fam is a mirco repro. I posted it because I like the glitter in the addams fam logo in the center. subtle, yet flash. I dig it
The star roll overs are a job that was dropped off last weekend. I am not sure what happened to them. I am going to call and find out. pretty sure I can make them like they should be
I just got the 007 and pink panther this weekend. I think its the third I have had of both titles this year, and by far the nicest versions.
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The GNR artwork is really something. I like the old DE version also but the translite is gross
Alright for you guys that have used Ron’s install kit do you only use the cone bits to remove the clear from the holes? I am doing my first install and was trying it out on an inconspicuous spot under the wood rails and tried the different kinds of bits and felt I couldn’t get it down and just want to be sure when it comes to the real spots on the playfield.
Also what do you guys typically do, do you drill all the holes first so you don’t get dust everywhere. Then do you go bottom side first or topside first. I felt confident in my abilities until now.
Also worth mentioning this is on a new playfield not a cleared that was previously in a game
As for the install kit, I use the bit that looks like a football the most to remove the clear to predrill. It depends on the pf. Like if it is a mirco and he has the big dimple holes. If it is a pf where the dimple is fully cleared over, I use the big round bit. I use a flat top bit for the t nut depressions.
On some pfs that have the pop-bumper nail/screw lugs, I will use the football, then I predrill and then I will use a big flat bit to get the clear out of the way for the head to counter sit (unless the lug is the type with fins to stop it from turning. you dont want those fins splitting clear).
Dave macy of dmacy on pinside has had a lot of experience with the bits, even more than me. I always use the slow speed on my dremil, but it was his idea to use the cordless drill with some bits.
I have been watching for a champ pub pf for someone, and I cant find the post it with your name. if this is you, get a hold of me please.
Quoted from kruzman:As for the install kit, I use the bit that looks like a football the most to remove the clear to predrill. It depends on the pf. Like if it is a mirco and he has the big dimple holes. If it is a pf where the dimple is fully cleared over, I use the big round bit. I use a flat top bit for the t nut depressions.
On some pfs that have the pop-bumper nail/screw lugs, I will use the football, then I predrill and then I will use a big flat bit to get the clear out of the way for the head to counter sit (unless the lug is the type with fins to stop it from turning. you dont want those fins splitting clear).
Dave macy of dmacy on pinside has had a lot of experience with the bits, even more than me. I always use the slow speed on my dremil, but it was his idea to use the cordless drill with some bits.
I am actually have both kinds of jet bumper screw should I avoid the fin shanks and only use the screw in
I call the nail-screws with the collar of spikes "the Gimp type"
The spikes remind me of the spikes on S and M leather, and ... The Gimp.
Is there are tips for not pissing yourself in terror the first time you lower a spinning dremel onto your playfield?
Side note to Ron - the better half got through the lottery for both Saint Paul PJ shows. Pretty damn nice when they play a mile and a half from home.
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:Is there are tips for not pissing yourself in terror the first time you lower a spinning dremel onto your playfield?
Side note to Ron - the better half got through the lottery for both Saint Paul PJ shows. Pretty damn nice when they play a mile and a half from home.
Yeah a catheter hahaha, that’s why the first time I did it last night I did it under the wood rails so it was an inconspicuous spot
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:Is there are tips for not pissing yourself in terror the first time you lower a spinning dremel onto your playfield?
Side note to Ron - the better half got through the lottery for both Saint Paul PJ shows. Pretty damn nice when they play a mile and a half from home.
OHHHHHHH!
I am waiting to find out about the chicago show. Horrible drive. It takes me 2.25 hours to get to chicago, and another 1-2 hours to get from chicago to the parking lot. And I am the driver. otherwise I would really go insaner
Quoted from kruzman:Also this year there was a DE simpsons with a phenomenal pf.
Quoted from kruzman:Sorry one more question: do you know how many games were played at the show?
If you brought a game, I would like to hear how many plays you had, and what days it was there.
Thanks so much for the compliments! It means a lot to me that you approve. And thank YOU for all the help you gave me over the years (yes years) that I worked on it.
It ended up with 440 games played, it was there all three days.
Quoted from kruzman:As for the install kit, I use the bit that looks like a football the most to remove the clear to predrill. It depends on the pf. Like if it is a mirco and he has the big dimple holes. If it is a pf where the dimple is fully cleared over, I use the big round bit. I use a flat top bit for the t nut depressions.
On some pfs that have the pop-bumper nail/screw lugs, I will use the football, then I predrill and then I will use a big flat bit to get the clear out of the way for the head to counter sit (unless the lug is the type with fins to stop it from turning. you dont want those fins splitting clear).
Dave macy of dmacy on pinside has had a lot of experience with the bits, even more than me. I always use the slow speed on my dremil, but it was his idea to use the cordless drill with some bits.
Is there a different thread about the kit, the bits and how to use them? id like to research this.
The install kit is a bunch of tools I use in the shop to work on pfs, as well as what I have learned over the years as the best way to install cleared pfs. That includes stock repros, to my clear, but especially my clear, because it is a bit thicker.
Clear doesnt like to get threaded or drilled. its a hard brittle material, so if you want a super clean install that wont be a problem after you install and remove parts several times, its important to remove a small spot of clear before you pre drill. I believe in doing a job that will last a life time, so I remove the clear with a bit from the kit, using my dremmil or cordless screw gun, then I pre drill, then I drip a drop of the thinned out glue in the kit. Its thinner than water and will immediately wick thru the wood and lock down the clear from the underside.
also if you are walking in a room and you hit the side edge of a pf against the door and it makes a dent with a 1 sq cm area of ghosted clear. The glue with the needle applicators will fix it.
The kit comes with 12-16 diamond bits of different size and grit that I have picked from thousands. a stone to clean them, and a tool for measuring drill bits and screws. (I like to pre drill with one size smaller than the screw) Also there is 1 oz of the glue, and 6 hypo needles. well 3 are blunt and 3 are needles. the cost is 100 shipped in the us.
That's it. I use the sales of the kits to pay for the heat in the studio.
If you want a kit, you can just email me.
Quoted from ibis:Is there a different thread about the kit, the bits and how to use them? id like to research this.
No separate thread that I am aware of, but Dave dmacy does a good job at going over how to use it. Even with Dave's great writeup questions still come up I have been just firing them off on this thread and everybody including Ron have been a great help
I like to explain the concept of what we want to do, and everybody uses the differently.
Its common to get a pf that has burrs in all of the holes from the cnc bit being dull or going to fast.
Actually the idea for the whole thing came from installing pop bumper nail lugs. I wanted to get them to sit flush with the clear, and I had finned nails. Then I got sick of bending the teeth on t nuts.
Another example is on the totan repro. the holes for the save lane cages on both sides are always full of clear. same with the star roll overs. There is a special bit for stars in every kit.
Quoted from kruzman:I like to explain the concept of what we want to do, and everybody uses the differently.
Its common to get a pf that has burrs in all of the holes from the cnc bit being dull or going to fast.
Actually the idea for the whole thing came from installing pop bumper nail lugs. I wanted to get them to sit flush with the clear, and I had finned nails. Then I got sick of bending the teeth on t nuts.
Another example is on the totan repro. the holes for the save lane cages on both sides are always full of clear. same with the star roll overs. There is a special bit for stars in every kit.
I can attest, to the t-nuts bending. I forgot to clean out one of the t-nut holes my god what a difference between trying to sink them into bare wood vs clear coat
Also the diamond bits do wear out eventually, and the glue only last 2 pfs max, so if you ever need parts for your kit, just let me know, I will help ya cheap. if there is one bit you like, and you wish it were more aggressive I may be able to help w that also.
Quoted from kruzman:Also the diamond bits do wear out eventually, and the glue only last 2 pfs max, so if you ever need parts for your kit, just let me know, I will help ya cheap. if there is one bit you like, and you wish it were more aggressive I may be able to help w that also.
What can you use to clean the glue that is safe for the clearcoat for those of us that get a little too happy with the glue
acetone removes the spilt glue after you immediately wipe it off.
The bit that is super thin like a sharpened wood match stick is what I use for the stars.
finding mylar is on the to do list. Thanks for the reminder actually
Something I've wondered about the kit and the glue used to lock the clear back down around the edges of the hole:
Are there any issues should you ever have to depopulate a part of the playfield? Once a post is screwed in place - can you safely remove it again or will the glue harden and hold things such that removing it risks causing issues?
There are so many shades of black. I could tell this lady luck was not bone or carbon black (which is the dark stuff), so I put a sample of each that I think it may be, to compare. This pf needed 26 inserts keylined. This is after the first coat. If I dont do another, you can often see my pencil mark thru the color. Or when I sand and clean it before I spray the clear, I could take up some paint in an area on an edge where its light/ thin.
I hate second coating anything at all
20230427_100755 (resized).jpg20230427_100846 (resized).jpg20230427_100912 (resized).jpg20230427_100922 (resized).jpgQuoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:Something I've wondered about the kit and the glue used to lock the clear back down around the edges of the hole:
Are there any issues should you ever have to depopulate a part of the playfield? Once a post is screwed in place - can you safely remove it again or will the glue harden and hold things such that removing it risks causing issues?
The point of the glue is to lock down the clear once you remove the clear from the holes. From what I understand (experts feel free to chime in if I am talking out of my ass) you remove the clear in a slightly larger diameter than the screw hole itself so that when you screw the screw into the hole the threads aren't anywhere near the clear. Also more importantly if you ever need to take the screw out, the threads aren't bumping the clear or when the wood peaks as you back the screw out its not pushing the clear up with it. That extra diameter in reaming out the clear gives you that clearence. Vid actually does a good job visualizing on one of his guides and Ron and the guys on here do an awesome job describing the process.
Quoted from mmr61184:The point of the glue is to lock down the clear once you remove the clear from the holes. From what I understand (experts feel free to chime in if I am talking out of my ass) you remove the clear in a slightly larger diameter than the screw hole itself so that when you screw the screw into the hole the threads aren't anywhere near the clear. Also more importantly if you ever need to take the screw out, the threads aren't bumping the clear or when the wood peaks as you back the screw out its not pushing the clear up with it. That extra diameter in reaming out the clear gives you that clearence. Vid actually does a good job visualizing on one of his guides and Ron and the guys on here do an awesome job describing the process.
Yeah, that's my general understanding of it, and I think I can picture the image you're referring to from one of the Vid's threads.
I think my head is just hung up on the idea of the glue gripping the threads of the screw in some weird way. Where unscrewing it would somehow still cause the edges of the clear to come up regardless of the dremel creating clearance. Probably basically impossible. Once you clear a bit of the clear out of the way, pre-drill if you need to and use the glue to lock the edges of the clear back down - I assume you're good to go and there's nothing to worry about should you have to remove things later.
Dumb crap I think about 101.
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:Yeah, that's my general understanding of it, and I think I can picture the image you're referring to from one of the Vid's threads.
I think my head is just hung up on the idea of the glue gripping the threads of the screw in some weird way. Where unscrewing it would somehow still cause the edges of the clear to come up regardless of the dremel creating clearance. Probably basically impossible. Once you clear a bit of the clear out of the way, pre-drill if you need to and use the glue to lock the edges of the clear back down - I assume you're good to go and there's nothing to worry about should you have to remove things later.
Dumb crap I think about 101.
Believe me I am also in the overthinking camp so I know what you are talking about. Let the glue dry before putting the screw in and only hit the sides of the hole where the clear meets the wood and you should be fine
Please tell me I can buff or compound this out!! I just started putting parts on and after I got the apron brackets on I wanted to test fit it just to see how it looked and this was the result. I don’t don’t feel any gouges but definitely have marks in the clear. I know it won’t stay perfect forever but this will piss me off if it’s permanent
Quoted from mmr61184:Please tell me I can buff or compound this out!! I just started putting parts on and after I got the apron brackets on I wanted to test fit it just to see how it looked and this was the result. I don’t don’t feel any gouges but definitely have marks in the clear. I know it won’t stay perfect forever but this will piss me off if it’s permanent
I always put a piece of painters tape in front of the lock tabs before installing..I had an apron once with a burr on the bottom...put a deep scratch into it...prior to me ownig it but I always remember that and now super anal about that issue
Quoted from monkfe:I always put a piece of painters tape in front of the lock tabs before installing..I had an apron once with a burr on the bottom...put a deep scratch into it...prior to me ownig it but I always remember that and now super anal about that issue
Ugh didn’t even think of that so pissed at myself. I don’t think it’s that deep of a scratch hopefully you can just barely feel it. Just looking for some advice to minimize visibility at this point luckily it’s not that obvious of a spot hopefully Ron jumps on today with his words of wisdom.
Quoted from dmacy:I’ve put down little pieces of Mylar where they ride into.
Dave, anything I can try to minimize the visibility of the scratches, I know it won’t look perfect again but hopefully less visible
Absolutely. My clear is sandable or you can just use a rubbing compound then a glaze, then a polish. When I polish the pf after the final sand, I use a hi cut compound, then a regular compound then a regular glaze, then a light glaze, them 3, ultrafine polish, and I use a fine buffer and then the finest buffer.
Then about half of the time, before I ship I use my 3 in buffer and apply a coat of wax, and then buff it out.
They make 3 in buff kits that you can use with your drill on high speed. Even better they make a 3 inch Dual Action buffer that runs off the compressor. this thing is awesome. I buy my pads off ebay. the different colors signify different grit. so you have 2 ways to adjust your aggressiveness.
Your compound, and your pads.
Wool pads are really good for getting out scratches because they are plenty aggressive but dont get hot. It would take me a book to explain how to buff and polish out scratches. Try you tube for your car. I also use my 3 in buffer on my cars, rather than my big 6 in. The big one is way too easy to burn an edge.
I can make a list later today as for the compounds and waxes I use. The best way to go is with 3m finesse it 1, 2, 3. The one is a light compound and the 3 is the ultra fine polish. I would add a more aggressive compound to that. the product I use is a meguires product that I just remembered I am out of and need to order today.
I should have said, just like populating a pf, there is a lot of skill and experience polishing paint. so if you dont know anything about it, find a detailer, or do plenty of study, and maybe practice on your car.
This is the product I recommend for pfs with automotive clear, which is all of them now. It has no bite to it at all. pure polish. to shine and protect. I especially like this stuff because it works great on ramps, plastics and metal wire forms. makes everything less friction and wont collect dust.
I spray it in the area, and rub it around evenly every where I want it, then I use a different micro fiber cloth to buff it out. I keep the 2 towels in a zip loc so they wont gather dust and store them in the game.
This stuff will pull off dirt and light ball trails. If it doesnt, then you need something with more abrasive. So if thats the case this is what I use. you rub it in with cotton cloth or pad, then polish it out with microfiber, like old school wax. This stuff has just a little bite. Not something to use on a sys 11 that you bought off route. This is for home games that got too dirty, and you want to clean and de oxidize. Then you have you use your quick wax after. When ever you use a compound, cleaner, or wax with bite which means it has abrasive in it, you need to do a coat of wax after.
cutting /polishing clear and paint are like all of the trades, where there are a bunch of ways to do it. rarely is the simple way the best. often elbo grease produces the best results. I worked at a detail shop in high school, then learned more from painting cars and machinery back before clear coat, with lacquers, and then clearcoats.
I got up early this morning and made my second trip to Indiana this week. This is a super nice clear. It was sanded and polished out after. you can tell but the compound inside the edges of the cut outs. I spend an hour and a half cleaning all of those holes out. It doesnt clean up nearly as nice after you allow it to dry.
It looks like this champ pub may be sold, but the clearcoated Tommy is not, so drop me a line for details if interested.
20230429_125655 (resized).jpg20230429_125706 (resized).jpg20230429_125712 (resized).jpg20230429_125719 (resized).jpg20230429_125730 (resized).jpg20230429_125756 (resized).jpg20230429_125811 (resized).jpg20230429_125821 (resized).jpgThis cleared Tommy is beautiful. I love the game and the pf, and the clear. There is one slight "flaw" with the clear, and that is there is a little texture is the first 2 in of the shooter lane. you can see there is a little compound stuck in the depressions, which I hope to remember to brush out with a tooth brush.
If you want a fast beautiful tommy, I am selling this for 500 less than if I cleared it!
20230429_130015 (resized).jpg20230429_130020 (resized).jpg20230429_130026 (resized).jpg20230429_130031 (resized).jpg20230429_130040 (resized).jpg20230429_130046 (resized).jpg20230429_130058 (resized).jpg20230429_130108 (resized).jpg20230429_130119 (resized).jpg20230429_130133 (resized).jpg20230429_130137 (resized).jpg20230429_130201 (resized).jpgQuoted from kruzman:I should have said, just like populating a pf, there is a lot of skill and experience polishing paint. so if you dont know anything about it, find a detailer, or do plenty of study, and maybe practice on your car.
Yeah I don’t have much experience at all detailing and probably should not fuck around with it, I assume I could make it worse. Is the risk worth it, I will know it’s there which will drive me nuts. My dads friend owns a body shop wondering if I should bring it down to him
Quoted from mmr61184:Yeah I don’t have much experience at all detailing and probably should not fuck around with it, I assume I could make it worse. Is the risk worth it, I will know it’s there which will drive me nuts. My dads friend owns a body shop wondering if I should bring it down to him
absolutely. he will know if it needs to be sanded or if it can be done with compound
Quoted from kruzman:absolutely. he will know if it needs to be sanded or if it can be done with compound
Ron and everybody that chimed in, thank you all for the advice. Got some help from my brother he is good at that stuff we were able to use the compound and get it pretty much out. It’s just a faint line you have to look really hard to see and given pinballs are going to be rolling all over the playfield and it won’t stay perfect I am going to leave it as is.
Remember, when the pf is installed and cant be moved around, and you can only see it from a small range of angles.
Compared to a loose pf.
Quoted from mmr61184:Ron and everybody that chimed in, thank you all for the advice. Got some help from my brother he is good at that stuff we were able to use the compound and get it pretty much out. It’s just a faint line you have to look really hard to see and given pinballs are going to be rolling all over the playfield and it won’t stay perfect I am going to leave it as is.
Great job MMR’s brother!
I figured I'd post here, cause i'm talking to many experts in this area. If you get a chip on a playfield, is there something out there that will let you touch that spot up, like you would a car with a paint chip (paint + clear)? Like maybe a little bit of epoxy?
Quoted from gk_usa:I figured I'd post here, cause i'm talking to many experts in this area. If you get a chip on a playfield, is there something out there that will let you touch that spot up, like you would a car with a paint chip (paint + clear)? Like maybe a little bit of epoxy?
A pic would help, a lot. A couple things come to mind, but there are a million variables. So post a pic and I may be able to help. with the pic explain if the pf is a repro, nos, installed, and any other info.
I have been getting caught up on painting. If you send a pf that needs paint work, it adds a month sometimes more depending if I just did paint work when it came in.
This is a cpr repro, and the inserts are not lined up good, so just painting all of the inserts that show a crescent of wood, which is every thing on the left side. I have to do double coat when I do this because when I put it on the light table, I can see thru 1 coat.
I just finished the lady luck paint and I am going to do my second coat on these today
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