(Topic ID: 243533)
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Addams Family, The
Bally, 1992
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Galesburg, MI
Quoted from Coyote:Okay, I fucking laughed out loud at that. Well done, both of you.
pretty funny. "sorry that was frustrating" is the best though.
That almost never happens!
I got this in just under the wire of september. when I started blocking I noticed what looked like a little glob of ink that comes off the screens when they get clogged up after being used many times (I am guessing) but lucky for me i have my sherloc holmes mag glass. It was a itsi bitsi gnat! Bastard. anyway lucky I found him.
Otherwise I love it. the light is morning clear direct sun outside. so no cool shade effect to enrich the contrast.
This is the cpr version that I have a couple of
20210930_113237 (resized).jpg20210930_113244 (resized).jpg20210930_113254 (resized).jpg20210930_113307 (resized).jpg20210930_113331 (resized).jpg20210930_113415 (resized).jpg20210930_113426 (resized).jpg20210930_113431 (resized).jpg20210930_113437 (resized).jpg20210930_113509 (resized).jpg20210930_113536 (resized).jpgHere are some pics of prep before another coat, which is scheduled to be the last. notice on the ball hole I ground the clear out of the corners because it builds up too much in there. The prep is where people skimp, and all of the strength of the clear comes from the prep
20210930_152315 (resized).jpg20210930_152332 (resized).jpg20210930_152338 (resized).jpgHave you ever tried toset a t-nut thru 8 layers of clear? it aint easy. So I do this every coat, but before the last coat I make sure to go right down to the wood. Otherwise the dull teeth of the t nut will fold or break the clear. I didnt figure this out until a couple of years ago.
This is the nerve wracking initial sand on a nos monopoly. there are plenty of flaws in the screening of this one. Most wont show and I cant fix the ones in the fade. I no longer try to sand over the inserts with the sander. It makes too much work when the inserts are not level and the edges are not on a key line, that is easily fixed.
I have to sit on the milk crate because butthole louis is mostly def and snores thru the work day
20210930_134651 (resized).jpg20210930_142424 (resized).jpg20210930_143732 (resized).jpg20210930_143748 (resized).jpg20210930_143755 (resized).jpgSanding out those VUK holes is time consuming and no fun. Tried to show how the triangle inserts almost always have cracks
On the 5th pic I could fix that smear in the green fade by making the solid got down 2 in further, but I dont think that area shows
20210930_143814 (resized).jpg20210930_143823 (resized).jpg20210930_143832 (resized).jpg20210930_143853 (resized).jpg20210930_143908 (resized).jpg20210930_143923 (resized).jpgThe handy dandy kruzman playfield install kit is also great for prepping for clear. I use it for grinding out the countersunk areas
Quoted from Spelunk71:Beautiful work! Are there any good videos showing how to use the install kit properly?
There is not, and there is a reason. first I am not professional enough at installing pfs to tell others how to. The other reason is this is a group of tools that I found helped me install my pfs, and also stock cpr pfs. Any pf that is cleared in automotive clear which doesnt like to be screwed or even drilled. drilling can be done, but when I dimpled a IPB pf, every time i drilled in to the clear, it lifted around the hole. This is where the glue kit came from. I got some glue and added a material to make it thinner. By injecting some glue in the raw wood it wicked under the clear and locked it down and filled the gap, fixing the look as well as the function. so its a dozen dremmil bits, a way to clean the bits, a tool to measure stuff, and the glue kit. Like a hammer there are so many used for this stuff. its great to have available. The kit is 95 shipped.
What I dont want to do is make it sound like if you buy this 95$ kit you have all you need to install a pf.
Quoted from dmacy:So how do you fix that wood grain like on The Rolling Stones? The cpr Fire “gold” was like that too.
I have to sand it level down to the lowest point, which is down in the grain valleys. Its really scary because the clear is so thin I get in to the ink super easy. If I dont get the grain mountains level the clear will just highlight them, and make it even worse. I can sand the clear level, but it magnifies the grain under the clear, and looks horrible.
I am going out to take pics of a pf I just finished cleaning out the holes. its a big un.
I suggest ya'll check this out. Its an auction/benefit that several friends are involved with each year. I will be donating an install kit, which is pretty jankey because its just in a zip loc bag, but whatever.
Here is the pinside link
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/project-pinball-auction-2021
I wasnt taught charity in my upbringing. I didnt get turned on to it until about the time I got out of college the first time. I am choosey about where I give, but if I raised kids I would teach them to look at the blessings that take for granted, and think about how a couple hundred is nothing but a big gulp 5 days a week for a year to us but could be the difference between going without meds or food for others. Or better yet a weekend a year is nothing but could be very helpful to others. I will step down now. stay tuned for pics of a completed WPC wide body pf!
This big assed pf came out awesome. There are pics a couple pages back of the touch up I did on popeye's hat, and some inserts. I did have to drill and dimple it. Now its done. Big thank you to my customers for their patience!!
20211002_122008 (resized).jpg20211002_122035 (resized).jpg20211002_122042 (resized).jpg20211002_122102 (resized).jpg20211002_122219 (resized).jpg20211002_122237 (resized).jpg20211002_122244 (resized).jpg20211002_122301 (resized).jpgThat pic above makes me proud. its not easy to achieve over inserts. This is the second pf that I have finished that I am making the clear as thin as I can but still perform and be flat. This IM came out perfect. I want to play it installed so bad. I have owned 2 IM games, and its such a fast game. With this pf, it may be too much for my old ass
20211007_135626 (resized).jpg20211007_135644 (resized).jpg20211007_135653 (resized).jpg20211007_135659 (resized).jpg20211007_135734 (resized).jpg20211007_135805 (resized).jpgI hate saying this because so many people supported me for over 10 years before this, but the process I have honed in the last year or so (mostly changing the depth of the coats and more through sanding and dremmil work) is much better, relative to my old work.
If you havent worked with me in the last 2 years, my clear work is completely different.
Thank you to everyone who supports me. Its always a great feeling when I know the customer is going to be blown away!
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:Question for Kruzman - Do you sign your PF work or put a makers mark on it ?
Just curious if there is a way to ensure if a PF was worked on by you.
I do not, a customer was super cool and made me some thing to put under the clear, but they are waterslides and my clear puckers them up. (when I use them on an insert, I always paint on top of them. Plus they are a bit transparent in that use).
So I have always wanted a sticker to put under the clear like mirco, but I havent got to it.
Often people will email me to see if it is actually one of mine, and often it is not. Though when it is one of mine, not only can I tell by the clear, or remember the customer, There are lots of hints like my packaging, the back side, the fact that it been sanded and compounded, but there is no compound in the sides of the holes. Lots of little things. So until I get a sticker to put under the clear, you can email me for any info.
Quoted from TimeBandit:Handwriting check! Definitely a Kruzman original..
[quoted image]
Man, I laughed so frickin hard when I saw that dumb chicken scratch. Thats as good as a signature for sure!!!! How far is australia from here? like 12,000 miles?
You made my day!
Quoted from jake35:Ron did you have a TAFG playfield for sale?
I found a TAFG this spring, it sold in a day or 2. I have been on facebook since being single. Not to meet women, but just for any communication. Anyway I watch the group pins for sale (I just listed my AC nightmare pf) and first I see the headline, then the pics, the the price and location as I scroll down. I cant see the price at first. basically I play the price is right. I figure the price and then I double or triple it depending on what my mood is. My point is I am just not one of those profit driven people. I am positive I could have sold that tafg for 3500 based on the SALES of pinside, but then I certainly wouldnt want to see the buyer face to face, even though he would probably be very happy for finding it. Then from that point on, the next starting price would be more than 3500. I have my degree in econ. and I totally understand how it works. It was one thing to study it as a 20 year old who wanted to be rich (thats why I went to college at first) and a geezer who sees his customers as pals.
If I were a shrink, I would tell me that I am buying friends.
I would say to the shrink that I have been buying friends and hookers all my life. Sarcastically, of course 
Quoted from Tsskinne:Ooo what game is that? Looks like one I traded to Ron and one point!
Either that or DE tommy?
Quoted from Tsskinne:Ah yeah looking at those connectors and coils you are 100% right. I’ll shut up now haha
Hehehe
Quoted from Coyote:I need to get with you and figure out a way for this to work. I'm still bummed that the waterslides didn't work.
You have invested enough. if you can get the same thing but stickers on clear back ground I will pay this time.
Quoted from TimeBandit:Picked up the PF a couple of years ago. Only putting it in just now. I’ve never been so excited. Ron is a genius.
https://www.aussiearcade.com/topic/97670-tommy-watch-an-idiot-bite-off-more-than-he-can-chew/
[quoted image]
Looks fantastic!!! everything is new. Looks like the mirror is new also. I absolutely love perfection!!!!
so here is a nos I500. that I did the first prep before the first coats. I drilled and dimpled it, and sealed the back. I just need to paint almost all of the inserts because of hairline cracks, and also the big rectangle inserts that have the front of the indy car going in to the red. That insert is always bad looking in the red background. I may break out the airbrush and paint the whole red arch over the top, or I may experiment with ending my paint line under plastics or somewhere where it cant be seen. Its a bummer to repaint such a large area just for the 2 small spots at the end of each end, but as long as th eowner wants it and will pay, I will make it Perfect. This pf is in super condition, but most inserts have a hairline crack usually just ion the corners. I have found if I paint one, I should paint all of them in that lane or area. so I just wanted to document an almost before pic. Plenty of careful sanding!!!!!
20211014_123403 (resized).jpg20211014_123422 (resized).jpg20211014_123432 (resized).jpg20211014_123441 (resized).jpg20211014_123456 (resized).jpg20211014_123504 (resized).jpg20211014_123511 (resized).jpg20211014_123517 (resized).jpg20211014_123530 (resized).jpg20211014_123539 (resized).jpg20211014_123607 (resized).jpg20211014_123614 (resized).jpg20211014_123647 (resized).jpgPrepand more prep. It takes about an hour to prep an old bally repro like cenatur, but these nos pfs have a very thin clear and the wood grain is signiffigant. Plus the inserts are no longer level so its a lot of work. also on a lot of the depressions for t nuts or the ball return that goes to the flippers, those holes have wood burrs from the older cnc technology, and then a bunch of clear on top of them. My clear added on top of that would be hell for the installer. So I apologize to the customers from more than 4 years back when I didnt do so much detail in prep.
So its over an hour and a half to sand, file, and hand sand then dremmil. Its also very stressful because its easy to sand thru to the ink where the inserts are not level. if the corner of an insert is low, and I miss just 1 mm along the corner edge, the clear will ghost there. Always does.
So rather than doing a bunch, I am trying to do 4 a week. I have to remove mylar also, and I now remove the t nuts on the face side, because even with my effort, the clear gets in the threads and makes install a bitch. The pics are not that exciting, except for the owner. I am guessing he like to see the progress? let me know.
as for my helper, I think I was making too much noise and he woke up for a minute to crow at me then get back to supervision
20211014_154640 (resized).jpg20211014_154838 (resized).jpg20211014_181642 (resized).jpg20211014_181726 (resized).jpg20211014_181738 (resized).jpg20211014_181756 (resized).jpg20211014_181812 (resized).jpgBecause I was careful and lucky, I will have less paint work on this one, than on the last one. Not too much less, all of the black key lines need it. I just wont have to break in to as many colors. I got some yellow work around the jackpots, red in front of the crate. they all get that no matter what, some orange and blue and green.
ok forget it. same amount as the last one.
Quoted from dhard:Louie says stop texting and back to the grindstone and up your prices enough to cover some tasty soft can food that big bag of econo dry shit is giving him a sore arse meow ow ow!
No wet food for louie. his poop is all ready so bad. He uses the center of the front of the yard, and I was doing dishes in the kitchen and I could smell his latest! horrible room mate/employee
Quoted from underlord:Where’s Snuggles-Mcgees safety equipment? No wonder he passed out!
HA! Maybe thats his problem!?!?
Quoted from dhard:They say animals often imitate their owners
louis dont have no owner!
Taking the pics of when its done and I am happy with it, has become the best part of the job. I am taking the time to walk back to the house to post them. This is a mirco repro. There is no rhyme or reason to which do it, but this one had a lot of insert movement as it sat and cured.
20211018_111758 (resized).jpg20211018_111804 (resized).jpg20211018_111818 (resized).jpg20211018_111834 (resized).jpg20211018_111839 (resized).jpg20211018_111845 (resized).jpgQuoted from dmacy:That's a beautiful BK2K! Glad to see someone's investing in this title for not just a pf but having your handy job on it!
Ha, yes my handy J is pretty good!
So I have to finish the polish on 2 Jersey jack pfs, potc and W.W. and a Black hole. Then I have about a week of paint work on the nos pfs, and one last day on a paragon. I am back to less than normal capacity, so if you have been waiting, its a good time to get your pf over here.
If I have ever offended you with my "trucker mouth" (as its been called) I am working on it.
swear (resized).jpgI printed a copy to keep in my pocket. That way after I slam out a bunch of f-bombs, I can look at how I could have done it.
Quoted from underlord:Only offended the snowflakes amigo, and they don't count. We grew up in a different time.
These 2 jersey Jack pfs are amazing. The print is perfect except some rogue glitter on the willy wonka. It was less than 10 years ago that stern would cut and paste crap, and then use that 480 or 486,( I forget which computer it was I had) spray paint effect around the pics. So kudos to the person who put it together on the computer, and kudos to mirco for printing it. both look great. then again for the price of these games....
20211022_164730 (resized).jpg20211022_164752 (resized).jpg20211022_164807 (resized).jpg20211022_164822 (resized).jpg20211022_164829 (resized).jpg20211022_164847 (resized).jpg486 dx thats what it was, and my girlfriend's dad pumped it up to a pentium. I played a lot of solitaire. I like the colors at the top of this ww pf. If your name is bob P. these are yours.
20211022_171001 (resized).jpg20211022_171010 (resized).jpg20211022_171017 (resized).jpg20211022_171050 (resized).jpg20211022_171101 (resized).jpg20211022_171130 (resized).jpg20211022_171147 (resized).jpgAt the risk of sounding like a preditor, I always had a thing for veruka salt. I could tell even back then though, she was in to older guys. So I had no chance.
I am super critical of my work, and there is nothing for me to bitch about on either. The guy who owns them is odd as a customer. he is a great customer and cool fella, but he sends a bunch of pfs when he gets them, and then after a year and a half or so he comes and gets them all. Most laid back man I have encountered. I never hear if he is happy or sad, but since he sends more, I assume he is happy. He may be the one that sent the centaur to hep, who doesnt like to install my clear. who ever the owner is I feel bad because clear washers were used under everything because he couldnt screw in to the pf without breaking and cracking the clear.
If you want a clear coat that is flat and stays that way, you have to remove a small area of the clear before drilling or screwing. You cant thread a screw in to the clear, its like glass. The install kit I sell for $95 has a dozen different dremmil bits for removing the clear, plus a stone to clean the bits, plus a size tool and a glue kit w applicators. The glue is for mistakes, or if you want to get crazy, and just drip a drop down the inside of the hole that you made in the clear. This glue is so insane thin it quickly wicks in to the wood, and grabs the clear from under, and all around the hole.
I have told this story before, but once I was dimpling a IPB FH pf, and every time I drilled with the little bit it listed the clear, and ghosted the clear around the hole for about 2 mm. I watered down this glue, injected it in the drilled hole with a hypo, and it instantly filled the ghosting and locked it down. perfect!
This is making me crazy because I cant figure out how to get this from my email to pinside, but I put it on my FB page so here is a link to that check it out. Its a pic of a TAF I did installed in sweeden.
https://www.facebook.com/ron.kruzman/videos/464427571610827/
No comments on that installed TAF pf from sweeden??? WTF, it looks beautiful!
There is a thread here on pinside of dave macy installing a TAF that I sold and cleared (cpr repro). here is a link to that one
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-a-nice-addams-nicer-refresh-and-bulletproofing#post-6572071
Quoted from Manny65:Yes you're right, it's absolutely stunning - I could even see why you wouldn't want to play it, rather just have it to admire the beauty ... but it is a pinball machine and made played
I agree. having a pin you cant play is like having a porn star girlfriend you cant....
I have spent as much time trying to make the surface as tough and resistant to ball dimples as possible. To me it is more important than the look before it gets installed.
Is there anyone close enough to west michigan that can fix a problem with a bone busters? Not looking for a favor, I would like to pay someone. The problem is I have a couple guys around here that can fix bally/williams/sterns in their sleep, but not gottlieb.
Please let me know, or if you know someone i should contact.
Thank you.
Here is some prep on one of the 2 demo man pfs I am doing. Its so hard to sand these down without getting in to the ink. So this was almost entirely done by hand and dremmil. All it takes is missing a little crescent low point on an insert, and it could ghost in the future, and we dont want that.
20211104_160216 (resized).jpg20211104_160224 (resized).jpg20211104_160231 (resized).jpg20211104_160237 (resized).jpg20211104_160243 (resized).jpg20211104_160251 (resized).jpg20211104_160300 (resized).jpg20211104_160307 (resized).jpgWell I think I found the problem with my bone busters. so now I have to move around a bunch of games in storage and pull the mpu's because I have 4 of the gottlieb sys80 street levels, plus I better check the Lights camers action also even though its the first sys 3 I think.
I dont know why the average collector is not in to these gottliebs. I think they are cool as shit, but thinking about it, its prob because they feel like older style games.
Does anyone recommend a board guy/gal who does gottleib?
My fav game on earth is title fight, with IJ, genie and Gnr close behind. I bought a title fight sight unseen, and when it was delivered the top cab is so water damaged. It doesnt help that its made of compressed cardboard. Also in that storage room is a hot shots that is HUO, and has never been cleaned once in its life, as well as silver slugger and car hop.
Yesterday I went and picked up my old mousin around that I used as collateral for a load 10 years ago that I finally bought back. Its a super fun game but needs to be shopped out and gone thru and am thinking of working on another title this winter. If you have bought or sold one lately, let me know how much they are selling for. I am on face book now and even though those games sell I dont want to get involved in that pyramid scheme.
I am looking for a genie in nice shape, and for trade I have a T2, mousin around, and a couple other games and a lot of pfs.
20211109_090913 (resized).jpg20211109_090923 (resized).jpg20211109_090956 (resized).jpgso here is the pisser of the day. Its the mini pf from the JL i finished a month back. I was about 50% done polishing it, and the buffer bonnet grabbed the edge and just melted the clear right off it. I was anticipating this to happen, and I made custom wood blocks to fill in the cut out "bays" as I call them (like looking at a map of a coast line) when its a 90 degree or less edge going in to a bay, it almost always grabs the buffer and at least wrecks the clear. I didnt make the blocks complete and perfect enough to fill the bays and that little gap was all it needed. I even wrote the owner that I was almost finished if the polisher doesnt grab one of the edges. It sure did.
Years ago before I started securing them to the table, one flew across the shop and about wacked the sleeping cat. he is so deaf, he sleeps right thru that 13 amp polisher, and even I wear ear plugs for.
So before i sand and recoat a couple times, I have to make sure to get all of the compound out of the little nook and cranie's of the dimples and what not, and de wax like crazy
20211108_101326 (1) (resized).jpg20211108_101332 (resized).jpgI finally got the paint work done on this paragon, and locked it down w a coat of clear. there was one insert that was not smooth enough to paint, and hopefully the coat of clear I put down will be enough to smooth it, after I sand. the insert cupping and shrinking on paragons make for so much work.
There has to be a story behind it, but I have done so many nos paragons. It may be the most of any nos title.
Its nice to be back to a normal amount of jobs in the shop. Almost everything is nos now, so I have to put on my artist hat, and slow way the f down.
The owner of this paragon has been a prince of patience.
20211030_085414 (resized).jpg20211030_085432 (resized).jpg20211030_085438 (resized).jpg20211030_085441 (resized).jpg20211030_085450 (resized).jpgI have to do something around that star roll over insert at the golden cliffs. the original key line is so far off the actual insert, I will have to make a super thick key line to incorporate the original and still keep it round, so I have to figure that out also, so 2 inserts to paint still
As soon as I finished polishing this pf I threw it in the car, to take it up to the gas station to show the locals, who loved it. One guy named every single wrestler. there is only 2 really that are not on the hulk, and andre.
Thats the first time I have let people see a pf before cleaning out the holes, and I didnt even wipe it down yet. I was pretty excited to be done. I absolutly hate the idea of this being sold. I want this game so bad
20211109_124145 (resized).jpgTommy just got my website all updated. If you havent looked in a while its pinballplayfieldskruzman.com
I am trying to find some more pfs to have in stock, so if you have any you want to sell or trade to someone is makes it easy, and wont give you the jerk'round, drop me a line of what you have. I will sell and ship them on commission if you are interested in that, check with me.
Hopefully the owner of the BH has decided he no longer wants the pf, and I will install it in my game!
20211112_151700 (resized).jpg20211112_151730 (resized).jpg20211112_151748 (resized).jpg20211112_151808 (resized).jpg20211112_151826 (resized).jpg20211112_151859 (resized).jpg20211112_151913 (resized).jpg20211112_151922 (resized).jpg20211112_151949 (resized).jpg20211112_152004 (resized).jpgQuoted from Paulb:your a pimp Kruz...hows louie?
Its like working in the bathroom at dennys. I had to put out a litter box for that idiot because he crapped on the floor 6 nights in a row, because it must be so cold on his little paws. so after squirting, shaming and ignoring, nothing worked except giving him the one thing that I cant stand about cats, a litter box. so i have an out door ghetto assed barn cat, with a litter box, and he seems to enjoy it. I didnt realize I had the fan right above his box to blow out the dust while I sand. The compressor is going, I am sanding, and all of the sudden it was like a bomb went off. that cat aint right. Time to trade him in.
so we arnt talking right now
Quoted from dhard:Sounds like you two have a alot in common they say animals emulate their owners
when did you learn what emulate means?
Do any of you guys have subwoofers hooked up to your games?
Here is why I ask. My sister Kris only has her AC/DC pro, so I got her a party zone, and a friend did a crazy shop job on it (not just clean, but rebuilt coil assemblies and tuned all of the shots).
I have a polk sw10 powered subwoofer I sent home for her to run with her acdc. here is my question: can we hook the 2 games to that sub at the same time, and have both playing at the same time?
Quoted from PlanetExpress:One at a time, you can do it just by hooking up to the different inputs on the sub. For both at the same time, I’d go with this to keep the machine’s amps separated: https://pinnovators.myshopify.com/collections/stern-headphone-kits/products/pinsmx-passive-subwoofer-mixer
If there is never a chance of having more than two pins, the Polk subs normally have a Black Friday deal someplace for $75 or less, so you could buy a second for the cost of the mixer.
Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it. That sub is super high quality for the price. seems like polks prices are super low on all of their stuff. Iknow its chineese, but its well designed.
Quoted from vec-tor:Fun Fact: Gottlieb's Black Hole is the only game that I am aware of that has two,
---------- yes two, white screens. One for the base coat and one for the last top
---------- coat; to do all the little specks.
Thats very perceptive, and correct. I have worked on it and noticed subliminally, but never had that "oh crap moment". What made you realize it?
I really dig useless trivia. I am always yappin things like that I find interesting. Surprisingly, no woman has also found them interesting, nor thinks I am special for being so observant or full of ...crap. I do rock at jeopardy, and love to show that off when someone is over and 7.30 hits
Here's one for ya. when you are age 10 till about 48, and single, you dont think about it. Its just another day, and will change soon. When you are in your mid 50's (I will switch it over to first person) I think about every thing I say, do, and am, looking for reasons why I am in this predicament.
So here is a pic of a pf I screwed up by getting too deep in to the ink when prepping, and somehow didnt notice. My excuse is I had over 50 jobs at the time, but whatever I hate excuses. so there were 3 inserts effected. One of then I had to paint the orange all around it. The other 2 were just black paint. I laid a coat down to see how it looks and I am happy with it. That orange took 3 coats. The customer has been very patient, and I appreciate that, a lot. Now I just have to build up some clear, and I will be done again.
20211117_124650 (resized).jpgpasted_image (resized).pngIts been a couple weeks of troublesome mini pfs. The way this one has been cut so there is only 2 or 3 mm of wood in some places, it will be super easy for my buffer to destroy this. Its way too fragile, so I am going to ship my first pf that is not sanded out after the last clear coat. It still passes my quality specifications.
What I did to re enforce the strength of the wood, was traced the outline on a sheet of 3/8 plywood, so it sits in the hole of the plywood. Then I clamped down the plywood. Of course the wool pads grabbed the 90deg and less corners and just burned right thru the clear, and thank god I didnt destroy it. that's when I looked at the areas that are actually very delicate, and made my decision.
A mini pf takes about 1/3 the materials (clear, sand paper, polish) but it still has 75% of the labor. The only place the labor is saved, is the smaller size means each run across with the buffer and sander is shorter.
The last few weeks every single mini has given me grief, Ij, JL, WWF, BK2K.
I guess if it was easy, no one would pay me to do it!!
I am not whining, I just havent posted much of whats going on in the studio lately
20211117_125410 (resized).jpgQuoted from Tophervette:Glad to read your recent posts! I was considering cutting out the MPF out of the Doctor Who NOS playfield I got from you. As I was considering using it, but I got a CPR one to keep my current game going and added a new ULF vertical lift system to it. Sorry you wool buffer grabs things, I can relate. When I was rebuilding my 68 Camaro, I bought a buffer, wool pads and 3 levels of clay bars to shine up the stainless steel trim off the car. When the buffer grabs the steel spears, that I was holding in a glove, I had to let them go. I wound up buying a couple small pieces that got bent by the buffer going haywire.
I can totally relate! also my first car was a 68 camaro!
Quoted from ZooDude:Yeah, but was it a bitchin' Camaro?
ran over my neighbor!!!
wow that original is smoked. The main pf is roached, wow. was it a reimport? The size difference could be a problem, but its the same on the gold and silver. At least in my experience with cpr there is no difference between gold and silver, especially after 5 months when the wood cures. DR who is a really fun game that I really like. its seems most of them are rather worn. I know that more than half were exported. That mini sure looks nice installed with the cliffies (which are so necessary like you said). I will say it again, thank god for cliffy. a nice guy and makes a great product. I dont remember what game was my first cliffy, I think Gnr and of course I benmt it, and tried to unbend it and use it. It dont work, juts buy another.
Yesterday I got 80% of a Indy 500 painted. all of the inserts need to be painted. oh and I still have to match and paint the red. Finished the paint work on one of the DM pfs also. The other needs both blues and one of the gray matched which I have done, buit I have to start painting. That was the first pf from the batch of nos that I bought, and realized that I cant sand them with the DA sander. I use 600 grit and still whet right in to the paint.
Sprayed 2 coats on monopoly, Kiss LE, stones
The ski moguls made me laugh hard. first laugh of the day. wouldnt doubt it if its my last. working and living alone can have disadvantages. we shall see.
Today I am going to try to get the METALLICA PREM. polished before going to J dayhuffs for Lasagna dinner!!!!! I havent had real food since last thanksgiving I think, or it seems. Cant wait! Hopefully they will send me home w some.
Quoted from zerbam:tell John that Mike Zerba says HI and that I missed him having his party
10-4 headin out now
I didnt get finished on the metallica LE yesterday, I am going to hit it when I get back from fed ex and the auto paint store. I look at that pf and man what an awesome game. I forget who designed it, but its in the top of the last 20 years of sterns games. so much to do great toy amazing art, amazing music close to a perfect game. I bought one without even playing one, but when i have a $6400 game (premium cost new back then), its just a matter of time before a roof or transmission, or april 15 taxes or some BS comes up and I have to sell it. Happens every single time. I guess the good thing is pinball is so liquid.
If you are waiting for me to finish your IJ (not the one that just came in a month ago), BH, or WWF please drop me a line, your pf is complete :}
Here is a completed LE/Premium for the Metalicfans
20211124_135721 (resized).jpg20211124_135736 (resized).jpg20211124_135742 (resized).jpg20211124_135750 (resized).jpg20211124_135805 (resized).jpg20211124_135837 (resized).jpg20211124_135902 (resized).jpg20211124_135918 (resized).jpg20211124_135953 (resized).jpg20211124_140024 (resized).jpgIf anyone is restoring a pf and needs to redo an insert, I have insert decals for like 80 -100 titles. some I had custom made in germany like IJ that are as good as the art on the pf, a bunch of them came from planitary/bay area, so they are all licensed, except the german, and the water slides. Its fun to look theu them and guess the game. These are just a couple. I took a bunch of pics.
When I was restoring pf these are worth their weight in gold when you have a blown out insert or ghosting, plus there is stuff like the area under the slam ramp on FT. Places that are known for being worn on most games of a title, I spent over 1500$ on these and prob used 12 decals total. so i would like to sell some. Obviously cheaper than what they are selling for new.
20211124_140921 (resized).jpg20211124_140934 (resized).jpg20211124_140944 (resized).jpg20211124_141014 (resized).jpg20211124_141032 (resized).jpg20211124_141909 (resized).jpg20211124_142619 (resized).jpg20211124_142808 (resized).jpgQuoted from Jrotten:Ron, Any insert decals for the Data East GNR pin? I’d be taking them off your hands. J
I dont, I tried to get the stuff to restore my used/smoked pf, but could not. Its almost all bally williams
Its been one of those weekends where I am spending all day in the studio, but at the end of the day nothing is done. Today is the worst and I am going to stick it out till its done. I came in for some advill and caffeene.
I was halfway thru polishing a stargazer pf, and you cant see them until you get in to the glaze polish. There were 3 little boogers in the clear that were originally under the surface but when I sanded the surface moved down and part of them is exposed. if they were not directly in the frickin center, I would have let it go, but I gotta make it flashy, so I got the 600 grit, by the time I got up to 2000 grit, 90% of the pf is sanded. each time I went up in grit, I have to make my area bigger, so soon as this kicks in I am going back out.
Louis meds for butt worms still have not come and he even crapped the bed last night. his not mine. I have been cleaning up pudding for 2 weeks and its pissin me off to no end.
I got some coats down on monopoly and hobbit. 2 on each.
I am at the point where I need to da sand and hand sand a bunch of pfs that have been coated and cured (almost) bally st, lotr, stars, Kiss LE, tspp, paragon.
I hope everyone is enjoying their big weekend. it has me so screwed up. I kept thinking yesterday was sunday, and today seems like monday.
Quoted from Ballypalooza:Better weather coming this week, they say. How’s the work backlog looking?
I think its officially winter this week some time. The work flow here at the compound is back to normal. I have 5 or 6 wpc NOS pfs that require a lot of work, but thats normal. I am back to 6 days a week which is fine w me at this point in time.
Paint work on BK2K with ghosting, and all of the black on I500. Now the red is matched, Just have to paint that area, which is large. Its doesnt have a natural border to stop the color at.
20211129_165307 (resized).jpg20211129_165344 (resized).jpg20211129_165354 (resized).jpg20211129_165407 (resized).jpg20211129_165414 (resized).jpgHere is that nos DM2 that was in the spray booth. I got all of the inserts painted and locked down with a coat of clear. I think I posted before pics earlier on the previous page. These WPC nos pfs are like 25 years old now which is insane!! but pretty much all of the inserts have cracks that have to be painted.
20211130_125614 (resized).jpg20211130_125620 (resized).jpg20211130_125714 (resized).jpgI made this headboard with my mentor/teacher/friend back in 1995, while dabbling in metal furniture. I had to sell it because needed the money, and I was over the buyers house lately and took a pic, so I could torture my self a little more. That circle in the center is a slice cut from a sewer pipe, as well as the 2 big partial circles on each far side. Often when I see "found art" it looks like garbage repurposed as art. Not a fan of that angle
20211119_201230 (resized).jpgThere are all kinds of sinister ideas that went in to the design. I am super happy how it has aged. I was really concerned with the finish, and spent a lot of time blending and wire wheeling it to make it all uniform before clearing. I wouldnt have done that now. At that point in my life everything had to be perfect, and I mean perfect, from symmetry to the finish of the cut pipe material that was very rusted on the insides and outsides. The fella I worked with back then was so much smarter than me, I musta drove him nuts. It wasnt until a couple years in to playfields that I started understanding what I thought of as "imperfection". It helped to understand the difference between correct or right, and perfect. Its funny in my opinion, that my artistic outlook was changed by studying the bible.
Someone who bought one of my install kits emailed to ask if he should use it on the t nut depressions and this was my reply. (I would never post a personal email, but I will post my response)
you betcha, get all of the clear out of there. otherwise the teeth of the nuts bend. also I dont remember if they are on that title, but the counter sunk pop bumper lug nail/screws are the first reason I came up with the kit. you need to remove the clear out of those so you can make the nail head sit flush. Pre drill everything!!! do not tighten till you are done and do not over tighter!!! do not over tighten!!!
Use nylon lock nuts where ever you can. those dont have to be tightened down. I like them for holding my plastics down because I have the nut screwed onto the nylon so it is not coming off, but the plastics are sitting loose and if they get nailed by a air ball they are less likely to break.
I am going to take one of the cpr TAF pfs I have out to the shop, and get it in the line up. My plan is to get it to the point where it just needs the last coat, and get block sanded and polished out. that way I can have it ready in less than one month. If I still have it by the time its ready for its last coat, I will do that, but hold offon blocking and polishing until its sold. In that case I can ship within a week. There will be a small premium added to the cost.
Lumber went up 50% again. I am nailed on lumber. U used to charge 75 for my crate that holds 2 pfs and has all of the . Its screwed and glued with poly gule and they last about 10-12 round trips, sometimes i will replace the lids if one comes thru and is looking ratty. anyway I originally raised the crate price to 85 (a 10 dollar increase) because I thought it was temporary, but this is the third group of crates I have made since the sheets of plywood went from 13 dollars to 45 or more. The cost of 1x stock doubled. so now I have to charge 100 for the crate and packing. if you want to make your own, that will be great and i will give you my measurements, so its as small as possible but is protective. every inch that is not necessary cost more to ship fed ex.
Also a lot of folks dont know this, but if you have a valuable pf that you want to send to me, you can buy the crate you are going to buy when the job is done in the beginning and I will ship it to you empty. Then it takes less than 5 min to insert the plank and screw the top down and it is safe to ship.
Spending the money on the crates is worth it. Just yesterday, I got my second denial from the usps for a box of coins that they lost. I paid 85 bucks for insurance. It was delivered by a substitute fill in mail person. it said insured for 3400 on the box and get sig. The carrier signed it with a scribble and left it on the porch. surprise surprise, it was stolen. The post master in FL wrote me a letter that they were totally to blame. so my first claim was denied, and my second appeal was denied. I have lost 3400 bucks, 85 for insurance, 29 for shipping, and about 6 hours. Plus my local postmaster put 2 hours in helping me write the claim. so as I learned about 13 years ago from UPS, insurance is bullshit and you better do your due diligence, because they will not and they are not going to pay you. I thought about putting on my website that I wont deal with usps and they are not credible, but like they would care at all.
I will never pay for insurance again. I will do my due diligence, and if I cant afford to burn the value, I wont ship it. There is nothing we can do about it. No I dont have a machine gun.
Quoted from djblouw:You should invest in a portable sawmill. Then you can just cut trees down on the property and use the lumber for crates. Or, use those massive logs by the road--those things are as tall as me!
Trust me dane, I have been wanting to set upa saw mill since day one out here. I get so frustrated at lowes because of the quality of the 1x6 material. I go thru and cherrypick the best 15 of the whole palette.
A friend bought a property and had to have the house demo'd. I went in and pulled up all of the maple floors and used them for crate material for years. the wood was so dense that I had to crank up the pneumatic guns, and dry wall screws just snapped. I found a demo job this spring and asked if I could dive the dumpster if I didnt make a mess and didnt sue them. They let me. Nothing I could use on crates, but a good year of kindling for the 4 wood burning stoves. It would be so nice to run across a bunch of stock and just pull the nails. I been watching for plywood on CL and FB, but nothing.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Finding quality wood is a royal pain these days. Most Canadian Mills were bought up by USA companies in the past & then shut down. Less mills in North America.
You aint just whistlen dixie!. in my past life I specialized in restoring historic buildings, and I ran across a family of dutch folks in grand rapids that specialize in furniture quality wood, plus they make plywood laminates, and I used to have them make custom trim. I would pay to have a blade made, and then they could make as much of the trim I needed.
I wish I could afford to use them, and work with their lowest cost wood which is paint stock poplar. Its nice to use wood dense enough to snap screw heads off.
I have noticed that two of the repro pf manufactures has been sending me pfs with problems with the laminate on both front and back. Must be slim pickings.
Quoted from omnibuscortex:Hi Ron, What type of paint do you use for your touch ups? I've been having a hard time with Createx.
what problem are you having. I really like golden paints but they melt under my clear. sucks, so I use liquitex for the most part. I use a lot of apple barrel, but they are getting to be 10 years old now and getting chunky. I have between 1200-1300 bottles of paint, and about 40 % need to be replaced pretty soon. I have been running them thru a strainer. you cant go wrong w liquitex paints for sure. They dont pay me to say that unfortunately.
I got a new game set up in the living room, after the help of mr Schudel, this game plays amazing. Way faster than my eyes, and great call outs, they arent even cheesy, just really good. I had never played the game before or seen in person. I bought it folded up. It was torn down to the bare wood, and all assemblies rebuilt, all new plastics, some targets, rubbers lights, but the cool thing is the strength of the coils is turned down, and it hits so hard and fast. I can definitely feel my age when playing this one. I have all 3 playboys, and I have a pf for the bally I want to get done this year.
20211212_102723 (resized).jpg20211213_094335 (resized).jpg20211213_094347 (resized).jpg20211213_094401 (resized).jpg20211213_094410 (resized).jpg20211213_094423 (resized).jpg20211213_094435 (resized).jpg20211213_094456 (resized).jpg20211213_094911 (resized).jpg20211213_094921 (resized).jpg20211213_094944 (resized).jpg20211213_094958 (resized).jpgActually you may be able to tell from the pics, 19/20ths of a dimple pattern. its going to have to be good enough. it was cut to fit in a drop ceiling grid.
Quoted from chad:What happens in the event the shipment never makes it or is severely damaged ( playfield cracked or what not)?
In my business it has not happened in 12 or 13 years once I designed a wood shipping crate that is designed for abuse, but keeps in mind the smaller and lighter the less it cost to ship. I wont send any pf that I cleared in anything but a crate.
if a pf is damaged in transit its just like anything else, you make a claim and hope it gets paid. Like I mentioned above I just got my second appeal denied for the insurance I paid to usps for 3200 wortth of coins that was lost/stolen, because of the delivery person. what can I do sue the post office. yes, but I dont have an attorney on retainer any more.
So here is a question for everyone, or maybe you can pass it on to anyone you may know that has an experience or opinion:
I have a client that has an original MM game, and owns a CGC repro pf. the question is we know the dimples are off, but otherwise, is it feasible? any info is appreciated. Thank you.
Quoted from edward472:What happened to the squirrels? Or did I miss the post where your set them free to roam Michigan?
I would like to know myself. One day I got a text from my girl that it was over, and she would talk about it after she digested it for a day. She blocked everything, wouldnt return or accept calls. her parents blocked me. Then a month later, she is in love with another and all over face book with pics of him and them, but not cedar, poplar, and cherry. So no frickin idea. They would have fared best here, but whats best for the kids is rarely the issue in a divorce.
My buddy Nic and his beautiful wife, drove out from wyoming yesterday and picked up his paragon repro that was sitting in my spare room since aug I think. I forgot I had it, but we unwrapped it half way to see how the cleared faired over the 4 or 5 months, and it was PERTFECT!!! I have a nos paragon in the studio, and I thought it was done, but I may make the key line thicker around one star roll over. actually I should ask the owners opinion. since there is a lot of clear down all ready, it wont be prefect if I paint on top of a couple coats (assuming I sand off a lot, there will still be a couple coats since I used clear to level the pf and inserts. I am Very happy with the results of this nos, but NOS paragons are are so much work all of those inserts need to be painted, especially after I sand it. It seems like cpr did their best work on that pf for some reason. every one I have done, has been a beauty.
Thank you for the meat. I was sharing the sticks last night with lucky strangers.
If anyone has a nos or repro pf that want to sell or trade for work, now is the time. Let me know.
Hapy holidays and thanks so much for the support, not just for the job I have but all of the great folks I get tight with. It can suck selling something you create, and when I get to know people, I get excited for them, and want to bug them to get it installed!!
here is the nos paragon. Right now I am liking the way it looks, mostly because it looks like the repro that I like, and its just sitting better, when I think of it installed, with the plastics and posts and what not. also the other nos DM I am working on. The DM required a lot of paint work, as well as the paragon.
20211224_140416 (resized).jpg20211224_140526 (resized).jpg20211224_140543 (resized).jpg20211224_140639 (resized).jpg20211224_140832 (resized).jpg20211224_140836 (resized).jpg20211224_140840 (resized).jpgNos I500 that needed all inserts painted plus the red arch and the red areas in the middle where the front ends of the cars hit the red. A Grand liz. thios is the first pf I cam clearing used without any paint work. I removed the mylar and did a bunch of sanding and 2 coats. Goping to leave it as is, and put a kruzman clear on it (flat and perfect)
also some work on a nos ft. those big ugly fish on the loops always need to be painted because the crack around the inserts shows good on the white, plus all of the inserts had a crack in it
20211224_140719 (resized).jpg20211224_140733 (resized).jpg20211224_140934 (resized).jpg20211224_140951 (resized).jpg20211224_141000 (resized).jpg20211224_141016 (resized).jpg20211224_141234 (resized).jpg20211224_141247 (resized).jpg20211224_141258 (resized).jpg20211224_141309 (resized).jpgI thought it was odd this morning that louie was waiting at the door rather than sleeping in his heated bed in the shop, in my kayak. he followed me out to the shop and when I opened the door I heard a tussle over at the kayak, and saw the brown hair and figured another deer came in. Then I realized it was a big brown pit bull. a big un. I had the door closed behind me, and he of course had no collar and was growling at me. I got down low to show submissive, and was using my nice voice, and I never got that break where his tail started to wag or ears relaxed, so I opened the door, and stepped aside, and he went for the door. I have never seen a pit bull move that fast.
I know dogs well, and have been bit plenty, and the way he ran without even looking back to see if I was giving chase tell me he was not looking to make friends.
I am out far enough that the one county sheriff who does the dogs wont come out unless you have caught the dog all ready. I have a cat trap that works great, but this is a good 80 lbs dog.
anyway ol louie was smart enough to keep his distance, and wait for me to walk out there with him. He is a lover, not a fighter after all.
Quoted from JLay:The FT playfield is looking good Ron! Been hoping it would pop up here sometime. The swap will be a fun project this year…
It sure is. very happy with it. FT is a great game to restore because its affordable relatively speaking and I have never tired of it. If you have the money, getting the reel and hardware nickel plated is amazing!
yesterday the weather was 55 and sunny and I wasnt in the mood to work, and I could have sanded everything outside. today freezing rain slush sucks!
DUHO!
Quoted from dmacy:FYI to you, Ron or anyone wanting to get something for him to work on, CPR has a nice end of year sale going on.
https://classicplayfields.com/year-end-sale-2021/
Picked up a wizard and flash gordon pfs, plus the plastics for the wizard 1800 for all shipped. good enough. I want to get another wizard game, but the only one around here is way out of my price range.
Quoted from knockerlover:BH playfields arrived, Ron’s work is unparalleled. Pictures don’t do it justice. Thanks Ron for helping me with this crazy idea, and executing it so perfectly.
Here’s a sneak peek, lower playfield UV reactive paint effect is much more pronounced in person.[quoted image]
Hells yea! That came out great. I didnt have a black light, so I made sure to tripple coat the things I painted because the paint was thin, but I couldnt tell what I had painted,so I just did my best. This is going to be an amazing game!
Quoted from knockerlover:BH playfields arrived, Ron’s work is unparalleled. Pictures don’t do it justice. Thanks Ron for helping me with this crazy idea, and executing it so perfectly.
Here’s a sneak peek, lower playfield UV reactive paint effect is much more pronounced in person.[quoted image]
Is there a light kit available, made for this application? or are you putting something together your self? also whats involved?
Quoted from knockerlover:The lower playfield area is illuminated with #313 28v bulbs. There is a documented modification to convert them to 6VDC.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Black_Hole#Replacing_Black_Hole_Lower_Playfield_Illumination_Lamps_with_.2344_Lamps
I plan to leverage the existing lower playfield illumination with UV LED towers, and possibly mix in some white. Will need to experiment with the Playfield window to see if blue is translucent enough or if I need to create a clear one.
Re: BH window. I see what you mean. originally they used the tint of the lens to sort of achieve the effect. So if you have nice strong UV lights plus some white, it could be a little darker than you want. very cool.
This is a mirco BK2k that I took a pic after wet blocking, before polishing. Then one after polish. I still have to clean the compound out of the edges and put a coat of wax down. This had either ghosting, or it could have been glue showing in the inserts so I had to make the key lines about 2 times the original size. It looked pretty crappy. It came out great. very happy.
20220102_155511 (resized).jpg20220103_082122 (resized).jpgso this is an IPB TAF pf. There are 2 areas of concern I want to talk about here, and they are also an issue on the cpr versions (but not mirco).
First there is the purple box where there is suppose to be a UPC sticker. sometimes there is the empty purple box sometimes it says addams fam inside the box.
Personally I would want a upc sticker in there even if there were no box like on the mircos, but the empty or box with TAF in it are an obvious flags that it is not an original or nos pf. so I have upc stickers available. They wont be the same number as the serial number on your game, but I think only a cop would compare VIN numbers.
The other thing is for some reason the IPB and CPR pfs are not fully drilled in the pop bumpers and around the fester hole. there are 4-6 holes that have to be drilled on both sides of that hole. Plus youmay notice that the holes for the 3 pop bumper lugs, and the 2 holes for the wires are not done.
so if you want this stuff done please let me know. There are 2 tafs in the shop right now that this applies to, so let me know if you want me to drill or add a UPC sticker.
Thanks again for your support, ron k
20220103_124506 (1) (resized).jpg20220103_124516 (resized).jpg20220103_124522 (1) (resized).jpg20220103_124529 (1) (resized).jpg20220103_124540 (1) (resized).jpgcrap wrong pics. this is a CPR. so it has the purple box with no upc sticker, but this one is drilled. The IPB is not drilled and many of the nos are not for some crazy reason.
Quoted from rockwell:It's Lizzy! Excited for this experiment
I just epoxied the back of the inserts on the G Liz. I have 2 coats of clear down and I noticed that there was a bit of movement with the changes in temp. the shop varies from 45 to 75 thru the day and night.
This week I sprayed coats on the IJ, NOS demo man (the one I sold. I have 2 in the shop right now), last coat on the LOTR. I dont remember if I sprayed the nos FT. I thought i was done spraying it but I decided it needed another set of 2 coats, because of the paint work, and it was nos rather than repro.
The monopoly and hobbit are block sanded waiting for polish
Quoted from underlord:Oh the DM may be mine? Awww yeah…
Yes sir, I locked down the paint work, and I have to do just 2 super thin lines, that I have to tape, and the take kept lifting my paint work and pissing me off.
I have been playing the DM at a local bar it looks and plays like new, and if it had this pf, lord have mercy, its going to be so fast!!!
They have 50 pins at thei place called one well, and between the pins and the 2 person gituar hero, they are making some bank!!!! its only 75 cents per game. Even on the GnR le (second highest score last I checked). I had chris put my name in and it took the pic of him! thats what I get for wanting to relax and have my coffee.
here is a couple pics of the nos ss I am working on. all of the paint work is done, now I just need to build up 4 more thin coats.
I have been working till 8-9 the last 2 weeks because everything slows down so much when it gets this cold and the snow makes it so I cant sand outside. it takes a long time to get the spray room to 75 deg. still not getting as much done as in the warm times, but I am looking at it in the long run. I think most folks know I work 7 days a week, but I do work slow. efficient, but slow. High quality... but slow
20220106_153243 (resized).jpg20220106_153332 (resized).jpg20220106_153342 (resized).jpg20220106_153351 (resized).jpg20220106_153415 (resized).jpgShadow is many of the pins that can stand on its own with just its art and looks! Or the bally christiansen games. sometimes that are not that deep but wowza. I really dig when people post pics of getting them installed. It motivates the heck out of me. I gotta get off my ass!!!!~!
Quoted from CashMoney:So my buddy and I are finally getting around to doing our Shadow PF swap. Big thanks to Ron and his amazing work on my CPR Gold PF, I couldn't be happier with the end result. Here are some pics before it gets installed and a pic of the original PF. Ron also did the Mini PF, but I forgot to take pics of that.
I'll be sure to post pics of it fully assembled!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Please try to remember to send pics of it done, or partially. I am always interested to see how much people do you make it their work. even if its just the little things. Like mike schudel makes his own ramp flaps. they look amazing. Also I have been talking to a customer who makes custom targets. so instead of a rivet in the center, there is a small mach screw, and he prints anything you want on them. I am hoping he starts a little side biz doing it because its so cool, and not obvious at first, but once you notice it, they are very delux!
Finished the monopoly last night and the JJ hobbit the day before.
I have the LOTR block sanded and ready to polish next. Its been too cold to spray since monday. when its below 30 my sander freezes up, so this weekend and the following days I will have to conncentrate on art work, and drill and dimple.
I need to make a template for who dunnit and CONGO if anyone has a used pf I can borrow I will pay for the shipping, and owe you a favor.
I will try to take some pics of the monopoly and hobbit right before I wrap them
FOR POTC OWNERS:
I am always happy to see other people making parts or assemblies, or upgrades, or services for pinball in their home/barn. My bud michael is unbelieveable talented with electrical design as well as mechanical, and came up with a new system for the ship motor assembly on Pirates of the carrebean. Me and my sister love that game, and I have heard that when on route the motor that brings the ship down dies.
so michael designed a new board and motor assembly for the ship and sent me some pics. I have to ask if I can post the video, but if I can I will. This could be great for people with this game. I know its a very expensive fix, and his goal was to make it much less expensive. I love this kind of stuff. so watch for me to post links for it (if he agrees) and you can contact him if you need one!
here are some pics of a LOTR that came out perfect. Love it though I have never owned that game. also a pic of louie, and the river over the banks
20220116_090406 (resized).jpg20220116_150056 (resized).jpg20220117_132615 (resized).jpg20220117_132631 (resized).jpg20220117_132638 (resized).jpg20220117_132646 (resized).jpg20220117_132654 (resized).jpg20220117_132713 (resized).jpg20220117_132735 (resized).jpg20220117_132751 (resized).jpg20220117_132823 (resized).jpg20220117_134126 (resized).jpgand here is a link to some pics of that POTC ship assembly replacement system if you are interested. The fella's name is mike fiorill andI can give you his email
Quoted from dhard:Louie says as the real star of this thread he'd like some sardines while he watches you work [quoted image]
since dum dum is deaf now, he lays in his new bed up on a work table while I run the polisher or sander. occasionally the compressor will be off as well as all equipment and I can hear him doing his version of a purr which is more like a mourning dove. its great. I just wish he could work and talk at the same time.
Quoted from Paulb:he has you believing he is deaf.....hmm
I didnt even think about that angle. Out smarted bya kat again!
Quoted from CashMoney:More progress on shadow. About halfway on moving the harness.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Nice and clean! the harness and all of the hardware are cleaned and new. that makes a huge difference when its done. It can look new, or only repaired, if all of the hardware is dirty
Quoted from CashMoney:More progress on shadow. About halfway on moving the harness.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I blew up the pics to see the details. great work, looks awesome!
Someone sent in a IPB addams family PF to clear and tweak out. The first thing I noticed is it looked like it was missing a lot of holes. I compared it to the nos here and obviously the pop bumpers were not drilled, nor the side rails. There was only a couple dimples missing but lots of the holes that are 1/8 and one size smaller. I added a total of 46 holes and dimples
20220123_140325 (resized).jpg20220123_140330 (resized).jpg20220123_145923 (resized).jpg20220123_155252 (resized).jpgThis is the NOS FT I have been working on forever. finally done, and I took pics right before I wrapped it up. It got drilled and dimpled. All of the inserts were painted and the 2 inserts of the big ugly fish on each side got painted white and yellow, because the stock art, you can see thru as well as the cracks going thru the lighter color look bad. Also I always paint the spear, the eskimo has in his hand. Originally its left for wood, they dont use a color on it and most of the time, I dont like the way it looks.
20220123_134441 (resized).jpg20220123_134450 (resized).jpg20220123_134456 (resized).jpg20220123_134508 (resized).jpg20220123_134517 (resized).jpg20220123_134529 (resized).jpg20220123_134548 (resized).jpg20220123_134600 (resized).jpg20220123_134619 (resized).jpgOften on NOS pfs like the FT you see odd little lines that look like mistakes. what they are is guides for the mylar install at the factory. If I am painting the area, I cover them, like the Indy 500 I am doing.
Todays high is suppose to be 25 and I am having a heck of a time keeping my spray room over 70 at this temp. its suppose to be like this all week. I allready went thru and DA sanded all of the pfs, which takes 20 min each on ave, so I have to do all of the hand sanding on all of them. I am going to watch for the ave time it takes. There is 5 times more holes on, say a JJ hobbit compared to a stargazer. somtimes it takes 45 min to hand sand all of the holes, and I do it between each set of 2 coats. I would pay someone pretty well to hand sand for me!
20220124_122409 (resized).jpg20220124_122546 (resized).jpgso this is a big chunk of what you are paying for when you have me do a pf. This is a nos DR WHO, and its a linc smith pf that had the thinnest clear you can imagine. I am guessing it was going to be shipped to sun to get diaMOND coat or plate (whatever they called it) so all of the inserts could be felt. You can see there are cracks around all of them. the arrows and triangles were lifted at one end or another which is very common on all nos pfs. The hot dog insert at the bottom is very lifted. I tried horquing it down with a plank and a screw clamp and it doesnt want to move, which means the glue is doing its job, so I will; have to bury it in clear.
Now days I take out all of the t nuts, because if they get clear in the threads, and it sits for a year or 2, many times that clear wont pop out, so the t nut has to be removed and replaced, and I dont want that to have to be done on my clear, so its better just to reinstall when doing the installation. I remove the clear with the install kit dremmil between coats, so there is just a thin coat in there.
Its so important to sand in that crack around the inserts. I have found thru the years that is the clear will fail any where, it likes that place the most.
There were too many t nuts on the mini pf, and the thin wood that connects the 2 pfs together was not very strong at all. so rather than the buffer separating them in a not so gentle manor , I cut it out properly. This was over 2 hours of hand sanding and dremmiling (not including the mini that I havent done yet. I have to find out how much I sanded off that insert at the top left side. Hopefully its just the remainder of that one letter. I have to find some pics. I was being super careful and still sanded that off!
so when you have a body shop or friend spray your pf for you, you are getting what you pay for. Its a lot easier after the first time, but I have to do this at least 4 more times.
20220126_163054 (resized).jpg20220126_163105 (resized).jpg20220126_163115 (resized).jpg20220126_163118 (resized).jpg20220126_163126 (resized).jpg20220126_163134 (resized).jpg20220126_163139 (resized).jpg20220126_163202 (resized).jpg20220126_163212 (resized).jpg20220126_163223 (resized).jpg20220126_163235 (resized).jpgThat shadow is looking fantastic, thank you for the update pics.
Here is a little knowledge I will drop on ya all. Its pretty common for people who do it for a living, but most people dont know.
When you remove tape from a surface, you want to pull it back on its self. Rather than pulling it up at a 90 deg or less angle, bring it back and pull on it. That way it is not lifting. I say this if you are using tape to paint a straight line (in that case I pull back as well as away from the new paint) but also for tape and mylar. if you pull it back on its self, the energy is on the tape, not the surface.
No charge. your are welcome!
Its been way too cold to spray. last week I only sprayed 6 pfs, but I have been focusing on prep.
The clear is so thin on the wade krauss pfs that I just hand sand them now rather than hit them with the da sander and take out black paint. Black is the last color applied, so it is the highest, and gets sanded first.
20220203_125344 (resized).jpg20220203_125359 (resized).jpgI dont think I have ever done a beatles before. this one came out perfect. Plus stern did a good job on the print. Its very tight, looks like digital print.
Maybe you are the one person out there that didnt know they borrowed this pf from sea witch. smart idea for a good designed pf. One less expense I guess. Some designs are so good that I dont mind one bit. Gottlieb did it for decades.
The temp is suppose to be high enough to spray all week!!!
20220207_153606 (resized).jpg20220207_153620 (resized).jpg20220207_153633 (resized).jpg20220207_153649 (resized).jpg20220207_153702 (resized).jpg20220207_153706 (resized).jpg20220207_153724 (resized).jpgQuoted from underlord:It’s gotta be killing you not making progress. I get the feeling you’re a worker bee.
definitely. I get depressed if I am not working, or being productive. I love to read, but its so hard for me to justify the time to read for pleasure like fiction. Often I will read psychology, self help, spiritual books, so I dont feel guilty since I am working on being better.
Here is a cpr TAF. its a silver from when they first screened them, and more than half of the inserts either show the wood, or have an issue with the key lines, so I have the time in the winter to go thru and make this stuff disappear.
I do have some new pfs in stock:
ElDorado. by wade of course (beauty)
Sing Along " "
Flash Gordon
Wizard with plastics Both are cpr. I have 2 NOS wizards, and neither are dimpled so I bought this to get the dimple pattern. Now I just have to find some plexi that cost less than the pf!!!
20220207_165639 (1) (resized).jpg20220207_165832 (1) (resized).jpg20220207_165926 (1) (resized).jpg20220208_164406 (resized).jpg20220208_164425 (resized).jpg20220208_164431 (resized).jpg20220208_164445 (resized).jpg20220208_164515 (resized).jpgQuoted from radium:Interesting I am the same way. I have lots of hobbies (pinball, reef aquariums, jazz piano, etc) because I have to constantly be doing something.
I know it would be different if I wasn's such a selfish bastard for 40 years, and had a family, and less ex wives. No one told me that went you are in your 50's the only other single people are the other selfish assholes. Duh!
Yesterday I was organizing tax stuff and ran across an old notebook, figured no use wasting the couple left over blank pages. Inside was a pf inventory from 10/14. heres what I had of NOS and repro in stock at the time:
xenon nos
xenon cpr
AFM repro
F2k repro
8 ball nos
centaur repro
Rocky nos yep!
shadow
breakshot
charlies angels ss nos
De simpsons
strikes and spares nos
game show
Hot doggin nos
tommy
airborne
space station
world champ repro
team one
fire nos
Jackbot
taxi cpr
woz
sttng nos
evil Kenival nos
wild fyre
SW episode 1
dragon EM
contact
pinbot
preview
liberty belle
corvette
car hop
junk yard
Lights camera action
Golden eye
simpsons pin party
tron pro
acdc
csi
T3
twister
JP lost world
metallica pro
IJ4
piraqtes of the carrebean
ripleys
lotr
elvis
rollercoaster tycoon
spiderman
wheel of fortune
star trek pro.
Wowza
This weekend I was surprised with a gift of a couple BIG pieces of plexi to make some drill and dimple templates. So a big grateful thank you to mr dayhuff of B.C. for the donation. I have tried to use the thin stuff, and it will break while I am making the pattern. The 5/16 has been impossible to find.
right now i have 2 IPB TAF pfs and 1 IPB version. Both have a bunch of little things that have to be touched up. the IPB is much more work, because you can see places where they cut with an exacto and pasted on lines and parts. Besides the usual insert issues, there are lots of white lines in the center of black lines from where something was cut and pasted old school, by hand. The greed inserts are a good example.
first here is some CPR
20220208_164406 (1) (resized).jpg20220208_164425 (1) (resized).jpg20220208_164431 (1) (resized).jpg20220208_164445 (1) (resized).jpg20220208_164515 (1) (resized).jpg20220213_150344 (resized).jpgHere is the IPB. this has plenty o paint work, plus I dont think I got a pic but it just has an empty purple box where the upc was suppose to go. The cpr has the same box, but they put addams fam graphics in it. it should have been deleted
20220213_150400 (resized).jpg20220213_150410 (resized).jpg20220213_150433 (resized).jpg20220213_150444 (resized).jpg20220213_150459 (resized).jpg20220213_150521 (resized).jpg20220213_150549 (resized).jpg20220213_150608 (resized).jpg20220213_150615 (resized).jpg20220213_150641 (resized).jpg20220213_150732 (resized).jpg20220213_150818 (resized).jpgHere we have a pf and a game I love, CYCLONE. This is one of the original cpr repros. From what I remember that kev told me , they got a new insert vendor, and they didnt know they had to sand the edges of the inserts, so later they popped out. Its just the clear ovals I believe. They are the only inserts that popped up on this. I own one and they popped up, but they took the art outside the yellow key lines on mine. Then I hit it with the compressor and it started messing up the clear. I still have the poor thing its a mess.
So this one, I just epoxied the inserts from behind, and I hand sanded around the inserts. I am just going to paint the black and yellow, and it should look good.
20220213_151038 (resized).jpg20220213_151055 (resized).jpg20220213_151104 (resized).jpgQuoted from kruzman:Here is the IPB. this has plenty o paint work, plus I dont think I got a pic but it just has an empty purple box where the upc was suppose to go. The cpr has the same box, but they put addams fam graphics in it. it should have been deleted
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I am not going to do anything about the wood grain showing thru in the area of "the power" just because painting that whole area of 3 colors of which 2 that dont cover. It will just have to be as is.
So here are a couple p[ics of a ww LE that I finished this fall, and then the last 3 pics are an LE I just bought. it looks like all of the holes and inserts are the same, but the shooter lane art is very diff as well as the colors!
does anyone know anything about this?
Any info would be helpful. I am trying to collect JJ and stern LE pfs, and i was told it was a LE. Did they change the art? that seems like an added expense.
20211022_171001 (resized).jpg20211022_171010 (resized).jpg20211022_171130 (resized).jpg20220217_131743 (resized).jpg20220217_131756 (resized).jpg20220217_131806 (resized).jpgNow I see the pic of gene Wilder in the center is completely different. does anyone have an LE that can confirm, the last 3 pics are an LE?
So I went to the IPDB and I see JJ uses the terms standard, LE and CE. I must have a LE which is what the seller advertised, but now I know I have to look for CE when it comes to JJ. Oh well not exactly what I wanted but its pretty cool.
Quoted from La4s:The playfield you cleared with the sprakles is a CE playfield. and the one in the last picture is an SE/LE playfield.
Thank you, are the standard and LE pfs the same?
1 week later
Quoted from Ballypalooza:Wellness check on Ron. Weather has been better lately so maybe he is sanding up a storm? Come in Ron…
Still above ground. I really appreciate the check in. I have to admit I often think about how long I will stink up the place before someone finds me. There has been many times when I went to the back 10, to cut fire wood with the chainsaw. I stopped and figured, I better get the phone incase you still have one arm, but there have been many times when I decided to purposely not take it.
Sanding is exactly what I have been doing. In the last 2 years the amount of and sanding I do on the edges of the holes, and dimples, and countersinks for the t nuts and pop bumper lugs has turned in to 40 min to an hour between each coat. I think its from 2 things that happened about 2 years back.
The first is mirco started doing the cnc cutting after the clear is done. this makes for a super sharp edge around all holes and edges. It not only asking for chipping, butI need to round it, so I can spray the clear over the edge, and on to the wood inside the hole. This makes for a anchor for the clear.
Also a couple years back adrianna (ex squirrel girlfriend) needed some money so I had her sanding for me. she absolutely hated it, but I kept telling her she was over doing it, and it was taking too long. Well I realized I should be so thorough, and it will definitely help the clear in the later years keep its perfect look, so I made it the norm.
Christina Anthony, the weather girl that I am crazy for (dont tell her) says the next 7 days are all going to be warm enough for spraying. I have about 7 pfs that are getting the last coat. off hand, bally stones (I didnt like the original last coat. sorry daane), nos scared stiff, nos demo man 1 and 2, simpsons, lotr, bally star trek, nos I500. Those NOS pfs are going to be amazing because I spaced the coats over 6 months. sanding them is a bitch because the clear is so hard! I cant wait to see them installed.
There is a mirco IJ that is ready for its last coat, but those mirco ij's have inserts that move around sometimes if I let them sit 5 weeks after a coat. so I need to let that one sit a while next to the furnace, and see how it cures out.
soon as those 4 NOS pfs are out, I am going to work on the nos TZ, who dunnit, sttng (which I just dimpled) and champ pub that have been waiting patiently. I have been trying to find a used or dimpled who dunnit, and champ pub to make a template for, but still nothing.
I am seriously appreciative of the customers who have great patience. the longer it takes me, the better the clear, and more resilient to ball dimples.
I am preparing for my anual tax bill, so if you think you are going to need a pf soon, now is the time to make a deal with me. Most of my pfs are on my website, run by mr Skinner (teacher, husband, wrestling coach, web master and all around good fella) and its located at
pinballplayfieldskruzman.com
a couple that are not listed are
repro TAF that I am clearing now
eldorado repro
Flash gordon
wizard nos and repro
sing along repro
alice cooper cleared by me
The rest are on the website. I am always interested in trades, especially trading a pf for a clearcoat, but I havent met a pf I didnt want. I would really like a NOS Star Race!!! for my game.
Thanks for all of the support. I will make sure to get pics as the pfs get finished in the next 2 weeks!
20220223_144549 (resized).jpgQuoted from CrabbyPatty:So I could not find a better place to ask this question, does anyone know the best way to fix this small clear coat crack?
[quoted image]
My suggestion is free, but my pf install kit is necessary which cost 95$ shipped.
Most of the time, the glue I use in my kit is thin enough that it wicks in to cracks. if its an issue where you can use gravity, it works even better. But I would take one of the needles, and turn it so the hole is toward the crack, and often when you inject a little glue at the spot where the crack starts, it will wick in if you or a helper uses their thumb to press down on the pf where you want the glue to go. kind of giving it CPR on the area you want the glue to travel. also the second the glue hits that wood its going to immediately soak right in. (you only get one chance with the wood because one you apply the glue it will no longer be porous and want to pull in glue. If the crack doesn't get fixed at least the glue will lock down any chance of that area lifting up any more.
If you do order a kit from me, be sure to remind me who you are, and I will get you a needle/applicator that is smaller gauge that I usually use (just to be precise). This situation is a great example why its good to have the kit in your tool box. At least 5 times a year, a repro pf will get banged on a corner, either by me, someone, or shipping. often the place of impact will have a spot, half the size of a pinky nail that is cracked, or lifted or both, and i have fixed so many of these little issues to totally disappear. If I can make gravity work for me, I always do, and sometimes I will wait till I get a visitor to help me give it cpr. other times I will crank my clamp on the area, and then as I apply the glue, I release the clamp, which draws in the glue.
If you have a laminate issue or de-lam. here is what I do using the parts in the install kit.
I water down some gorrilla wood glue. I take the needle off the barrel, and suck up the glue. then I inject it under and in-between the ply's that have delaminated, and then I clamp, and wipe. The thinned out super glue is not as effective as wood glue, if there is no clear involved. remember, my glue in the kit is acid, and thats how it bonds. wood glue soaks in to the wood pores to grab and then holds them together.
Back to the pic above, since the pof is installed and you cant use gravity, the best you can do is the CPR method as you drip the glue right at the spot you think it will get into the clear. But remember, you get one shot. then the glue melts the clear and seals up the hole most of the time.
Its hard to explain. I remember in college I had a class that had us write instructions, and its not easy,. especially since this is not a part 1 screws to part2 situation. This is more hillbilly engineering.
If anyone has another suggestion, please feel free to share. I have a friend names chris who often blows my mind with his, (what I call hillbilly or ghetto engineering). Several times he offered solutions that I never thought of, and they worked.
Quoted from CrabbyPatty:Looks like I posted my question in the right spot after all! That actually answers all follows up questions as well. I have the 95 dollar kit you mentioned, it is very nice, helped me a lot to identify what bits work for what. So I thought that solution would probably work. I just wasn't 100% ya know. I will draft my wife's hands in to help get it done right. First test on that kicker arm caused that damage... Anyways, much appreciated!!
Ahh! so it was the kicker arm that did that. I am glad you said so.
NOTICE: keep in mind your sling shots, and the travel of the kicker. the dimples are not always right. They are only a starting spot!
Quoted from mollyspub:Any hope in repairing this?
[quoted image]
So I haven't mentioned this in a long time, but on my clear coats or any pf, I recommend mylar patches where the ball falls down on to the pf. No matter how good my work is, if that ball bounces off that spot enough times, its going to show. I used to sell the removable mylar, but I cant find it any more. anyway my point is not to use that. use the nice thick stuff. I bought a sheet that has a bunch of shapes cut out.
AS for the BSD damage, I would bet the glue/needle would make it more than 50% better (it wont make it worse), as well as stop it from getting worse. after, please drop a mylar patch on there. The best one would be that patch made to straddle the roll over wire switch.
Try to get the glue to hit at a likely point of entry. when it works it happens in 2 sec, so almost immediately wipe off the excess with finger thoroughly. if you make a mess, carefully use acetone as soon as possible. That is going to strip all wax, so a shot of meguires quick wax after that.
Quoted from dmacy:Rons kits are the tits!
This will be on the new kruzman p[layfields t shirts!!!
Quoted from dmacy:Hopefully in that area lol! I’m sure all the wives and girlfriends will get into it lol.
Yea I was kidding. I am always putting my foot in my mouth in regular life, often enough to constantly piss people off. No use pouring gas on that fire. Plus I would want people to wear them. Like Dave was saying if you girl or wife does the laundry one day, oops its missing. Not sure what happened to it. sorry.
I sanded all week and I have the following pfs all block sanded. They have to get polished, and cleaned which dayes a work day each.
KISS stern LE
simpsons pin party
Bally Star Trek (cpr repro)
so if you own one of these, please drop me a line when you get a chance
also the following are just waiting a couple more days for the last coat to cure before block sanding. so these will be done one at a time starting in about 7 days
scared stiff nos
indy 500 nos
demo man nos 1
demo man nos 2
Bally stones repro
Paragon NOS
feel free to check in with me if you are the owners of these, and we cant get the payment part done, so they can get shipped asap
Thanks for the patience thru this weird winter
I got a couple completed pfs to show. This is a kiss LE
20220311_131359 (resized).jpg20220311_131418 (resized).jpg20220311_131437 (resized).jpg20220311_131449 (resized).jpg20220311_131504 (resized).jpg20220311_131607 (resized).jpg20220311_131622 (resized).jpg20220311_131632 (resized).jpg20220311_131642 (resized).jpg20220311_131654 (resized).jpg20220311_131742 (resized).jpg20220311_132214 (resized).jpg20220311_133314 (resized).jpgQuoted from cartert:Hey Ron, remember this?
[quoted image]
I didnt know you had that. how ya been?!
I have had 3 different simpsons pin party games in my day, and I still never got good at that game. it has such a stupid flow, I just cant get the groove. I never even got to the part where the flippers are reversed. Its one of the coolest looking games for sure. I wish they would have put better art in to the family guy pin. I paid 4400 still in box, delivered to my house for that game when it came out. Of course it didnt play out of the box and I had to wait for parts for a week.
Quoted from rockwell:Looking awesome, Ron. Can't wait until my PFs are on the sanding block!
please remind me which titles?
I am getting old
Here is something I dont share often: a lesson learned the hard way. If I am going to replace some worn away wood, I file it out, and then drill lots of holes. then the patch material has something to grab on to. I have had them pop off before doing this, and that is no good. in the last pic you will see that I am building up thin coats rather than one thick coat.
Also The green triangle insert had ghosting I couldnt fix with the kit. The inserts associated with that one had just slight ghosting I was able to fix and lock down with the Kruzman pf install kit. So when removing the insert with a lot of ghosting, I broke it, so I replaced it. This is a used I500 pf
20220314_152508 (resized).jpg20220314_160827 (resized).jpg20220314_160832 (resized).jpg20220314_162130 (resized).jpg20220314_162136 (resized).jpgQuoted from mollyspub:Thanks for posting but what material do you use to fill / repair the saucer and turbo lock?
3m makes a body filler, and then there is a lighter material to do your last coat, fill the air holes, and feather the edges so it sands right to the surface, and you cant see it.
That crap is not made to have steal balls dropped on to it. JB Weld is the best by far. I used expensive body filler for a couple years. another mistake to be learned from.
If I would have known that drilling the little holes, and then using JB weld was the only way to get a patch to stay permanently back in the beginning, it would have been so nice. It all happened from trial and error. Then communication without freaking out on the customer and saying "well its better than the original pf you used to have in there!" and getting all defensive and denying everything.
There is another time that I found out the hard way, from a customer that the black paint I was using, will not work with the clear I was using. I am currently fixing that pf right now. crap happens and all I can do is my best, as well as learn from the mistakes, and evolve the process. Its 14 years now!! Since there is no real market for restoring pfs, there are no products made especially for that task. Its constantly trying new materials and technique. They dont make products made especially for painting keylines on a used diamond plate or other finish, wood pf, and then covering with a protective spray, and then beating it senseless with a 2 or 3 ounce steel ball
Lastly from my years as a finish carpenter, and all of the other trades I have worked with, the best way, is rarely or never the easy way. In almost every situation the more prep and elbo grease you put in, as well as the more experience you have, always makes for a better final product.
I know someone who paid over a grand for his speaker wires. Just 2 wires, 10 ft each. That wire was so superior that a musical ear could easily hear the difference between it and cheap regular speaker wire. The connections are hand soldiered, with silver soldier. The copper is made from a long process of purifying the material and extruding it in a way that is best for its job. Its just a matter of the best materials, along with human craftsmanship. no robots or temp employees involved.
There is a theory that on the graph you look at quality and cost, when you start getting to the far end of the quality line, the costs start going up way more per unit of measure than they did in the beginning of the line. Where each upgrade (per unit of measure) in quality is even more expensive, than the one that proceeded it. I forget the title, and I may have trashed trying to explaining it, but I learned this more than 30 years ago in econ 210.
By the way the speaker wires are made in america by a company called nordost, and I love them.
Quoted from Tsskinne:And thankfully Ron shares his knowledge! See you in a few hours man, I’ve got something in the car for you!
Yea!! hookers or drugs?
So I went and supported one well brewery in kalamazoo with tommy skinner. They have about 50 pins. Tommy also have games on route, so he knows all of the newer games. Its been so long since I totally fell for a game. I think metallica was the last one, until godzilla. what a great game.
To me ( person who cant afford todays 8 grand games) all of the new stern games look exactly the same with different titles or bands. Godzilla really looks and plays different, and still has great flow. Then the rules which are imaginative (yes imaginative I haven't used that term describing a game in a long time) fun and deep, seem different also. Lucky for me I was with someone who has played it since he owns one. The display work is better than any other game I have played. there were all of the original monsters I grew up with plus a couple extras I have never seen. I couldn't really hear any sounds or call outs because of being on location, but I did recognize they paid for a Blue oyster cult song. Plus the way I understood it, is you are playing as godzilla, fighting the other monsters, with some allies like mothera. such a cool game.
So I have to start saving every penny, and sell some games and pfs, and get me a godzillia fer sure.
I told scruffy that he should post on my thread that he was looking for a dolly. If it is a pf I dont have fpor sale, this is a good place to post that you are looking for a title.
Ha. Look down at the floor in that last pic and there is the lock insert graphics from earlier in the week
I picked up 2 different fathom repros this week along with
TAF cpr repro
wizard cpr repro
wizard NOS
Eldorado repro
sing along repro
So I would like to find out which version of inserts is preferred, and by how much, so please vote by posting which you like. The pics look like crap because the sun is rising in the east window, so its too bright to put them in that window, so I have them in the north, not as much light behind, and the front is being blasted. so try to imagine LED lights in the inserts, in the darkness of the game. One is a Halifax repro (early cpr) and the starburst insert version is a late model cpr. One of the problems with the Halifax versions was the inserts were not centered and you have crescent moons on almost every insert. I bet I have done over 25 of them. if you just fill in the crescent, it makes the round key line no longer round, so I have to draw in a smaller inner circle as the inside of the black key line, making it thicker. Its a buttload of work.
This is an example that illustrates my age, and how I no longer say never, and dont think so much along the lines of black and white, right or wrong. There are always at least a little shading of gray in there. I am a purist, but its mostly because of the quality, and collectability of NOS. On my bikes, hot rods, and anything else I restore or collect, I do like very subtle tweeks. Most of the time they are a mod that enhances performance, with out being obvious. So the starburst inserts appeal to me, and I also love to brighten the inserts with strong deep led lights, but then use regular or regular looking lights on the pf GI.
I always take the badges of the motor size off my cars. There is no use letting the dip shit punk making an ass of him self at a red light. If his music is to loud to hear the cam, and the big block, no use telling him ahead of time, that there is no chance.
So please vote for which inserts you prefer.
20220320_103918 (resized).jpg20220320_103933 (resized).jpg20220320_103950 (resized).jpg20220320_103951 (resized).jpgI had one eldorado before yours. The one in the pics is mine. I think I told you I have a beautiful eldorado city of gold. Its gorgeous and I wanted it for like 8 years before i finally got one. After working on your pf, I want to get the EM version. I just sold one a couple years ago for 600 that played great. I all ready had an EM in the collection at the time, so my dumb ass sold it because I needed the scratch, not knowing that pinball prices would go way more insane than the 10 years before.
so its 2 for starburst including me
Quoted from Ballypalooza:Don’t hate me. I’m gonna go with the smooth standard inserts. I love the color depth of those for sure. But the starbursts take attention away for the playfield art.
I totally respect that angle. Sitting against the wall I prefer the old shool, but installed... starburst!
Hum. 3 votes plus mine.
ok lets do it this way the halifax pf believes the election is rigged, unless he wins.
Lets see if that gets more people involved.
I figured it would be about 50/50 but I would like to get 25-30 votes to get a better idea.
Both are for sale
Interesting. I am getting the feeling from the people who vote original, that the starbursts are too noticeable. I can understand that. I dont agree that they go too far. I will say that the glitter version of the IJ pfs by mirco is the equivalent of lipstick and panties on a pig. Nothing subtle there.
I will try to remember to get some better pics
Thanks to everyone who has voted, if you haven't please do
I saw a nos close encounters pf on FB for sale today. Its being sold by shay, who does the best repro backglass. So if you are looking for a nos close encounters....
Now I remember why I dont do restorations any more. It takes me forever. here is some pics of the stuff that needs to be painted, plus all of the insert key lines need to be painted (thats a given from the hairline cracks). Today is my third day painting, and it should be done. Hopefully the decal Daane made for me looks good. Turns out all of the wood color has to be triple coated. Last night I quit while trying to match the green. On this individual pf the green didnt screen very well and you can see the white under it, so I may have to paint all of the green in that lane to make it look right
20220323_132238 (resized).jpg20220323_132245 (resized).jpg20220323_132250 (resized).jpg20220323_132255 (resized).jpg20220323_132304 (resized).jpg20220323_132309 (resized).jpg20220323_132315 (resized).jpg20220323_145559 (resized).jpg20220323_145605 (resized).jpg20220323_145611 (resized).jpg20220323_145617 (resized).jpgQuoted from greatwichjohn:Hoping Ron might make it to the Pintastic Show the end of June. It will be the only show that I will be having a booth, or going to this year. Promoting EZ Pinball, & their classic Stern cabinets. I will be taking a skid of 5 back to Canada, & that will be my focus in the years to come. Building new games in my retirement, nice to have a pension!
I would sure like to make that show, but the week of may 20, I am going to a pearl Jam show in las vegas, and i am trying to find an RV to rent. I have been waiting to see them again for a couple of years. Concerts are so unbelievably expensive now. well actually like pins! I thought I was going to get a godzilla, but so far I seriously doubt it, as I want a premium and there is no way I can spend 10 grand on a pin. I just dont make that kind of money.
But back to the pin world. John Greatwich has made a lot of beautiful repro pfs (many owned or cleared by me) and his work is very good. So I am very confident his games will be just as high quality or better!
Quoted from JLay:Hey Ron - starting to the the swap on that Fish Tales. Have a few questions before I dive in…
What is you opinion on a thin washer under the plastic star posts and some other posts? I didn’t use them on my stars with Stock CPR clear and the clear definitely bulged around them. Any advice on how tight to install all the posts that sit directly on clear? Will be using your kit to clean the holes before screwing in for sure.
There are two little rolled pins in the holes that help you align the flippers, they aren’t proud. Are those critical or serve a purpose? Other pins I have just have a little hole there.
No Mylar is needed right? Assume a coat of wax before populating is suggested?
I’m sure more will come up… thanks!
On my clear, I like to see mylar patches on anywhere the ball drops on to the pf, like a wireform ball return that drops it in the save lane, by the flippers. They make a sheet of mylar shapes and just a patch under so the ball hits it.
Also on my clear I suggest buying some meguires spray quick wax. Only wipe my clear with clean micro fiber towels, so for each game I keep 2 in a zip loc bag in the cab. I spray on the wax, on the ramps and pf, doing one area art a time. I use the first towel to move it around so it gets evenly applied,, then the second towel to buff it out, also metal wireform ramps, love that wax, it keeps the dust from settling on them, and makes the balls go easier up ramps.
I have never used the washers under posts, though I may consider it under metal posts one day. Its very very very important not to over tighten. I dont even tighten at all until the job is done, and I replace every nut with nylon lock nuts so you dont have to over tighten. The people to ask or chime in if reading this would be dave macy, daane DJ Blow, tommy skinner, ken white. these guys have installed more of my pfs that I have.so if you guys read this please drop us some of your experience.
Use your install kit bits to remove the clear in the t nut holes on the front, and install the t nuts on the bench not the roticery. thatway you can wack once or twice with the hammer. I also remove the clear under the pop bumper lug/nails. if they have the fin, make sure that fin doesnt hit the clear when getting pounded in, it will crack clear. I only use the nails with the collar of spikes, and I predrill with 2 different sized drill bits, because the collar is thicker than the nail screw
I
Quoted from Tophervette:The Cheapest nose bleed seat is $736.00, with average seats going for thousands. That is just insane. Good luck with that.
I pay 40 bucks a year to be in the 10 club, so I can get vinyl releases of the pj stuff, plus they sell a fantastically engineered recording of every show. I have over 120 shows on dvd, and 8 on the special vault releases. anyway the best part is fanclub people get to get tickets before they go on sale. It was a lottery so my partner and I both went for 2 tics and we both got 2. the fan club has a way to sell my extra tics at face value only. PJ doesnt fuck around when it comes to tickets, plus they negotiate with ticketbastard on the fee, so it was much less than all other bands.
The reason I am spending what is a buttload to me is because my contemporaries are dropping like flies. PJ has stayed together all of this time as a working band, and their music is every bit as good as it was 20 years ago. the shows sound better, they have an amazing sound system, and they are all still alive. I dont want to jinx anything, but one of them is going to get sick soon, I am sure, so to me I feel like this may me my last chance to see a show. If you dont know, PJ writes the set list before each show, and since their catelogue is so big, every single show is so different. This weekend taylor of the foo fighters passed away, and these guys are still alive but some spent many years hooked on drugs or drink (like myself) and we dont seem to last too long after the 50. Hopefully I am totally wrong, because pJ and ed really show, better than anyone, how to age with grace and dignity. yes they play songs they wrote 25 years ago, since they are still relevant and the fans want it, but some shows are 75% songs from yield and after. I have never liked the first album and I thought when pj came out, I thought this is way too perfect. this is a corporate bunch of pretty boys giving gen x wannabees what they want to hear. Once no code came out while I was in a 21 day detox, and that album turned me in to a pj fan with over 30 shows under my belt. I saw their first tour in 91 or 92 with RHCP and smashing pumpkins and hated it.
The only negative thing about a pj live show, and it has happened at other bands also, is the dam crowd sings so fricking loud I cant enjoy what I paid to hear.
So I am looking for an RV to rent for a week, and really hope I can do it big for once.
After some paliminary research on a godzilla prem, with the wait over a year, and used games selling for over 10 grand, there is no way I can get one. My sister offered to lend me the 8500 on a 2 year installment loan, which I was going to do, but over 10 grand I cant. My car and truck combined are worth about 10 grand. I just cant afford that kind of thing any more, so I am going to call the PJ show my first vacation since central america during Y2k (other that a couple road trips to shows)
Quoted from JLay:Great - thanks for the info! I will be sure to post some pictures here of the swap and anything I learn along the way that might help people out.
Is Blitz 1 Grand wax OK? It's what I use for my other machines...
Just had to make the first cut, there’s no turning back now…
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That pf and game is so beautiful. Please make sure to grind out the clear all the way to the wood on those t nuts. I like to do them on the bench so there is support under it, when I wack the t nut. also I use a large philips head screwdriver in the center of the t nuy and I hit that, to keep the hammer away from the surface
Quoted from JLay:Great - thanks for the info! I will be sure to post some pictures here of the swap and anything I learn along the way that might help people out.
Is Blitz 1 Grand wax OK? It's what I use for my other machines...
Just had to make the first cut, there’s no turning back now…
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Great job on removing the clear. I didnt see that pic. looks great
Quoted from kruzman:I
I pay 40 bucks a year to be in the 10 club, so I can get vinyl releases of the pj stuff, plus they sell a fantastically engineered recording of every show. I have over 120 shows on dvd, and 8 on the special vault releases. anyway the best part is fanclub people get to get tickets before they go on sale. It was a lottery so my partner and I both went for 2 tics and we both got 2. the fan club has a way to sell my extra tics at face value only. PJ doesnt fuck around when it comes to tickets, plus they negotiate with ticketbastard on the fee, so it was much less than all other bands.
The reason I am spending what is a buttload to me is because my contemporaries are dropping like flies. PJ has stayed together all of this time as a working band, and their music is every bit as good as it was 20 years ago. the shows sound better, they have an amazing sound system, and they are all still alive. I dont want to jinx anything, but one of them is going to get sick soon, I am sure, so to me I feel like this may me my last chance to see a show. If you dont know, PJ writes the set list before each show, and since their catelogue is so big, every single show is so different. This weekend taylor of the foo fighters passed away, and these guys are still alive but some spent many years hooked on drugs or drink (like myself) and we dont seem to last too long after the 50. Hopefully I am totally wrong, because pJ and ed really show, better than anyone, how to age with grace and dignity. yes they play songs they wrote 25 years ago, since they are still relevant and the fans want it, but some shows are 75% songs from yield and after. I have never liked the first album and I thought when pj came out, I thought this is way too perfect. this is a corporate bunch of pretty boys giving gen x wannabees what they want to hear. Once no code came out while I was in a 21 day detox, and that album turned me in to a pj fan with over 30 shows under my belt. I saw their first tour in 91 or 92 with RHCP and smashing pumpkins and hated it.
The only negative thing about a pj live show, and it has happened at other bands also, is the dam crowd sings so fricking loud I cant enjoy what I paid to hear.
So I am looking for an RV to rent for a week, and really hope I can do it big for once.
After some paliminary research on a godzilla prem, with the wait over a year, and used games selling for over 10 grand, there is no way I can get one. My sister offered to lend me the 8500 on a 2 year installment loan, which I was going to do, but over 10 grand I cant. My car and truck combined are worth about 10 grand. I just cant afford that kind of thing any more, so I am going to call the PJ show my first vacation since central america during Y2k (other that a couple road trips to shows)
sorry not DVD duh. on cd
what I like about meguires quick wax is it has no cleaner, no abrasive. its just silicone. so if you have ball trails you remove them first. Now since the quick wax is wet, it will take off surface dirt, but not ground in crap. In that case use a cleaner/wax, then quick wax to maintain every month or 2.
They call products with abrasive and chemical cleaners wax as well as stuff like quick wax which is just a protective layer, so you need to read your bottles.
I am still in the house because I was cleaning the wax and compound out of all of the little holes of NOS Scared Stiff and NOS Indy 500. Before I take pics, I have to just do a quick coat of quick wax to make the surface free of all of the smudges I made cleaning all of the holes with a wet shredded up towel. so watch for those later. Both are amazing, I am soooo happy with them!
This week I am going to sand NOS paragon and Bally Rolling Stones, and then polish them out. It takes almost a day to block sand a pf, and almost a day to polish (if there are no issues. I cant see many of them until in the final fine polish), then a good hour to clean all of the holes of compound by threading a shredded rag thru the holes and pulling it thru several times.
That has a better final look than pounding them for sure. I have heard of it, but never tried, I will do it that way from now on!
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:Enjoy the PJ show, Ron. I'm married to a PJ nut and man oh man. If anyone thinks of PJ as some old 90s band way past their prime and heyday - someone forgot to tell the bajillion people that come out to every show. As every tour gets announced it's a quick check to see how close they get to us, check to see if they're hitting a city near enough to fly to, etc etc. And then the ticket lottery itself. Poor lady. Glad I tend to like bands I can just go watch at a local club, but it really is a pretty damn good time. Even without caring so much about the songs themselves, they're great watch live. McCready and Cameron are just amazing to watch play.
Never been to Wrigley to see the Cubs, but have seen PJ there three times now and it's honestly just a blast and a half.
I got to see the soldier field show, it was in 94 or 95, right after the last dead show that I got to see also. and if I could go back in time to find a way to see the wrigley shows, I would.
Ball dimpling is also dimples, but a dimpled pf is one that has been drilled with guild holes where the screws are aprox located. Many NOS pfs didnt get dimpled because they did the dimpling later down the production line. as for stern, they didnt dimple until they were ready to assemble the pf.
I offer dimpling service, where I make a template from a dimpled pf and then drill the undimpled pf. its 300$
Here is some pf porn. sorry if I got a little carried away with the reflection. I made sure to shoot the whole thing with no reflections also. I am very happy proud of these 2. Both took a lot of paint and both got drilled and dimpled. The customers were fantastic with their patience. For that they get a harder, better clear. The scared stiff needed the area in front of the crate painted because you could see the outline of the sensor underneith. Plus all of the mode inserts had cracks going thru the art from the edges of the inserts, including the center star/sun. The only inserts I didnt paint are the couple of jackpot inserts. There is a crack around them in the yellow, and I have found in the past it requires a triple coat to cover the yellow, and the crack comes back relatively fast. Its very hard to get yellow to cover.
On the Indy 500, I was really happy to work with the owner because his wife grew up like a mile from the track, and it was a big part of her childhood. Plus i have always wanted the game. I like how fast it plays, and my goal is to make it faster with a perfect surface. I love the colors. I had to paint all of the red. I painted the whole arch because of the 2 inserts at each end of it were a little uneven, and had cracks on the indy cars front ends and tires, plus there was a spot at the top of the arch that bothered me. Same issue with the inserts and cars on the 2 inside red lanes, the front of the cars are disected by the insert line going thru the front end of the car. Just like 95% of the nos pfs of this age, all of the inserts had a crack around them that should be painted.
20220328_162229 (resized).jpg20220328_162241 (resized).jpg20220328_162245 (resized).jpg20220328_162250 (resized).jpg20220328_162255 (resized).jpg20220328_162308 (resized).jpg20220328_162413 (resized).jpg20220328_162430 (resized).jpg20220328_162439 (resized).jpg20220328_162458 (resized).jpg20220328_162519 (resized).jpg20220328_162539 (resized).jpg20220328_162611 (resized).jpg20220328_162629 (resized).jpgAgain sorry for all of the reflection pics, I got carried away because they looks so good.
20220328_164403 (resized).jpg20220328_164416 (resized).jpg20220328_164425 (resized).jpg20220328_164431 (resized).jpg20220328_164441(0) (resized).jpg20220328_164455 (resized).jpg20220328_164617 (resized).jpg20220328_164626 (resized).jpg20220328_164646 (resized).jpg20220328_164725 (resized).jpg20220328_164752 (resized).jpg20220328_164806 (resized).jpg20220328_164831 (resized).jpg20220328_164910 (resized).jpgQuoted from Tophervette:Elvira would be proud of your work on Scared Stiff. I play it quite often at our local arcade. Still a big fan of hers.
I am a huge fan of elviria. I dont know if it was her idea or some studio executive. Make a living pin up girl, but actually make her still sexy but the opposite of the sweet girl next door. She is like the alternative pin up, before alternative became popular in the 90's. Legs and boobs on a dominate MILF woman... sign me up!!!!
Its no wonder I cant keep a woman around here long
Quoted from mollyspub:Your right. Indy500 is a great and fast game!
Whom ever is the owner of the playfield is really lucky to have it in their game!
Also difficult as heck!
I wanted to remind people that I will take repro and NOS pfs as/toward payment.
I am looking for stern pfs now days. a lot of people get a spare from complaining that the one in their new game is flawed. I think you are better getting it out in the playing world rather than having it hanging. plus less cash you have to pay me when I finish your clear.
Also a big thank you to everyone who supports me (in all ways) Its necessary, and I really appreciate it!!!
A good customer/friend is looking for a nos granny and the gators, or possibly one that can be restored fairly easy. Figured this would be a good place to start networking.
Quoted from radium:I've had really good results posting in the "looking for playfields thread", might have some folks there that don't check this one:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nos-playfields-you-havent-seen-and-i-havent-seen
Thank you didnt know it exists.
I have found that when I leave my little bubble here at this thread, Like I did today, and I see people selling godzilla prem for 13k firm, I get really p[issed and dont want to work for the pimps, but I dont know who they are, and they are mostly in to new games anyway. I just dont like the fact that I cant afford the games I work on.
So I stay in my bubble, but I will check when I am in a good mood.
Thank you, rk
Quoted from JLay:How does your clear process differ from HEP? I follow his threads and often see that his clear process is pretty fast and he installs not too long after it’s done. Is he able to achieve the same durability that yours are known for? Given what people pay for his games I’d sure hope so…
Game prices are stupid these days for sure and unfortunately some people are paying them. I’ll leave the newer sterns for bar play and keep tinkering with my old Williams and classic sterns at home…
I cant speak for chris, but his clear is he sprays 2 or 3 coats. I saw on his thread that he said that the clear makers suggest 2-3 coats, and ferarris get 2-3 coats. Chris doesnt want to install my pfs any more because my clear is thick and you have to remove the clear in a spot before drilling or you will make little cracks (or chips).
He has his process and he is used to drilling and screwing in to the clear. My clear is thick enough that the threads are just going to break the clear.
So there is more than one way to skin a cat. he has been at it almost twice as long as me, and he has a lot of fans. I just offer a different product.
If I were a better business man I would do this kind of work at night after work, but once I fionish polishing something that looks this good, I want to show it off and get the owner all excited.
This is NOS DM 1 owned by rick burnham. (see I know who owns a couple of the pfs)
This is the pf that required a lot of paint work. The Finish was just a temp light coat, and it had not gone to diamond plate yet, like several of the pfs from this batch. So when I started sanding it, i chewed right in to the paint on the far edges and any larger inserts. I only charge for about half the labor when I do that. Everything came out good, and the finish came out awesome. I also drilled and dimpled it. I would kill to have this in a game!!!!!!
20220401_163131 (resized).jpg20220401_163151 (resized).jpg20220401_163157 (resized).jpg20220401_163204 (resized).jpg20220401_163210 (resized).jpg20220401_163301 (resized).jpg20220401_163313 (resized).jpg20220401_163348 (resized).jpg20220401_163419 (resized).jpg20220401_163426 (resized).jpg20220401_163551 (resized).jpg20220401_163659 (resized).jpg20220401_163744 (resized).jpgI just started the final block sand on a NOS PARAGON. except one little dust nug, it doesnt need tio be sanded its so nice, but it will look even better. I just tested the 4 star roll overs and 2 of them needed to be adjusted.
I always test the star roll overs before anything leaves, but the tool I use to clear them out is in the install kit if you buy a cpr repro and the white star wont fit in there.
Quoted from Manny65:Ooohhh show us pics of the NOS Paragon - looking forward to seeing the trees and sky reflecting off an absolutely gorgeous PF
I am almost done block sanding. I do 2000 and 3000 wet, then polish, and clean.
Today my sister kris is coming over to go to one well brewery to drop some quarters in the games, so I hope to get the polish done this sunday, then clean and wax for pics monday. Unless the power goes out for 26 hours again. These storms are insane, and the south is getting it much worse than us.
Quoted from pinster68:…Just squeaked with excitement, sitting here with my wife having morning coffee. Trying to convey the great news to her that the Paragon is nearing completion. She does her best to show interest … I’m thrilled. Thanks for the update Ron!
I always feel good and excited when a NOS paragon comes out this good, but then the buzz kill every time is building a crate for it. I usually make wide and regular crates, but paragon is super wide. I got to play one of my paragons installed, and its amazing how it speeds up the game, and makes it so much harder
I wish I could put a note on the pfs that says if the owner of this game passes away, I am sorry for your loss, but please contact ron kruzman, so this game can go home.
Problem is our wives, and in my case sister, would never find it.
Quoted from underlord:Damn Ron! I’m jealous. Hope mine comes out as perfect.
—Rick Burnham.
The demo man look so good, I wanted that pf the whole time I worked on it, and I have been watching for a game to come up for sale locally I love the art style, plus the smooth ball play. I got you crated and ready to go to fed ex.
I am heading out to work on the paragon after emails. I am late because I watch meet the press every sunday till 10. I would kick my own old ass if I were a young man and I heard my self say that.
Your work is looking fantastic. Please continue to take your time, stay focused. last weekend I took my sister Kris and her son kyle to One well brewery in kalamazoo to spend some more quarters.
I turned her on to FT and she really liked the flow, but we were down to our last quarters, and only played a couple games, but that was a rare game she beat me on. It was set up so the the 2 far right shot and lane were really hard to get off the flipper.
How much are FT's selling for now days? I dont think she will ever get rid of the party zone I got her (and mike schudel shopped and tuned) but maybe her ac/dc. Or maybe add a 3rd game.
Here are the long awaited pics of the NOS paragon. the inserts were super cupped, and I used layers of clear to fill them and sand, but that means the paint around the edges of the inserts is all sanded off.
The big PARAGON insert area and the insert area below it (except for the 1-10 inserts at the bottom which just needed the thin black ring painted) needed to be painted, so lots of black, brown and gold.
I always paint the in-line drops because the ink is never lined up with the holes, and it looks sloppy to me, so I make it solid black, and the 3 inserts above it always need to be leveled and painted in.
One of the tabs on one of the star roll-overs broke off when removing the knock out. So I had to remove the whole insert and lucky for me I bought an extra last time I did a paragon.
I also glued/epoxied the inserts from behind and painted the back with 2 coats of oil gloss gray paint.
One of the hard parts with these paragons is there are a lot of inserts and none are centered with the print. So for about 80% of them, I had to draw the inside as well as the outside lines for the key lines around them.
Paragon is so wide, its beyond a wide body. My ship crates are usually 23 in wide. Paragon needs a crate with a 31.5 outside measurement. When I went to lowes yesterday, the wood prices were higher than they were any time I have been in there. A 1x6x6 of palette quality total crap wood was 12 bucks!!!!Now I just remembered the tornados in the south. I cant imagine how much it would cost to do a big project. In the summer of 2020 roof deck OSB was almost 38 sheets delivered and I bought 122 sheets! Oh that sucked. so for the paragon crate I am experimenting with butt jointing 2 pieces of scrap plywood and glue a 9 in strip over the seam. screw it all tight to the work table, then remove the screws after it dries. we shall see. I make one last night, and will test it today. It took a bunch of time, but just to save on the cash flow.
20220404_174952 (resized).jpg20220404_175020 (resized).jpg20220404_175035 (resized).jpg20220404_175053 (resized).jpg20220404_175104 (resized).jpg20220404_175129 (resized).jpg20220404_175140 (resized).jpg20220404_175201 (resized).jpg20220404_175212 (resized).jpgQuoted from JLay:Slowly working my way through the FT swap. Going smoothly so far, taking my time as not to blow a hole thru the PF. Everything is getting cleaned and tumbled down to the screws. Wiring harness is fresh out of the dishwasher.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Are you going to make it so you can disconnect your assemblies with a plug rather than having to desoldier them? Life is so much easier to be able to unplug a couple wires and pull off an assembly and work on it at your bench
This is the ultimate pisser when this happens. Its 4.45 and I am in to the end of my second day sanding and polishing this nos DM. I only have one more hour left of polishing and cleaning out the holes, and I get it polished enough to see I have these microscopic holes in the surface that happen when you are building up clear like we do. Many times its from getting too close when spraying. its this section of just itti bitti pin holes in the surface, that look horrible because the white compound filled them and the rest of the surface looks like wet glass.
So I have to stop work. I can go back down to 500 grit and sand them out, but if i go deep enough to hit the second from last coat, you will be able to see the slightest variant line where i go thru to the coat under it. this is because I sand between coats, after letting them cure rather than spraying a coat on top of a almost dry coat. (which bites in to the not fully cured coat from before)
So I can either try to do that while keeping the surface perfect flat, which is about impossible, or...
I can clean all of the compound out of the dimples and the edges of the holes and cut outs, sand the whole surface and re coat, and then start the 2 day process again from the beginning, which is exactly what I will have to do. It sucks and kicks me right in the nuts. You cant see this stuff if I just sprayed and left it like all of the pf manufactures do, and most of the clear coat people, if not all. You can only see it if you make the rest of the pf so level and glossed out and polished. I am just bitchin. its better than digging ditches.
In the 3rd pic look at the 2 middle inserts for multi ball. if you blow it up on a good computer screen you can see some of them. since they are full of compound now, it makes them stand out. I know I have to look at it in the big pic of a month or a year, but its so hard to waste 2 days, when I could have done anything else wha. wha. wha.
I just wanted to post this because it happens on average 5 times a year. sometimes it will be 2 pfs in the same batch. so this is part of what you get when you pay the big bucks for me to do your pf. Going to have a cup of coffee and go back to it. I may just start polishing the rolling stones since I have it sanded all ready.
20220407_164554 (resized).jpg20220407_164608 (resized).jpg20220407_164631 (resized).jpg20220407_165145 (resized).jpgI took all of those pics at the same time, but the angle is only right in the 3rd pic to see the specks. Installed it wouldnt show, but thats not the standard I have been using. I have to make the pf stand on its own.
So friday, I knew I had to close early at 4. there was a customer coming down from canada to pick up 2 jobs, and i was going to a bar (to see a band) with a woman I used to work for 20 years ago who is super cool. So I wanted to do something I could finish and something that was rewarding after the day before's debachel. So rather than re-doing a pf that I all ready finished, I decided to polish out DJBlowes cpr, bally stones. It was the one that had the wood grain pop up so bad I had to sand the first coat with green mesh scratchey. I have to get the gloss down in the little valley's but if I used the sander I would have sanded off the top of the grain mountains. After I got it sanded down in all the valley's, I used a coat of clear to fill them, and then I hit it with the DA sanded and level the surface out.
Then the rotten star roll overs were 60% full of clear that was over a year old.
A couple months later, I let the last coat fully cure before sanding, and I let it sit a couple extra weeks and in that time the inserts moved around enough that they were sticking out. so rather than sanding it level and polishing it out, I checked with Daane, and I sanded it down and level and then laid 2 more coats. I waited another 4-6 weeks and the inserts didnt move and it was still flat, so I knew I was good. I didnt charge for the extra coats, but I had to for the time on those star roll overs. its easy to spend 3o-40 minutes on one.
I know it sucks to wait, but what I described about the inserts happens all of the time, and most of the time, if its fully cured and I level and spray 2 coats, then block sand and polish, we now have a finish that is going to stay like it is. wood tends to move a lot, especially when it is not installed, because its getting all kinds of different temps and humidities. once they are in the game and in position I notice they dont change much at all. This is one of the several reasons that if i clear one of my pfs that is for sale, its best to hold off on the last 2 coats until it gets sold. also I dont have to worry about it getting knocked over by a pooly trained 100 lb pit bull, while in storage here.
I got the pf cleaned, and I will take some pics today
Quoted from djblouw:Wow, I can’t wait to install this. It’s going to be so beautiful. Feel free to display it at PATZ if you’d like. Just don’t sell it!
And I’m happy to pay the extra for the cleaning of the Star rollovers. I still don’t know why CPR can’t find a way to not coat those with clear. It’s seems like such a simple fix.
They actually are doing something different with the star roll overs. they now have a plug they put in there (like I do), but on occasion they leave it in there. I was afraid when I tapped it out from behind, but it came out without issue.
Quoted from djblouw:Wow, I can’t wait to install this. It’s going to be so beautiful. Feel free to display it at PATZ if you’d like. Just don’t sell it!
And I’m happy to pay the extra for the cleaning of the Star rollovers. I still don’t know why CPR can’t find a way to not coat those with clear. It’s seems like such a simple fix.
So I have been working on these NOS pfs from last spring, 2 at a time. They take a lot of special care. I realized after I did a couple that since the guy who stashed them worked at linc smith, He kept the protos, and I realized that none of them had been diamond plated. so the first one, I just made all kinds of work for my self by sanding with the DA sander w 500 grit. wow, every insert and edge got taken down to the wood. Because they are old, once you sand them you see how much depth and texture the surface has. a lot of that could be the fact that they have no clear on them other than a thin coat to protect the ink. Besides the valleys of the wood grain, and around the inserts, there are just low spots in the wood all over the place. so they require a couple hours hand sanding, and its nerve wracking since its so easy to damage them.
Also I just finally got some plexi to make dimple templates with, donated by J dayhuff (thanks again).
So Thursday I pulled the STTNG and the TZ to start and dimple. Its very scary for me because I know that they are protos and i cant damage them, no mistakes, plus the owner of the TZ, begged borrowed and saved every cent that pf cost (and it was a lot), so that makes me nervous also.
But anyway the 2 NOS pfs on the bench now are those 2,and I will post some pics if I dont do damage or destroy one on accident.
I did the wood work on that used Indy I have. it turns out to be a lot more work than when I anticipated, buying it. In hindsight I would have never paid 500 shipped for it, but I thought it was basically paint the inserts and clear. Oh well. 'I installed a lock decal on the insert I had to replace (thank you for the help Daane) but I have not cleared it. It looks like it is going to be more bold that the 2 others near by, and I will have to deal with that, if so.
This week is tax week, so I dont know how much I will be getting done in the shop. sucks.
Quoted from CashMoney:Hey Ron, do you know anyone with an upper TSPP playfield? Been looking for one for about a year now with no luck… NOS or used doesn’t matter. Already have a NOS main playfield that I’d love you to work on.
I used to have a nos mini, but dont now, I will; look around the studio for used. I know I have used IJ and used FT both populated. I will check
coffee break. here are the bally rolling stones complete pics.
The spring sun is right above now rather than being far off, so I cant get the tree reflection as much any more.
When customers come to visit or pick up jobs the nice ones bring a gift. most of the time it good local meat, but this time local honey from canada!!! Its no secret that I have a mouth full of sweet toothes
20220410_142006 (resized).jpg20220410_142105 (resized).jpg20220410_142120 (resized).jpg20220410_142138 (resized).jpg20220410_142145 (resized).jpg20220410_142151 (resized).jpg20220410_142220 (resized).jpg20220410_142235 (resized).jpg20220410_142247 (resized).jpg20220410_142344 (resized).jpgHere is an email I just got, and I took out the personal names because I dont share emails but this is a great example of the kruzman pf install kit saving the day
We’ll just getting the playfield swapped and had a question for you. The star rollover doesn’t fit right. This results in the white “star” being very tight and certainly not actionable if the ball rolls over it. I tried the old star roll over as well and get the same thing.
What I am guess is that the star “receiver” in the playfield is not large enough thus cramping the actual white star roll over.
Question is what do I do? Don’t want to f up the playfield but would like this feature to work if possible
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
here is what I replied
If you got an install kit from me, use one of the thin bits that are specifically for this application. use the slow speed, and start in the center and draw back in each arm of the star. getting rid of the clear, then do a little off the top and bottom length of the arm of the star. if you bit gets clogged which it will use the stone I included.
I have to do this on evert CPR and mirco pf. both of them fill the star with clear so the white insert wont work. if you have to get out the insert that you got in there but its too tight to work, use wire cutters, and clip the nub at the bottom of the white star, and now you can use that one for testing, but you will need another.do not try to push back the insert part that holds the white star in it. you will break those tabs so easily!!!
Quoted from guitarded:That kit came in super handy when I did my Skateball Swap, Ron.
In addition to the above, I also used 220 Grit paper cut into strips and folded over thin carboard to get that last bit of clear out of the way in each star.
PITA, but eventually got them working smoothly. Just takes time and dogged determination to get there without destroying the insert or clear.
GREAT IDEA on the cutting 220 in to strips. so like 3/4 an inch wide? are you able to pull it thru the bottom, and use one hand above the pf and one below?
Quoted from guitarded:Exactly this. Folded over cardboard from as thin as a matchbook to as thick as will fit, as the situation requires.
And always pulling down from the top of the PF to the bottom when removing material...to keep from getting chips in that clear.
great idea when I need to just take off a little.
Thank you
I wanted to mention that I have a CPR TAF pf that I tweeked the paint around the inserts, sealed the back, and I have it all cleared except the final coat/sand/polish. Its available and will be ready for install when you receive it. $1900. Also I have the UPC sticker (uninstalled)
20220410_185025 (resized).jpg20220410_185050 (resized).jpgHere is demo Man 2.2 owned by seth kudrick.
This is the one that I finished once, and didnt like the little vapor pin holes. now its like its suppose to be.
sorry for the delay. I hope to get these shipped tomorrow
20220414_112246 (resized).jpg20220414_112251 (resized).jpg20220414_112256 (resized).jpg20220414_112300 (resized).jpg20220414_112306 (resized).jpg20220414_112320 (resized).jpgThe early day sun makes the photos no fun. I owuld wait till evening, but I wanna get this packed and out. No time for vanity
Quoted from underlord:Between the black nickel hardware, pile of nos stuff and restored cab, this’ll be one fine DM!
I didnt want to sound like a kid (putting a wing spoiler on a civic), but one of the first things I would do is dark nickel plate, and I know many people are not in to it but I think Plating the coin door makes it perfect!!
I play it on route often at one well brewery, but I cant hear the sounds. I realize they cant be great from the era it was made, but getting the sound right also! Oh, I like to spend the money!
Quoted from underlord:Pinsound board and pinwoofer speakers make it amazing.
After buying that set a couple of times, I kept the original speaker mounts, to copy to make more, when I want to just replace the speakers with some 50 dollar pioneers. since they are 2 sizes on one head, I buy 2 pr, and then I can do 2 games.
On a game like IJ I wanted their cross over and set up, and didnt mind paying. their system made that game sound totally different. I especially remember the gun shots sounded super cool!
On my stern games I run those polk PW10 subs which are amazing at a couple hundred, but I got them for less than 100 delivered. for those I soldier monster cable right at the tabs for the cab speaker, and drill a 3/8 hole in the bottom of the cab. Now that I dont have any music pins I gave it to my sis for her ac/dc.
Quoted from JLay:Some wiring porn from the bottom side of your favorite NOS Fish Tales. Slowly getting it back together!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Lovin it.
There are a lot of guys thinking about doing a first swap. Most are way over confident. If you run across little cheats or things to keep in mind or make the job easier or better, please feel free to share them.
Back when I did restorations I had a rule that I wouldnt let a customer depop a pf and send it to me to be restored and cleared, and then he will put it together after 4 or 6 months. Many people got nasty with me, of course if it was someone like brian kelly or D macy I would no problem, but I feel like I saved a lot of people from selling their games as basket cases. It happened to me. I stripped one and didnt get the pf done for about 1.5 years, and I didnt get far before I game up and sold it CHEAP. EATPM.
Quoted from guitarded:Here's a tip for the frst time swappers who aren't down for a full set of new lamps / rewire. I did this on my Skateball and it worked too well not to share.
Assuming a working machine as your staring point:
Remove and Label all Coils from the mechs.
Remove the Switches from the mechs, too and then Remove Mechs for rebuild and to locate and mark on the new PF..
Remove the main solder points for the Lighting GI/Control (Pops too) and Label them.
Remove all Harness Anchors and remove all Braid Staples.
Once everything is ready to lift free from the back of the PF. Take a section of Wire Fencing (I use 2" x 4" Box Fencing) and cut it to the size of a PF.
Lay the Fencing over the top of the wiring, pull the coils through the fencing (to keep the weight off the harness) and Zip / Twist Tie the ever loving shit outta the entire harness. You really can't use too many ties on your first go around. You can also pull switches through as needed to keep things clean.
Lift and transfer to the new PF. Locate all of your lamps and anchor points and land them right through the fencing. Clip the ties off as you go.
Real easy way to overcome the intimidation factor that comes with removing the entire harness / replacing all of the braid and lamps.
As for cleaning the harness. I usually do it on the old machine before I do the transfer. Just clip 3-4 Zip ties at a time and clean with rags then re-zip and move to the next section.
good stuff! thank you
Quoted from Manny65:According to https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vehicles_for_Moving_Pinball_Machines#GMC, "Terrain (2005+) - Will fit all standard and wide body pinball machines with back seat folded down"
FANTASTIC! thank you, I will forward this to him. he is a newbie and I actually went to elementary school w him. Thanks . ron
Who is going to Pin at the zoo this year. I usually go out for tacos after the show at a place by the compound. I am exactly 11 miles to the parking lot of the show.
If you are coming,, are you bringing a game? for sale?
Does anyone have any pfs they want to bring to sell to me? any sisters? ha.
Quoted from Tsskinne:I’ll see you there Ron!
yea! maybe get some tacos! is mike having people after?
Quoted from djblouw:Going to PATZ Fri & Sat. Going to bring Nine Ball, Hotdoggin, Kings of Steel, and 1934 Rockola Jigsaw. Will have one more in the trailer, but it's not mine, so not sure what game it is yet.
I just have junky pf's that have been pulled to put in a masterpiece that you worked on. As far as sisters, no, but how about a sister-in-law. But she's pregnant, so probably not what youre looking for...haha
hot doggin!? that was a great game. I dont remember who bought mine. thats one I would like to check out.
I can handle preg until the little rug ratt comes along. me and kids... we dont like each other. It always ends up in a stare down.
Quoted from pinster68:Pardon the childish jubilance…
IT’S HERE! IT’S HERE! THE KRUZMAN PARAGON IS HERE! [quoted image]
I used to have that same front door I think. mine was on a house that was built in about 1921, and it took 40 hours to strip the dam thing. they even painted the beveled glass, so I had to pull that, and strip inside the area it sat in. I loved the doorbell. so did the dam neighbor kids. I do not miss living in the ghetto.
Ill tall ya, those crates take me a whole weekend to make 15 of them, plus it takes an hour to pack them the first time, but they are so worth it as far as protecting the contents. so far in 13 years not one damaged pf. One had so much rain on it that they couldnt read the tag, so they sat it in the lost and found. I had to call every depot to try to find it. I did only because it looks so different. they charge me 14$ for a non corrugated charge. (butt holes).
So I just finished 2 pfs this week. I still have to clean the compound out of all of the holes, so I cant take pics till tomorrow. so which pfs are they?
tune in tomorrow afternoon for pics.
I havent mentioned it to anyone except last night i told tommy, that ol louis, aka louie, shit for brains, mouser, great white hunter, deaf, ladies lover louie died monday night. He died in his bed in the shop. He was acting a little sick, but he gets sick often and he has been so close to death that I found him under a bush one day. I thought he was dead, and waited till after work to bury him. When I picked him up he was alive but barely. This was last summer, and after a little medicine and 2 great big shots of electrolyte water per day he was right as rain in about 4 days.
This time it wasn't as dramatic. He didnt show up for breakfast, and when i made it out to work, dum dum was dead.
The vet says he was over 15 years old, and he lived a gangsta life on the north side of kalamazoo, before coming out to the country. So he spent at least 10 years dodging pit bulls and feral cats 4 times his size. I am pretty sure thats why he usually made him self pretty scarce when anyone new showed up, or if there was work to be done. I think being as small as he was, he used personality to stay alive.
of course louie left me a present coiled up about 5 ft from his bed in my shop that I noticed before I noticed he was dead. true till the end. dumb cat.
20220116_150056 (resized).jpg20220325_153926 (resized).jpgThanks for the condolences. I am ok when folks died but got to live good lives. He had it good. It is odd how much I dreamed about him and my dog who is dead also in the last 2 days.
I get these in, right under the wire. both came out flawless, so I am happy. sometimes there is only so much I can do, sometimes, there are just no probs.
20220421_184048 (resized).jpg20220421_184110 (resized).jpg20220421_184129 (resized).jpg20220421_184136 (resized).jpg20220421_184141 (resized).jpg20220421_184145 (resized).jpg20220421_184148 (resized).jpg20220421_184900 (resized).jpg20220421_184912 (resized).jpg20220421_184918 (resized).jpg20220421_184937 (resized).jpg20220421_184941 (resized).jpg20220421_184945 (resized).jpg20220421_184951 (resized).jpg20220421_184956 (resized).jpgPaging the owner of a cpr bally star trek that may or may not be with a strikes and spares. Your pfs are complete.
Quoted from underlord:Lost my cat of 15 years 2 months ago. I feel ya. 2 dogs and 1 cat left.
Btw, got my DM pf, crate arrived perfect. Doing home renovations so it has to stay put for now. Thank you for all your hard work Ron!
the pfs are packed so there is pressure on the front and back of the pf to keep it suspended in the middle of the padding, so keep it up right, and remove it when you can, and take out one of the sheets of padding to relieve the pressure on the clear. please.
Quoted from pinster68:Haha! Yeah it is. Which made me think I should snap a pic of my other big fat fatty … a CPR “gold” SI playfield. I’m very happy with it, but here’s a perfect example of why Ron is in such high demand. Close up of clear is just not in the same league…
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Ya know I dont have a problem with how that clear looks now. My problem is how it looks after 100 games, and 150 games. On the centaur that I bought with the brand new cpr pf, it was so ball dimpled at 100 games it looked like a Titleist, and people would come over and look closely with the glass on and say why does it look like that? It sounded like I was making excuses so I sold it stat. Thats when I started experimenting with the many thin coats, sanded in between plus waiting weeks between coats. Mike schudel has an AFM that I did about 6 years ago, before I changed the process, and his game gets played a lot. he has big parties as well as leagues, and I cant find one ball dimple on that pf, and that title takes a beating!
So most of my labor is for longevity not for the ladies (looks)
You will need the install kit for that roll over in SI. I just got the bits shipped so I am mailing out about 5 of them monday, I will send one to you, and if i owe you a kit or you want one let me know, because like I said monday they are going out. price is 95 plus ship 100$
Thats not my clear on that pf that appears to be a cattacomb.
I dont think the original poster was concerned with a ball getting stuck in the grain of the wood. If that is the case, raise your rear legs.
If you think the production clear on your pf is too thin and you dont like the way it looks, feels or plays, send it to me to spend some time on it.
As for ball dimples. Mirco has a thicker production clear and it ball dimples. cpr has a thin production clear and it ball dimpled, stock stern pfs dimple. I look at it as a great pf for a route game. I have found a way to make the finish harder and not look like a Titleist in 100 plays (refer to the cpr centaur pf experiment).
Yes the install kit will do a couple pfs. if you run out of a part let me know and I can help you replace it.
I dont have room in the crates for the kit so I have to send them separate, and i am going to mail a bunch of kits monday. so if you need one let me know, or if you paid for one lately and got your pf but no kit let me know so I can get it out to ya.
The catacomb thread if of a stock cpr pf. I mentioned that I restored one long ago. I still have that pf for sale if you want to buy it.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kruzman-monthly-playfield-thread/page/9#post-5799659
First photo, bottom left glare right above the shooter lane. I'm assuming kruzman clearcoated that? I think this rippling effect shows up after a playfield is months fully cured . Not sure what it's due to... wood contracting and expanding underneath during the seasons?
[quoted image]
sorry, I hit enter too soon. this pic of a catacomb is not my work it is a stock cpr pf for sale. I wrote about a catacomb that I restored long ago that took many hours, and I have the before and after pics of it, but I was showing a pf for sale. which it still is available.
One of the clichés I have heard a million times is dont assume, it makes an ass of u. Its a play on words. I hate it, but you wrote I am assuming kruzman cleared that? nope. i did not.
Quoted from slochar:About thirty percent of the cpr fields seem to do that. Some have acceptable clear but some do that. The ridgy ones all should be recleared.
I would agree with this. about 1/3 of the pfs have the grain rise after a couple months. Not all. some of them its just a little or on half of the pf, but others like the cpr bally rolling stones I delivered to daane yesterday had ridges so deep I had to hand sand the pf to get down in them without taking off the top.
If the ridges dont bother you, install it as is. no prob. I love pinball weather I did the pf or not. I dont think you have to worry about a ball getting stuck in them.
Quoted from vinnypeppers:One of the clichés I have heard a million times is dont assume, it makes an ass of u. Its a play on words. I hate it, but you wrote I am assuming kruzman cleared that? nope. i did not.
assume.........makes an ASS out of U and ME..................lol
Thats what it is!
Concerning the finish appearance. my clear is different from a stock production clear because they just spray it. I spray sand spray sand, over and over, but here it the big difference, after the last coat, I block sand it ugly but flat, by hand. Then O polish it out to glass, then clean the compound out of the holes.
At this point in my career, its form follows function, but follows very close behind. The last 2 days work is all about looks and a flat gloss surface. the 3-4 months before that it is a lot of hand sanding between each coat over all of the edges of cut outs and dimples. I am not going to say what i do with my clear, but it is manipulated to coat thinner, and harder, and I use a pretty expensive clear. I have tried about 6 different clears in the last 3 years, and I keep going back to what I have been using for about 5 years, but now, I mix it different. You can get a gal of clear for like 89 and a qt of hardner for like 70, but that stuff looks bad, it ball dimples like crazy, it doesnt like to be built up. I dont have a choice I have to buy the expensive crap. I also buy my hardener in half pints rather than quarts, so that its super fresh. Its said to have a life of 14 days after opening, but I can tell after 3 or 4 days. so I use half pints. though I dont want to give away all of my secrets.
Its still putting a super hard material on a soft material, wood that expands and contracts at a different amount than the plastic inserts, and you bounce a HEAVY ball on it with a lot of force. I have said it a million times. There are people who see a repro pf with the wood grain super raised, and they see it is super nice and better than what they have. Then there are people who want something that really stands out for more than because its not worn. Then there are people like me that see everything they do, as a reflection of who they are. so if I cant do something to the best it can be done, I just wont do it.
all of them are right if it makes you happy. even though I take my process as serious as a heart attack, its still not perfect, and just like any moving part, its going to wear each play, just a little. But I would never do what I do for a living if I didnt think it mattered. I took a 75% pay reduction to do this for a living, and I am happy with it, and I hope to continue till I die. Later rather than sooner.
The test I wish everyone could do is have one of my pfs installed next to a stock pf installed. and watch the difference after 100, 150, 200 and so on. When I went to go see one of my pfs that was installed for 5 years in a high traffic, but private place, I was worried it was going to look played, and there was not one ball dimple, it looked brand new, and it played like lightning. so fast!!!
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