When it rains it pours.
This just got dropped off for me to start on, just as I finished the last. I have only done 3 frontier pfs in 13 years, and 2 are in the last couple months. If it was a repro, that would be very common.

front B1 (resized).jpg

front B2 (resized).jpg

front B3 (resized).jpg

I was just reading your post again and I thought of something. I am pretty sure there is a post about some game makers pf's having the star posts sinking in the clear. It may have been regular ball posts. I get frustrated when there are different opinions on what is right, so I avoid them, but it made me think of something.

The clear we use on pfs is not used the way it is designed to be used. The clear I use is made for 2 coats, 3 at the most and only if you screwed the pooch on 2. Yes you can drive your car later that day, but you sure the hell cant screw things down on the paint. Its going to be soft for a couple weeks.

Now imagine is you laid down 5 or 6 thick coats in one or 3 days, which is what happens for production pfs. the bottom coats are sealed in, and are going to take a while to cure. Even longer than the ones on top or if you just did 2 coats. One of the ways I make harder surfaces is take this in to account, and it requires quite a bit of time.

I know there are a million pf experts out here in the pinball world, but it is my opinion that: If you buy a repro pf, especially one from CPR where they ship them out as soon as done, and work on the next title, so they try not to keep a stock which would have time to cure. I highly suggest you let the pf cure in a vented area for at least 3 months. I know you cant always, but keep in mind the longer you let it cure, the harder the surface will be for a heavy metal ball to bounce around on. I have come to this conclusion from trial and error. I am not an expert, though I play one on TV.
So in conclusion if there are more than 2 coats of clear on a pf, and the maker sprayed them in a short peroid of time (less than allowing each set of coats fully cure, then spray on top) its really important to allow it to cure out. as a rule of thumb I pulled 3 months out of my butt. It really depends on the when it was done, what kind of material, how it was applied, how many coats, coats applied over what amount of time, the wood, the weather, a lot of factors.

I was not singling out cpr or anything, I just used them because they do a bunch of work, sell it , and do the next title, which seems to be different than say mirco who has stuff in stock (I am guessing for the sake of the example)

so there it is, and I bumped my thread.

Here are some pics of a nos voltan. It was in better shape than most its age. Usual insert cracks, and a couple scratches and nicks. I didnt realize it until the sander took it right off, but the top laminate was puckered. It was a vertical, long, thin, blister in the wood that was about 3-4" and only about half in wide. Of course it went right thru the woman's brestisis' down in to the script below. I didnt remember to take a pic of it until I was mostly done with the paint work. I avoided painting the entire red area by making the pink shadow a little bigger. A little magic to make it disappear. All of the inserts got painted and they were glued. One of my favorite pfs by one of my favorite pin artists.

I always remember something a dentist said to me. "my best work is never seen" the context was when he does his job well no one notices there was a problem at one time

1volt10 (resized).jpg

1volt2 (resized).jpg

1volt3 (resized).jpg

1volt4 (resized).jpg

1volt5 (resized).jpg

1volt7 (resized).jpg

1volt8 (resized).jpg

1volt9 (resized).jpg

I am finishing up a big batch of jobs, all in the next 3-4 weeks, and I have plenty of capacity, so if you have been waiting for a good time to send in your pf, this is one of the rare times when I dont have a big line up. You can contact me for info.
I am not sure if I have mentioned it on here before, but if you have a rare pf that you are worried about shiping, or you dont have the materials to ship your pf, I can send a shipping crate, with the packing, and all you have to do is drop it in, and you need a power screw driver to screw down the lid of the crate. There are about 15 screws. so far in 13 years , not one pf has ever been damaged in one of the crates.

enjoy the day, and thanks to all who support my work. I am very thankful for the opportunity.
cheers, rk

So here is a example of why I let new repro pfs sit for a couple months before I clear them. This one was pretty smooth except you could feel the inserts, which is no big whoop. In the 6 weeks it has been here, the clear is sinking down in to the grain of the wood. This could be because of what ever leveler/primer they use before clear, or it could be from a production clear where all of the coats are done in one week or less. I dont really know.
I dont see it as a defect or anything. Its just new repro pfs. some companies have more of this effect than others, but it effects all of them, and it happened to the nos when they were made
I took these pics Saturday because I was about to sand it, to allow it cure for another 4 weeks or so. may as well get off 3/4 of the clear, less to cure. Its logical to assume that is will finish curing faster, if I remove most of the clear. I will still have to sand it again before I clear. If I was to clear it without leveling the inserts, they would look forever be sunk. If I was to clear it with this kind of surface texture (if the surface was not glossy, then the grain effect would forever be in the clear)

Many times this happens to such an extreme, that to sand the inserts level, I get down in to the paint all day long, because the inserts are so low. Different pf titles, different runs are all different amounts of this effect. The original playboy (cpr) had hardly any wood grain, insert change from the day it came till a year later. FT is a title that really has issue with this effect.

I have found in my dealings with pfs, each has its own attitude. I do my best on every job. some want to work with me, some are bastards. The good thing is it can all get fixed. Its just a matter of time and money.

some people send me the pf and allow it to cure here, some let it cure at home. Take it out of the box, and if possible, store in a place with the air circulating. I repeat, GET IT OUT OF THE BOX please.

If you have any topics you want an opinion explained in detail, send me a pm. That is why I posted this.

play some pinball, rk

01diner1 (resized).jpg

01diner2 (resized).jpg

01diner3 (resized).jpg

THANK YOU!!!. I wish Wade would re-run that title. I am a huge fan of that game. I have sellers remorse. I bought my wizard that had been all gone thru by a lost lumber jack. It was too nice to restore. I had it for a couple years and as usual had to sell it for I forget, hookers or tires for the van. machines are my savings acct.

On my wizard, I installed a stronger coil only on the right flipper because they had a hard time to make the shot that goes to the top and around. It was on clay's thread or site. it made the game so much more fun. I am sure the clearcoat would be better for making less friction for ball travel.
If you haven't played a wide body with a cleared pf that has been sanded level and polished out (not just sprayed, because that has orange peal to some or more extent) you should see how it livens up the game. most wide pf's have a big empty space in the middle for the ball to slow down. In my opinion TZ and paragon are the 2 games a cleared polished pf makes the biggest difference for speeding up the ball play.

Thank you for the support larry

So this beautiful Night Rider belongs to a guy named ken white out in sunny CA. Him and his father do some amazing restorations and I am always glad to be involved. Besides the quality of work they do, I dig it that they mostly do games from the early SS era (mostly bally I believe.)

This pf had a lacquer or varnish that had a serious brown tint to it. I sanded it right to the ink, and on the center area like the truck trailers and the logo I painted a brighter white. Not straight white so it looks out of place, just much brighter. I reset about 6 inserts, reglued all of the rest, painted them all. There are 2 factory or previous owner touch up spots in dark blue. they are not worth repainting that whole area so I left them. I did some color repaint besides white but I dont think you will find it. The back is gloss oil paint to seal out moisture and wipe off finger prints.

1kr1 (resized).jpg

1kr2 (resized).jpg

1kr3 (resized).jpg

1kr4 (resized).jpg

1kr6 (resized).jpg

1kr7 (resized).jpg

1kr8 (resized).jpg

Its been a very non profitable week here. My old spray gun (the one I like, I have several and they are super expensive $200-500 and I like the cheapest one) finally died and I bought a new fancy expensive one from japan. I am having a hell of a time getting it dialed in, so I replaced all of the filters (5), and gutted my spray room, built new walls, new tables. helped a little. Today I am buying new bigger air hose, and connectors. I am going to move up to 1/2 rather than 3/8. So its been super frustrating because I know everyone wants their pfs. Anyway I will get it figured out but I am not going to spray any more until it does.
Stupid expensive gun. If I could I would return it and buy another 129 rig and use that.

I also got a chance to build some crates, as well as some custom crates for bg's and for paragon (huge). One of the pics is of the insulation boards of different thickness that I use for the packing. SO expensive. Its about 12 bucks for a sheet that gets cut in to 4. News flash: everything is expensive!

I sometimes forget to thank everyone for their support. Sometimes people are so cool when they send me the payment they will round it up, or last week someone sent me a set of plastics for a game I am going to restore. When I watch the news, I think to my self, "man the world sucks" But surprisingly often, my customers can be really kind. I will say it helps me get out of bed in the morning.

crates1 (resized).jpg

crates2 (resized).jpg

crates3 (resized).jpg

Thanks guys, appreciate it.
here is a link to a fella here on pinside doing a swap on a AFM. I really like his work and there is a lot of helpful info in there if you ever get time to read it. It takes a bunch of time to take pics and upload and write explanations, plus opening yourself up to criticism, so I appreciate the effort. Plus the pf and install kit are super cool. ha
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afm-mirco-playfield-gone-over-by-kruzman-swap/page/2#post-5249449

I actually havent owned one or worked on one, so I am not positive about anything. I think it would be worth starting a thread if anyone has any experience doing one. of course there will be lots of opinions, but actual experience. I am told that vid has thousands of posts on restoring pfs. I havent looked at it, but there may be something in there.
Feel free to ask me if you come across any more questions in trying to figure it out, and please post your findings here if you do get a straight forward answer, if you could.
cheers, ron

I remembered something concerning this question last night while watching Jeopardy. if you are unsure of the material on the pf and you are going to clear, do your regular sanding, and dewax, and then do one or 2 "dust coats" I have learned to do this on uncleared cpr pfs, after melting the red inserts and wrecking a BK.
Its what painters do with a surface they cant sand, so I think it will work with this as long as you prep well.
good luck.

Steve Pandol (i think he is in PA) has a GLOBETROTTERS for sale. Its a cpr bronze, and he would like to get rid of it. since mine is sold I figured I would try to help him out. you can contact him at [email protected]
He is on here, but I forget people alias's.
He is a good guy and wont screw you around.

Well this is a good question to have in the archives. I am sure others have answered it, but everyone has an opinion. I also like flight 2k, so I will give you my opinion.
Auto body guys are awesome at what they do, but the only thing in common with their job and pinball is the material used. process is so different!
They paint metal and plastic, but not metal with plastic in the middle of it without a seam dividing. When I spray a car, I spray 2 or 3 coats of clear in one day, and if there are no problems that is the end of it.

ok well to get down to it, the biggest thing is most of the time body shops want to dust it then paint it. It is so important that you sand that pf level. you have to get out the wood grain as well as level the inserts. When you start sanding you will see the gloss parts remain after sanding, they are the low spots. You will be amazed when you run a sander over it and see how level that pf is not. My process is apply 2 coats at a time, allow 15 days cure, and repeat. before recoating you have to sand. Not only for the clear to grab, but to level. Dont forget hand sanding the low points and the edges of the cut holes. this takes me at least 25 min besides the full sand with the sander. if you dont sand the low spots like the dimpled areas and edges of holes they will break, chip, lift, everything bad. After the last coats I sand the entire pf level, then I progress in grit from 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 3000. Then I polish. I have that process down to a full long day. (then you need to clean the compound out of the cut out holes' edges.

I am not just pedaling my wears. I highly recommend my install kit for when you install! it eliminates lifting, chipping, and all of that, and it repairs lifting (ghosting) which you will have plenty enough around the edges of your inserts if you dont sand the wood and insert level. I think the shipping would be about 25-30 bucks, not sure.

You may want to explain to your body painter that you want a clear that is durable for a ball rolling over it

So I hole that helps. Now that I explained my secret process, I expect to be out of biz soon, so I am going to submit my app to the nearest fast food restaurant.

Correct on those very cupped inserts, and your explanation of dealing with it is exactly what I recommend. I ouldnt explain it any better I dont think without step by step directions, but that is exactly how I would deal with inserts that cupped. I dont think its possible to sand that pf without having to paint around the inserts because of the edges of the inserts, and the edge of the wood and where they are suppose to be flush. I always reef on the sander on the inserts because I would want to paint them anyway since there is the crack around them. also, they are almost 40 which means if you clear that pf without glueing those inserts, it wont be long at all before the clear starts ghosting from loose inserts. It goes on and on. I am serious I spend all of 40 hours in these pfs without the paint work. at least its dimpled.

I usually bring a pf or 2 to J dayhuffs party (next weekend) and I stash it in J.D.'s office for people to check out, on his desk or file cab. Not sure which I will being this year. I think I brought the amazing spiderman last year. It depends on what gets done between now and then.
If there are any pfs on my list at the start of this post, that you may be interested in, I can bring them to the party for you to look at, or buy. Saves the stress of shipping.
If you are going to Johns party for the first time this year prepare to have your mind blown!

Hi robert without pics, I really have no idea on advice, but generally speaking, I would take 6 months (it may take much less) and find a nos or used pf that is in much better condition. when the wear is the womans face, (like I said I dont know what it looks like) you may have a hard time painting it. working on a unlevel surface is not as easy as a stretched canvas. matching colors that are over 30 years old is about impossible, so you will want to paint the entire thing, when you lay down a color. It goes on and on. My point is this sounds like a full restoration repaint. I also dont like airbrush work except for doing large background areas like under the arch or apron, so, I just dont have much help for you on this one.

Ok so you have a second pf. Thats is the way I do it. Now I understand a little better. one suggestion, is check all of the inserts. the loose ones, you should pull and reset. The inserts that feel tight, you should still glue in place from behind.

The way I do repaint on older pfs like this, is when you match a color, paint all of that color in that area, and dont forget the clear will make it deeper.
I have used your trace paper idea before, just to apply dots to the edges of the outside of a color, on the pf you are painting.
Lastly get your surface as flat as possible!!!
Dont be afraid to re do something.

I spent the weekend doing the final sand and polish on a nos Taf pf. The worst part is I cant see the flaws in the clear until I get the finish so polished at the very end. if i just polished it good enough, they would never show, but in this case, a little bit of compound caked outside a cut out. The wheel got too much compound on it, and it hits the hole and then at the far side of the hole it deposits some compound that I didnt see, and continued to run the wheel. then it is all done, and I see the caked bits of compound (About 3 of them each about 3 mm) and they stand a little higher than the rest of the surface because the caked material stopped the buffer wheel from hitting that small area and it is a bit higher, so if you look at the right angle, there it is. This sucks so bad because this pf is amazing. so beautiful and today I have to sand the area starting at 1000, 1200, 1500, then wet block 2 and 3 grand. Then I have to go thru the 5 polishes and 5 buffer heads and blend it with the rest of the pf and prey I dont burn anything or make any mistakes. This is easily a half days work of sucksville. So today I am trying to stay positive, but I gotta get out there. If you are the owner of this pf please contact me, I cant find our correspondence. your name is on your crate, I just havent been out there today.
Livin the dream!! I wanna thank everyone for their support.

Ken white in CA has a nos SPY HUNTER that I perfected and cleared, for sale. He is not going to use it. He also has a stock wade krauss sky jump for sale.
He is a very reasonable guy and his email is
[email protected]
you can contact him for price and info. I am doing this as a favor.

If you want an amazing nos pf my buddy Ken White has a spy hunter I tweeked and cleared for him. he sold his game and is selling the pf at a large loss at 850. Its listed here on pinside. For that price hang it on the wall. If I get some cash flow I will buy it.

wow that elviria is so beautiful!! the resto looks awesome, with the lock down receiver, and new decals. Maybe some day if you need a roof or lawyers, you can sell it to me. (lets hope not)

I am thinking about changing the name of my operation to
'TEGRITY pf's

That show is better than ever, though I can think of a lot of folks that wouldnt think its funny at all

I finished a NOS TAF and a cpr elviria. Both came out so nice. Both amazing colors by the original designers. The elviria really stands out Deep contrasting colors, great art!

Some people dont know this, but I am happy to trade and barter (are they the same?) of course plus and minus cash. Things are rarely equil.
For example I just traded 4-5 jobs for a bunch of the geiger kits where you get a pf, bg, and plastics to make a game like matta hari, glotrotters, and Kiss, in to a new game with the "pretty pinball girls in space" that became almost extinct once ron and nancy and meese came in to office. I am going to do the lady death conversion, which is a matta hari conversion. Its the only one I have the pf , bg and plastics for. The KISS/MISS world is the best by far because of the art work, but I cant afford a kiss game.

They are not on my list above but I do have Space rider and miss world pf's for sale. The Miss world needs just a bit of black paint work at the top, otherwise all of these are in amazing condition. BGR is working on or has the back glasses for them, and tommy is working on the plastic sets. CPR has the back glass for miss world on their web site, but it says they made it so it cant be used. I am wondering if it can be worked on to work in a game. that bg is amazing!!!!!

OOps I accidently included a pic of my dream truck, "doug" Thats right, a 7.3 litre powerstroke (my girlfirend thinks that is halirous and perfect for me), with the new mini van in the back ground. Shout out to dave in Imlay city for hooking me up that that new pin hauler. My sister had the same year with sto and go seats and J.D and I got 3 games in there after expo. As for the 1996 f250. well thats for charming the ladies

1a11 (resized).jpg

1a12 (resized).jpg

1a14 (resized).jpg

1a16 (resized).jpg

Maybe someone cane help with this problem. My computer used to highlight spelling errors as I composed. For some reason it stopped. Its old. so on my email there is an icon at the top of the page for spell check. There is not one here. is there a command like; "control " I can do, so I have spell check again? I am realizing that everything I post gets saved for ever, and I would like to take care of my spelling issues. so if you know, and you have a moment, please send me a pm, and I will be so grateful.
cheers, ron

My man Jim. Thank you for the help!!!

So this is a completed Williams Alien Poker that I would love to throw in my game, but it is owned by a customer. I really like the company who made this pf. They are german and made the bride and f14 repro pfs. It didnt fight or resist, though it did get an extra 2 coats. It came out perfect. love it. you can see the reflections, one is a tree in the clear. Notice how un-distorted i is. That is the result of my least favorite job. wet block sanding

ap10 (resized).jpg

ap12 (resized).jpg

ap13 (resized).jpg

ap2 (resized).jpg

ap4 (resized).jpg

ap7 (resized).jpg

ap8 (resized).jpg

ap9 (resized).jpg

Its possible that the aliens in this game influenced the guys who made Rick and Morty

Here is that night Rider being installed by mr white.
Looks pretty darn nice

1nr (resized).jpeg