(Topic ID: 243533)

KRUZMAN monthly playfield thread

By kruzman

2 years ago


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#1301 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I am not complaining though. Its job security for me.
When the pf makers clear their pfs. One of them would do 2 coats (plus a mist coat to avoid sanding) and then they would do 2 more coats later in the week. Thats a good effort because it would be easier to just stack it 4 layers high. The deeper you stack it, all at once the longer it takes to cure and the softer it is, and stays. With the amount of planks they do, its impossible to do it the way I do it (which is a butt load of work). I have said it in the past, but if they did my job the cost of the game would be another grand. So its best for them to do what they can to make a game that will make quarters, and if a collector wants to tweek it, they can call me. actually I dont talk on the phone, please text or email.

Quit talking to yourself Ron, put on your boot and go cut some grass!

#1302 3 months ago

I am heading out to the studio right now. I tried to go to a car show but its way too hot for me.
I just cleaned all of the compound out of the edges of this AFM, and I am going to see if I can get a centaur, or willy wonka sanded and polished this weekend. Its good to have 2 options because there is a good chance I wont like something about one of them, and it will have to be sanded and recoated.
Now that its aug, I have to stop using fast hardener. it leaves too much little "gas holes". Problem is there is a bottle neck issue with clear coat, as with other materials. evidently they didnt build up inventory during covid...... I have heard it so many times all ready with wood, cars, plexi glass. So incase you haven't heard anyone bitch about it, the covid sucks.

I did a record number of coats applied from july 8 till aug 7. My spray room only has room for 1 or 2 pfs at a time. I am going to take some pics of the afm, and what ever else I can get done. Its stupid hot.

Got the stitches out of my foot. No infection!!!

#1303 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

Got the stitches out of my foot. No infection!!!

Oh, good news!

#1304 3 months ago

i think I can shed some light on your earlier question of what you did wrong

#1305 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

My spray room only has room for 1 or 2 pfs at a time.

Best to expand that spray room to handle more playfields at once while you have time. A tidal wave of jjGnR playfields are coming your way starting 12 months from now.

#1306 3 months ago

First I wanted to get the pic that made me come back to the house giggling

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#1307 3 months ago

This afm and space rider make me happy.

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#1308 3 months ago

I re-did the finish on this one because I didnt like how it came out the first time. Its not perfect, but its plenty awesome! I forgot the shoot a pic of the back, I will try to remember to do that. It had a really light coat of a semi opaque gray stain that made the grain look good, so I cleared on top w polyurethane to seal it. The way I test if it is sealed is if I spit on the back, wait a few secs and wipe it off. If it left a dark spot on the wood it needs to be sealed

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#1309 3 months ago

while you have time.

Thats the problem, right there.
although I am dickin around on the computer right now. i will go back out to the shop

#1310 3 months ago

I got giggles too from your pics. First the plurals quote "Same Players Shoots Again". Then the picture of females booty with the tattoo of "Collect Bonus"!

#1311 3 months ago

Or is is spelled wrong and should be collect Bone Us? Doesn’t Bad Cats have Fish Bone Us on its playfield? Makes sense for Python.

#1312 3 months ago
Quoted from Tophervette:

I got giggles too from your pics. First the plurals quote "Same Players Shoots Again". Then the picture of females booty with the tattoo of "Collect Bonus"!

germans

#1313 3 months ago

I have a customer looking for a 6 million dollar man pf (nos).
I had one for almost a decade, but of course it sold right before this guy asked. Thats always the way it goes.
so let me know if you have one.
OR... let me know if you have any nos pf you would like to sell or trade for me

#1314 3 months ago

Here is something rare that I did for a customer, and he didnt use it. In fact I could tell he was telling the truth, that he never even opened the crate, and its been like a year and a half.
I still have my cleared alice cooper, and I havent got much interest in it, so i figured I would double down on the spooky collection and grab this RnM while it was available. I tried to buy an extra from the factory when they were being made, but no dice.

So this has my clear, and I am happy to see that the wood was not moist when I did it, then shrank, like some of the repro's do when you put them in the closet for a couple months.

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#1315 3 months ago

Its always funny when this happens but except for maybe a couple times when someone goes to post in a forum, "I got to have it!! how much?" they never buy the pf. The exception that comes to mind is the gentlemen who bought that sample TZ pf said he had to have it and he was not bullshitting. I forget his name down in texas, crap. anyway he is a rock star compared to to the usual big mouth that has to have it.

I am not angry at all. its so common that when I saw it, I just laugh. And I dont mean to talk crap about anyone, I just had a letter from a friend who assumed that the RnM pf was sold for the reaction of someone on a different forum I posted it on. Sorry in which I posted . (prep ph)
But come on, only one up vote for a pf this rare? I have no idea how the original owner got spooky to give it up. They are super tight with their licensed pfs and for good reason. I think its because he bought 2 games. One had my pf installed at the factory. (how cool is that?).

This pf is on my living room wall unless/until it sells. The deal I made w my self, is all pfs bought with company money are for sale.

#1316 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

The exception that comes to mind is the gentlemen who bought that sample TZ pf said he had to have it and he was not bullshitting. I forget his name down in texas, crap. anyway he is a rock star compared to to the usual big mouth that has to have it.

Hey! I got the early sample PF from you! So that makes two of us!

Quoted from kruzman:

But come on, only one up vote for a pf this rare?

This is interesting to read though. When I visited Spooky a couple years back (Sept '19), they were making ACNC's. I had put in my order for one, but hadn't gotten it yet. I asked about buying playfields from them, and they said, "Oh yeah, we have them available!" and pointed me to a huge cabinet where they had piles of them sitting on their sides, like a vertical map drawer. This was before RnM, and maybe they assumed I was meaning only ACNC because I was an owner, but I got the impression that if I wanted a PF, I could get one.

Sadly, while not a huge RnM fan, the PF to me is very less interesting to me than, say ACNC. ACNC's art, there's a lot going on. RnM here doesn't have the same feel to it to me.

Don't get me wrong - I AM interested in the ACNC field you have. But with you currently set to work on ONE of my TZ fields, and then taking care of my ptototype TZ field, I already owe you my first-born! I can't afford to give you any other kids. At this time, at least.

#1317 3 months ago

crap, WV, texas, same thing I was talking about you.

#1318 3 months ago

I think the RnM game sold out really fast, and thats why I couldnt get a pf.
I am guessing

#1319 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

crap, WV, texas, same thing

HAH! We have better Covid contrl than Texas, at least.

Quoted from kruzman:

I think the RnM game sold out really fast, and thats why I couldnt get a pf.

Interesting. If I WAS an RnM owner, I would be more comfortable knowing that replacements were available! If this IS that rare.. maaaan, hold on to it.

#1320 3 months ago

If this IS that rare.. maaaan, hold on to it.

Mos Def. I bought it for me. I am in no hurry to sell it. I call my self a collector, others have said hoarder. If I dont stick to my rules about selling the pfs though, who ever buys my foreclosed house will prob get them!

#1321 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

If this IS that rare.. maaaan, hold on to it.
Mos Def. I bought it for me. I am in no hurry to sell it. I call my self a collector, others have said hoarder. If I dont stick to my rules about selling the pfs though, who ever buys my foreclosed house will prob get them!

I promise to rob your house before that ever happens Ron! By the way you make a couple of appearances in my Voltan thread that I just wrote up. Thanks for the visits this past summer, it was great to spend time up there.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-the-story-a-voltan-looked-sad-in-photographs-but-i-absolutely-/page/2#post-6441081

#1322 3 months ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I promise to rob your house before that ever happens Ron! By the way you make a couple of appearances in my Voltan thread that I just wrote up. Thanks for the visits this past summer, it was great to spend time up there.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-the-story-a-voltan-looked-sad-in-photographs-but-i-absolutely-/page/2#post-6441081

This post on the voltan is a great read, check it out

#1323 3 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

HAH! We have better Covid contrl than Texas, at least.

Sniff, sniff! I love dealing with Ron and getting great PFs! looking forward to many more!

#1324 3 months ago

kruzman is there anything you can add to the video of the Mirco AfM clear being blown off by an air compressor in huge chunks? It seems like that pretty much proves that the clear didn't bond to the ink layer. Would one of your clear jobs fail like this if put in a cage match with compressed air?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-needed-from-jjp-owners-with-playfield-damage/page/4#post-6443182

#1325 3 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

kruzman is there anything you can add to the video of the Mirco AfM clear being blown off by an air compressor in huge chunks? It seems like that pretty much proves that the clear didn't bond to the ink layer. Would one of your clear jobs fail like this if put in a cage match with compressed air?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-needed-from-jjp-owners-with-playfield-damage/page/4#post-6443182

I watched the air compressor video, and its not surprising. I had a car painted, and the same thing happened at the quarter car wash. I had a cpr cyclone, and the inserts had popped out after a couple months, (cpr didnt know that they had to sand the edges of the inserts. its a problem on firepower and cyclone) I still have that mess, and then I was able to pop off about 2/3 of the clear with air and fingernails.

Here is what I can say about my clear. I use the compressor set at 135psi, many times thru my process. The nozel is always less than 1 in from the surface, and I blow off the sanding after each pass. Then when done sanding I use the 135 psi to get all dust out of the drill holes and dimples. then I hit it from behind to get all of the dust off the inside edges. After I am done polishing I blow the hell out of the pf to get off as much of the compound as I can, so when I go thru by hand and run a towel thru all of the holes, its not as messy. Its not an accident that I do this, I think its the best way to keep a look out for a situation where the clear didnt bind

So would my clear do that? no. but there are a couple things to keep in mind. With mirco I have mentioned this many times, I have to make the clear spray over the edges of the cut outs and on to the inside edges. This gives it a better grip.
also I sand off as much as I can, or until I hit ink somewhere, so I dont get to achieve the initial bond. Now this is all stuff I think about all of the time, and when I started developing my clear to be more concentrated on longevity rather than looks, I would do the old sun processing test, where i put masking tape in an x on the surface and then cut in to it with an exacto and pull the tape up to see if it pulls up the clear. That was the test they used when making the sys 11 and later pfs. I know this because I owned a lot of the tested pfs that I bought from gene.

I dont recommend taking a compressor or power washer to your car or pf to test it.

Here is a fact. Just the way that clear is made, if I slam a pf in to a door frame while being an oaf, and it puts a big dent in the pf on the clear side, chances the clear will not bend with the wood, and will stay flat, so I would expect ghosting. I cant say to what degree or with certainty.

I have found the key to a hard surface for the ball to glide on without getting a ball dimpled up is multiple thin coats, and the most important thing is to sand rather than doing a dust coat. The only time I do a dust coat is when I get a pf with raw ink on the surface. if I scuff it takes off the ink, so what a dust coat is you spray a light coat and let the droplets grab and dry then use them for your mechanical bond. Then sanding between each coat takes a lot of time, disks of sandpaper are more than a dollar a disk, plus you now have a bunch of cancerous dust all over everything, but its the only way to get the surface I am ok with.

So getting back to the vid of the guy pealing the clear off the pf with the compressor.
It shouldnt come off that easy, and completely like it did. thats a bad clear. But I would think that if you found or made a loose spot somewhere and used enough pressure, you will blow the paint or clear off any thing its applied to (house, car, trim, floor).

Now to answer your question, would one of my clear jobs do the same. I am sure if you use enough pressure you would find places to lift, but like I said all thru my process I have a nozel just like the one used, less than an inch from the surfaces of my pfs, many times between each coat. so my clear basically gets tested at least 20 times thru my process at 135psi. I used to be at 150 psi but I was wrecking my sanders.

Also my clear encapsulates the original clear. I sand further than the original edges on the pf, so that the original edges are not exposed. If that makes any sense.

As you guys know I am not big on pics and u tube and all of that (but I am getting better) I have done what was done in that video before, on a cpr pf, and about 1/3 of the clear would not come off with the compressor or picking. I wish very much it would have all come off so I could reclear it. now if I sand the clear that wont come off I will sand off the ink that is exposed from the clear that did come off.

When It happened on my mustang after body work, it was a bummer

#1326 3 months ago

I just remembered another situation where the clear blew off like that. It was someone that had a pf cleared at a body shop (he said) and sold it to me. There were places that I could tell it was not sound, and eventually I saw that they cleared over mylar so I had to use air to remove it all. Body shops that brag that they "paint 6 digit cars" have no concept of what involved with clearing a wood and plastic pf that is going to have a ball roll on it very hard and fast.
The way I saw it, was painting over mylar is the equivalent of painting over bumper stickers.

The video doesnt say if that is a stock clear or what. I have been thinking about it, and when I prep a mirco, I sand it and I blow the shit out of it. its natural for me to want the most force possible so I have the gun as close as I can, and I would think that I would have blown off some clear, especially at an edge or a dimple hole, and I never have. his clear is production quality, at best, but I bet I work on more of his pfs than anyone and its never happened to me.
so I think thats my reply. I have never seen it happen. CPR? yes once.

#1327 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I watched the air compressor video, and its not surprising.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

#1328 3 months ago

This pf came out so good, I had to come in just to post them. Mircos clear is questionable at best but the print is amazing compared to the stuff I usually work on. This belongs to Nic, and I am going to try to get it out by tomorrow. It was suppose to be done a couple weeks ago, but i wanted to add another 2 coats. With these mircos I am just going to have to make that standard.

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#1329 3 months ago

May as well post them all

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#1330 3 months ago

As I have posted before, since the clear is done before the cutting of the board, the inside edges of all of the holes and cut outs are raw wood. Sometimes on the back there is a light attempt at sealing, but doing it this way makes for a lot of un treated, unsealed plywood that just wants to absorb moisture and expand. So in theory you are going to have all of these points where the moisture will effect the plywood, making it expand and contract.

UNLESS, you have me reclear it. It takes 4 shots or coats to get the insides of all of those cut outs. I hit it north south east and west.
Even the side edges are not sealed. If I put my wet finger on the side edge, the wood absorbs the water on my finger. (this is how I test to see of the wood is treated or able to absorb moisture, it darkens even after I wipe away the water.
wood hates water. It makes it expand and contract, so the finish attached to it gets very stressed. Similar to a house. If there is so gutters or over hang, then the water gets on the side of the house, it expands and the paint job wont last long

#1331 3 months ago

Dang that is some great looking work Ron. Much appreciated and can't wait to receive it!

#1332 3 months ago

Its a totally different style, but the background art reminds me of centaur, the way there is great art in the background and you dont really notice until you really look. This is not the usual stern clip and paste art crap and then do a little fuz around the edges of the cut out. I dont own any JJ machines, but to me they sure seem to have a heck of a lot more to them than the other makers.

#1333 3 months ago

Ron: The plastic lenses do not need to be sanded before being epoxied into the playfield. If things are good, to remove the plastic lenses you will remove wood along with the lense. I carefully drill out the lense in multiple areas before trying to tap them out. Even being careful you still can have wood damage.
In the past some lenses would need to be sanded on the sides if not perfectly flush. Some of PBR lenses are that way. The old glue some manufacturers used maybe you would need to do that to have better adhesion, but likely they did not do that. That is why old playfields it is easy to pop them out without wood damage.

#1334 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

As I have posted before, since the clear is done before the cutting of the board, the inside edges of all of the holes and cut outs are raw wood. Sometimes on the back there is a light attempt at sealing, but doing it this way makes for a lot of un treated, unsealed plywood that just wants to absorb moisture and expand. So in theory you are going to have all of these points where the moisture will effect the plywood, making it expand and contract.
UNLESS, you have me reclear it. It takes 4 shots or coats to get the insides of all of those cut outs. I hit it north south east and west.
Even the side edges are not sealed. If I put my wet finger on the side edge, the wood absorbs the water on my finger. (this is how I test to see of the wood is treated or able to absorb moisture, it darkens even after I wipe away the water.
wood hates water. It makes it expand and contract, so the finish attached to it gets very stressed. Similar to a house. If there is so gutters or over hang, then the water gets on the side of the house, it expands and the paint job wont last long

I have to put this disclaimer in often: The statement above was not to say the pf is inferior, or to rip on the pf or manufacture. I wrote this to point out what I do to go above and beyond. My work is for collectors that want their games to be "just so" and "perfect", and to play/last for a long time, and still look new.

So many people think I just spray on extra coats of new and used pfs (many many many ask if they have to remove the parts before I add the clear) so I often will use the question at hand as an opportunity to point out what I do or how I address issues, justifying the extra cost to reclear a brand new plank.

I say this all of the time, but the things I do and the way I do them wouldnt work for production. I am sure the manufactures would if they could and keep the prices the same. again this makes the situation even better because the collector now has a choice for materials and costs.

I am like the reef fish that clean up the sea turtle's shell. I make them more aero dynamic, and remove his parasites/barnicles, and I get fed.

#1335 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I am like the reef fish that clean up the sea turtle's shell. I make them more aero dynamic, and remove his parasites/barnicles, and I get fed.

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#1336 3 months ago

I love it!!
I am not a hat guy I have a really BIG and long head so I am goofy to start with, and when I was a kid looked so stupid with a base ball cap that I wanted to wear so bad. I finally found a hat that I could wear, a straw cowboy hat that I got from the saddle and tac store, and I enjoyed it for about 10 years, even though it became popular for women of ill repute to wear dumb cowboy style hats (usually leopard print) with the sides all curled up and the front bent way down low. This fad got popular about half way thru the 10 years I got out of my daily use hat, and so often on fri night in my one light town, i would see a girl with a pink cowboy hat with leopard print and she would slur "nice hat mister!" and go back to her drinking/mating ritual. I would say to my self "this too shall pass"

One sun evening, in the shagon wagon, coming back from expo I realized I wasnt wearing my hat, and I had left it at the hotel. It was so beat up after so long I just decided to let it go...

Thanks for that art. I love it

#1337 3 months ago

Ron,
Have you ever tackled a really old playfield like from a Gottlieb wedgehead, where the playfield is planked, the paint is flaking off, and the inserts are so cupped you could use them to serve drinks? How would you approach a nightmare like that?

#1338 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Ron,
Have you ever tackled a really old playfield like from a Gottlieb wedgehead, where the playfield is planked, the paint is flaking off, and the inserts are so cupped you could use them to serve drinks? How would you approach a nightmare like that?

Go back a couple pages and look at the catacomb pics. I did a fireball that was 100% repaint also. Those jobs were the best achievements of this career, but there is no way I could earn a living doing it. It took me so many hours.
I have never looked but I think there is a pf resto guide by a guy on pinside named VID. there may be a bunch of good or bad info in that.

The gottlieb wedge-heads pfs are almost always in better shape than the pfs from the 1980's (which are the worst) because of paint technology. Before bally established the first art department in like '73 or 72, all of the manufactures had commercial advertising studios do all of the art. So often I will see an old newspaper, and the advertisement for J.C penny looks just like the art on the pins.

#1339 3 months ago

I haven't talked about this in a long time, but I was thinking about the question of the pf that really smoked. What I always did before a resto is think about the logistics and economics of a better suited pf for the resto. Back when we had shows, I have bought and sold pfs for 10 bucks. at the dayhuff auction at PATZ, there are always a bunch of old pfs that sell for 10 bucks ea or less.

J dayhuff and I were at a show one time, (Koz's show in detroit) and we found a populated spirit pf for 125.00. I had never seen the game and didnt recognize it at the time, but he sure did!!!! The seller knew how rare it was, but he was super cool and wanted to get some of his parts out there to be used. I ended up restoring that pf. It was sooo nice when I was done. Man that was a good time.

I found a pf at a pa show, outside that was so dirty the seller didnt know what game it was. I knew it was a stern viper so I bought it and cleaned it up, and it was a very straight forward pf restore.

So my point is unless there is some reason that you have to keep that plank, I would spend a year or 2 looking for a better restoration canidate.

PLUS as I used to insist to folks, you are so much better off finding another pf to restore, then you can do a swap, rather than have a basket case for a year, and try to reassemble.

#1340 3 months ago

"I am not a hat guy I have a really BIG and long head so I am goofy to start with, and when I was a kid looked so stupid with a base ball cap"
man your making it hard on me buddy ole pal, I wanna say something ........
Hows your cat?

#1341 3 months ago
Quoted from Paulb:

"I am not a hat guy I have a really BIG and long head so I am goofy to start with, and when I was a kid looked so stupid with a base ball cap"
man your making it hard on me buddy ole pal, I wanna say something ........
Hows your cat?

After I re read that one, I knew I was gonna get it!
Ol' Louis is resting on his good looks. That cat does not hunt. There are rabbits everywhere!

#1342 3 months ago

My long gone hat

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#1343 3 months ago

And hair!

#1344 3 months ago

I am going to file for medicade or whatever the dole is called. I have ptsd from loosing my hair. I cant work.

#1345 3 months ago

kruzman you do an amazing job! Maybe it’s time for you come in my playfield help topic and ask mirco if he want s a day in your shop to get a course of “how to clear a playfield”

#1346 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

kruzman you do an amazing job! Maybe it’s time for you come in my playfield help topic and ask mirco if he want s a day in your shop to get a course of “how to clear a playfield”

I would be happy to. Years ago I went to Genes IPB shop and we spent almost a day talking about ways to avoid problems, and different clear issues. Even in his 70's , gene had a bunch of awesome ideas. He was one of the most interesting people I have ever met. He had a big ol line of shit he slung at shows, when hawking parts, but in real life he was super complicated. He had a compound that was amazing, and he had houses on the compound for the kids and their familys to live. I forget his son in laws name that did all of the clearing, but he was also super cool, and busted ass daily.

Rick introduced me to mirco when he first got started. He seems very serious about his work, and seems able to pivot quick and easy. I am surprised he is having problems. Since I look at the pf finish as a artistic labor of a lot of manual work, I probably wouldnt be much help to him. He seems to run a really advanced, industrial shop, and my stuff is all by hand.

How about a link to your thread?

#1348 3 months ago

By the way, the JJ pirates of the Caribbean CE pf that I finished and posted a couple days ago, is for sale. if interested contact me and I will give you his info. Thats the extent of my involvement with the sale. I like to help.

#1349 3 months ago

Sorry guys its just too hot and humid out to work on pfs. I am gonna hold up, in the basement for a while I guess.

#1350 3 months ago
Quoted from kruzman:

Sorry guys its just too hot and humid out to work on pfs. I am gonna hold up, in the basement for a while I guess.

Ron, the projects can wait. Take it easy, rest and stay hydrated. My son-in-law has been building a 2500’ pole/barbed wide fence and suffered from heat exhaustion in the Mississippi heat today.

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