Um...what's false? Not trying to be political, just using common sense and obvious observations related to the areas in question. I'll stop, as it's like talking to a wall with this nonsense.

Anyway, point was, due to his location, law enforcement hands are tied. If it was a normal area, charges could be pressed.

If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon.

Prove me wrong !!!

You are correct. A granny wagon.

If my cat had wheels, he would be a...

This is exactly what I was thinking in my post earlier. It went from a case of straight fraud to something else when he shipped that garbage and the fact that we're dealing with obscure video games that 99% of people aren't familiar makes it that much harder to sort out when trying to explain it to anyone involved.

And politics aside one thing that the current climate surrounding police has done is push the good cops out. I'm far from a police apologist, I've been a follower/supporter of PINAC for over a decade and think we need serious reform around policing, but when the cops get shit every minute of every day on the job it means the good ones are more likely to leave and the shit heads stick around. Whether they do a good or bad job these days they take shit just for being in uniform so if you have skills and are smart that's going to push you into the private sector. It means we're left with the lowest common denominator still on the job, the type who will find every excuse in the book to not do their job.

This might be true, but when he started by sending out or posting pictures of the good stuff, and made deals with people based off those pictures, he establishes the origin point from where the fraud began. Selling based of those pictures, and receiving something that 100% does not resemble said pictures and can be proven with serial numbers, cabinet art and shapes, and removed components constitutes fraud. The fact that these images and monies were sent via the internet constitutes wire fraud.

Has anyone actually contacted their local federal agency to verify whether or not they'd take up the case? I think those that still haven't received their games should all contact their local FBI or whatever-other-federal-agency/prosecutor-they-can-find's office and ask them personally, every single one of them that live in different cities. If these agencies start hearing the same chatter about the same scammer from all over the country, they're gonna look into it. That's what happened with the old McDonald's Monopoly scam that went on in the 90's. Enough chatter started up about it and a couple agents decided to look into it and they opened the entire can of worms of the scam that was going on. (It's actually in a great documentary from a couple years ago called McMillions, I think it was.)

I think until all of the local offices of the FBI, or whomever, from all the cities of the people who got scammed say, "No, we're not going to take up that case, regardless of how many people he scammed in X number of states", then it's worth pursuing federal action.

https://www.hbo.com/mc-millions

Federal laws are different. If someone has the list of people who were ripped off, spend a little time and identify which Federal district these people live in. There are 94 different districts, with 94 different US Attorney's. For instance I live in Orange County and San Diego County has their own district even though we live next to the border of San Diego county. Central district goes from San Clemente to San Louis Obispo. These 2 offices prosecute crimes slightly different as the San Diego office's jurisdiction starts at our country's border up to Orange county.

He lives in one district and others live in another district. I would contact a federal criminal attorney and have them call the FBI and the US Attorney's office. I have trouble believing that someone contacted the FBI and informed them that an individual is scamming people all over the country committing fraud, money laundering and wire fraud and were told we don't investigate these crimes because the amount isn't enough. I have found that when an attorney contacts these types of agencies, they respond differently. Also, the attorney must know Federal law. Many people make mistakes by hiring a criminal attorney, when they need a federal criminal attorney. The law and practice of these laws are different and require an attorney with Federal law experience.

It is the US Attorney's office in each district who decides who to prosecute under Federal law. It seems to me people are conflating Federal and state law. They aren't the same. He may be a pretty good scammer, but federal prison camps and prisons are full of these types. He's nothing special.

I read about a federal fraud romance conviction in OC last week. I googled OC romance fraud conviction dated 10/17 and I found the dept of justice media relations publishes the case. 20 victims scammed out of hundreds of thousands. Well written. At the bottom of the page is the central district of Ca dept of justice media relations person:

Thom Mrozek
Director of Media Relations
Thom.mrozekusdoj.gov
213 894-6947

If I were burned I would have my attorney call this guy first and find out which of his colleagues he might refer too. The romance case and this have similarities.

The guy can barely put a coherent sentence together, spends all day doing drugs and sleeping with prostitutes and you guys think he's some sort of criminal mastermind?

I'm not saying a crime wasn't committed....based on what several people have claimed here, there are several levels of charges that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm just saying the world has changed, and for lack of a better term, these kinds of crimes have become sort of 'normalized', where we don't pay much attention to them anymore as a society, and so long as no one got hurt, or some elderly person wasn't bilked out of their life savings, it pretty much gets ignored as a "buyer beware" type of thing. The McDonalds case involved a very high profile corporation and a national contest that millions of people bought into.....it had great headline potential (that was unfortunately overshadowed by 911), and documentaries movies have been made, etc. I doubt seriously anyone is going to make a movie about the great video Game Caper of 2022.

But I do agree with you on one thing. The only slim chance for any kind of law enforcement investigation probably lies with the power of many voices aimed at one agency......and that would likely be the Oregon Dept of Justice. They are the champions of consumer protection, and as a state agency, they can ask the FBI for assistance if needed, which is the only chance they will ever be involved. The best way to get their interest is for every victim to file a complaint with the Oregon Dept of Justice, and relentlessly follow up on those complaints as well. If enough chatter develops, there is a slim chance they will take a look. I have not followed the case very closely, and I know there is some sort of (legal?) Marijuana grow operation involved, so the DOJ may want to look into that connection and use it for leverage...it's a lot higher profile.

Street smarts vs book smarts... some people spent all of their life committing crimes like this, they tend to get pretty good at figuring out these schemes. Mastermind might be taking it a little too far but so far he's won out over all of the people he scammed so he seems to be pretty good at it if you ask me.

I believe you to be right. I thought he was in central district CA. There is only one federal district for Oregon. This is where to start. But if you live in another district, crimes were committed in that district related to you and others and can be prosecuted in your district as well if Oregon won't. The central district of CA would most likely prosecute this case if he were here according to my attorney. They just take a long time. If feds took case they might not indict for another 18 months or so. But their conviction rate is usually somewhere around 98% because of all the plea agreements due to severity of the sentences.

I've said since nearly the start he'd face little to no punishment from the law, but its not because he hatched the perfect plan.

We're merely talking about it on a separate forum. We're not the direct victims from the original forum. We're not throwing any kind of law book at him whatsoever. My point and my question is merely, has anyone in the affected class even tried to contact their local federal prosecutors about this guy? We don't know if anybody has thrown any kind of law books at this guy yet. I'm thinking whomever made the comment about the "FBI not taking any case under $1M" might have adversely influenced the victims to not pursue legal action. I'm just saying they need to follow up on this and pursue this course of action. If they find a lawyer who's good with federal, interstate fraud, and wire fraud cases to refer them, they all need to jump on that bandwagon, like right now.

The guy who said that is one of the victims so I'm pretty sure he tried himself. May not have gone about it the right way though.

He and many others have (and continute to) try every law enforcement agency available without much luck. Most if not all of these guys are not half assing it.

I can tell you from direct personal experience, you would be lucky to get a federal agency to investigate for even 5M. feds are usually not the primary court of jurisdiction for such matters....they are primarily an assisting agency, and their involvement usually starts when asked by local authorities. Yes, they do take on some really high profile cases on their own, but that is not the norm for basic theft cases such as this. Contacting a federal prosecutor or the FBI, DOJ, etc. is not going to get you anything but a referral to the state or local authorities. If there is any shot at a case, they need to start with the state attorney general at the Oregon Dept of Justice. That is a state agency, and one of their specific authorities is over consumer protection. If by some miracle they decide to take a look, they can bring in the feds if needed.....but that would be a really miniscule chance in you know where, with all of the criminal activity they are working these days.

Exactly The FBI isnt going to get involved unless they are called upon.

Wow, so is that our "Odin" in one of those screen grabs? I miss having that guy around here. I never knew he was into arcade games as well.

Lame. Its the powers that be not wanting PD to work, and they make it clear. I happen to know a few fine upstanding LEOs that know more than you and I. They are not lowest common denominator. You or your buddies ever save a life?
Doubtful.
Talk shit.
You good.

There are still a few options, none of them guaranteed. The feds are inundated with leads (real and unfounded) so it's hard to breakthrough to get someones attention with these matters.

The USPS says "If you’re a victim of financial crime and the U.S. Mail is involved, call Postal Inspectors at 1-877-876-2455 and local police". Maybe someone has corresponded via snail mail or sent payment the same way. If you don't get a legitimate response from them contact the USPSOIG .

Contact the Secret Service, (I know it seems odd).

"Today, Secret Service agents, professionals, and specialists work in field offices around the world to fight the 21st century’s financial crimes, which are increasingly conducted through cyberspace. These investigations continue to address counterfeit, which still undermines confidence in the U.S. dollar, but it is credit card fraud, wire and bank fraud, computer network breaches, ransomware, and other cyber-enabled financial crimes, that have become the focus of much of the Secret Service investigative work".

One has to be diligent and follow up with these agencies, eventually it will draw attention to someone just to escape the hounding from the victims.

https://twitter.com/sindhuyea/status/1395413490337210370

I've got a very good friend who's pretty high up in the secret service. I'll ask him about this whole thing and see what he says.

Otherwise, if everyone is so certain that no agency will ever go after this guy and nothing will happen to him because it's not enough money involved, then that seems like perfect justification to pay his warehouse a visit and make those games disappear. Who would charge you? Certainly not any federal agency by what you all are saying. If the Oregon DOJ comes knocking, you can just say that you had already paid for the games and you were just there to pick them up. You could even show proof of payment via PayPal, bank check, or however you all sent him money. Seems cut and dry to me. Let him prove you stole from him. Gonna be hard to do legally from his side.

How are there so many inmates convicted of fraud under 5 million already in federal prison camps? Fraudsters who committed crimes totalling more than 5 million can often be found in Federal Correctional Institutes (higher level). Most cases I read of people convicted of fraud were far under 5 million.

We just convicted an Orange County man in LA federal Court (central district) of committing fraud to 19 victims for a total between $250,000 up to 1.5 million last week. According to Central district media, he is facing up to 30 years. I keep explaining that my actual experiences are FAR DIFFERENT than what I'm reading here. Would it make sense to some that these 94 different districts, with 94 different US Attorney's, might actually prosecute differently? Would it make sense to some that maybe our central district prosecutes these types of crimes because their budget is much higher? I totally believe some victims were given the run around. I also know for a fact---LOOK IT UP-We just convicted this guy last week. So the 5 million mentioned, or whatever the total is, is BS. It may be true that a particular US Attorney has some policy in his/her district, but that isn't the normal.

I didn't say they were all bad, or all lowest common denominator. I said that the current climate is far more likely to push the good ones out than the bad. Especially with some of the questionable charges/convictions that cops have gotten in the last few years for doing what they're required to do on the job.

My point was that the good cops like your friends are being held back by what's going on and you seem to agree with me on that. You act like I said ACAB or some shit.
If you're a good cop who wants to do the right thing but are being held back by the anti-cop climate right now it is way more frustrating than being a shit head cop who is just there for a paycheck. The ones like your friends are going to get fed up at some point with being unable to do the job they signed up to do and will change jobs to somewhere that they can actually make a difference.

My brother attorney (who is ill) and never a criminal law attorney is no longer practicing law. I asked what our move would be if I was victim.

He'd call his friend an asst US attorney with the info we had assembled. Ask him how to proceed. If he didn't have a friend and we had info on various victims with a total near $220,000 we would find the right federal criminal attorney who has a great working relationship with their local US attorneys office. Hire them. Only pay for their initial contacts and he would then send this asst US attorney or whoever regular correspondence that's documented.

My brother attorney represented me directly after my conviction with regards to the Bureau of Prisons. He constantly sent letters to the proper authorities when I requested transfers to get into the 500 hour drug program. Always no. Until a new person replaced the guy that kept saying no. And then 60 inmates were allowed to sign waivers from 2 different prison camps to go up a level to Lompoc FCI to attend the drug program there. A year or two of NO until YES.

He would continue to apply pressure to law enforcement. Document everything you can. We both thought it goes into the NCIC (national crime info center) database which is one way to link the crimes. His comment was to the effect that how hard is it to convince law enforcement that a person is committing interstate fraud, wire fraud and money laundering while growing marijuana. The proceeds from marijuana sales can be complicated federally because it's still a schedule one drug with money laundering laws. When their mad, the feds seize stuff and make you fight to get it back. After they've broken you financially. They can be ruthless.

Last thought from a former pot guy. If I kept being dissuaded from law enforcement why they won't take a case I might have my attorney insinuate to the feds that the scammer must be a fukn rat who has a little protection from some local authorities. Wouldn't be the first time.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but i would guess many of those cases started with other factors involved. If this were a "sexier" theft such as bilking some poor old folks out of their life savings, or even more of a straight forward scam that was easier to prosecute, there might be more of a chance. Heck, maybe claim the fraudster kicked his neighbor's dog on the way to the bank.....and before you laugh at that comment, I can show you countless cases where people received a much harsher sentence for animal cruelty than the guy across the street got for beating up his neighbor. If you want to get the public opinion on your side and get someone to look at the case, involve animals or little children somehow !

I never say "never" in this world, but I did point out the reality of how likely it is to find anyone on a federal level willing to investigate or prosecute the case. There is always a chance a victim or group of victims can find the right person to talk to, but video games are a specialized field. I'm not saying the KLOV Scam buyers don't deserve the same protection under the law, but the truth is unless you find an investigator or prosecutor that is a collector, there is a significant effort that has to be undertaken to get them to understand the significance in what has been done. From the outside, they see a bunch of rich,
middle-aged guys that didn't get the video game they ordered, and they figure "cry me a river"...... Again., I am not saying it is right....I'm just saying it is reality in the world we are in right now. But with all of that said, I don't want to ever dissuade anyone from following up on any legal remedy that might have available to them. It's really the only viable option out there.

Careful, some Karens are super duper sensitive to any criticism of govt entities and you will be censored. Its a shame lawlessness is allowed at such a level.

Talked to my friend. The Secret Service would pursue this as it falls under their jurisdiction. Edit...... see my newest post below for updated info....

You need to be on the KLOV message board to make this offer.

I just PMd that post to a KLOV member who was victim, so let's see if that gets the ball rolling.

Posted in the KLOV forum. Hopefully it helps! Thanks for the tips

Lets get this prick

002E2B11-3F54-46CF-984F-8F25FB9E7A7C (resized).jpeg

Any updates from the KLOV thread?

Not much of anything. Some people scoffing at the idea of the secret service being of help, others explaining why they could be helpful. A little exploring the mystery of is the website Ars Technica a white supremecist video game publication or not. Very little going on publicly. Its a weird forum man, if that had happened here, there would be hundreds of pages of thread to read, but KLOV is a lot more low key.

The funny part is how the scammer used the classic scare technique to keep people from collaborating and sharing info. Just like jpoop… make everyone fear being excluded or punished if you talk.

He also used the typical scam tactic of "offering something good" to one person to raise the hopes of everyone else.

He offered a $4000 credit to a pinball company/distributor towards the balance owed to someone. Apparently the credit is good.

Yep to all of this. One guy was offered like 4k in credit at a local pinball distributor that was confirmed as legit credit. Maybe some sort of monetary settlement as well. Just a lot of horse crap overall

At this point I would get together with a few others who had been ripped off and send a "street level" collection agency to his warehouse.

Yeah that never works. Now you are in business with the “street level” collection agency for the rest of your life they own you.

Let’s face it - this guy who can barely string two coherent words together is a criminal mastermind and he’s gotten away with stealing tens of thousands of dollars and there will be no justice or recompense, “street level” or otherwise.

Idiots. Well, if you feel inclined, you can remind them that not only was my friend, the Secret Service member for the last 24 years, himself very interested in the case, he's the one who gave the advice on what to do, NOT ME! But hey, if these people want to let this lowlife keep their money and their games, and not seek any kind of justice on the back end, then fine. Let them sit on their thumbs and spin for all I care. And if that's what they'd rather do, then they never get to complain ever again about this whole scam because they're letting it happen and letting him get away with it.

Must be nice having enough money in life to lose tens of thousands of it to a random pothead from Oregon and not even chase it or him down...

I'm going under the assumption that you're not viewing that thread over on KLOV. And I completely get your reaction, but do realize there's just as much armchair quarterbacking going on from sideliners over there as there is here. I'm not following it closely enough to know all the players but most of that noise po poing any given avenue comes from the peanut gallery. There are a few folks over there trying to work the problem and I'm sure they are not only grateful for your information they are using it.

I'm with you on this, I had a similar reaction. Bakerhillpins is right though, plenty of armchair qb's over there too. There was only like 1 guy who was truly skeptical of the idea, I don't think he had any skin in the game, and there was a couple who were quick to point out his folley. Hopefully thats some sort of consolation. As I said, it seems like a lot of this stuff is going on out of the view of the public, so its certainly possible effected parties are thankful and/or pursing the use of your advice.

Oh, ok. That makes more sense. I figured the thread that was over there had been boiled down to just the ones who were victims of the scam. I didn't realize the thread was still populated by those who have no skin in the game. Besides, realistically, if only those that want some sort of restitution or justice served get involved and file criminal complaints, they're the only ones who are going to see anything come back to them, hopefully. Similar to that of a class action suit, you sit out, you don't collect.

New update today... one user said Steve actually had the gall to send a contract trying to get him to agree to $500/month repayment. Said he didn't bother with the contract but Steve did pay the first installment.

Imagine acting like such a cretin and then trying to bring contracts into this... it's just bizarre.

Could be an attempt to avoid criminal exposure… maybe he is getting some uncomfortable inquiries.

If he’s just late or delinquent paying you… that’s purely a civil collections issue…. Instead of outright wire fraud. Makes it harder to get LE interested.

It further protects the scammer from stronger attack vectors.