Fort Worth, TX
So when you play and the fuse blows. If the ball just sits in the shooter lane does the fuse blow.
Does it happen maybe when it hits a pop bumper or something specific?
(Topic ID: 77753)
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Klondike
Williams, 1971
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This SUCKS! I want my Klondike back.
With as clean as your machine looks, I would back off and start over. Do all your steppers move freely? Replay unit, Ball count unit, Match unit?
The fuse blow could just be because it is the wrong fuse. Hate to be chasing a problem that isnt there.
Quoted from Pafasa:This SUCKS! I want my Klondike back.
I told you to keep it. 
Wait when you see the finished pictures on mine. Even has a chrome Coin Door. 
Ken
This thread also has me missing my Klondike.
I agree with Pafasa. Chasing a short is one of the most tedious and time consuming things to troubleshoot. It all seems a bit redundant until you have gone through the machine and verified your mechanicals aren't froze up. Check your steppers and also look for any burnt coils. These are things that could also pop a fuse.
I'm not sure, it is the correct fuse as far as I can tell. How else could I check to see if it's the wrong fuse? Obviously don't want to over-fuse it either. I'm going to check the Jones plugs and then just plug it back in and see what happens if the ball sits in the shooter lane as Jeff suggested.
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:I told you to keep it. Wait when you see the finished pictures on mine. Even has a chrome Coin Door.
Ken
Rub it in! Rub it in!
I have sold other games but the only one so far that I will hunt for again is Klondike!
Quoted from dmklunk:The steppers occasionally arc when they run like an EOS switch would but I'm assuming this is normal.
Have you gone through the steppers? As long as they step with a solid stop at each step, you are ok. If they are slow/sluggish, you could in theory cause some other issues.
Quoted from Pafasa:This SUCKS! I want my Klondike back.
With as clean as your machine looks, I would back off and start over. Do all your steppers move freely? Replay unit, Ball count unit, Match unit?
Check, check, sorta check, and check.
The ball count unit seems a little sticky when I activate it manually but appears to be working ok. It says balls to play: 3 which is right, no?
Quoted from Pafasa:Have you gone through the steppers? As long as they step with a solid stop at each step, you are ok. If they are slow/sluggish, you could in theory cause some other issues.
See above.
Quoted from dmklunk:It says balls to play: 3 which is right, no?
There is a jumper in the head that will switch the game to 5-ball. Make that change and start a game. See if it goes to 5 balls! This will give the ball-count unit somewhat of a test.
The upper right pop bumper blew the fuse. Everything else worked, then I hit one of the pop bumpers (the upper right one) and it blew. It looks like one of the wires is hanging off the coil on the bottom right pop bumper: would this be the cause of the problem? I'm running out of fuses! And I can't get any more because I'm snowed in!
Here you go. I don't know how I missed the hanging wire before, but it's definitely not attached. I just wanted to make sure that this would cause the fuse to blow, as I don't want to risk blowing another fuse if that's definitely not the cause of the problem because I'm almost out of fuses and I don't have a circuit breaker yet... The loose wire is not on the same bumper that blew the fuse but I guess they're all wired together. The first pic is of the bumper that blew the fuse and the second is of the one with the loose wire.
Quoted from dmklunk:It looks like one of the wires is hanging off the coil on the bottom right pop bumper: would this be the cause of the problem?
yes most def if that wire touches any metal you could blow a fuse
Is that the left bottom pop bumper? The schematic says the red orange wire is correct for that pop bumper solder it on
where does that white wire that sneaks under that pop bumper go?
--Jeff
That wire IS your problem as it is sitting right on top of your ground braid. Just Solder it back to the right lug of the coil of the Pop Bumper and you will be set. 
Ken
Quoted from way2wyrd:where does that white wire that sneaks under that pop bumper go?
It probably goes to the lamp terminal.
Solder that red wire back to the empty lug and play your game!!!
Video please!
Quoted from Garrett:Ken, where in the h*ll did you find a brand new Klondike?
I think he made one!
Quoted from Garrett:Ken, where in the h*ll did you find a brand new Klondike?
Quoted from Pafasa:I think he made one!
OK OK GUYS!..GEEZZZZ!! I was not going to show pics yet as it is a work in progress but here are some teasers.
Yes the Coin Door is Chrome. Replaced Brown Plastic Shooter Bezel with a Chrome one and rebuilt all. Need to install my New Coin Door Flap. Parts should be in from PBR Wednesday for me to do a complete Pop Bumper Rebuild with Mylars installed. I just finished hand painting the Entire Big Black Tree a few minutes ago. Installed a round Mylar after the Kickout Hole so there will be no more damage done (this area was already dry for a couple days). It use to be a mess like the yucky one in the photo.
Score Motor was replaced with another, torn apart, all switches taken off and cleaned/adjusted and too much other stuff to talk about right now as I do not want to hijack this thread and will start another soon.
Ken
Klondike Pre Pics 001.JPG
Klondike Pre Pics 002.JPG
Klondike Pre Pics 004.JPG
More Klondike 002.JPG
More Klondike 004.JPG
So... Firstly, Ken, that's beautiful!
Second. I bought 5 15amp fuses and 5 10amp fuses. I already had blown 3 of the 15 amp trying to diagnose the problem. Then, I soldered that red wire back onto the bottom-right pop bumper. Put in the new fuse, everything seemed to work OK. Then I hit the right slingshot and it blew the fuse. Checked the wiring, everything looked OK. I didn't want to put in my last 15amp fuse -- because the previous 15amp fuse had blown for apparently no reason. So I put in a 10amp fuse of the same kind (I know, I know... But I wasn't going to waste my last 15 amp fuse). It ran OK for a little while -- I hit the middle pop bumper numerous times, and it worked fine. Then I hit the left pop bumper and it immediately blew. Any ideas what's going on? (I know, get a circuit breaker!) I obviously want to waste as little more fuses as possible! Nothing else looks wrong. Any thoughts or anywhere else I should look?
By the way, other than this weird electrical gremlin, everything else works perfectly for now so that's a plus!
Thanks,
Derek
Two more things to look at, that you might be overlooking.
First, fried Bell Chime Coils. Hitting a pop bumper or a sling shot score something, which also rings a chime.
Second, check for a fried coil on the 00-90 unit. Again, this is usually stepped with a particular score (usually 10 points).
One of the more common problems is a contact behind a rubber ring getting stuck closed (often snagged by a careless rag wiping). This locks on the 10 point relay which in turn locks on the Bell chime coil as well as the 00-90 units step up coil. If left too long, it burns up the coil(s).
Any of these coils can still work but may draw a ton of current ultimately blowing your fuse.
Yes, a 10 and 15 amp circuit breaker with aligator clips is a valuable EM service tool for just this reason.
Check all your wires again to the Slingshots,Pop bumpers, and Relays to them. Your Manual will help you identify all relays that go to these. My feeling is you have another broken wire. Williams are famous for them. Also make sure to gently tug on your wires with solder connections as well to make sure they are actually attached or ready to break off causing another problem.
Ken
Quoted from CactusJack:Yes, a 10 and 15 amp circuit breaker with aligator clips is a valuable EM service tool for just this reason.
Always wanted to buy one, but I keep solving my electrical problems sooner than I can put in an order.
One of these days I'll just buy one to have in my tool box for peace of mind.
Ken
Quoted from CactusJack:First, fried Bell Chime Coils. Hitting a pop bumper or a sling shot score something, which also rings a chime.
Ha! The bell chime coil appears to be fried. But I have heard it chime. Would it still work if it were fried?
I don't have another coil to replace that right now. Can I just remove it and tape off the wires to see if it works?
Thanks!!!
Derek
Quoted from Garrett:Ken, where in the h*ll did you find a brand new Klondike?
I think it used to be Pafasa ` s and EM-PINMAN just restored it. 
Quoted from dmklunk:Ha! The bell chime coil appears to be fried. But I have heard it chime. Would it still work if it were fried?
I don't have another coil to replace that right now. Can I just remove it and tape off the wires to see if it works?
You could always pull a wire off one of the coil lugs and test it with your MM or DMM. Set it to OHM's and if it reads under 5 it is shot.
Ken
Quoted from dmklunk:Ken, just test the coil by pulling off a wire and putting one lead on each side of the coil with the DMM set to ohms, is that what you're saying?
yes
Quoted from dmklunk:OK, give me just a few minutes to check it out and get back...
If it is shot, can I just remove the coil and tape off both wires in order to get the machine to work properly until I can order a new coil?
Thanks
Derek
Actually, you can just unsolder the single wire going to one lug and tape it off - no need to remove the coil. And leave the other wire(s) connected as it chains to the other two coils.
Don't forget to look at the 00-90 (Match) unit in back. If the 10 point chime is burnt, the step up coil back there is probably melted too. Again, you can just remove the one single wire from one of the coil lugs and tape it off so it won't touch anything.
Maybe I said it was the chime coil and maybe it's not. Here's a pic of the coil itself. I don't see another coil unless you're talking about the little chime coil below it. So you're saying that if I tape off the wire that I currently disconnected, it should have the same effect as removing the coil?
Thanks!!!
Derek
Quoted from dmklunk:Here's a pic of the coil itself.
That is toast but may work and be causing a short. Best to be safe. Disconnect both wires and tape off until your new coil arrives.
Ken
IT LIVES!!!! I disconnected the one and it fixed the problem! Now just a few more things to do in it to get it back to really good shape. I will post better pictures once it is all fixed up and ready to go.
Thanks so much to all of you for the help!!!
Derek
Quoted from way2wyrd:Great news!! Have fun playing.
-Jeff
Thanks again for all the help! Wouldn't have been able to do it without you guys.
Quoted from dmklunk:IT LIVES!!!! I disconnected the one and it fixed the problem!
Great Job Derek!
Your on your way to becoming an EM technician. 
Ken
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:Your on your way to becoming an EM technician.
I am nowhere close but I am learning a lot with your help. I do find that they are much simpler than solid state machines.
Yeah, I'm younger and getting into them. I'm a little weary about posting my age on a public forum. I don't mind telling you and other Pinsiders but just the thought that some creepo can pull it up and see it 10 years later. 
Yeah, maybe I'm weird about that. I'll PM you though, I wanted to ask you about something else anyway.
Also... Anyone know off-hand what type of coil is for the match unit bell thing that I posted a picture of above? It is fried to the point that I can't even see what the label is anymore. I didn't see it in the manual although I could've missed it. Just figured it would be good to get it on order awhile.
And Garrett, I think you had mentioned before that the lock relay coil isn't necessary -- I have it rigged up so that it is always pulled in as you suggested -- if I'm ordering other stuff from Marco, etc., is it worth ordering that lock relay coil or not? I'm thinking I should probably at least get one installed. It's looking funky down there because those wires are taped off and not attached to anything.
Quoted from dmklunk:Also... Anyone know off-hand what type of coil is for the match unit bell thing that I posted a picture of above? It is fried to the point that I can't even see what the label is anymore. I didn't see it in the manual although I could've missed it.
Page 6 in your Manual. Coil A22-550
Ken
Quoted from dmklunk:So... Firstly, Ken, that's beautiful!
Slow response by me........Thanks Derek.
Ken
Awesome! The "chime unit" is to the right side of your backbox as you look at it from the back. There is just one chime bar and one coil. This may be pretty fried too.
Seeing how fried your match unit coil is, it makes me think that there is probably still something sticking on the playfield. Something definitely stuck on to cook that coil so badly. Check all your playfield scoring switches. Most likely the rollover button switches in the upper arch area. They can get pretty sticky.
Quoted from Pafasa:The "chime unit" is to the right side of your backbox as you look at it from the back. There is just one chime bar and one coil.
I do see it but it is not fried at all and works great...
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