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(Topic ID: 132763)

KISS pro at 3k plays, now 10k plays


By Chrizg

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 79 posts
  • 43 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by sven
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 79 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

Disc is still putting black marks all over and not 'wearing in'. Mylar coming up in the middle from ball drops out of the head and some wear starting on the scoop. Not complaining, just a FYI for other owners.

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#2 5 years ago

How in the world do you already have 3k games played?

#3 5 years ago

Is that wear at the scoop and actual chunk out of the wood or just a black mark?

#4 5 years ago

Mylar an easy fix and at 3000 plays already & it will pay for itself in no time. Ive been asking when someone will make a scoop protector as this game is in dire need of one.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Leeps:

How in the world do you already have 3k games played?

Sited I would imagine.

#6 5 years ago

Oh Cliffy!

Assuming that's on location- congrats on the traffic!

How long has it been in place?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Leeps:

How in the world do you already have 3k games played?

Its obviously a location game.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Its obviously a location game.

I assumed that obviously. But still seems like a ton of plays with Kiss just being released.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Leeps:

But still seems like a ton of plays with Kiss just being released.

At $1 a game, it won't be too long before that game is actually earning...

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

At $1 a game, it won't be too long before that game is actually earning...

What IS break even on a Stern Pro? 10k games, 15k games?

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

What IS break even on a Stern Pro? 10k games, 15k games?

I'd have to ask James where the numbers fall nowadays, but if you have to give 25% to the location owner, you could use 6,000 plays as a starting point.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd have to ask James where the numbers fall nowadays, but if you have to give 25% to the location owner, you could use 6,000 plays as a starting point.

Is that the going rate? I was thinking 50%.

But, yes, at 25%, that KISS is off to a great start! Partly could justify the $15 Cliffy

13
#13 5 years ago

My games on route get hammered and are at .25 cent per play so it takes me a bit longer to pay them off. This one has been out for 3 weeks. So if you want to test a new mod/product, my games are a good test spot.

https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/up-down-des-moines-des-moines-ia-united-states

https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/up-down-kansas-city-kansas-city-mo-united-states

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#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

My games on route get hammered and are at .25 cent per play so it takes me a bit longer to pay them off. This one has been out for 3 weeks. So if you want to test a new mod/product, my games are a good test spot.
https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/up-down-des-moines-des-moines-ia-united-states
https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/up-down-kansas-city-kansas-city-mo-united-states

.25 play with brand new Sterns?

Hell, I'd play WWE for .25 a credit!

Please stop everything and relocate to NC!

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

My games on route get hammered and are at .25 cent per play so it takes me a bit longer to

Wow, new sterns are $1 here. Too rich for my blood.

Edit: 10/25/2015 apparently $1 per or 3 for $2. Didn't realize the discount existed. Initial comment was moreso in regards to how cheap $.25 per was, not a ding against my local guy. Thankfully, my cheap-assedness was called out for all to see! ha.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd have to ask James where the numbers fall nowadays, but if you have to give 25% to the location owner, you could use 6,000 plays as a starting point.

This is the wrong way to look at it. The machine is not instantly worth $0 so you are actually making money the second you get one play.

#17 5 years ago

I need to get down to the Up/Down in KC.

#18 5 years ago

during the 3k plays was it ever shopped often? balls changed ever?
also, 3k plays doesn't mean 3k paid credits unless all replays are shut off.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This is the wrong way to look at it. The machine is not instantly worth $0 so you are actually making money the second you get one play.

When I was an op, we always looked to the break even point.

Games would get stolen, catch fire, establishment would suddenly close down and games disappear, vandalism (if the backglass and coindoor got destroyed on a few year old game, it went into the dumpster) - you could never count on any value other than the last time you emptied the coin box.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from silver_spinner:

during the 3k plays was it ever shopped often? balls changed ever?
also, 3k plays doesn't mean 3k paid credits unless all replays are shut off.

Cleaned with rubbing ach about 10 times due the the black mess from the spinning disc and waxed twice. I do not change balls out unless they are bad. I have balls with 10k games on them that are fine. You don't need to replace them every 1k or less plays as some suggest..

#21 5 years ago

.25 a play is crazy! I couldn't afford to do it. They are too expensive. Glad its going well!

#22 5 years ago

The machines really cost the same, it doesn't matter if it's a 1 dollar per play or a quarter. The costs changes when adding up maintenance and repairs. The power is the same as long as machine is turned on. I have seen both sides of price for use. Please read below.

I have a friend in the car wash business who keeps his price 50 cents but the time us slightly shorter than the competition at 75 cents. The other place at 75 cents allows enough time to spray soap and rinse off properly but the public does not see it as value so they go to the 50 cent place and spend a dollar as they can't get it finished so they have to put in two more quarters.

I wish this discussion of play price to value was more of a topic. It's interesting to know what other feel. I have even had to remove some older Bally pins or even an EM from location as people still will drop a quarter into the old pin vs the brand new Stern. I have tried to explain cost of new pin vs what older pins cost and that's why the play differences cost doesn't work well for common players.

The new card swipe system helps and dollar bill acceptors as I want all my new pins on a dollar per play but when I experiment with lower play the coin box actually goes up and very seldom is lower but I have more play and wear and tear. The machine still cost me 4700 for the pro regardless even more if I have to add dollars bill acceptor or card swipe system. Here is a few pics of the card system on a TWD pro at the Space Needle in Gatlinburg TN

It just seems easier to spend more if you are not putting a coin in the door. I like the idea of pay once to enter and all machines are free but it's impossible for location play and splitting the cashbox.

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#23 5 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

..... The power is the same as long as machine is turned on....

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Pins draw way more power when being played. I think they surge to 4-5 amps every few seconds when played but never that much in attract mode, especially with sound off. I cant play more than 4 games on a home circuit that is 15 amps or the relay blows. However I can plug 20 games in onthe same circuitand in attract mode the circuit does not trip.

#24 5 years ago

I love posts like this! Discussing the economy of machines out in the wild, how they were intended to be. Discussions like this must have happened all the time back in the day. These are big toys that were designed to make money, not remain in perfect condition over 20 years.

The duel of fates that resides now is also interesting. A game that inherently causes wear and tear vs. collectors trying to keep them mint. So many other collectors have it easy. They just stick stuff in shelves. But pinball begs to be played. That's why it's so amazing.

25 cents a game is too low! Those are 1983 prices!

#25 5 years ago

Chrizg is putting it out there. You gotta love that!

#26 5 years ago

$2 per play here in Aus! and people wonder why we buy our own and keep them in house.

-16
#27 5 years ago

Let's put up some pics of some WOZ playfields with massive chips coming off the playfield after low plays. Which by the way is quite a prevalent problem.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

$2 per play here in Aus! and people wonder why we buy our own and keep them in house.

At 8k for a pro - I'd probably just pay the 2 bucks a play!!

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#29 5 years ago

Hmmmmm go to this thread if your thinking this is ordinary - WOZ after 4000 plays. A little worse

#30 5 years ago

Where we play league the Kiss is $1/game or $2.50/3 games. I looked at the audits about 2 weeks after unboxing. It showed over 700 plays but only around $450 in earnings. However, there are about 30 pins to choose from at this location so take that into consideration.

#31 5 years ago

What is important is the overall revenue strategy for the business. If a bar or tavern the owner may be using the pins as bait or lead in attractions. At the same time prices on food and/or drinks may be nudged up a bit while tge pin play cost is low. The only way to really know 25 cents is too low is if it was strictly a pinball revenue stream. Say like if routed to a sitting area of a car repair shop or laundrymat. Then 25 cents seems incapable of turning a profit. In a zetting where the business owner is the pin operator also, things are very different in tge overall profit plan.

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#32 5 years ago

WOZ after 4k plays. A little worse.

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#33 5 years ago
Quoted from John1210:

WOZ after 4k plays. A little worse.

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Wow.

Thats a pretty good mark. I'm surprised that even ops don't take the time to put some protection on their machines before putting them out there. You would think with the resale market any preventative things you can do the better.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=303

This seems like the best money you could spend.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

Wow.
Thats a pretty good mark. I'm surprised that even ops don't take the time to put some protection on their machines before putting them out there. You would think with the resale market any preventative things you can do the better.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=303
This seems like the best money you could spend.

You'd think the manufacturers would put out a product of a quality that wouldn't chip like. These are 9k dollar commercial machines. This is ridiculous.

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#35 5 years ago

John, I've got no issue with you pointing out these issues, but why the hell on this thread? Start a "Woz at 4k plays" thread if you want.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

Where we play league the Kiss is $1/game or $2.50/3 games. I looked at the audits about 2 weeks after unboxing. It showed over 700 plays but only around $450 in earnings. However, there are about 30 pins to choose from at this location so take that into consideration.

Do you guys know how the audits work on KISS? I like watching when the OP takes collections or when I update the code for him and sneak a peek at audits. Is "Paid Plays" or "Paid Credits" (can't remember which it says on screen) mean exactly that? After almost two weeks the KISS showed 856 "paid plays" but if you put in $1 and played and got a replay would that count as 1 Paid Play or two?

Since I'm not the OP i have to kinda pretend i hit the wrong button to scroll through audits while the OP is around. For the last two weeks the KISS earned $596 (I think - or $592) and was second top earner. This was at $1/game $2/3 games. People don't seem to care what price the games are at but here in SF everything costs a lot so pinball is a cheap fun thing to with your $5-10 beer

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

Wow, new sterns are $1 here. Too rich for my blood.

For real? If there's 3 plays for $2 set up, or one game a dollar, I can get about 45minutes to an hour of entertainment out of $2. Can't imagine too many other entertainment options giving that much value.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from silver_spinner:

during the 3k plays was it ever shopped often? balls changed ever?
also, 3k plays doesn't mean 3k paid credits unless all replays are shut off.

Is this a serious question for a routed machine?

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#39 5 years ago
Quoted from John1210:

WOZ after 4k plays. A little worse.

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How about my Metallica at 2900 plays

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#40 5 years ago

Wow.

That has to suck seeing that for the first time.

chris

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

How about my Metallica at 2900 plays

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That is just terrible....you should consider selling me that Metallica at a considerably discounted rate.

I will be awaiting the PM.

Thank you, and have a nice damn day.

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#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

How about my Metallica at 2900 plays

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Forgot to add, Stern is fixing this with a replacement field.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from genex:

Do you guys know how the audits work on KISS? I like watching when the OP takes collections or when I update the code for him and sneak a peek at audits. Is "Paid Plays" or "Paid Credits" (can't remember which it says on screen) mean exactly that? After almost two weeks the KISS showed 856 "paid plays" but if you put in $1 and played and got a replay would that count as 1 Paid Play or two?
Since I'm not the OP i have to kinda pretend i hit the wrong button to scroll through audits while the OP is around. For the last two weeks the KISS earned $596 (I think - or $592) and was second top earner. This was at $1/game $2/3 games. People don't seem to care what price the games are at but here in SF everything costs a lot so pinball is a cheap fun thing to with your $5-10 beer

My understanding is that credits played which were attained by high score, matches, and by pushing the credit button inside the coin door do not count towards total paid credits. That is why earnings is always substantially lower than total games played.

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#44 5 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

Wow, new sterns are $1 here. Too rich for my blood.

Actually they are 3 for $2 after the first 2 weeks of a brand NEW game coming out and i never understand where people can complain for .66 per play. you do realize that with inflation this is less than it cost you to play in the mid 90s. The great part is these are the same people that complain pinball on location is crappy and poorly maintained. You want to know why pinball is dying on location... Cheap asses that won't pay less than inflation based rates from when they were a kid. I really get tired of the same shortsighted BS. 1 buck per play is cheap on location for well maintained and brand new games!!!!

#45 5 years ago

Question....is inflation historically outpacing wage growth or not?

You're providing a luxury, not a necessity, and as such, are going to be the first place that people cut corners.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

Forgot to add, Stern is fixing this with a replacement field.

Is JJP fixing the mess on their playfield too?

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

John, I've got no issue with you pointing out these issues, but why the hell on this thread? Start a "Woz at 4k plays" thread if you want.

Fair enough.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Actually they are 3 for $2 after the first 2 weeks of a brand NEW game coming out and i never understand where people can complain for .66 per play. you do realize that with inflation this is less than it cost you to play in the mid 90s. The great part is these are the same people that complain pinball on location is crappy and poorly maintained. You want to know why pinball is dying on location... Cheap asses that won't pay less than inflation based rates from when they were a kid. I really get tired of the same shortsighted BS. 1 buck per play is cheap on location for well maintained and brand new games!!!!

Some of it too is that things with the exception of woz and the hobbit haven't really progressed. Tz and af was hot shit when they came out to joe public. Now, pinball looks really old if you set it next to a star wars pod.

#49 5 years ago

yes because i clean mine weekly and they never show ware bcuz i keep on top of things. ive changed rubber on one of my taf 4 times this year alone. balls do get scratches and become dull, that leads to ware on the pf , rubber, scoops, targets.
when he was showing how much ware it had at 3k, knowing if its been shopped at all during that is a huge difference. i had a potc that paid itself off in 6 months. one of the the tops tourney i had on it went up to almost a grand in 6 weeks. that thing had major play. i sold it after 2 years and 3 locations and you could not tell it was played on location except for the ramp had a crack from a screw i tightened too much. i had to replace the tourtuga decal more than once as well.
kept it shopped, could pass for the infamous term "huo".
the lower price you have a game on location and the easier its set up, the more maintenance it will get at low cost. imagine someone puting in 25 cents and playing for 2 hours winning free games and beating the heck out of the game.
it may get way way more plays at a lower price, but more plays means more hands on work, money in parts, and time involved for the op.

but if you have it for 25 cents and dont keep it fresh looking, and if people still play it, thats a lucky scenario for an op. here they call us out on it if a game starts to get blown out and wont keep playing unless all functions work 100%.

Quoted from vdojaq:

Is this a serious question for a routed machine?

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