KISS Pinball 79


By Torso718

9 months ago


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  • 256 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 31 minutes ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 256 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
#1 9 months ago

Hello! I recently bought a restored Bally KISS pinball and when I got it home I plugged everything in and turned it on but it doesn't seem to be in attract mode. The score and high score flash on the numbers screen (Along with a loud hum noise) yet ALL of the lights on the playfield are lit up steadily instead of flashing. I put a credit on the machine and push the credit button and everything works except for the lights. They stay on so you don't know what to shoot for. When the ball goes over the rollovers at the top the lights just stay on. It scores the points but the lights stay on. Also, the gate on the right outlane only opens half way sometimes. And only the first two letters of the logo light up and don't flash. Everything just stays on. Thanks to anyone that can help me.
I hope I posted this in the right place. If not I apologize in advance.

-1
#2 9 months ago

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

I would try reseating connectors before moving on to more in depth troubleshooting.

#3 9 months ago

What happens with the lighting in test mode? Do they ALL flash?

#4 9 months ago

No, all of the lights just stay on and do not flash in test mode.

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#5 9 months ago

I re-seated all four connectors on the Lamp Driver board. Nothing. All lights still coming on.

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#6 9 months ago

In the restoration process were the original Bally connectors replaced?

#7 9 months ago

I'm not sure. I just brought the game home yesterday and the guy that restored it told me that he played it with no issues just before I picked it up.

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from Jimmyd044:

In the restoration process were the original Bally connectors replaced?

They look like the original. I will post more pics.

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#9 9 months ago

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#10 9 months ago

I would try turning power off to the pin and reseating the connectors on the MPU.

#11 9 months ago

Along with the previous suggestion, make sure everything is properly grounded. Power outlet, grounding braid is connected to backbox, circuit board screws firmly connected to backbox (are those new screws?) etc..

#12 9 months ago

Ok, I reseated all 4 connectors on the MPU and checked the grounds on the board and the braided ground to the head. Still not it.

#13 9 months ago

My first question is... is that a replacement lithium battery on the MPU board, if so How old is it? I would buy the concept that the person restoring it wanted to keep it original, However the caps on power board look ancient as well.

If those caps on the power board are original then they need to be replaced.
As well as getting that Lithium battery of the MPU board and installing an off the board option (battery pack on the inside of the back box with wires running to the board)

On board original batteries are responsible for damaging 95% of the bally/stern MPU boards of this vintage.

#14 9 months ago

The person that restored it replaced the MPU and it had that lithium battery on it. I will definitely get that changed. Thank you. I seem to think it's not a problem with any of the boards (then again what do I know). Maybe the harness going to the Lamp Driver has a loose wire or a bad connection. The reason I say this is that I can play an entire game without any errors EXCEPT the lights being on continuously. I'm going to disconnect 1 harness at a time on the lamp driver and check each wire. I will touch base when I have finished. If anyone has any other suggestions please feel free to tell. I've only waited 30 years to own a KISS machine and this problem is killing me!
Also, my animation board does not work. Do they still make them and can I get one somewhere?

#15 9 months ago

On the Lamp Driver board, you remove the input connectors, on the left side, but allow the right side outputs to remain connected do all of the controlled lamps remain on?

Yes, there is a replacement for the Aux lamp driver board, but it is better to resolve your always on controlled lamp problem first.

#16 9 months ago

those connectors don't look like they have the rejection keys in them. careful they are plugged in corretly !!!!

Also it's hard to tell if the lamp driver board has a screw fastening / grounding it.(perhaps one in upper right)

#17 9 months ago

Ok, cool. Thanks guys!

#18 9 months ago

The connectors on the lamp driver board look correctly oriented.

BTW, you mention all lamps are stuck on, but I count a dozen that are off in your picture.

Quoted from minnesota13:

On the Lamp Driver board, you remove the input connectors, on the left side, but allow the right side outputs to remain connected do all of the controlled lamps remain on?

+1

#19 9 months ago

Nice looking game. KISS was my 1st machine as well. Good luck !!

#20 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

The connectors on the lamp driver board look correctly oriented.
BTW, you mention all lamps are stuck on, but I count a dozen that are off in your picture.

+1

The guy that sold it to me said there were some bulbs that needed replaced and assured me that the Holders (lack of a better term) were good. I'm pretty sure that the lamps that would not light in "game over" mode would not light during gameplay either.

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

On the Lamp Driver board, you remove the input connectors, on the left side, but allow the right side outputs to remain connected do all of the controlled lamps remain on?
Yes, there is a replacement for the Aux lamp driver board, but it is better to resolve your always on controlled lamp problem first.

Ok, THIS is what I get when I unplug the 2 connectors on the LEFT side of the lamp board.

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#22 9 months ago

And here is the RIGHT side unplugged and the left side plugged in.

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#23 9 months ago

Here is a pic when only the TOP connectors are unplugged from the lamp board.

Lamp Board Top unplugged (resized).jpg

#24 9 months ago

And finally, these are the BOTTOM connectors unplugged while the top are plugged in.

Lamp Board Bottom unplugged (resized).jpg

#25 9 months ago

Initial thoughts since the controlled lamps are not stuck on with the inputs to the lamp driver board removed are that the lamp driver board is likely OK.

Are the controlled lamps LEDs by any chance?

Can you show a picture of the connectors on the transformer rectifier board.

With all connectors in place, go into test mode for the controlled lamps to determine if they will cycle on and off.

#26 9 months ago

The controlled lamps are not LED. When I open the coin door and press the red button 1 time it should test the lamps, correct? When I do this all of the lights in 1st picture stay on. Nothing flashes. I'll show more pics.

#27 9 months ago

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#28 9 months ago

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#29 9 months ago

That is the updated power rectifier board, have you tested voltage on it?

#30 9 months ago

I did not test it because it played flawless before I picked it up and plays well now except for the lights staying on.

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from Torso718:

I did not test it because it played flawless before I picked it up and plays well now except for the lights staying on.

Since you mentioned a loud hum when you turned yours on...its probably a billion to 0 shot, but make sure all of your
connectors to the display panels are seated properly and check the Sustain Adj on the sound assembly (if you have the
manual, its on page 30, labeled RT 2. Don't ask me why, but just for the heck of it, I turned mine a little clockwise,
just to see what it did. I flipped the machine on and got the loudest hum, with the lights on.

I didn't try and play it though cause I turned the machine off instantly.

I turned that RT 2 back a little counter clockwise, and my machine was back to normal.

Like I said, probably won't help, but who knows?

Doug

#32 9 months ago

Thanks Doug. I will try that when I get home.

#33 9 months ago

Looking at the logic, I think you might have an open circuit in one of the connectors at the MPU board or Lamp driver board on what's known as the "Lamp Strobe #1" signal.

If you wiggle the J1 connector on the MPU board or J4 connector on the Lamp Driver board, does anything happen to the lit lamps?

If you have a multimeter, try checking continuity between the following:
MPU board Connector J1 pin 11 to the Lamp Driver Board Connector J4 pin 13

By the way have you tried swapping/replacing any of the lamps that are not coming on to see if those lamps are simply blown or if there's some other issue?

#34 9 months ago

No, but I will do that. I was going to order some bulbs regardless. Do I go with the #47's?

#35 9 months ago

I've had some nagging problems with my Kiss before but was able to remedy all of them. Today it is 100%.

If your lamps are on but do not strobe during test mode, the first thing you need to do is to replace all the contacts in the MPU connectors. In addition, you need to replace all the rest of the connectors too.

Most-likely it is MPU connector J1 as mentioned earlier. But don't take the easy way out and attempt to reseat them and then give up or just rebuild the one that is currently giving you problems or you will be revisiting another connector-related issue in the future. Reseating usually doesn't work if the connector is shot. If it does work it's just a temporary rig that won't last.

Even though the person you bought this machine from claims it was "restored", from the pictures it looks like he only replaced the bare minimum of stuff he needed to get it up and running. The one thing he did that does look good was to replace the rectifier board with a nice aftermarket one. Originally this was the weak link with Kiss.

Here's the not-so-secret "secret" to getting old Ballys like this running reliable and not have to mess around with it again.

Replace ALL the connectors with brand-new inserts. After 40+ years they are always shot. Marginal at best.

Until you bite the bullet and replace all the connectors you will be pizzing in the wind trying to fix this thing. Don't waste your time buying anything else until you rebuild the connectors.

Here's a place where you can buy the stuff to rebuild all your connectors including the crimper tool:

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

It takes a little practice to get good at re-terminating the connectors but after doing a few you'll get the hang of it.

#36 9 months ago

It's possible that the original MPU board was rotten from battery corrosion.
It can creep up into the connector plugs!
I had an Eight Ball that had horrible female connector pins. Replaced them and everything worked fine.
Get a light and magnifying glass and look closely at the pins. Mine were green and furry!!!
Check the bottom left MPU plug first.

#37 9 months ago

Ok, I came home and immediately checked some of the bulbs that were allegedly blown or burnt out. Turns out the bulbs were NOT bad. I took a good bulb from behind the back glass and put it in the socket of the 80000 that was not lit. It did not light. I took the bulb that was in the 80000 socket and put it in a socket behind the back glass and it lit up. Did the same thing with the left out lane and the letter K bulb just above it and got the same result. This was done by turning the game off every time I changed a bulb. So as far as I know at least 3 or more of the lights not lit were NOT the bulbs. I hope this will shed some light on things to those who know machines unlike myself.

By the way, this really means a lot that so many people are taking the time to help someone who knows nothing about working on these machines. I've waited 30 years to own this machine and can't wait to get it fixed!

#38 9 months ago

Changing bulbs isn't going to fix it. That's the least of your problems.

#39 9 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Changing bulbs isn't going to fix it. That's the least of your problems.

Very true Gatecrasher. Quench asked if I tried swapping/replacing any of the lamps that are not coming on to see if those lamps are simply blown.

#40 9 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Here's the not-so-secret "secret" to getting old Ballys like this running reliable and not have to mess around with it again.
Replace ALL the connectors with brand-new inserts. After 40+ years they are always shot. Marginal at best.

Think you need to heed the advise of Gatecrasher and pick up some connectors, corresponding pins and a decent crimper and go to town. If you have even marginal mechanical / electrical skills, should not take you but a few hours to perform the work.
Suggest you reflow the boards at the same time if it appears they have not been done in the past.

While your doing board work (if you are decent at de-soldering and soldering) You should consider replacing the caps, they appear to be original vintage and do not get better with age. Also cut out the back up battery and install a NVRAM.

It sucks that you have to go through this work for a pin you just acquired that was "restored" but when you're done it should be about bulletproof, and you will have a great sense of accomplishment when you fire up the machine!

I had some lighting and display problems recently on my Hardbody, and as soon as I replaced the connectors, problem solved! Other problems existed, but my lighting and display issues were gone.

Suggest this thread for more tips/ tricks and valuable suggestions:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

#41 9 months ago

Thanks Atari, I will indeed listen to the "oh wise one" Mr Gatecrasher. He seems to know his stuff along with so many others here. I replaced connectors on a Gorgar once. I hope it will be similar. The white ones you can actually see through and possibly detect but those brown ones are different.

#42 9 months ago

I don't know everything but I've been in your exact shoes on this particular pin and many others from the era.

Kiss is unique in several ways. I had a baffling problem that for the life of me couldn't figure out. It turned out to be the auxiliary lamp driver board which controls the "k-I-S-S" on the back box. It would play great for a while and then reek havoc with the entire machine after it warmed up a while. But fixing all the connectors was the first step to solving the problem. As long as there is the possibility that some aren't making contact (or are marginal) you really can't get to the bottom of what's going on... and these machines always need new inserts. You can probably get away without doing the displays if they all work but the rest need replaced. Your rectifier board has already been switched to the newer style so it should be OK.

You'll need the crimper from Big Daddy and a bunch of .100 & .156 connector inserts. You will also need a small screwdriver to remove the old inserts and a wire stripper to prepare the wires for the new inserts to be crimped. If you did the Gorgar you shouldn't have too much of a problem. It's just a little tedious but well-worth the effort.

#43 9 months ago

Awesome! that was my next question.....what do I need? I have regular wire splicer/crimpers and the micro screwdriver set. I will order the inserts and begin as soon as they come in. Should I replace the connector housing too? I ALSO need that auxiliary lamp driver board. I was calling it an animator board by mistake. The pictures below are the ones that the guy posted when selling this machine. They seem really identical to the first picture that I posted in this thread. You guys be the judge and tell me whether he knew something was wrong or not.

Screenshot_20170209-153121 (resized).jpg

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#44 9 months ago

Also I found THIS. a wire broken from the Knocker in the bottom. Don't know if that has anything to do with anything other than triggering the knocker.

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#45 9 months ago

I got a ratcheting crimper as described in this thread for "trifurcon" connectors .... amazon has a great price too IMO https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ratchet-crimping-tool-25#post-593034

big daddy has the header set on ebay without a minimum order (aka $22,000 shipping ) ebay.com link » Mpu Connector Repair Kit For Bally Stern Pinball Machines

check the knocker coil to see if it's shorted , the wire look cut

#46 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you wiggle the J1 connector on the MPU board or J4 connector on the Lamp Driver board, does anything happen to the lit lamps?

What's the result from this?

#47 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

What's the result from this?

Nothing happens. I wiggled the connectors and wiggled the wires going into them.

#48 9 months ago

I ordered Big Daddy's MPU Connector Repair Kit for Bally/Stern. Arrival is Monday. I wanted to work on it this weekend. I guess patience is a virtue.

Quoted from jclguru:

Since you mentioned a loud hum when you turned yours on...its probably a billion to 0 shot, but make sure all of your
connectors to the display panels are seated properly and check the Sustain Adj on the sound assembly (if you have the
manual, its on page 30, labeled RT 2. Don't ask me why, but just for the heck of it, I turned mine a little clockwise,
just to see what it did. I flipped the machine on and got the loudest hum, with the lights on.
I didn't try and play it though cause I turned the machine off instantly.
I turned that RT 2 back a little counter clockwise, and my machine was back to normal.
Like I said, probably won't help, but who knows?
Doug

The sound is still there.Tried messing with both but it didn't affect the noise at all. When the HIGH SCORE shows it's louder. When the PLAYER SCORE shows it's not as loud. When it's in between scores there is no noise at all.

#49 9 months ago
Quoted from Torso718:

When the HIGH SCORE shows it's louder. When the PLAYER SCORE shows it's not as loud. When it's in between scores there is no noise at all.

I wonder if the sound board or speaker wires are picking up some induction from the displays signal. The hum being related to the score displayed is very curious to me.

#50 9 months ago

All the boards are grounded through screws going to the brackets going to the metal on this game right? As far as the hum goes, are all mounting screws in on the sound board? I would think that could possibly cause a hum

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