I agree that new playfields should have a chance to cure and dry for at least a month before playing. Leaving the glass off for a week is a good idea. On older SAM system games with the transformer in the lower cabinet you could just leave the game turned on for a few days and the heat generated would help cure the wood. On the new Spike games with the transformer in the backbox there is almost no heat in the lower cabinet so leaving the glass off for awhile is a very good idea.

Maybe you should have quoted his whole post instead of only the part that would benefit your statement. You know the part where he specifically mentions that Metallica.

I saw that but thought it was a different game. I apologize for any confusion to you both. That being said, I have to agree that Stern playfields are definitely manufactured to a lower standard than previous Bally/Williams/Data East/Sega games. I've seen machines with 20 years of play that don't have that kind of wear and there is simply no excuse for it.

Have to disagree. I have several new Sterns on location and am amazed how well they hold up. I've restored plenty of Bally Williams games and the wood wears just the same. Just about every Addams Family chair scoop hole is blown out, every Monster Bash scoop hole gets blown out, every Attack From Mars scoop hole gets blown out, etc, etc. the only fair way to compare would be to put a new Stern and a new old Bally game side by side and see how they wear with exactly the same amount of play. I'll bet they would wear at exactly the same rate.

Stern playfields are still made by the same company that made the Bally/Williams/Data East/Sega games years ago.

Same wood, same inserts, same silkscreen, same clearcoats.

You see the same wear on every game ever made.

DiamondPlate, Tuff Coat, whatever.....they have never found a playfield coating that is harder than a steel ball.

Here is Diamondplate vs steel ball, impressed?:

worn_MM.jpg

worn_congo.jpg

How did the steel ball wear the art off under the slings on MM?

The wood grain is very nice.

Here is Tuffcoat vs steel ball:

xenon_wear.jpg

046.jpg

Not all playfield processes through the years have been the same. The early 80's era were exceptionally bad.

Most of the 80s Williams had almost no topcoat at all.

Ever seen a good Comet or F14?

Even the nicest original MMs all have wear through the Blue Knight.

blue_knight_wer.jpg

That's why they were protected by Mylar. Topcoat does help. More is better for wear.

again facts trump feelings or romanticized feelings of the past. Everyone always thinks williams was better. The facts are that they where just ok in a time when the competition was worse. Stern is now better and has made better games than williams ever has. Its just that nostalgia overcomes common sense.

This is subjective at best, and incorrect at worst.

Stern has nothing to compare to most of my Williams.

They have all the good Williams talent and they have fewer out of box problems than Williams ever did.

Is AC/DC better than AFM? That can be argued.

What makes a williams better? Over complicated mechs that break and rarely work on location? Or is it the countless duds released one after the other in the 90's sure you like them but most of these games FAILED epic fashion on route. TZ junk on route. CV trash they couldn't sell for 2700 close out. I could go on and on. People will always think williams was better but the best games they made where in the 90's in a span of 9 years and look where they are now GONE. So those games that where so awesome for those 9 years got them how far?

Everyone in every fashion of life always thinks yester year was better. News flash it likely was not better. The human mind hold onto memories in two forms the worst and the best never the mundane so keep that in mind.

Vid we are barking up the wrong tree because 90% of these guys only know what they remember or played and whats in their house now. Most of them never had to deal with the MASSIVE AMOUNT of issue williams games had because they where overly complex. They didnt get called on route to fix TZ STTNG or anything 9 gazillion times becasue it was fucking broke all the time.

Dont get me wrong I love some williams stuff but I am a realist and was there at the time and I know how much shit broke. Fuck De system 3 shit was more reliable than 75% of williams games. Oh let me guess its becasue they never got the coin drop a williams did right? sure.........

Of course Stern pins have less problems out of the box, What can go wrong with a magnet and a bash toy?

Great. I didn't even play pinball in the 90's. I was busy raising a family. I have no nostalgic attachments to pinball of that era.

I am not trying to pick a fight I just hate when people think Williams was the best. They had major software issues all the time and mechs that broke so much it was ridiculous. Every manfucator has its ups and downs. But the Midway days where not as great as everyone thought. Game like CV SUCKED major donkey balls until Cameron made the home roms. Same thing for TZ. Williams had a few good major hits like TAF and MM and AFM but the same can be said about Stern. The PF are made in the same building in shitty cicero that they always have been except for lync sing. Stern does have cheap cheap cheap metal though. Thats a fact. Stern does not get the credit they deserve. They have been around since the 40's and have always been open under one moniker or another.

Wrong.

AC/DC is Terminator 2, that's why I never bought an AC/DC, I already have a T2. Most new sterns are direct copies of old Williams games, with the exception of a very few.

Im not an operator from the 90's, and don't pretend to have any vast technical expertise. Im also equally a Stern and Williams fan. But you can't tell me the Metallica Pro that is being operated near me will be in as good condition as any Williams 90's game in 20 years time! This thing would be getting much less plays than those 90's games were, and after a couple of years, it looks crap and feels crap to play. I doubt it could be restored, even now, to the condition a 90's Williams game could.

No one knows how Stern games will be in 20 years time. You also need to consider in the 90's games were 99% routed and played heavily. Now is a completely different story.

Sure mechanics/electronics of Stern my be more reliable than Williams, but allot of that is just technology.

You clearly used the factory pinballs and didn't bother waxing the machine at any point. I put 600 games on my METLE and with good care it didn't have even the slightest scratch on the Mystery hole.

I put Silver Jets, waxed and cared for my Spidey and no Doc Oc wear either.

Just bothers me when people start threads like this and then new players think it's the norm. It's not, care for your machines better!

I've got some 50+ year old Williams that still look and play fine.

how many pinballs are played in that kiss?

I'll let you guys know how my HD is doing in 4 more years.

Be careful vid, that thing could blow at any time

Since the OP dropped this bombshell and has failed to reply, I am forced to believe that he is a member of the Bee Gees militia and wants nothing more than to see Kiss and their pals, Stern Pinball, fail.
Disco sucks!! Long live the Kiss army!!

P.S. On a serious note: Play with protection! One accident can forever change the future of your beloved machine!

Difference between now and then is that ops used to look after and maintain their games regularly. Now (a lot of) operators just put machines out and leave them with no preventative maintenance or cleaning taking place, just the coin drop being collected. That makes a huge difference to the way a machine plays, looks and earns.

Unfortunately, these ops don't realise that for a little time spent on their "investment" it would reap rewards, not just in increased coin drop but also in a much better condition saleable commodity further down the line.

Here is mine at 7k plays

IMG_1703.jpg

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. The 600 plays on your sheltered METLE is nothing compared to the abuse the Kiss at Modern is getting or mine that is posted above.

7,000 plays??? WOW!! How long has it been on location?

Wow that a ton of plays and dont look that bad for that amount plays so quickly

6 weeks

I fully believe in cliffy and mantis.....but...one thing I always do. A Qtip and some premium poly in a can. I coat all of my scoop and vuk edges 5-6 times. 15 minutes between coats. I do this for my nib but also my 33 year old data east or williams/bally games too. It adds protection until I get the time and/or money to buy the add on protectors.

You're gonna make a killing off of KISS.

Wonder why Borge has not revisited this design, he seems to recycle a lot, wonder why he hasn't gone back to the well on this one?

That's terrible wear on the two sides. Not even a Cliffy will hide that

I also do this using Hard As Nails around the scoop and shooter lane as well as installing Mantis or Cliffy... hardens the edges and keeps dirt from getting ground into the bare wood.

For what its worth, the KISS at replay was already showing wear on that scoop after a few days of play. Pointed it out to my wife and even she could see something wasn't right.

Except it has good code while T2 get really boring after a while.

Yes I will certainly agree with this.

Assuming you're open 24 hrs, 7 days a week, that's 7 plays an hour. That's a lot of pinball.

I remember playing hammered ass games with flippers too weak to make it up the ramp and hunks of broken plastic too big to fit in the drain circulating the playfield. All those old Williams pics you see of games like Space Shuttle with the lower playfield completely stripped down to the wood happened on an op's watch. I disagree that anything has changed.

If you look closely at the picture it's not that bad. The wood is not worn. The clear coat is worn off and there is dirt ground into the wood but the wood is intact. Get the Cliffy to protect the clear coat.

I second this. T2 is a dreadfully boring game in a home environment.

Rumor has it lumber in general isn't what it used to be

That's what she said.

This is very true. I know the guys at CPR, and they say it is getting very hard to find suitable plywood, but they still somehow manage.