WOW.

Do you know how many games that took?

That's some serious wear, I am worried a little.

It still amazes me that Stern has not worked something out with Cliffy or Mantis to provide pre-installed protectors on NIB games for a small upcharge.

The quality of playfield wood is in serious decline.

That scoop took a serious ass kicking! As many plays as I'm sure this game gets, I'm not surprised really. Thank goodness Cliff is looking out for us.

I am too! How many plays op? No way should that be showing thatkind of wear in 2 months!

Or quality of clear has declined?

Steel vs wood...wood loses. MB looked like this after a few hundred plays so I don't buy the "wood is cheaper" argument.

Sure. But it took almost 60 years for the wear on this hole. With no clear coat. My METLE had noticeably softer wood than any of my B/W 90s games and started to get divots almost instantly.
And my GnR looks about like that scoop above and it was routed for almost 15 years.

DSCN3823.JPG

Until then I'm surprised by how many people don't install one or the other on day 1. Damage is guaranteed to happen in a scoop.

My boss came with a scoop protector,why did my kiss le not come with one,Stern just makes no sense at times,

Surely in this day and age we must be close to a superior synthetic playfield alternative to timber. Is someone working on that?

Not a fair comparison. Isn't that a gobble hole where the ball goes in and doesn't get kicked back out? Older machines are mostly single ball games with solenoids having nowhere near the power of new machines.

That would cost extra and eat up profits

Believe what you want or you can lift the playfield of any recent game and compare the quality on the edges to any playfield that was made in the 90s and prior which is exactly what I did when my METLE lost a similar chunk of wood in the shooter lane after only a few weeks and you can decide for yourself.

Discussed here awhile back; All sorts of stuff tested by Bally (when Bally was Bally and Williams was Williams). Static electricity issues that could not be overcome in the operating environment.

But there was no Cliffy protector for this title on Day 1. The Cliffys for KISS just came out. Cliffy needs the game to design the protector.

That's too logical for this forum.

You do realize the ball is moving insanely slow in thise games and its at the top of the PF and its a saucer/gobble hole?

So my machine is showing wear in the same spot. How do I purchase a protector for my KISS machine?

where?

Good point... but Cliffy makes most protectors without the game. Here's how it works:

If you get a new game and want a protector that's not available, contact Cliffy give him dimentions/pics, and he will make it for you and everyone else. In my experience it only takes a couple of weeks which is far less time than it takes for damage to appear. That's how it gets done. Same with Mantis protectors, which I personally prefer on NIB games.

http://passionforpinball.com/

I hate it when people say this. Couldn't be further from the truth. In fact the wood is of BETTER quality than Williams ever used. What the issue is, is the wood is to fresh. I have had games still oozing sap. They need to let the wood cure longer. They also ship and build the pfs sometimes weeks before you get them. So the clear nor the wood has had a proper cure time. I went into massive detail about this when I predicted the ac/dc cloudy window due to Churchill switching clears from omni shopline to deltron.

When I got my Xmen it was ooozing sap and wreaked of a body shop the second I took the glass off. It was so strong I had to set it outside for a week and let it bake under a UV bulb in the booth.

But even with the hardest wood the ball will win. But it boils down manily is Churchill not securing properly cured planks and also not baking the pfs in a booth after spraying. They just air dry. Anyone who has been there can attest to that. Down draft booth till dry thats it. No oven. Even Mirco Bakes them.

Please elaborate. What I noticed is there seems to be more plys that are thinner on the newer games meaning more layers of glue and it seemed the top ply was thicker and harder on the older playfields. But I no longer have anything newer than 1995 so I can't go re-evaluate. But you are correct that it also didn't seem fully dry.

Ever seen a warped Stern pf? Ever? even going back to the 70's Only one was Metallica and that was not a wood issue. I have seen prob 20 or 30 warped williams fields in all my years being a tech and in this hobby and thats over twenty years. Churchill made their improvemnts they did not cheap down for Stern. People bag on Stern but damn they have been around longer than Willams/Midway making better quality games. People are just stuck in the past and romanticize what they thought where CLASSIC games that where made better. Williams games where shit out of the box more so than Stern ever was. Go find ol ops or ask LTG.

Then it is the not drying of the playfields that makes sense which is the condition of the one I had. I also assumed thicker plys were better. Either way the playfield on my METLE was not holding up like I expected it too after so few plays.

The wood is to damn fresh. Like I said I have had 3 or 4 games that had sap spitting out of them. I am a magnet for getting fucked up games. I swear. Rarehero said I have the worst luck ever becasue if there is a game on the line thats fubar some how I always get it. My transformers game did not have clear on 2/3rds of the pf. Like it had something on it when sprayed. Sterns solution to send me a painter of cars a rattle can of krylon clear. Not even a 2 part mix can where you push the button on bottom to mix. Either way protecting is the best option. When I get a new game I leave the glass off and the door open and let it breather for at least a week. My acdc was so fresh when I got it everything looked fine then within 12 hours I had solvent pop all over the lower pf.

Ha, I missed you in many the many threads we've had on this topic. When I get a playfield from someone like CPR, they are very clear that it needs time for the wood and clear to dry out. Stern's official word is: when we ship it, is ready for play.

oh for sure. I have also seen many a nib stern get insert ghosting from airballs becasue its not cured. That sucks becasue they wont do shit about that. But as the end user educate yourself and wait is the best thing you can do. Sucks cause you want to play the game. But be aware your pf in your new kiss was likely just sprayed 2 weeks or less before it got to your door.

Shouldn't the wood be dry before they paint or clear it?

The plywood has to be dry or CCC would not be able to machine the insert holes reliably.

The plys of hardwood plywood (like the Maple used in most playfields) need to be less that 10% moisture content, or it they can't be glued together into a sheet.

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I measured my NIB TronLE's playfield before I clearcoated it.

At 72°F shop temperature, with a 40% air humidity, the playfield measured 6.9% moisture content.

Nicely dry.

Yeah my Tron did not seem to be as soft as the METLE was. But I didn't get it NIB. It had a couple years to cure and only about 80 plays on it. It was solid.

Thank you o-din. You rock!

Sent him a email, now just wait.

Be patient. He'll get back to you. Rumor has it lumber in general isn't what it used to be.

Who cares… SEND MONEY NOW!

My wood is lumbering.

I'm not opening my KISS LE until October...so I should be good?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/met-playfield-twisted

Mine too, just barely, but it's sure time to do something about it. I looked at all the retailers and the Cliffy site too, they aren't advertised yet anyway that I could find. Please let me know what he says, as the e-mail link from http://passionforpinball.com/ doesn't work for me.

Will do, I am sorry bro, me being a first time pin owner and just reading the post on the warped board, I am a little bothered on how Stern addresses it's problems.

I suppose me being in Australia the PF and clear gets an extra 4-5 weeks to cure before the box is opened. My cliffy scoop protector should be here in the next few days

Where is the OP number of plays would be nice.

He emailed me back dozer1, I let him know about our issue and this thread. I am sure he is on it.

I see reading comprehension is not you strong point.

Then what is your definition of warped? Please enlighten us.