(Topic ID: 125096)

KISS displays are garbled, scrambled - gibberish

By Anshiin

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Anshiin
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

Hi - I've read a lot about displays, but do not seem to see anything relating to this specifically. The games plays great and then all of the sudden the displays are garbled, all of them, total gibberish. It does not show whole numbers or anything logical. All different across the displays.

Game has new Alltek mpu, and solenoid driver board. Also has new rectifier board. I redid the plugs on the rectifier board and also redid the plugs on the LEFT side of the MPU, J1 and J2 (i believe).

I have not touched or resoldered the actual display header pins themselves, as the displays are all nice and bright and game was in really great condition, save the acid damage on the MPU. I replaced the rectifier board for reliability going forward and solenoid board - just had the alltek on hand so put it in.

Please help with any thoughts... it is an intermittent problem so makes it hard to troubleshoot and hard to fix. Could it be something with the alltek MPU?

#2 9 years ago

Test each display one at a time ..... they are daisy chained. Un plug them all and start with player #1, play a few games and bring #2 online, and so on. One bad one could cause all to display bad.

Turn the power off each time before you add one!!!

#3 9 years ago

If you haven't already, reflow the solder under all the header pins on all display assemblies.

Also check the connector on the MPU that outputs display data.

#4 9 years ago

can header pins on the displays themselves cause the issue I describe?

The big issue is that this is intermittent. Can seem to cause the error today, but it happens.

I already replugged the connector on the upper LEFT of the MPU. This is the one going out to the displays. I rechecked the work and it all seems ok.

#5 9 years ago

Yes, 1st step is resolder header pins

#6 9 years ago

Thank you for your reply!

I am ignorant in this regard, but how can the header pin cause all the displays to garble? Understanding the wire is daisy chained, but why would the header pin cause issue with ALL displays? I'd appreciate a little understanding for my own sake.

I was more inclined to think it a problem coming from the MPU or the MPU plug, but can't see anything being wrong there. Everything is new and I have repined hundreds of wires in the past without issue...

So yeah, only thing I did not do is solder the header pins, 1st step. LOL

#8 9 years ago

I have read this, but do not see where he explains that the ALL displays will be garbled. just going crazy with total gibberish. I just do not see it. The other issues I am familiar with. This one has been a mystery to me. Feel like I have seen it before. Anyway - will resolder all the display header pins and hopefully can report back in 6 months that the issue never returned.

#9 9 years ago

Because the logic coming through all the displays are daisy chained, if one decoder chip fails, it can cause gibberish to display in all of them.

#10 9 years ago

A shorted switch matrix can also cause odd display behavior. You can rule this out by disconnecting J2 and J3 from the MPU. If the problem goes away, then it's switch matrix related. It's fairly common for the diode leads on the slam switch on the coin door to touch ground.

As vdojaq suggested, the decoder chips can be the problem, too. With the power off, disconnect all but one display to see if they get better. Then connect the other displays, one at a time, to see which one is the culprit. CAUTION: Always power down before connecting or disconnecting the displays!

Allan

#11 9 years ago

Clear the memory on the Alltek, then start it again.

#12 9 years ago

if it was a bad decoder chip, would it be so intermittent? I will have to look how to clear the alltek memory, this is the first I have heard of something like this... I will try pulling J2 and J3 when the situation occurs again. thanks for the suggestions so far.

#13 9 years ago

interesting point about the alltek board memory clear. never read that before or at least did not recall it to be a possibility. thank you very much for that tip. Will resolder the header pins and do the memory clear.

#14 9 years ago

The decoder outputs on the display PCBs are what fail 95% of the time, not an input. While an input could short to high or low, this rare. Also if this happened you would get a miscount of digits, not garbage. I think this thought is barking up the wrong tree.

Junk data in the CMOS ram will cause garbage numbers to stored as a high scores, audits, etc... not cause a garbage across all four displays during game play.

Garbage on the displays i would think is more likely a strobe timing issue. Someone mentioned above shorts to the switch matrix. This is actually does happen(i THINK because how the 4502 does multiplexing, anyone got theory on this???)). Most often is going to be seen on the coin door with the credit switch shorting to the grounded coin door.

When the displays go wacky. Pull the two switch connectors on the right side of the MPU, see if it goes away. Also gently flex around MPU J1 (top left MPU plug) and see if the garbage goes in and out moving around that bundle wires.

#15 9 years ago

I did notice one time when it was flaking out that when I flexed/played with J1 on the MPU (upper left) that it did cause the MPU to reboot and also that it fixed the issue once and then maybe also caused the issue. However now when I jiggle J1, I get no such behavior. This is why it being intermittent makes it really hard and difficult for me to determine what is going on? Should I repin some of the connections on J1. They are all new? Would you happen to know which ones I should repin? thank you.

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Junk data in the CMOS ram will cause garbage numbers to stored as a high scores, audits, etc... not cause a garbage across all four displays during game play.

I serviced a Bally Cybernaut that all displays would go to total gibberish after about 10 minutes of play.

Game itself seemed to still be running properly, just displaying nonsense.

Reboot would again allow about 10 minutes of play, so I was ruling out thermal.

Replaced RAM, game was happy again.

_

I know I've set the switches on the Alltek to clear memory and it fixed other oddball problems

#17 9 years ago

MPU J1 has all the display logic connector pins on it. There is BCD data, encoded digit information for the decoders, four lines. Latch strobes which are basically an enable line for a specific display, one per display, tells a display it is its turn to read the inputs since they are shared. Digit enable, one per digit 0's through 100k or million. Display blanking line sends a high pulse to BLANK out the display. If there is one pin that i would guess to cause your smptoms on MPU j1, it would be the display blanking line. Pin 10. Should be pulsing, i believe at 320 times a second. Make sure this signal leaves the MPU and makes it to the displays.

Quoted from vid1900:

I serviced a Bally Cybernaut that all displays would go to total gibberish after about 10 minutes of play.
Game itself seemed to still be running properly, just displaying nonsense.
Reboot would again allow about 10 minutes of play, so I was ruling out thermal.
Replaced RAM, game was happy again.
_
I know I've set the switches on the Alltek to clear memory and it fixed other oddball problems

The CMOS ram is a scratch pad for digit enable memory. If the ram is running to slow or whatever, i guess that makes sense. I want to say i have even see digit problems caused by a too slow 5101. What the heck is altek using for the CMOS ram? I dont own or have never really even messed with one of those pcbs since i can fix the originals.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I dont own or have never really even messed with one of those pcbs since i can fix the originals.

Show-off!

#19 9 years ago

header pins had already been resoldered. all displays are super bright and really like new. this is a very low mileage kiss, save one small ear spot on the playfield. I swapped in a different alltek mpu, for the hell of it... cleared the memory. will wait and see when/if the issue returns. maybe one of the pins on j1 wasn't pushed in all the way to the plug. all seems ok now. thanks for the insights.

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