(Topic ID: 147390)

KISS (Bally) issues after new playfield placed

By DrMark12PA

5 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by DrMark12PA
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Just finished my KISS playfield restore and put it back into the cabinet. At first everything seemed ok aside from 3 lights being out and that was seating of bulb and quick solder contact.
However, I now have additional issues....
1) My transformer/power board blew the 20A, 32V, 3AG fuse. At first the GI bulbs went dead while the game was in light bulb test mode, then the whole field went dark and I noticed this fuse right away. No other fuses went including playfield fuse. I'm not sure what this would control and of course now that there is no Radio Shack anywhere here I will have to figure out where I can actually get these fuses ASAP to continue working....
2) Just prior to my fuse blowing, I am having issues with my "B" target light. It has continuity but the LED is markedly dim compared to the A,C, and D target lights. All bulbs are the same, all sockets are the same (new Pinball Resource sockets). I tried swapping bulbs and the bulb works perfectly in the other sockets but a known working bulb is still quite dim. I tried resoldering contacts and no improvement. Any ideas here on the dimness level?

#2 5 years ago

Sounds like a short somewhere.

#3 5 years ago

Is it possible to install a temporary circuit breaker in place of a fuse so as to not keep blowing a fuse when testing? I'm sure I'm going to be stuck ordering the fuses online and don't want to keep going through blown fuses hoping I've found the issue.....

#4 5 years ago

Check the new playfield GI braid carefully for short.....touching something it shouldn't!...Like leaf switches.

#5 5 years ago

Small push button circuit breakers to suit this are available. Ive seen tech guys use them alough i haven't seen them in a while.
Maybe you neen to start splitting the circuit to help to find the short

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Is it possible to install a temporary circuit breaker in place of a fuse so as to not keep blowing a fuse when testing?

Go to your nearest auto supply or rv/marine store. Ace Hardware carries them as well. Clip them with a pair of temp wires and troubleshoot away! (available in various sizes)

485203-i_(resized).jpg

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Go to your nearest auto supply or rv/marine store. Ace Hardware carries them as well. Clip them with a pair of temp wires and troubleshoot away! (available in various sizes)
485203-i_(resized).jpg

Fantastic idea! I will be getting setup rolling today... I did buy the 20amp fuses at an auto store so have those on hand but I like the idea of continued testing with the circuit breaker. All of my boards are the Alltek new boards for MPU, solenoid, and lamp driver board as well as the power board so I'm happy to say those are all updated and I'm sure this is hopefully just a short issue likely with the braid somewhere on the playfield.

Any ideas on why the one "B" target light might be more on the dim side?

#8 5 years ago

Ok, so I did get replacement 20amp fuses and replaced so my GI came back. I was having trouble with all of the inserts but this appears to have been a wire off the power supply that needed to be repinned and almost all inserts are now working.
I am still having trouble with the solitary B target insert however. Nothing I'm doing seems to fix this troubled insert. I've tried swapping bulbs, sockets, resoldering, etc...

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Go to your nearest auto supply or rv/marine store. Ace Hardware carries them as well. Clip them with a pair of temp wires and troubleshoot away! (available in various sizes)
485203-i_(resized).jpg

great idea for anyone blowing same fuse over and over.. Thanks

GL with your troubleshooting!

#10 5 years ago

Back at it briefly tonight... Still super dim B target. I tested continuity between the lamp and the pin and that is intact (pin 6 on J1). Testing the voltage (in bulbs test mode comparing it to the A,C, and D targets which are getting 5.1V) I'm only getting 0.44V

My "I" rollover and "I" target do not light up either. These are powered by an adjacent pin 5 on the J1 lamp driver board and there is continuity there as well. Testing the voltage here also is giving me up to 0.5V at most while the adjacent lights are getting 5V.

I guess the question is whether the pins are contacting correctly to the actual board or does the board (Alltek lamp driver board) have an issue.
I'm stumped....

#11 5 years ago

Did the machine work 100% with no issues before you swapped-out the playfield?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Did the machine work 100% with no issues before you swapped-out the playfield?

Yes everything was working before the playfield swap. Basically it's just the 2 "I" insert lights on the same circuit and the "B" target insert not working or at least not getting enough voltage but everything seems ok. I'm considering just buying another lamp driver board.

#13 5 years ago

If it worked before the swap why would you think the lamp driver board is bad?

Normally when it works 100% before the swap but afterwards it doesn't, it has something to do with the playfield swap. It sounds to me like you still have a wiring issue. The Alltek lamp driver boards are usually not the culprit. They are pretty robust and reliable. More reliable than the originals.

Re-check all your connectors and if they are 100% correct then zero in on the connector pins that affect the lamps you are having problems with and double check them again. Replace the pins on all the connectors if you haven't already.

1 week later
#14 5 years ago

Would it be reasonable to take the J1 connector off completely (which is about 23 lamps) and run a wire directly from the pin to the lamp in order to test it? That might rule out if the connector is bad. I've tried pushing on the connector, wiggling it, etc but no change which I would expect if it was just a poor wire connection into the pin.

#15 5 years ago

Here is an easy test, swap the wire on the "B" with either A or C and see if the dim light follows. If it does, you now know you have a wiring issue. Once you do that, put them back and then do the same with the pin connectors at the board. Push the connectors out and swap "B" with A or C again and see if the problem follows the swap. You should be able to figure it out from there.

#16 5 years ago

I just pulled out the connector out of the J1 connector bar and touched it to one of the other lamps and sure enough the light then lit up. So this appears to be a board problem with the Alltek lamp driver board on Q24 and Q25. I believe there are transistors that run these pins though I'm only mildly tech savvy when it comes to testing transistors. Any suggestions on what to do with or about the board either to test it, return it, or just replace it? I know there is usually some warranty.

#17 5 years ago

Transistors are super easy to replace.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

The alltek lamp board works exactly the same

#18 5 years ago

I was able to talk to Alltek and I'm sending the board to them for testing. They thought it could certainly be from the lamp driver board as well. I'm not sure how to test the transistors so I will likely leave it up to Alltek to pinpoint the issues.

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