(Topic ID: 142261)

KISS (1979) new populating new playfield


By DrMark12PA

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 83 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by DrMark12PA
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_0811.jpg
280136u.jpg
Lampboard20KISS.jpg
post.jpg
SpinnerF.jpg
arch_post.jpg
taps.jpg
Lower_playfield_2.jpg
20310_3pc_countersink_bit_set.jpg

There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 years ago

I'm currently in the process of obtaining a restored KISS playfield and will have to transfer my original hardware, wiring, bulbs, plastics, etc to the new playfield.
Can anyone lend some advice on the best way to do this would be? How are the old insert light bulbs fastened to the new playfield for example?
How much new metal braid will I need to order (and where to order this) to run new metal braid on the underside?
Any tips are appreciated as I've never done a playfield restore!

#2 3 years ago

something fellow pinsider mof made up...although not specific to your game, definitely worth the read....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-swap-guide

#3 3 years ago

Consider whether or not you need/want to replace all of the sockets.

Consider whether you want to reuse that metal light panel or just replace those with sockets attached to the playfield.

#4 3 years ago

if you are replacing your play field you may find that your old plastics look out of place, in which case you might desire a set of new plastics. I would recommend replacing all star posts and post caps, they are cheap.

#5 3 years ago

My plastics look pretty good as I've cleaned them up quite a bit.. My playfields plastics are actually autographed as well but I will check on the posts too....

#6 3 years ago

I'd get all new posts from PBR, and I'd replace all the female contacts in the connectors of the backbox.

Get the freeplay ROMs so you don't have to keep dicking with coin switches.

Get new flipper shafts because the old ones will keep falling back to the **memory** of the old playfield.

Wax the whole playfield before you populate.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd get all new posts from PBR, and I'd replace all the female contacts in the connectors of the backbox.
Get the freeplay ROMs so you don't have to keep dicking with coin switches.
Get new flipper shafts because the old ones will keep falling back to the **memory** of the old playfield.
Wax the whole playfield before you populate.

Hey vid, by posts do you mean the ribbed translucent red plastic posts?

#8 3 years ago

http://www.pinrestore.com/Supplies.html This is just one place you can get the wire for your lights. Make sure to have a good staple gun and follow the suggestions above and replace all the old parts that can be done cheaply. It's amazing what new post will do to a game.

Best of luck on your swap. Be sure to take lots of pics and if money allows you may want to pick up a rotisserie or build one. They really come in handy.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Joey_N:

Hey vid, by posts do you mean the ribbed translucent red plastic posts?

Yes.

http://pbresource.com/posts.html#finned

When you see new ones next to the old faded ones, you will be glad you swapped them out!

#10 3 years ago

Any estimates on how much wire ground braid a person should order for such a game? Should I get the 1/4" version or the bare wire twisted version?
Also, do I need any additional hardware that taps into the wood (I believe they are Tnuts?)?
The playfield is already drilled as it was an original that was restored.
Also, just checking on the sockets... could those just be rock tumbled to clean up once detached?

#11 3 years ago

Any estimates on how much wire ground braid a person should order for such a game? - Will depend on the game. Get yourself a ball of yarn (or string). Lift the PF and trace the wire with it. Then you can pull the yard off in one piece and measure it. Then add some extra to that length to be safe for any mistakes made.

Should I get the 1/4" version or the bare wire twisted version? - Should be the twisted wire for the insert and gi Lights. Check the game to be sure but though.

Also, do I need any additional hardware that taps into the wood (I believe they are Tnuts?)? - Yes, there will be several T-nuts. Be advised they most likely wont be the same size. You can get them at a local hardware store so you can just wait till you get them out and have a chance to measure the thread sizes.

The playfield is already drilled as it was an original that was restored. - Was it drilled after being cleared? If not you will need to chase the holes with some nice new drill bits. This is because clear will get into those holes and make them smaller. Not doing this increases your chances of cracking the clear when installing things. Easy to do, just measure the hole from your old PF (slide a bit in the hole to match the right size) and go slowly. I like to countersink the holes as well. May be unnecessary but it sets my mind at ease. I just one of these. Light pressure for 1-2 seconds is all that is needed.

20310 3pc countersink bit set.jpg

Also, just checking on the sockets... could those just be rock tumbled to clean up once detached? Yes - I use crushed walnut shells in my tumbler for them. Be advised it can be a pain to get all the shells out though sometimes Also, watch to make sure the spring doesn't come out. I've had that happen a couple of times when tumbling sockets. I'd pick up a dozen or so new ones just to be safe and replace ones that don't clean up well or aren't nice and tight when a light is put in them. Cheap insurance in my opinion.

#12 3 years ago

Tumbling old sockets seems like a waste if it's already apart. The problem would be the plating on the sockets deteriorating. Old sockets are often flaky. I plan to swap my old from a crappy PF to one I'm restoring and I plan on replacing sockets to be safe. New t-nuts, as they are cheap. I'll probably use sockets instead of that light panel.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Joey_N:

Tumbling old sockets seems like a waste if it's already apart. The problem would be the plating on the sockets deteriorating. Old sockets are often flaky. I plan to swap my old from a crappy PF to one I'm restoring and I plan on replacing sockets to be safe. New t-nuts, as they are cheap. I'll probably use sockets instead of that light panel.

Is the light panel the metal sheet that lights up the rows of the K-I-S-S lines?
Also, what kind of sockets will you be using for replacing your other sockets?

#14 3 years ago

I did a complete KISS restore in the last couple years. For my under playfield lighting, all sockets were tumbled then I soldered all the bases. I use 1/8" flat braid for the GI and feature lights. Lit up perfectly when done.

Lower_playfield_2.jpg

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Also, do I need any additional hardware that taps into the wood (I believe they are Tnuts?)?

Yes.

For the price of 4 at home depot, you can get a box of 100 at Bolt Depot:

https://www.boltdepot.com/T-Nuts_Zinc_plated_steel.aspx

Get a box of 6-32 and 8-32 (I believe that is what the Rail Guide screws are up at the top arch - somebody check this).

-

Don't waste time tumbling and polishing the standard screws, just buy nice new ones at Bolt Depot.

-

You will also need the pop bumper nail screws:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

#16 3 years ago

would these work for retapping the holes if there is clear coat within them?taps.JPG

#17 3 years ago

No. That is for creating/cleaning threads. The holes are not going to be threaded. They are held in by either a nut on the bottom of the PF or a T-nut. I'm not aware of any parts that would be threaded into the wood.

You just want a standard drill bit. You are drilling through wood and clear so you don't need super high dollar ones either.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes.
For the price of 4 at home depot, you can get a box of 100 at Bolt Depot:
https://www.boltdepot.com/T-Nuts_Zinc_plated_steel.aspx
Get a box of 6-32 and 8-32 (I believe that is what the Rail Guide screws are up at the top arch - somebody check this).
-
Don't waste time tumbling and polishing the standard screws, just buy nice new ones at Bolt Depot.
-
You will also need the pop bumper nail screws:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

Do I need a box of 6-32 and 8-32 or just one size (once I figure out what size that is)?
Any idea how many pop bumper nail screws are needed? I haven't pulled the playfield yet so have no idea what these looked like.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

No. That is for creating/cleaning threads. The holes are not going to be threaded. They are held in by either a nut on the bottom of the PF or a T-nut. I'm not aware of any parts that would be threaded into the wood.
You just want a standard drill bit. You are drilling through wood and clear so you don't need super high dollar ones either.

Probably a silly/basic question, but do you drill from the top side or underside? It seems top side drilling down would be safer unless the hole doesn't need to extend all the way to the top side...

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Probably a silly/basic question, but do you drill from the top side or underside? It seems top side drilling down would be safer unless the hole doesn't need to extend all the way to the top side...

What are you drilling for exactly?

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Any idea how many pop bumper nail screws are needed?

There are three per pop bumper....they are threaded on the bottom to secure the pop bumper mechanism from below. On a new playfield I would drill out (counter sink) just a little so that the nail head would be flush with the playfield. They are installed simply by hammering them in from the top.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

would these work for retapping the holes if there is clear coat within them?taps.JPG

Yes.

If clearcoat has run into the Tnuts, that is the correct tool to clean them out.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Probably a silly/basic question, but do you drill from the top side or underside? It seems top side drilling down would be safer unless the hole doesn't need to extend all the way to the top side...

Since your playfield is a restored one verse a new one, you probably won't need to drill anything on the bottom side..However, on the top side the old mounting holes are likely still there, but may have been filled with clear coat, so you might need to drill/clean them a little....especially where any wire guides mount.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Do I need a box of 6-32 and 8-32 or just one size (once I figure out what size that is)?

You probably have both sizes.

The posts are usually 6-32, with a few 8-32 scattered about for good measure.

A few games will even have 10-32, but I don't think KISS is one of them (check before you order).

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

I haven't pulled the playfield yet so have no idea what these looked like.

Up along the top ball arch, there are some larger Philips screws that hold the arch through a sandwich post. You need to first remove the locknut from beneath the playfield, then back these screws out from the Tnut mounted in the playfield.

Pull one of these screws out and check if it is a 8-32 or 10-32 size.

arch_post.jpg

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

Probably a silly/basic question, but do you drill from the top side or underside? It seems top side drilling down would be safer unless the hole doesn't need to extend all the way to the top side...

Top side is safest. If you go from the bottom to top you risk cracking the clear on the top.

Also, to make sure I've been clear. You are not creating new holes or lengthening any holes (taking a hole that doesn't go through the PF and now making it go all the way through). All you are doing is clearing out the new clear coat that would have run down into the existing holes.

#27 3 years ago

SpinnerF.JPG

Quoted from vid1900:Yes.
http://pbresource.com/posts.html#finned
When you see new ones next to the old faded ones, you will be glad you swapped them out!

The 1" posts sold by Pinball Resource are only used for 2 spots on the playfield... there are 30 others that are a bit taller. Anyone know where these can be purchased new? What is the difference between the old and new ones? The old ones seem decent so I'm just wondering how big of a difference in appearance the new ones have.

#28 3 years ago

I've combed the entire KISS pinball manual and there is no reference numbers for the red translucent posts anywhere. Marco carries the 1" and the 1 1/8" versions though I have no way of knowing if the 1 1/8" version is correct. I've included a picture with the reference numbers.

post.jpg

#29 3 years ago

PBR carries 1&3/16. Is that not right?

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

I've combed the entire KISS pinball manual and there is no reference numbers for the red translucent posts anywhere. Marco carries the 1" and the 1 1/8" versions though I have no way of knowing if the 1 1/8" version is correct. I've included a picture with the reference numbers.

post.jpg

Most machines (including Kiss) use a combination of both sizes. Some more than others.

If I'm counting correctly Kiss uses: (32) 1-1/8" posts and (2) 1"

The two one inch posts go below the outer lane guides near the top of the playfield (see arrows). All the rest are 1-1/8".

IMG_0811.JPG

One thing you might want to look into using is one of the aftermarket playfield lamp boards which replace the factory metal #44 lamp mounting board underneath the playfield. It allows you to convert to #555 lamps with twist-in sockets like the later machines used. Much more reliable. Once the contacts corrode on the factory board it will always be a PITA to keep all the lamps working.

Lampboard%20KISS.jpg

I make some parts for Kiss you might want to use if you are doing a top-flight restoration.

>3/16" Backglass lift channel & plastic edge trim set = $19.99
>Shooter lane arch (hood) and ball stop "L" bracket = $9.99
>Stainless steel coin door & side rail carriage bolt set = $7.69

280136u.jpg

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

The 1" posts sold by Pinball Resource are only used for 2 spots on the playfield... there are 30 others that are a bit taller. Anyone know where these can be purchased new?

Those taller ones are the 1-3/16" at PBR.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Those taller ones are the 1-3/16" at PBR.

I didn't initially see the 1 3/16" version right below the 1" inch version because it was shown in blue... but those look correct! Will new ones really pop that much more than the originals cleaned up?

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

One thing you might want to look into using is one of the aftermarket playfield lamp boards which replace the factory metal #44 lamp mounting board underneath the playfield. It allows you to convert to #555 lamps with twist-in sockets like the later machines used. Much more reliable. Once the contacts corrode on the factory board it will always be a PITA to keep all the lamps working.
Lampboard%20KISS.jpg

I had replaced all of the bulbs in the under playfield K-I-S-S board a while back with LEDs that were colored the same as the colors of the inserts. I used 44 LEDs bulbs so are 44 sockets available for this newer board? Also, how much work is involved is swapping the board to replace the original? ie soldering?

#34 3 years ago

The replacement lamp board only uses 555 bulbs and cannot be made to use 44's.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

I had replaced all of the bulbs in the under playfield K-I-S-S board a while back with LEDs that were colored the same as the colors of the inserts. I used 44 LEDs bulbs so are 44 sockets available for this newer board? Also, how much work is involved is swapping the board to replace the original? ie soldering?

Just socket em all instead of using the light board if you want to use 44 type sockets.

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

I had replaced all of the bulbs in the under playfield K-I-S-S board a while back with LEDs that were colored the same as the colors of the inserts. I used 44 LEDs bulbs so are 44 sockets available for this newer board? Also, how much work is involved is swapping the board to replace the original? ie soldering?

There is soldering involved whether you use the #555 board or individual #44 sockets. If you go to individual #44 sockets you will need to drill a hole to mount each one and run a ground too. Installing the board is easier. I think it uses the same mounting holes as the factory one did.

You could always buy new #555 LEDs for the board. It cleans everything up nice and makes it easier to replace them if you ever have to. Better than individual sockets.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

There is soldering involved whether you use the #555 board or individual #44 sockets. If you go to individual #44 sockets you will need to drill a hole to mount each one and run a ground too. Installing the board is easier. I think it uses the same mounting holes as the factory one did.
You could always buy new #555 LEDs for the board. It cleans everything up nice and makes it easier to replace them if you ever have to. Better than individual sockets.

How much "new" soldering in involved in adding/using the new board? I haven't really had any trouble with my old sockets as of yet especially with using LEDs. It seemed like the issue was more with the old bulbs burning out more quickly.

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

How much "new" soldering in involved in adding/using the new board? I haven't really had any trouble with my old sockets as of yet especially with using LEDs. It seemed like the issue was more with the old bulbs burning out more quickly.

Everywhere there is a wire soldered to the old board, it will have to be moved over and soldered to the new PCB. You could just move one at a time, not too hard.

#39 3 years ago

Here's another question that could come up in doing a restoration or just a pf swap -

What do you replace the drop targets with if they are worn? I'm usually a stickler for originality, but the bulls-eye targets are kinda plain. Classiccades or someone makes targets with the solo album faces, but the colors aren't correct vs the actual solo albums.

I'm thinking one of the girl faces from Love Gun, in line art/looking like the old hot stamp technique, would look awesome. However, the girl faces on Love Gun are all at weird angles/side. It's gotta be Love Gun/Alive 2/Solo Albums period as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe the Rock and Roll Over faces would look good as well..

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Once the contacts corrode on the factory board it will always be a PITA to keep all the lamps working.

When I did my KISS restore, I took the time to solder all lamp bases to insure good contact. I did the same with the center light panel. All lighting worked perfectly.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Joey_N:

Here's another question that could come up in doing a restoration or just a pf swap -
What do you replace the drop targets with if they are worn? I'm usually a stickler for originality, but the bulls-eye targets are kinda plain. Classiccades or someone makes targets with the solo album faces, but the colors aren't correct vs the actual solo albums.
I'm thinking one of the girl faces from Love Gun, in line art/looking like the old hot stamp technique, would look awesome. However, the girl faces on Love Gun are all at weird angles/side. It's gotta be Love Gun/Alive 2/Solo Albums period as far as I'm concerned.
Maybe the Rock and Roll Over faces would look good as well..

I had a graphics artist who restored my cabinet make these by making the drops black and using the solo faces that were clear coated.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-kiss-drop-targets-custom

#42 3 years ago

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

can anyone tell me which one of these and how many I'll need?

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from DrMark12PA:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240
can anyone tell me which one of these and how many I'll need?

Fin Shank, 12 of 'em (I'd get a few extra in case you f one of them)

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Fin Shank, 12 of 'em (I'd get a few extra in case you f one of them)

Doing an FG restore right now and damned if I can't find one that I need....DOH! I'll certainly order extras!

#45 3 years ago

Does anyone know a good source to purchase a smaller quantity of 1/8" flat braid wire? From the excellent advice I've been getting here on Pinside, I'm needing both the 1/4" (grounding) and the 1/8" version (lighting).
Most sources sell 100 feet and I don't need that much

#46 3 years ago

Pin restore will sell it by the foot. So will Marco and I believe pinball life.

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

When I did my KISS restore, I took the time to solder all lamp bases to insure good contact. I did the same with the center light panel. All lighting worked perfectly.

Just like when you do the same trick to old individual bayonet lamp sockets it's a short-lived "fix" at best and one you will most-likely be revisiting sometime in the future. But it will work for a while. Usually long enough to sell the machine if that's the goal. If it's going to be a "keeper", I prefer the longer-term fix which would be to either replace the factory array with either individual lamp sockets or the #555 replacement board.

My machine is a definite keeper but the original center lamp holder still works good or I would have already replaced it. It's an exceptionally-clean survivor.

I have one of the replacement #555 lamp boards though in case I ever need it. I might also use it on a future machine because I have one more IPB Kiss playfield (the best of six I bought brand-new years ago) and also a mint NOS backglass and lots of other Kiss-related parts.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Pin restore will sell it by the foot. So will Marco and I believe pinball life.

I've checked and only 1/4" is available at any pinball parts sellers. I've found the 1/8" but have to buy a minimum of 50 feet.

#49 3 years ago

You don't have to use the 1/8" flat for the lighting braid. That is just a personal preference of mine based on a recommendations from and electronics friend.

#50 3 years ago

In looking at the original populated playfield, there is a black raised border around the edges. What is the best way to remove and then attach this to the new playfield?

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 157.00
$ 50.00
$ 84.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 15.00
$ 14.50
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside