(Topic ID: 133135)

King Pin restoration- picking up speed


By rufessor

4 years ago



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  • 187 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 41 days ago by rufessor
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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There are 187 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 1 year ago

Look at pinrepair.com Clay did a King Pin playfield saying what colors were used. I've had a few king pins and they all have that damage. worked nicely!!

#102 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

That is also a good idea... it’s the last thing I need to pull so I can take my time and try the toothpick trick and if it feels sketchy I may snip.

I've had a few games with one of the retainer tabs on the star rollover playfield insert broken and the star rollover never works quite right after that.

For $.75 each for new ones I just cut them off and take it in the wallet. Cheap insurance that I never bust an insert.

#103 1 year ago

Ok... I think you have me at the 0.75

I don’t want to replace the damn insert.... would not really be a big deal considering it’s getting paint and clear but still...

#104 1 year ago

I broke one a long time ago and it was pure agony waiting for the new one to arrive. Solved that problem...

IMG_0177 (resized).JPG

#105 1 year ago

Haha! That’s starting to happen to me. The problem is where do you put all the crap you may never need but would kill for when you do need it!

Other great news-

PINSIDER MikeO managed to scrounge up a couple of drop target springs and sent me a set of top and bottom springs! Shout out to him for being generous and taking time to dig and find these to help me complete this game- and he did it all for fun. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting him the first couple rounds are on me!

#106 1 year ago

I understand the 'do it the right way', but you can have it working immediately if you just follow my directions. Box of flat toothpicks has worked for nearly a decade, and grace under pressure is better than doing it 'brute force'. There is something to be said about doing it right, vs doing it for profit or security. There is an art in restoration, and being proud instead of prideful has its merits.

#107 1 year ago

I intend to try toothpicks. But only so far- thats all. I also would find some small joy in cleaning the original part.

Been matching colors-

Got a green match thats crappy but in the neighborhood maybe... See progression. There are 6 stripes of test colors. I do it on the playfield (gasp! The horror!!) on a stable part and wipe it up with baby wipes. Easy and no garbage about glass or plastic glare in my way. I am color blind and this takes me forever- its the worst part of restorations for me- one color takes me an evening- today Red/pink was easy. Green suckz thus far.

image (resized).jpg

#108 1 year ago

The last few are just adding white and I think I want to do that again- maybe tomorrow. I have my recipe so far and covered the mixing tray so will resume with better eyes in the am.

#109 1 year ago

Here is Clay's King Pin playfield restore tips. http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/kppf.htm

#110 1 year ago

Thanks-

I read that whole guide when I got started and still revisit once in a while! He uses a different approach and purchases acrylics from craft stores where you can get a few hundred colors. I use air brush paints from Createx and mix colors to match and this is the slow part for me...

The craft store paints work and I did that on my first restore but switched over for the next two- Createx paints spray nicely and use quality pigments and are also availble as transparent colors, you often cannot match a color using solid color paints, or not nearly as well. So there is a lot more versatility, and more pain mixing!

I am getting a few more color mixing containers today and hope to have 3-4 of the colors on the playfield mixed this evening and then can start spraying... the more I look the more I like this playfield!

Color matching is absolutely the worst part, I am very exacting and also very bad at this- which is a great combo

I have to say I blend Clays techniques with some others and have not found a one stop one way technique that works for everything so I have some craft store colors I will blend with Createx if it gets me there! I cheat and am proud!

#111 1 year ago

Success! Green is matched. There is a big brush mark in this pic in the upper green triangles- you can see many prior attempts below that do not match.

If your trying this it’s
Opaque white
Brilliant blue transparent
Opaque green
Opaque yellow

I lost track at some point chasing but I started with 50% white and 35-40 % blue then added green and kept adding it- probably another nearly 50% volume of the total whit and blue. I used a little yellow and it settled down into the aged color.

Must match blue and orange and white then off we go!

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#112 1 year ago

This is why I limit my play field touch-ups to black and white. I do not have that kind of patience! Looking good.

Shawn

#113 1 year ago

It Sucks.

But I have found that if I get it perfect- I can then basically randomly fill here and there and just blend out and the process goes amazingly fast. I could cut stencils and redo it, or frisket and hand cut and re spray but I want the original aged look with some cracks. I just want the colors near perfect, so no unfiltered cracks, no wood, no misalignments and razor sharp key lines- so if it matches absolutely perfectly to a couple places, and I lightly apply and mostly wipe off, it should look pretty dang good. If the color don’t match perfectly it’s all or none or I see it. Doing that on my Playboy now and that is a really really really big job. That’s why I jumped to this game, it’s just a slog.

#114 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

It Sucks.
I could cut stencils and redo it, or frisket and hand cut and re spray but I want the original aged look with some cracks.

+1 !
Things shouldn't even be too sharp imho on games from that era, by fear of losing the analogue flavor.

Nice job!

#115 1 year ago

I agree

The games been getting better looking for the last 45 years, who am I to ruin that with bright whites and perfect lines- analog is glorious.

Having said that, some things are better in digital...

Here is the beginnings of a stencil for the left bonus- if you look carefully you will notice this is the right side.. but easy enough to flip a part here and there and make a left. It fits over the left graphics really well... just need to clean it up and cut.

Rough_500Bonus (resized).png

#116 1 year ago

Soooo about that stencil. I am learning Inkscape cause Adobe sucks and won’t sell you software so I refuse to rent something I use only occasionally. Anyhow- it turns out that the Inkscape trace function is a little touchy. The image above- every line is actually two lines about a thousandth or a few of an inch apart- and there is no way to fix that- which means the plotter would try to double cut everything so above is trash. I am basically done after a redo or three in learning Inkscape. Will post final and cut stencils- I have all colors matched and will try to finish the repair this weekend on the bonus hole and probably a decent bit of the rest of the game.

#117 1 year ago

I don't know what plotter you will be using, but mine cuts out shapes, not lines. So what I want to be cutout (and airbrushed) will be a black shape, what should remain on the stencil (masked) is transparent.

something like this:
mask (resized).jpg

#118 1 year ago

I think we both use a silhouette- If your using the silhouette- it definitely cuts lines. Can you save your drawing as a SVG file and then try opening in Silhouette?

#119 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

I think we both use a silhouette- If your using the silhouette- it definitely cuts lines.

Oops, sorry, ignore my previous comment. I'm using Cricut and it cuts shape contours. Cannot help with Cameo.

#120 1 year ago

Well I am learning Inkscape and getting a few tips from the pros (hint... see the dude who posted above me).

Anyhow, I am going to dig up the Silhouette and cut this sucker and see what it looks like- see the white lines thats the stencil... .. up close and personal on a screen I am liking it but I want to check the small font after cutting, I may want to round it a tiny bit.. if It looks good I am going to spray white, then green, then orange and finally black and should have a brand new left side bonus! Can't wait!

Bonus_trace_KeyLines (resized).png

#121 1 year ago

Sweet- It cut perfectly the first time out. Time to paint!

#122 1 year ago

Ok-
First order of business-

FILL IN THE WOOD DAMAGE

Second order

Cover the green with the base white for the game-

Third

Spray the pink

Fourth

Wait for the garage to warm up enough to spray clear. I am sad- I cannot do any more on the playfield for a while. Its 20 out and snowing- maybe in a month I can find a 60 degree day and hit it with a low temp activator. Gonna go buy the lowest temp DuPont sells so I am ready.

I will turn to the cabinet paint now. No clear coat needed here- all ready sprayed the base clear to lock it down so now I can cut stencils and repair. Not erasing- so it won’t be perfect but I want it to blend in at least.

The color match on the pink is possibly- just slightly off- or has not cured yet. It dries dark and maybe will tone down a shade by tomorrow. Gonna check with Naptha but its all ready looking better. I fixed (as much as I intend to) that triangular section of pink. So all the grain and imperfection will remain. If its still obviously to bright a color I will blend it on top of the clear. For now- stencils are cut and I cannot do more until I lock down paint. It was sketchy doing this much but worked well. No harm and some progress.

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#123 1 year ago

I cannot seem to fix the order of the pics above..

Anyhow- after it dries completely I hit that section with Naptha. It’s close but either needs a little more blending over the repair or I need to slightly muddy the color to match perfectly- looks just a tiny bit red compared to the raspberry original color- anyone agree? Just slightly off or more blend?

For sure a touch more over the left side near the repair anyhow.

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#124 1 year ago

I was going to tell you but someone else pointed it out. When you have the double lines like that the Silhouette software does have a fill function. That way it only cuts where you need it to. I do most of my cleanup in a free version of Adobe Photoshop Elements (PSE) that came with my draw pad. When I get it where I want it, I save it as a hi-res jgp. I then open that in Inkscape and do the trace function and save it (by exporting it) as a PSD. Now its a vector drawing and I can manipulate it however I wish. The Silhouette will cut it just fine. I have since upgraded to a 24" commercial cutter that came with great software.

Shawn

PS, looking great!

#125 1 year ago

Following this thread with lots of interest. What plotters are you guys using? I’m looking in to this but have no idea what to get?

#126 1 year ago

Hey Shawn,

Thanks for the tip... I knew I could fill but was so focused on getting the right trace I bailed out after I saw double lines and could not easily delete one, I am not sure but I think in this case they were so close to each other I could not have edited the shape appropriately as I would have ended up with overlapping vectors. I came from commercial plotter use to a Silhouette and although I remain impressed with the Silhouette and it’s ability to cut accurately it is an issue to attempt longer cuts and software is not perfect. As you mention trace is common, I am trying to stay in Vector space as a exercise to avoid that, not because it’s been a real problem but it does add a step.

Quoted from tomds:

Following this thread with lots of interest. What plotters are you guys using? I’m looking in to this but have no idea what to get?

Most of us (Shawn went large and has upgraded, but used to use a Silhouette I believe) use a Silhouette or Cricut (spelling?) plotter. It’s my impression that the Silhouette software is a bit better but it’s been some years sincerely I started this and updates have been made to both products so things may be different now. Look into the Sillhouette club... it’s a thread here many have contributed to with lots of tips on what to buy.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/silhouette-cameo-pinball-restorers-club/page/5#post-4098286

Your welcome to ask Questions here, but may get more diversity of response in the club thread. Also, check out this thread...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/another-time-fantasy-screaming-for-attention/page/3#post-4246420

Many threads by Mk1Mod0 will be of interest- he does this extensively...

I started doing this a long time ago but am totally self taught and my prior experience using plotters was to engineer microfluidic devices so I knew the basic process but all the software is new, I was completely in AutoCad before! It’s super fun, I will say that unless you plan on clearcoating the playfield it’s also mostly a process you will not be able to use. In my experience if you try stencils on an old playfield without locking the paint down, your gonna peel up a lot of paint and it’s just a disaster in slow motion. I got away with this step because mot of the required masking was over regions I am respraying or was over wood.

#127 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

It’s my impression that the Silhouette software is a bit better but it’s been some years sincerely I started this and updates have been made to both products so things may be different now.

Indeed the software for Silhouette allows to actually draw your artwork, whilst Cricut has rather limited drawing tools. As a consequence the software from Silhouette is more complex and has a learning curve. Cricut software is super-easy. But honestly: both are pretty basic anyway and you better draw your artwork in a true vector-based software like Illustrator (licenced) or Inkscape (free). Then export your artwork as svg-files, ready to be cutout.
The downside of Silhouette is that you have to pay an additional licence to be able to import svg-files (unless that has recently changed). That is not the case with Cricut, all is included. So for me the choice was easy: I don't need these drawing tools, and then the really dummy-proof interface from Cricut is a gift from god.

2 weeks later
#128 1 year ago

It occurred to me that I have been using my portable compressor to run my air brush (not that I need even that much air). Then I started to collect stuff to clear the playfield and remembered I had restored my new shop compressor but had never plumbed it- just had it running but could only blow air out the tank. No hose, no filers, no fittings.... zilch.

So a few months ago I picked up a used Hankison refrigerated air dryer. I also threw a coalescing filter for oil and a particulate filter and a regulator together and got it all plumed and working. Its a sweet set up and I can now spray a playfield without having to play catch up four times with my compressor. Now I really cannot wait for warm weather... here is the air set up now!

I also should not even need to bother with a filter on my gun- but getting a new hose to be sure- my old one is probably filled with oil and dirt. So once I install a new hose with a reel on the wall just above the dryer- tjis part is done.

Probably overkill but it will make it fool proof and solid. Plus this was fun to set up. I have the compressor on a switched 220V direct circuit. I Just pulled a neutral in and threw a GFCI outlet into the junction box for the compressor and now the dryer plugs in there. So one switch and the dryer starts cooling and the compressor starts filling. With the aftercooler on the compressor and the dryer this should be pretty good air for clear coat- almost good enough to breathe.

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#129 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

I also should not even need to bother with a filter on my gun- but getting a new hose to be sure- my old one is probably filled with oil and dirt.

It wouldn't hurt to use a filter anyway. Better to overkill it and not need it, than to turn out to need it when you don't have it.

#130 1 year ago

Ok- I have had such a fly by night operation in terms of how I spray clear I cannot wait to use this. Will keep a filter right in front of the gun- I have a bunch of cheapos disposable... your right better safe than sorry.

Wow- was looking at hose reels that retalract. Had no idea they were so spendy

#131 1 year ago

I'm a little jealous of your setup rufessor . This looks good ...

-

I didn't know there was 220 in the US?

#132 1 year ago
Quoted from g94:

I didn't know there was 220 in the US?

We only use it for higher load needs around the house, like electric dryer, air conditioner, maybe electric water heater.

Small stuff, including pinballs, are all 110-120vac.

#133 1 year ago
Quoted from g94:

I'm a little jealous of your setup rufessor . This looks good ...
-

I didn't know there was 220 in the US?

They have 2 separate 110v lines in the U.S. called "Line 1" and "Line 2" (Black and Red)
Here's a pic of a sub panel....
DSCN0588 (resized).JPG

#134 1 year ago
Quoted from g94:

I'm a little jealous of your setup rufessor . This looks good ...

Too bad it won’t make my airbrushing look anything like what your doing!

The 220 is standard for every residence pretty much, basically you add voltages so if you pull both line feeds with a ground you get 220 V. Probably the same in Europe I suppose?

I admit to being excited to spray the King Pin! I actually need a new gun, anyone care to recommend a brand or model. I had an old turbinair gun but it had a big pot that was external and was ok, did a great job but the company went out of business some years ago and no parts are available. It finally broke and I had significant issues with the last coat, of no consequence as I was filling and sanding but not risking it again.... so will get a new gun in a bit. No rush, garage will be too cold for clear for a month or more yet, so perfect time to get the compressor fully set up and clean up and do odds and ends.

I need/want to build a circuit with processor to handle PMW dimming for early SS Bally games [Playboy and Globetrotters in my collection] but hesitate to start on that just yet, I know if I have more than two projects going then nothing gets done. So going to finish this game as soon as I can. Just not immediately. Updates on that end will be intermittent for a bit.

1 week later
#135 1 year ago

Although not warm enough to spray clear. It’s plenty warm enough to sand the cabinet last first coat of clear and try to restore that right now- so moving a bit laterally in the project but another big step. If this comes out well I will be super pleased. There is a potential for a small disaster being the need to sand it down to wood, fill and respray cabinet. So worst case it will end up looking brand new. But I prefer vintage so not going to fill all the cracks and may even reemphasize them with a dirt wash before I spray clear. But gotta fill big paint loss areas as they are low and significant on the front. See below

You can just see some Playboy playfield topside parts and plastics in the distance. I am withholding work on that until I finish this game. If I work on both as I had been nothing got done.

image (resized).jpg

#136 1 year ago

Plan is to sand it rough, fill using good quality filler- a 3M polymer, used by body shops to work with clear, then sand- cover with Orval and hand cut white- spray it- like 85% coverage- blend to the fills and then remove stencil- splatter with black- and hit colors the same way more or less. Then tea wash it to fill the cracks with dirt and clear coat it with a flat finish and leave the cracks- very light coat.

Or so is the current plan. If the overspray looks bad it’s going to get sanded down or at least down to a flat surface- primed and etc.

#137 1 year ago

This is going to come in handy for the post sanding clean up of the machine.

#138 1 year ago

The hose reel is here and works awesome. That compressor is amazing. I Air blasted the cabinet and really never stopped to wait for air. It kept up with continuous work at 60 PSI with a big ass blast nozel wide open. Super fun to have this capability. I have never see such clean old wood.

image (resized).jpg

#139 1 year ago

The cabinet and head came out better than i had hoped. I am going to take a look and all ready know of a few problem spots- but for the most part it’s really smooth and has 95% of the original paint still on it. Reconsidering the redo and may attempt to blend repairs into existing paint rather than over top everything. Front is a different story- that’s also pretty flat but needs to be more or less re stenciled. Just gotta match to the rear super well—-

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#140 1 year ago

And happily- I don’t even have to touch the top of the head but for very near edges. And I retained original serial stencil and cigarette burn- those are getting another coat of clear to lock them down forever!!

image (resized).jpg

#141 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

And I retained original serial stencil and cigarette burn- those are getting another coat of clear to lock them down forever!!

haha! Of course!
Good work Rufessor!

#142 1 year ago

Thanks.. I really like the cigarette burn! Currently it’s one of the nicest features on the cabinet

Hopefully that will start to change pretty rapidly but who can say

#143 1 year ago

Glad to see "steel toes" are worn in your shop!
Safety first.

20180326_155429 (resized).jpg

#144 1 year ago

Haha! Busted!

At least they have no holes- good for protection against drops of sand paper from at least 4 ft!

#145 1 year ago

what did you use to fill the wood?

#146 1 year ago
Quoted from rufessor:

Thanks.. I really like the cigarette burn! Currently it’s one of the nicest features on the cabinet
Hopefully that will start to change pretty rapidly but who can say

Takes me back to when I started playing EM's. Yes, you could smoke in the Game Room.

droptarget asks a good question as another thread the person (not sure if it was Vic) said not to use bondo but something that he poured? I want to say fiberglass but that isn't it and I cannot think of the thread.

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from Grayman_EM:

droptarget asks a good question as another thread the person (not sure if it was Vic) said not to use bondo but something that he poured? I want to say fiberglass but that isn't it and I cannot think of the thread.

I'm looking for the same information. I thought it was a resin. I have a cabinet that needs to be stabilized instead of repaired and this seems like the best product.

#148 1 year ago

Still looking, but here he high_end_pins uses carbon fiber as it is stronger and bonds to wood stronger too. Also a good read.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-four-million-bc-restore

#149 1 year ago

Found it in his words: I'd chip out any loose wood and old repair, then fill the void with Fiberglass Resin. FR is harder than Bondo.

Make sure the playfield is level when you pour the Resin in, because it's super hard to sand once it's fully hardened. Scraping with razor when its 3/4 cured is a good practice.

Tape off the surrounding area.

Can be found in Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration post#4421.

Hope this helps mikeo !

#150 1 year ago

I just picked up some Dolphin glaze as per Clay's guide. I'll give that a shot and report back next week.

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