(Topic ID: 329696)

King of Diamonds troubleshooting

By Bublehead

17 days ago



Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

KOD lights (resized).JPG
KOD scoring (resized).JPG

#1 17 days ago

Ok, first off, let’s start by saying 5 ball. Roll over lights are dropping card flags, scoring 50, spins roto but not turning off the insert. Subsequent hits score 50, spins roto but should NOT score since rollover should have been unlit with first hit. This seems to happen on several numbered cards, 2 numbered cards being the only ones that unlite when rolled over. AKQJ10 targets score 50 all the time, even on the roto, but do unlight when hit and drop their card flag. Once all cards are hit, however, the specials never light up, even though all card flags are dropped, and I believe this may be because not all lights are unlit.

I have the schematic, I’m rusty at ladder logic, but I guess I’ll stare at it some more. I think the Grimlins are in the card flag sequencer relay bank, but I need to know what all the 5-3 ball adjustments do to the ruleset to better understand what is going on.

From what I can tell, correct operation is the lit cards should all go off as they are scored. Getting 2-9 lights specials at inlanes. Getting all cards lights one of the A thru 10 inserts and scores a special when the card target is hit on playfield or on roto.

Right now, my cards are not unlighting when rolled over or hit on roto for numbered cards 2-9, but not all of them, 5 and 3 are going out, it scores 50 and drops the card flag, and subsequent rollovers of 3 or 5 just spin the roto target, and 3 and 5 are dead on roto when hit. The other numbers continue to score 50 and do not go out, but do drop their flag on the first hit.

Any suggestions kindly accepted on where to start looking.

#2 17 days ago

This is the part of the schematic that's relevant to the problem you described:

KOD scoring (resized).JPG

Each of the relays 2B through AB are latching relays that should trip when they are fired by the #2 through A rollover switches or targets. When the game starts and all the rollover/target lights are lit, hitting (for example) the #2 rollover switch will fire the #2B relay and P relay. There's a switch on the P relay in the upper-right that closes and fires the B relay for 50 pts.

The #2B relay doesn't stay energized for long, though - the 2B make/break switch in series with the relay (which is actually on the relay) will change state, breaking the connection through the #2B relay and the P relay. It should stay in that state until the bank with all those latching relays is reset - probably at the start of the next game. Since the 2B switch is now in the state opposite shown on the schematic, further closures of the #2 rollover switch should fire the C relay for 5 points.

Elsewhere in the schematic, there are switches on those latching relays that should turn out the rollover lights when you roll over a particular switch:

KOD lights (resized).JPG

Since some of the rollovers are working, your P relay must be good. I would check to see that the latching relays corresponding to the rollovers that aren't working are actually firing - you can see them trip or not. If they are firing, then check the switches on them (using the wire colors to identify the switches) that control the scoring and lights. If the switch contacts are clean and making good contact, then maybe you have a connection problem somewhere - broken wire, broken solder joints or a Jones plug problem.

#3 17 days ago
Quoted from paulace:

This is the part of the schematic that's relevant to the problem you described:
[quoted image]
Each of the relays 2B through AB are latching relays that should trip when they are fired by the #2 through A rollover switches or targets. When the game starts and all the rollover/target lights are lit, hitting (for example) the #2 rollover switch will fire the #2B relay and P relay. There's a switch on the P relay in the upper-right that closes and fires the B relay for 50 pts.
The #2B relay doesn't stay energized for long, though - the 2B make/break switch in series with the relay will change state, breaking the connection through the #2B relay and the P relay. It should stay in that state until the bank with all those latching relays is reset. Since the 2B switch is in the state opposite shown on the schematic, further closures of the #2 rollover switch should fire the C relay for 5 points.
Elsewhere in the schematic, there are switches on those latching relays that should turn out the rollover lights when you rollover a particular switch:
[quoted image]
Since some of the rollover are working, your P relay must be good. I would check to see that the latching relays corresponding to the rollovers that aren't working are actually firing - you can see them trip or not. If they are firing, then check the switches on them (using the wire colors to identify the switches) that control the scoring and lights. If the switch contacts are clean and making good contact, then maybe you have a connection problem somewhere - broken wire, broken solder joints or a Jones plug problem.

And if the lights are not going out, you may just have a gap issue on the relay contacts... use your fingers, you can quickly figure out which of the stack contacts run the lights, Same ione on each stack

#4 17 days ago

General first rule of thumb when you see odd scoring and light behavior on games like KOD and Bank-a-Ball is to reseat the bank in the head. That solves the issues about 50% of the time.

#5 17 days ago

Yup. As stated above, all of those issues point to switch adjustments in the drop card bank. It's a royal pain to get all of them just right. I've gone through this several times on several copies of K.O.D./D.J., F.P./B.A.B.
The high cards, A,K,Q,J,10 should normally score 50 points all the time, so that part is ok.

#6 17 days ago

Ok, for starters, I want to personally thank everyone who posted… your info is now captured here for the rest of the poor KOD owners like me in the future who arrive here with the same symptoms, all of which you have addressed very quickly and correctly, I might add. Whilst you were adding to the answer pot, I was reading other KOD troubleshooting posts when I came across a TimMe post that follows:

Quoted from TimMe:

Check the big sequence bank in the head, the one with the cards on it. The bank frame has a wing-nut on each end that engage slots in the end brackets. Over time, the bank tends to slip out of the end brackets and this causes operational problems. To fix, loosen the two wing-nuts, push the bank frame all the way forward into the slot on each end-bracket, and tighten the wing-nuts down very tight.
- TimMe

The same advice was shared here as well by runbikeskilee, and I am glad this info is out here for us to find. I know now to check this first before getting a chair, a rope, and a high place to hang myself when KOD goes brain dead.

Ok, this saved me not just tons of time, but f-tons of time. Not knowing to check the wingnuts and bracket would have cost me hours of pouring through the scat and aligatoring my way to oblivion. Imagine my surprise as all my symptoms disappeared after jiggling the end of the sequence bank and it jumps up in the slot and tightens right up. If you have a KOD and it’s acting weird, check the sequence bank out. TimMe you and the others paulace pinhead52 Runbikeskilee and jrpinball are my KOD saviors and I owe you all a couple of shots/rounds/hits if you ever bump into me. Special shout out to jrpinball for the roto unit. All working great now.

#7 17 days ago

Great!!!
I used to own a B-a-B and noticed odd scoring and light issues maybe 3 times over the years. Like you, I struggled with it the first time it happened until I noticed that one end of the bank had dropped about 1/4" out of the slot. That bank just wants to vibrate out of position. Be careful not to get any lube or oils near those wingnuts.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
Protection
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Washington, DC
From: $ 12.99
Cabinet - Other
The Pinball Scientist
Other
$ 25.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
Men
$ 20.00
Tools
3dgremlin
Tools
$ 3.00
Lighting - Led
Pinballrom
Led
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!