(Topic ID: 199407)

King Kool Resets after Ball Drains

By Gerty

2 years ago

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  • 25 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Gerty
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switch (resized).jpg
coin door (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

Howdy All-

I picked this game from a family that owned it for close to 40 years. It needed a lot of cleaning. I went through it closely -I thought! lol.

I've searched a bit here on the forum but did not find a solid direction.

The game starts normally however intermittently any value score hit will cause the game to go into the start up reset sequence again. Sometimes it will play the ball for a while but will usually upon any score, again not a specific value, reset the game. When the ball does drain it will count down the bonus first then always reset like a new game. I do not have the manual or schematic. ( I should have copied the set I had with a KK I sold in the spring).

I do have an issue with the credit stepper as I have not set it to free play yet however it is not stepping down subtracting a game when I start or when it does the rogue reset procedure. I'll look at that of course.

Also, I notice the ball in play lights are not lit but do cycle and flash on/off during the start/reset sequence so I know they are good.

As always thanks in advance.

#2 2 years ago

I have made some progress it appears. I inspected the coin door and found nothing obviously wrong. For laughs I unplugged the coin door jones plug to see what would happen. Low and behold I can now play the game as it should. However to get a new game started I must plug in the jones plug again. It immediately starts the reset cycle. Once reset, I unplug it and the rest of play seems ok thus far. I also noted that at least the 4 and 5 ball in play lights come on as they should. I'll get to the ball in play 1,2,3 lights at some point.

Clearly I have either an issue with a coin door component or one of the related relays no? I'll search the forum for some info on that. Again I don't see anything obvious. I will really go over the credit unit next as well.

In addition I'll need to revisit the match unit stepper as I don't seem to have that operating yet either. That along with the ball in play lights should be a minor clean/ adjustment situation I gather.

#3 2 years ago

Have you checked the slam switch on the coin door?? Dont know this game or even what era its from but a reset could easily be this switch making/breaking- on some games. Easy to see easy to fix if this is part of the issue.

#4 2 years ago

Slam switch or Start Button.

The Start Button (Re-Play Button) could be gapped to close or the wires on the soldering tabs are to close.
Some games start on dropping a coin into it, check the switches in the coin path, wires could be to close as well.

#5 2 years ago

I have checked the gap on the start switch as well as the lugs. Everything looks correct. I also checked the slam switch. It is closed as it should be and looks to be fine as well. I chased the wires to the jones plug and don't see anything out of sorts. Very odd. I'll look again. I even inspected my Quick Draw game as it has essentially the same coin door set up for comparison with no luck.

#6 2 years ago

I have a 73 gottlieb so going off that I can't even see any connection to the outhole and the start relay.

Just want to make sure when you say it's reseting you mean the S relay pulls in and the player unit cycles around to reset the reels and go to ball one, player one?

Maybe somewhere in the coin door there's some mis-aligned fish paper or dampening blade that's shorting a switch somewhere like this? http://www.pinrepair.com/em/gtbswbad.jpg

Have you tired making sure the coin door itself is grounded and nothing is shorting against it? I spent 3 days chasing an issue before where coils were activating because switches were shorting up against the metal frame.

Other then that the only thing I can think of is check the S relay itself, though considering you said unplugging the coin door fixes the problem I don't think that's the issue. Does everything still work properly if you unplug the coin door, and manually start a game by actuating S with your finger?

#7 2 years ago

Yes when it resets it completes the whole procedure as if it's a new game.

I looked at the coin door again and still don't see an obvious issue. I may actually take it off and really inspect it on the bench. I agree about the s relay possibly being the issue however when I unplug the coin door it does work fine. Yes when I unplug the coin door I can and did manually activate the start relay with success.
I must say I want to look and clean the coin door jones plug as I did actually get the game to start and play 3-4 balls with the coin door plugged in before it tanked again. It was progress except I'm not sure what I did to achieve it! LOL. I'm guessing by moving and cleaning the switches and such as well as removing and plugging in the coin door plug repeatedly is doing something.

#8 2 years ago

Cleaning the plugs is always a good idea. I find either a thick brush or a 600 grit sandpaper works the best.

Also clean the female ends. I use pipe cleaners and a little bit of 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean the female ends. Afterwards I just blow out any remaining gunk.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Gerty:

I unplugged the coin door jones plug to see what would happen. Low and behold I can now play the game as it should.

Here's a step-by-step approach to this problem. Leaving the coin door jones plug unplugged, identify pairs of wires by looking at the wire colors of switches on the coin door, reconnect one pair at a time with alligator clip jumper wires, and play the game until you find the switch causing the problem.

#10 2 years ago

I'll do that today. It should be easy to identify as there are only a few switches and the coin window light.

#11 2 years ago

Still no luck. I jumped the wires a pair at a time without success so I took the door off to go over it closely on the bench. I studied the wires, switches etc. I checked again with an ohm meter the function of the 4 switches both at the switch and at the jones plug connector. I even wiggled each switch and wire while testing as well. Note there is the start button switch, slam switch, and two coin switches, However only one side has the coin mech as the other side has the blank on the front door coin chute- but both switches are there and work. Also of course there is the coin lock out coil again, working fine. The only issue I found is on the coin switch that does not have the coin mech. I discovered when the coin lock out coil pulls in and the wire moves to lock out an added coin, the wire actually comes into contact with the bottom blade of the coin switch. It does not move the blade closing the switch but does rest under it touching. The other side does not do this (it has the coin mech). I'm not sure if this is the issue but I will adjust it before putting the door back on. I added a photo for reference.

I also have some insulation off two wires on a relay called the extra chute relay. There are a few switches on it and the one with the burned insulation appears to be a normally closed set. Both wires on that set have lost the insulation. If someone has the schematic I would love to understand what is correct and what that switch does. Is this relay for the extra coin chute? If so the dots are connecting I think. I will begin by chasing that back at the jones plug for the coin door as a start.

As always thanks in advance for thoughts.

coin door (resized).jpg

#12 2 years ago

Check out your Player Unit (backbox): 1. make sure all those rivets and the little springy things connections are wicked clean and shiny. Oil very lightly. 2. check out the switches in the stacks behind it. E switch (you count up from bottom if you didn't know) or so usually does the ball in play light for each

2 weeks later
#13 2 years ago

Anyone have the extra chute relay wiring schematic? I need to understand what this does. Thanks

#14 2 years ago

The issue I found with the "extra chute relay" was this. In the photo you can see on the normally closed switch set, someone attempted to solder the wire on. It seems the solder slid down the terminal making contact with the other terminal on the other side of that switch. When that relays pulls in it opens (or should) that switch set. Clearly it was not as they were shorted. I bent the two terminals apart when I first discovered it. I'm guessing that's why the insulation burned on both wires. I'm hopeful this is the cause of the game restarting.

I would like to see the schematic to be sure of the wire color location.

switch (resized).jpg

#15 2 years ago

I should add the "extra chute relay" is also marked the W relay.

4 weeks later
#16 2 years ago

I am making progress however I now have an odd intermittent issue. At times during play, and once while the ball was in the shooter lane, all of the playfield lights will go out for a few seconds then come back on. Everything else works on the playfield and the back box stays lit. Any quick thoughts as to where to look first? I'm still looking for a schematic.

2 months later
#17 2 years ago

I cleaned the jones plugs to the playfield and I think the intermittent light issue seems to be resolved.

I still have the issue with the reset after the ball drains and counts down the bonus points. Sometimes I can play a whole game other times I can't. If anyone has a schematic or a similar game and could possibly point me in the right direction i'd appreciate it. I want to understand the sequence once the ball drains, counts down the bonus and then kicks the ball to the shooter lane while moving the player unit to either the next ball or next player. I'm sure it's just a cleaning or adjustment I just want to look in the correct place- the player unit, score motor or a relay. Just not sure yet.
Thanks in advance.

#18 2 years ago

Is it still the case when you unplug the coin door Jones plugs the game will play with no problems? If that's the case, there still might be some issues with the coin door switches and wiring. Make sure all the switch stack screws on the coin door are tight. Another issue could be a broken switch stack screw sleeve. If it's an intermittent problem, it would be difficult to troubleshoot the switch stack with a multi-meter. You'd have to take the switch stack apart to do a visual inspection of the sleeves. It's rare a sleeve could break, but I've seen the problem a few times over the years...

#19 2 years ago

I will play it with the coin door plug disconnected to see what kind of result I get. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

#20 2 years ago

It appears it does play normally with the coin door jones plug disconnected after I start a game with it plugged in. I guess I will disassemble the switch stacks on the coin door and inspect closely. Am I correct is stating that the start button may the culprit in resetting the game after the ball drains and counts the bonus? I want to look at the associated relays as well I'm just not sure which ones yet.

#21 2 years ago

You'll need to look at the whole start circuit to see what relays and switches send power to the start relay. The start/credit button switch could be the problem. Make sure the fish paper on the start/credit switch is in good shape. Maybe a short in the Jones plug connection. I'm still thinking there's some issue with the coin door that is causing the problem, because the machine plays fine when the coin door is disconnected. Check all the coin door switches and connection first, and I'll check to see if there could be any other problems areas using the schematic...

#22 2 years ago

I spoke too soon regarding the playfield light circuit. They went out and have stayed out. I wish I copied the schematics when I owned a King Kool a couple years back. I'm at a stand still without them.

#23 2 years ago

I have gone over the coin door again. I'm stumped. I do agree it is related to the coin door and or the start circuit for sure. I need to step away and regroup! LOL

#24 2 years ago

For the playfield lights issue, check the following:

10 amp fuse and fuse holder - white wire and white/red wire
H relay switch - white/red wire and white/black wire
Playfield Jones Plugs - unplug, make sure plugs are clean, re-seat the plugs

For the restarting issue:

We'll need to look at all the possible ways power can get to the start relay (S relay).

When a game is in progress, power comes from the transformer and sends power through a series of normally closed (NC) switches to the following normally open (NO) switches:

Replay button switch - brown wire and orange wire
#1 coin chute switch - orange wire and blue wire
#2 coin chute switch - orange wire and yellow wire (if installed)
#3 coin chute switch - orange wire and green wire (if installed)

The three coin switches are armed and ready to send power toward the start relay. The replay button switch is armed and ready if there are credits showing on the credit wheel. If any of these switches close during a game, the game will reset. Questions: When the machine has zero credits during game play, does the restart problem happen? Is the machine set for coin play or free play?

Another way power can get to the start relay during a game, is through the following switches that are normally open (NO):

W relay switch - slate wire and orange/white
S relay switch - slate wire and orange/white

If these switches are out of adjustment or have a short, they can cause the machine to restart during a game.

Another test: With the coin door Jones plugs connected, play a game with the coin door swung open. Does the machine reset by itself during a game when the coin door is open?

Vibration issues: Are any of the coin switches or replay button gapped too closely? Switches that are gapped too closely could cause the machine to reset during a game...

2 months later
#25 2 years ago

I thought I'd give an update. I purchased a set of schematics at Pinfest in Allentown two weeks ago. It turned out the issue was in the tilt/hold (H) relay. I cleaned and adjusted it and all is fine in the world. I've played maybe 40 games or so without issue. It was also the culprit in the playfield lights intermittently going out as well.

Thanks all for the help!

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