(Topic ID: 301819)

King Kool center target layout

By hofmeester

3 months ago


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#1 3 months ago

After 30 years of wanting to work on a pinball machine, I finally got a Gottlieb King Kool last week from Facebook marketplace.

The machine is in good shape and basically worked after I fixed the short in the reset circuit. I have a question about the placement of the posts and the o-ring surrounding the center target (see pic). The way the o-ring goes around the 5 posts means you have to remove the posts for the spinners to replace the o-ring. That seems a bit 'weird' from a maintenance standpoint. I noticed that one of the posts was replaced with the base of a xmas tree light and that might be the reason it is done this way.

Should the o-ring be on the inside (currently on the outside) of the posts that support the spinners?
Does anyone have a picture of the official configuration?

What is a good place to find a replacement post?

--Nico

KingKool_Inside_HeadBox (resized).JPEGKingKool_InsideCabinet (resized).JPEGKingKool_CenterTargetOring (resized).JPEGKingKool_Overview (resized).JPEG
#4 3 months ago

Thanks dr_nybble. I'm excited to start this journey.

I have question about top rail bracket that the glass slides into. It used to have some padding that has decayed completely into black sticky goop. I was going to use some foam tape to replace it. Is there a best practice on what to replace this with?

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#6 3 months ago

Thanks TheLaw. That would probably explain what happened. A post was ripped out when someone tried to stretch an O-ring across all five posts. I thought it was weird to have target covered by a rubber.

I'm assuming that the o-rings in the picture that were in a bag in the coinbox and installed throughout the machine are not official pinball rubbers?! I noticed that some lane guards are being pushed outwards because the rubber is too think. How do I identify pinball rubbers versus regular o-rings? Is there a place that would spec all the rubbers needed for a Kool King?

Do they sell the little white post caps that hold the plastics in place? Four were replaced with tiny black black rubber 'thingies' It does not too bad but I'd like to get the original white caps.

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#8 3 months ago

Awesome. Thanks for the links. I'll order the rubber kit and caps to replace them all.
Appreciate everyones help.

I was just looking at one of the white posts.
Looks like a perfect candidate for 3D printing.
Has anyone tried to 3D print them and how did it come out?

#11 3 months ago

I got my shopping cart at Marco filled with goodies. Including rubbers, posts, post caps and ball. Exciting!! Need to add a couple more items and looking for input on the following:

Playfield Cleaning:
There are so many products, reviews, procedures and opinions on what to use to clean the playfield. From what I read, it seems like CP-100 to clean and then Novus#2 to 'polish' would be the thing to do for this King Kool EM. Do I then still wax after that? Thoughts?

Tiny metal posts:
I can't locate a part number for the tiny metal posts that are on either side of the spinner arm feedthrough and in a couple other places on the field. The diameter is 1.5mm and they stick out 24mm.

Pop Bumpers:
I guess I should take these off before cleaning the play field. What do people use to remove the plastic ring that is glued to the playfield. Two of them are completely loose but one is still stuck to the playfield.

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#15 3 months ago

Post itself is fine. I’m looking for what almost looks like a nail. On the right there two of them but the left side only has one (and a hole where the other one used to be)

In another place on the field it looks like someone just replaced them with long nails

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#17 3 months ago

Looks like the nails are 4d 1-1/2" Bright Finish Nails with the head cut off.
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Decided I might as well learn as much as possible on how this thing is put together and make cleaning easier by removing everything off the playfield, . Removed pop bumpers, targets, flippers and nails. I used twisties to secure the targets to their respective lightbulb socket underneath the playfield so they are strain relieved and do not move around and get accidentally pinched.
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How do I remove the white sheet metal piece at bottom of the playfield. When I removed the two screws from the front and lifted the piece over the brackets I figured it would be able to move forward and slide of the brackets that hold it in place in the back. It feels like it is still totally stuck and did not want to force it. Is there another screw somewhere?
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Two of the flippers had loose screws and the spring tension on one of them was almost non-existent. I noticed the white base of that flipper has a crack in it and the whole base is wobbly. Could I just replace that plastic piece if everything else seems to be working okay? Does anyone have a part number?
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Still waiting for the other parts to come in. Little cleaning and putting it back together and hopefully it works and looks great again.

I know there is a lot of debate about which light bulbs to use. I really like the the brightness of the 44. That certainly drew me in as a kid. Less heat and less power draw of the 47 seems like a better long term idea. For this machine I will not do LEDs to keep it as close to original as possible. I have a set of 44's and 47's and will populate the left side with one and the right side with the other to see what it looks like and then pick a winner.

#21 3 months ago

I got the apron off. Looks in great shape so I'm going it alone. My apron removal tool of a wooden dowel with a cut off finger of work glove worked great and no marks)

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#22 3 months ago

... leave it alone ...

#23 3 months ago

Almost there:
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There where several miscellaneous pieces in the coin box when I got the machine. I’ve identified all of them except for one. I’m hoping this does not belong somewhere inside the pinball. Does this look like a part I’d need?
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#26 3 months ago

Decided to also take the wooden side rails off. All screw, except for a single nail near the top of the PF. Used two sheets of plastic (lid from local dairy farm ice cream container) and two putty knifes to very carefully lift wood rail from the nail. Also used this to remove the low metal bars near the flippers. I use this 'technique' a lot on non pin projects where I need to pry something but do not want to damage the surface. Works well for me and have great control on amount and distribution of force.
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Used folded paper to push down rollover wires. That way I did not have to unscrew them from the bottom of the PF and the paper is preventing cleaning agents to make it down the slit. Fit perfectly.
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With the PF now completely empty:
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After vacuuming:
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After Naphtha:
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Tested Sharpie Paint Pen under apron area (and within that underneath one of the brackets))
Works nice and I verified it can be MillWax-ed and/or Novus2-ed. Test worked so I fixed the 2X bonus insert line.
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#27 3 months ago

I reread about 100 topics on cleaning. Decided to test the two most popular methods.
After naphtha I tried both Novus2 and MillWax on the very top and bottom PF which is underneath metal skirts/aprons.
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MillWax seemed and felt slightly better so I went with that.
Did one application to clean and then one that I let sit and dry:
IMG_4469_PF_AfterMillWax (resized).jpeg

Is there any point to do a second MillWax while I have the PF bare?

#28 3 months ago

(the second MillWax I buffed out after about 1 hour)

#29 3 months ago

Do you 'glue' the new mylar pieces in pace underneath the pop bumpers? Or just lay them down on the waxed PF?

#32 3 months ago

Perfect. Let the PF repopulate begin…..

#33 3 months ago

The posts in the pin had regular black o-rings on them when I got it. The black rubber has stained the posts black. I tried different cleaning methods (dish soap, alcohol, novus2, millwax) but it is not coming off at all
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I have new white posts but they are very white and look ‘too new’.
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The old posts are also slightly heavier and feel a bit sturdier.
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although I’m sure the new ones will hold up fine, I’d like to use the old posts if I can clean them. Has anyone successfully cleaned ‘regular black o-ring rubber’ stains from posts?

#36 3 months ago

Hi TheLaw, I wanted to make the distinction that previous owner put in (too) thick standard automotive o-rings instead of softer pinball rubbers in case that made a difference for the cleaning. Will refrain from using the O-word from now on

I tried playing with the locations and rotation of the posts but there is no way to avoid the black deposits showing in lots of places and they are very obvious, especially with the new white rubbers.

Was hoping to get at least some of the black rubber off the posts.

Hi Peruman, I’ll try the Krud Kutter and maybe ultrasonic cleaner if that doesn’t work

Rails and top apron back on and couple target back up
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#38 3 months ago

Tried 17 different cleaning products ranging from baking soda to bleach. Below is a sampling of results. There are a couple posts in the dishwasher right now. Current score: stain 40, cleaners 0
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Decided to start putting things back together with the new posts. (Will continue to play with trying to clean the old ones.)

Used weather stripping in the top bracket for the glass as suggested by TheLaw
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First lights are back in. About 85 to go. Sticking with 44s.
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Current status.
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It going to look pretty nice.

#39 3 months ago

Cleaned the pop-up bumpers and re-installed them. Soldered light back, cleaned and adjusted spoons. New Mylar.
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All targets back in position.
Total lights installed: 9

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#40 3 months ago

Making my way down the PF. Just flippers, pins, plastics and ball entry metal parts that go under the apron left to do. Correct center configuration with new posts and rubbers to answer the original post question.
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All 88 lights seem to work. All rollover wires, pop-up bumpers, targets and spinners work and advance score.
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Need to trace a problem when bonus hits 15000 it looks like something shorts because half the machine turns dark. Probably moved some wires around when inserting lightbulbs in the back of PF

Waiting for flipper bushings to come in the mail.
Almost ready to play…..

#41 3 months ago

King Kool cleaned:
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Back in place using TheLaw recommended replacement white rubber post caps:
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Plastics and ball ramp done:
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#43 3 months ago

Burned out first fuse. To make sure there wasn’t something majorly wrong and in continuous learning mode I decided to take the bottom panel out of the cabinet. I didn’t find anything interesting in the cabinet except for a cute shipping support bracket, some labels and an old light bulb.
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Wiring looks okay and basic checks with DVM show no shorts.
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Is there a recommended fuse to use in pins? I didn’t realize there are a million choices and the manual does not specify? Below is a picture of the fuse ‘box’ and the fuses that are currently in there.
image (resized).jpg

I did notice the coil banks were completely lose so I’ll tighten them back down. Beside basic vacuuming of dirt, is there anything that would be advantageous to do while I have the bottom out of the cabinet and easily accessible?

Should I clean this? Clean the contacts? Grease anything?
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Status snapshot
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#44 3 months ago

Vacuumed and swiffered cabinet. Cleaned bottom board
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#45 3 months ago

Bottom back in
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#46 89 days ago

Back after long weekend in New York. Put two flippers back in with new bushings.
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Noticed a broken screw in a couple of the other screw holes for the flipper bushing
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I’ll try to drill out the old screws tomorrow or rotate bushing and use three new holes.

I found a couple places that have the slotted 1/2 inch zinc plated steel screws and zinc washers. Will need to get some as the current screws that held the bushings are too short and some are broken.

Has any one used the following successfully?

Screws:
https://www.fastenermart.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SC185-1632&Store_Code=H

The bolt depot is out of the 1/2 inch screws:
https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2147

#47 88 days ago

Just a couple 5A slow-blo fuses away…
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#48 88 days ago

Pin has power. But it is stuck in the game over mode. What are some things to check to advance to start of game? I did not take the coin door apart yet…

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#50 87 days ago

Hi Peruman,

If I manually ‘energize’ the start relay (S) the scoring motor runs, it resets all the scoring reels and lights up ball1 player1 and throws the ball in the shooter lane. Flipper buttons operate flippers.

Hold relay (R) and tilt hold relay (H) are energized. Pushing any of the rollover wire or targets does nothing. If I turn off power I see the hold and tilt hold relay de-energize.

If I force a tilt moving the plumb ball or tilt roll switch, the tilt relay (T) fires and PF lights go off as expected. If I depress the ball return switch, the tilt does not reset. If I manually activate the ball return relay (O) the tilt clears and ball is kicked to shooter lane.

I did notice that the ball does not advance to ball2 at that point.

I took a picture of this other ‘bank of relays’. The way the switches are positioned seems wrong and no switch ever changes state when the metal bar moves from rest to full stroke.
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Are the switches supposed to rest on the plastic rollers?

If I manually cycle the bulls eye target value relay (D) the score advances 500 points and the chime box dings 5x as it should. If I then do a manual reset by pushing the reset relay, the score motor turns and all scores go back to zero.

The replay unit never changes replay count on restart. I can manually add or subtract replays by moving the plungers by hand. The entire unit is a bit wobbly but It seems to be mounted like that on purpose. The decrement plunger is sticky.
image (resized).jpg

I verified that all the tilt switches introduces tilt behavior and that the tamper switches (bottom board, coin door, head box) are all NC and if I open them the pin ‘shuts down’

A couple days ago I was able to start the game and push the different targets and have the score register on all roll over wires, targets and pop-up bumpers. The next day I noticed I had a blown fuse ( see pic couple post earlier). I replaced with appropriate fuse. All fuses are okay

#51 87 days ago

Looking at the schematic, it looks if either reset control relay (SB) or game over relay (QB) are open the entire scoring section would not work. Indicated by the cashew nuts in the picture.
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Since I see the game over light turn off and that is tied to QB as well, I’m assuming I have an issue with the reset circuit.

#52 86 days ago

Cleaned all the jones plugs (M&F) and checked for broken wires and bad solder joints. Everything looks okay.

After cleaning I can now start the game by pressing the red start button on the coin door.
If I make the contact on the coin chute switches, the game also start and the player counter increases.
Flippers are active.
The popup bumpers are working in the sense they kick the ball around but they do not keep score.

What puzzles me is that if I activate the bulls eye target value relay (D) the score reel advances for the active player. So I guess the connection to the HB must be okay!?

Besides keeping score, 'everything' works.

#53 84 days ago

Fixed it!!!!

Looked at a simple path that didn’t work.
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Verified 5B was toggling correctly and was closed. That only left motor 1C (or broken wire).
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Verified closing it made scoring work. Made a crude adjustment tool and adjusted 1C to see if game would play.
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Need some better adjustment (will get the PBR adjustment tool) but the scoring issue has been resolved…..
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#55 84 days ago

Hi bigguybbr & vid1900 ,
I used the sharpie oil based paint pen, not a ‘regular’ sharpie.

They come from very fine point to large tips.

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

#57 80 days ago

I want to thank everyone for their help getting me started and welcoming me to the wonderful hobby of pinball. I appreciate it!!

Rebuild one of the decagon units that would get stuck on 9-1/2.
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As always great information on pinside that showed what to do: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-2001-decagon-score-reels-sticking-on-9#post-1452282

I also found this video from pinball museum very helpful:

Last couple issues:
1) sometimes the spinners add 1,000 bonus points for every 10 points. The same is true for the 10 point pop bumpers

2) The end of game match score lights never turn on. Machine does award a free game every now and the so I think the matching actually works. I verified the light bulb each match score light works when individually powered.

3) second player score reel lights sometimes turn off. Scoring still works for player2

4) twice the game played a 5ball game even though I set the selection to 3ball game

#59 78 days ago

Hi Alberto,

1) I’ll check gap on that. I took PF and bottom board back out to clean all jones plug and check all switches. When I manually activate the spinner switch very carefully it still adds 1,000 bonus. So I don’t think it is vibration

2+3) following schematic and noticed some different wires than expected in the HB.
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The player2 reel lights are fed by what looks like modern wiring:
55C858FB-B351-418D-BA04-7BC2DE13C10E (resized).jpeg

Same is true for player1 reel lights:
71ACBE8C-750B-4E38-B40D-B642DFFD6A3A (resized).jpeg

They blue wire for player2 lights connects to the old what looks like green-orange (I don’t see any GR-RED coming up from the Jones plug so maybe this GR-OR is it?). I still need to trace this to the 2nd player relay (QB)
08D442F2-80C2-47D7-A089-AA5DC1C034E3 (resized).jpeg

Since it (basically) works for player2 and on a game over both player1 and player2 light up, I think the connections is okay. My main question is if this is original or modified wiring?

4) default is 5player game. I cleaned the jones plug. Will see what it does when I put the game back together

Some new questions:

5) there is a jumper (looks like new plastic wiring) between motor connection 1C6 (opens circuit to play board contacts and bonus unit control circuit) and 1A3 (scoring). Is that supposed to be there?
1C8273FE-CE69-4838-BE2E-3A92552DBC1A (resized).jpeg

I noticed the open gap on 1A3 is less than 1mm so I’ll adjust that.

6) on the player2 relay (PB) in the control bank one switch is always made. It is closed regardless if PB is pulled in or not.
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Is that ‘normal’ or should I gap it like this?
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7) there are several jumpers between PB (2nd player relay) and QB (end of game relay). Does that make sense?
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#61 74 days ago

Thanks Alberto/Peruman,

I verified the relay switches and I think they are now all correct. The SB relay is a 2A,2B so I did gap it like the second picture.

After cleaning all jones plug, cleaning the the disc contacts on the 00-90 disc unit relay, and gapping the switches I put the pin back together.

The 00-90 match lights are now working and on match will add a game.
4B737D14-283F-4EDA-946A-3178530651E5 (resized).jpeg

3 versus 5 ball selection is working properly. Unplugged = 5balls per game.

Solved #1
The problem with the 10 point spinner always adding 1000 bonus was a problem with the ‘9’ switch in the advance unit relay (G) It had trouble making it past the 9 position. The 9th position switch stays closed and the spinner adds 1,000 bonus always instead of only every 10 cycles. Cleaned unit and adjusted 9 switch so it no longer gets stuck. That fixed the problem.
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Someone fixed this in the past:
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Spring loaded contacts still live up properly with disc contacts. Cleaned electrical contacts and applied (tiny bit) PBR contact disk grease.

Everything is working except for one issue I introduced with last rebuild: the 1st 3rd and 5th ball are skipped. I must have misaligned one of the rotary disks as this was working before

Almost there ….

#62 70 days ago

Success!!! Everything is working!!!

Contrary to what I wrote in my last post, the original fix on the rotating contact plate for the player unit was flimsy and the contact was intermittent. (What is the correct name for this piece?) The way it was glued together also made it so you could not adjust the piece to better align the contacts.
AADED3FB-17C6-4CFE-9FB6-5E12077FCCE8 (resized).jpeg

Removed the old glue (borh epoxy and what seemed like a JB weld substance).
B53BCE64-AFE7-420C-8D3D-5B6A7442F78A (resized).jpeg

Glued original two pieces back together. Shaped a buffalo wild wing gift card and epoxied it across the cracks to stiffen the whole thing.
96A901EA-457F-46C5-8763-73339A8C8C1F (resized).jpeg
8F9B5CF1-48CF-425A-B141-B03C727BD166 (resized).jpeg

Extended it to ensure flat surface for the retaining metal piece.
81D85308-8718-427C-8490-F9861A6942A8 (resized).jpeg
3B4E6B5B-B95D-4534-BD1F-0E175D9FC1F0 (resized).jpeg

I was going to paint it but decided to leave it yellow so it is obvious this is not original . I’ll get a replacement piece at some point.

After putting the player unit back together with the new piece the game worked except that the ball would not launch from drain to shooter lane. Manually flicking it through makes everything work.

Realigned the bonus unit and it is all working as it should. Will now enjoy playing it for a while. Maybe after that try to do the PF?!

Thanks again for everyone’s help.

#64 70 days ago

All inserts are cupped (a lot). Was contemplating clear coating and using vid’s techniques to get it all filled/flat.

I’ll do some more reading before I even attempt this. Won’t happen for a while anyway as my wife and I just got a new house that needs some work. Pin will be on hold for a couple months.

Maybe I can find a different PD to practice on so I don’t ruin the King Kool one.

#66 70 days ago

I like that approach. Will try that. The game is fun to play but it is a bit funky when you see ball runs in arcs around the inserts .

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