(Topic ID: 301819)

King Kool center target layout

By hofmeester

2 years ago


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There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

After 30 years of wanting to work on a pinball machine, I finally got a Gottlieb King Kool last week from Facebook marketplace.

The machine is in good shape and basically worked after I fixed the short in the reset circuit. I have a question about the placement of the posts and the o-ring surrounding the center target (see pic). The way the o-ring goes around the 5 posts means you have to remove the posts for the spinners to replace the o-ring. That seems a bit 'weird' from a maintenance standpoint. I noticed that one of the posts was replaced with the base of a xmas tree light and that might be the reason it is done this way.

Should the o-ring be on the inside (currently on the outside) of the posts that support the spinners?
Does anyone have a picture of the official configuration?

What is a good place to find a replacement post?

--Nico

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#2 2 years ago

Looks like the two front posts have their own rubbers, and probably one on the back three.

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1371&picno=41895

Pinball Resource is the best place for Gottlieb EM parts. You can get a rubber kit and a map of where they go.

Welcome!

#3 2 years ago

Correct, 2 front are singles and back 3 posts share a rubber

#4 2 years ago

Thanks @dr_nybble. I'm excited to start this journey.

I have question about top rail bracket that the glass slides into. It used to have some padding that has decayed completely into black sticky goop. I was going to use some foam tape to replace it. Is there a best practice on what to replace this with?

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#5 2 years ago

Adhesive Weather stripping...pick it up at any hardware store

#6 2 years ago

Thanks @TheLaw. That would probably explain what happened. A post was ripped out when someone tried to stretch an O-ring across all five posts. I thought it was weird to have target covered by a rubber.

I'm assuming that the o-rings in the picture that were in a bag in the coinbox and installed throughout the machine are not official pinball rubbers?! I noticed that some lane guards are being pushed outwards because the rubber is too think. How do I identify pinball rubbers versus regular o-rings? Is there a place that would spec all the rubbers needed for a Kool King?

Do they sell the little white post caps that hold the plastics in place? Four were replaced with tiny black black rubber 'thingies' It does not too bad but I'd like to get the original white caps.

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#7 2 years ago

I'm sure they are available places but I always replace with these, easier to take off and look better to me

https://www.pinballlife.com/white-post-caps.html
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/38-6543

Your rubbers should be white for sure, not black. White bounces more than black.
Here's a pre-made set
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/RK1418-1
Of course its always nice to buy some extras to have laying around

Edit: they are all rubbers, we don't use the term O-Ring. They are identified by their size in inches and fractions. So around star posts they would be 3/8", around the slingshot area would be 2.5" etc etc

#8 2 years ago

Awesome. Thanks for the links. I'll order the rubber kit and caps to replace them all.
Appreciate everyones help.

I was just looking at one of the white posts.
Looks like a perfect candidate for 3D printing.
Has anyone tried to 3D print them and how did it come out?

#9 2 years ago

No need to 3d print they are available

http://www.pbresource.com/posts.html
The only problem is the new ones are new and all the others are worn in for 50 years

#10 2 years ago

Welcome to the hobby, you might want to make room for a couple more pinballs. Your playfield is in awesome shape, nice find.

Definetely order the rubber kit from Marco. It will have all the rubbers you need for the game along with a diagram of where they go. The rubber on your flippers are not correct either. The Marco kit will have the correct ones. I would also order a new ball if you have not already done so.

Alberto

#11 2 years ago

I got my shopping cart at Marco filled with goodies. Including rubbers, posts, post caps and ball. Exciting!! Need to add a couple more items and looking for input on the following:

Playfield Cleaning:
There are so many products, reviews, procedures and opinions on what to use to clean the playfield. From what I read, it seems like CP-100 to clean and then Novus#2 to 'polish' would be the thing to do for this King Kool EM. Do I then still wax after that? Thoughts?

Tiny metal posts:
I can't locate a part number for the tiny metal posts that are on either side of the spinner arm feedthrough and in a couple other places on the field. The diameter is 1.5mm and they stick out 24mm.

Pop Bumpers:
I guess I should take these off before cleaning the play field. What do people use to remove the plastic ring that is glued to the playfield. Two of them are completely loose but one is still stuck to the playfield.

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#12 2 years ago

You need to remove the pop bumper to change the protective mylar. The pop bumper body is held in place by the two screws inside of it (easy enough to remove) and then also by the bulb socket which is soldered to wires that run under the playfield.

The subject of playfield cleaning will lead you to endless techniques and sources. Be very careful using Novus 2 on an EM. The clear coat on an EM is thin, the Novus will take it right off.

What I like to do is vacuum the playfield with a soft brush attachment for my shop vac, then clean it with naphtha on a shop rag, and then two coats of wax. Wax is key to protect the paint. Use 100% carnauba wax like Blitz Wax.

Hope this helps

Alberto

#13 2 years ago

What is wrong with the existing metal posts for the spinner? Can you post a photo of the ones you have?

#14 2 years ago

You can just use a razor blade to cut the mylar ring and then rip it out with plyers if you don't want to take everything off; up to you. Canned air upside down will probably freeze the other one off quick.

Yes there could be lots of winning in the cleaning dept thats for sure. Personally I would use novus 2 for the filthy areas; clean it quick and go,

#15 2 years ago

Post itself is fine. I’m looking for what almost looks like a nail. On the right there two of them but the left side only has one (and a hole where the other one used to be)

In another place on the field it looks like someone just replaced them with long nails

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#16 2 years ago

They are nails. Nice to have but not necessary usually. You can get new nails or just move the one from under the plastic on you last pic to the spinner area missing one.

#17 2 years ago

Looks like the nails are 4d 1-1/2" Bright Finish Nails with the head cut off.
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Decided I might as well learn as much as possible on how this thing is put together and make cleaning easier by removing everything off the playfield, . Removed pop bumpers, targets, flippers and nails. I used twisties to secure the targets to their respective lightbulb socket underneath the playfield so they are strain relieved and do not move around and get accidentally pinched.
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How do I remove the white sheet metal piece at bottom of the playfield. When I removed the two screws from the front and lifted the piece over the brackets I figured it would be able to move forward and slide of the brackets that hold it in place in the back. It feels like it is still totally stuck and did not want to force it. Is there another screw somewhere?
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Two of the flippers had loose screws and the spring tension on one of them was almost non-existent. I noticed the white base of that flipper has a crack in it and the whole base is wobbly. Could I just replace that plastic piece if everything else seems to be working okay? Does anyone have a part number?
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Still waiting for the other parts to come in. Little cleaning and putting it back together and hopefully it works and looks great again.

I know there is a lot of debate about which light bulbs to use. I really like the the brightness of the 44. That certainly drew me in as a kid. Less heat and less power draw of the 47 seems like a better long term idea. For this machine I will not do LEDs to keep it as close to original as possible. I have a set of 44's and 47's and will populate the left side with one and the right side with the other to see what it looks like and then pick a winner.

#18 2 years ago

I wouldn't worry aboot 44s; in a home setting it won't get even a fraction of time they did back in the day.

That's called a flipper bushing

https://www.pinballlife.com/williams-nylon-flipper-bushing-03-6014.html

#19 2 years ago

The white piece of metal is called the apron. It’s held in place by the two screws and the four brackets. It can be difficult to pop out. I normally try to work my fingers behind it near the outhole to help push it forward.

One word of caution, for some reason, the inks they used to silkscreen the apron never really hold well to it. Clean it lightly (or not at all), the red and blue ink can come off pretty easy. Your apron looks good so I would leave it be.

Once you remove it, clean the tracks the ball runs on, those get really dirty.

As you take any pieces off the pinball, take lots of photos to help you with reassembly.

#20 2 years ago

Another area to be careful with cleaning are the pop bumper bodies and caps. Those inks also don’t stay on well.

#21 2 years ago

I got the apron off. Looks in great shape so I'm going it alone. My apron removal tool of a wooden dowel with a cut off finger of work glove worked great and no marks)

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#22 2 years ago

... leave it alone ...

#23 2 years ago

Almost there:
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There where several miscellaneous pieces in the coin box when I got the machine. I’ve identified all of them except for one. I’m hoping this does not belong somewhere inside the pinball. Does this look like a part I’d need?
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#24 2 years ago

looks like part of the coin mech

#25 2 years ago

hofmeester

That PF is gorgeous. Great find!

Following your progress on this thread.

#26 2 years ago

Decided to also take the wooden side rails off. All screw, except for a single nail near the top of the PF. Used two sheets of plastic (lid from local dairy farm ice cream container) and two putty knifes to very carefully lift wood rail from the nail. Also used this to remove the low metal bars near the flippers. I use this 'technique' a lot on non pin projects where I need to pry something but do not want to damage the surface. Works well for me and have great control on amount and distribution of force.
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Used folded paper to push down rollover wires. That way I did not have to unscrew them from the bottom of the PF and the paper is preventing cleaning agents to make it down the slit. Fit perfectly.
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With the PF now completely empty:
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After vacuuming:
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After Naphtha:
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Tested Sharpie Paint Pen under apron area (and within that underneath one of the brackets))
Works nice and I verified it can be MillWax-ed and/or Novus2-ed. Test worked so I fixed the 2X bonus insert line.
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#27 2 years ago

I reread about 100 topics on cleaning. Decided to test the two most popular methods.
After naphtha I tried both Novus2 and MillWax on the very top and bottom PF which is underneath metal skirts/aprons.
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MillWax seemed and felt slightly better so I went with that.
Did one application to clean and then one that I let sit and dry:
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Is there any point to do a second MillWax while I have the PF bare?

#28 2 years ago

(the second MillWax I buffed out after about 1 hour)

#29 2 years ago

Do you 'glue' the new mylar pieces in pace underneath the pop bumpers? Or just lay them down on the waxed PF?

#30 2 years ago

Just lay it down as it is adhesive.
Don't know aboot laying it over wax.

#31 2 years ago

I use the non-adhesive mylar plates. I lay them down over the waxed playfield and the pop bumper locks them into place

Alberto

#32 2 years ago

Perfect. Let the PF repopulate begin…..

#33 2 years ago

The posts in the pin had regular black o-rings on them when I got it. The black rubber has stained the posts black. I tried different cleaning methods (dish soap, alcohol, novus2, millwax) but it is not coming off at all
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I have new white posts but they are very white and look ‘too new’.
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The old posts are also slightly heavier and feel a bit sturdier.
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although I’m sure the new ones will hold up fine, I’d like to use the old posts if I can clean them. Has anyone successfully cleaned ‘regular black o-ring rubber’ stains from posts?

#34 2 years ago

Try soaking them in Krud Kutter, it works really well for me.

Alberto

#35 2 years ago

They're rubbers, not o rings.
There is nothing you can do to make old posts look like new ones, like I said above. Yiur best best is to use one type where they are easily seen and the other under plastics

#36 2 years ago

Hi @thelaw, I wanted to make the distinction that previous owner put in (too) thick standard automotive o-rings instead of softer pinball rubbers in case that made a difference for the cleaning. Will refrain from using the O-word from now on

I tried playing with the locations and rotation of the posts but there is no way to avoid the black deposits showing in lots of places and they are very obvious, especially with the new white rubbers.

Was hoping to get at least some of the black rubber off the posts.

Hi @peruman, I’ll try the Krud Kutter and maybe ultrasonic cleaner if that doesn’t work

Rails and top apron back on and couple target back up
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#37 2 years ago
Quoted from hofmeester:

...there is no way to avoid the black deposits showing in lots of places and they are very obvious, especially with the new white rubbers.

Yeah i think Elbow grease here is the only answer. Some Krud Kutter as stated above, a hard bristled brush, old electric toothbrush etc. Goo Gone even is worth a shot. Through every thing at it

But overall that's just a classic problem with old machines; OG vs new parts. Go with all new posts and spend monies, but they look "too new." Go with all old but they look "too old." believe me we've all been there; at some point you just have to choose a path and go.
Good luck & keep it up.

#38 2 years ago

Tried 17 different cleaning products ranging from baking soda to bleach. Below is a sampling of results. There are a couple posts in the dishwasher right now. Current score: stain 40, cleaners 0
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Decided to start putting things back together with the new posts. (Will continue to play with trying to clean the old ones.)

Used weather stripping in the top bracket for the glass as suggested by TheLaw
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First lights are back in. About 85 to go. Sticking with 44s.
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Current status.
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It going to look pretty nice.

#39 2 years ago

Cleaned the pop-up bumpers and re-installed them. Soldered light back, cleaned and adjusted spoons. New Mylar.
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All targets back in position.
Total lights installed: 9

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#40 2 years ago

Making my way down the PF. Just flippers, pins, plastics and ball entry metal parts that go under the apron left to do. Correct center configuration with new posts and rubbers to answer the original post question.
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All 88 lights seem to work. All rollover wires, pop-up bumpers, targets and spinners work and advance score.
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Need to trace a problem when bonus hits 15000 it looks like something shorts because half the machine turns dark. Probably moved some wires around when inserting lightbulbs in the back of PF

Waiting for flipper bushings to come in the mail.
Almost ready to play…..

#41 2 years ago

King Kool cleaned:
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Back in place using TheLaw recommended replacement white rubber post caps:
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Plastics and ball ramp done:
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#42 2 years ago

Looking sharp!

#43 2 years ago

Burned out first fuse. To make sure there wasn’t something majorly wrong and in continuous learning mode I decided to take the bottom panel out of the cabinet. I didn’t find anything interesting in the cabinet except for a cute shipping support bracket, some labels and an old light bulb.
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Wiring looks okay and basic checks with DVM show no shorts.
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Is there a recommended fuse to use in pins? I didn’t realize there are a million choices and the manual does not specify? Below is a picture of the fuse ‘box’ and the fuses that are currently in there.
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I did notice the coil banks were completely lose so I’ll tighten them back down. Beside basic vacuuming of dirt, is there anything that would be advantageous to do while I have the bottom out of the cabinet and easily accessible?

Should I clean this? Clean the contacts? Grease anything?
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Status snapshot
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#44 2 years ago

Vacuumed and swiffered cabinet. Cleaned bottom board
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#45 2 years ago

Bottom back in
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#46 2 years ago

Back after long weekend in New York. Put two flippers back in with new bushings.
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Noticed a broken screw in a couple of the other screw holes for the flipper bushing
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I’ll try to drill out the old screws tomorrow or rotate bushing and use three new holes.

I found a couple places that have the slotted 1/2 inch zinc plated steel screws and zinc washers. Will need to get some as the current screws that held the bushings are too short and some are broken.

Has any one used the following successfully?

Screws:
https://www.fastenermart.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SC185-1632&Store_Code=H

The bolt depot is out of the 1/2 inch screws:
https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2147

#47 2 years ago

Just a couple 5A slow-blo fuses away…
C9E0FCC1-BF6E-4C6A-9618-2842C14B207B (resized).jpegC9E0FCC1-BF6E-4C6A-9618-2842C14B207B (resized).jpeg
8B73014A-D889-472D-A013-19DFB40B3BEB (resized).jpeg8B73014A-D889-472D-A013-19DFB40B3BEB (resized).jpeg

#48 2 years ago

Pin has power. But it is stuck in the game over mode. What are some things to check to advance to start of game? I did not take the coin door apart yet…

346BD1FB-D6D2-49A9-B413-C74A601810B9 (resized).jpeg346BD1FB-D6D2-49A9-B413-C74A601810B9 (resized).jpeg

#49 2 years ago

After you press start, is the scoring motor running continuously? Do the score reels try to reset?

Can you give us more details as to what is happening? It will make debug more straightforward

#50 2 years ago

Hi @peruman,

If I manually ‘energize’ the start relay (S) the scoring motor runs, it resets all the scoring reels and lights up ball1 player1 and throws the ball in the shooter lane. Flipper buttons operate flippers.

Hold relay (R) and tilt hold relay (H) are energized. Pushing any of the rollover wire or targets does nothing. If I turn off power I see the hold and tilt hold relay de-energize.

If I force a tilt moving the plumb ball or tilt roll switch, the tilt relay (T) fires and PF lights go off as expected. If I depress the ball return switch, the tilt does not reset. If I manually activate the ball return relay (O) the tilt clears and ball is kicked to shooter lane.

I did notice that the ball does not advance to ball2 at that point.

I took a picture of this other ‘bank of relays’. The way the switches are positioned seems wrong and no switch ever changes state when the metal bar moves from rest to full stroke.
9A1B4322-C3EC-40F9-8B14-5F023C7F6954 (resized).jpeg9A1B4322-C3EC-40F9-8B14-5F023C7F6954 (resized).jpeg
7BD77BB6-71F0-4EFB-9921-491E59C1A073 (resized).jpeg7BD77BB6-71F0-4EFB-9921-491E59C1A073 (resized).jpeg
4AE6ACED-A1B6-41EC-AEAC-BF9FDBB1312A (resized).jpeg4AE6ACED-A1B6-41EC-AEAC-BF9FDBB1312A (resized).jpeg
Are the switches supposed to rest on the plastic rollers?

If I manually cycle the bulls eye target value relay (D) the score advances 500 points and the chime box dings 5x as it should. If I then do a manual reset by pushing the reset relay, the score motor turns and all scores go back to zero.

The replay unit never changes replay count on restart. I can manually add or subtract replays by moving the plungers by hand. The entire unit is a bit wobbly but It seems to be mounted like that on purpose. The decrement plunger is sticky.
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

I verified that all the tilt switches introduces tilt behavior and that the tamper switches (bottom board, coin door, head box) are all NC and if I open them the pin ‘shuts down’

A couple days ago I was able to start the game and push the different targets and have the score register on all roll over wires, targets and pop-up bumpers. The next day I noticed I had a blown fuse ( see pic couple post earlier). I replaced with appropriate fuse. All fuses are okay

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