(Topic ID: 301819)

King Kool center target layout

By hofmeester

3 months ago

Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 66 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 70 days ago by hofmeester
  • No one calls this topic a favorite


Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

AADED3FB-17C6-4CFE-9FB6-5E12077FCCE8 (resized).jpeg
3B4E6B5B-B95D-4534-BD1F-0E175D9FC1F0 (resized).jpeg
B53BCE64-AFE7-420C-8D3D-5B6A7442F78A (resized).jpeg
96A901EA-457F-46C5-8763-73339A8C8C1F (resized).jpeg
8F9B5CF1-48CF-425A-B141-B03C727BD166 (resized).jpeg
81D85308-8718-427C-8490-F9861A6942A8 (resized).jpeg
ABEC71F6-2287-4155-A143-D909766541F4 (resized).jpeg
BB6772EA-2360-4DA8-BEAE-C0FC4FA68911 (resized).jpeg
AB0D8968-3F20-4382-86A9-1A397614C85F (resized).jpeg
4B737D14-283F-4EDA-946A-3178530651E5 (resized).jpeg
9D42C39E-23CB-4B7F-9ADF-6AD3FDFA4961 (resized).jpeg
BA509813-29A2-46BB-BFFC-4E5DF6486F96 (resized).jpeg
125226A1-8C2E-4C90-94F4-BC82D811D226 (resized).jpeg
06A3BDE2-ACA5-49BB-9F87-30236B36C4B5 (resized).jpeg
81D54B20-ECA8-41AC-AAF5-D410AB9B717E (resized).jpeg
1C8273FE-CE69-4838-BE2E-3A92552DBC1A (resized).jpeg

There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 87 days ago

Looking at the schematic, it looks if either reset control relay (SB) or game over relay (QB) are open the entire scoring section would not work. Indicated by the cashew nuts in the picture.
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

Since I see the game over light turn off and that is tied to QB as well, I’m assuming I have an issue with the reset circuit.

#52 86 days ago

Cleaned all the jones plugs (M&F) and checked for broken wires and bad solder joints. Everything looks okay.

After cleaning I can now start the game by pressing the red start button on the coin door.
If I make the contact on the coin chute switches, the game also start and the player counter increases.
Flippers are active.
The popup bumpers are working in the sense they kick the ball around but they do not keep score.

What puzzles me is that if I activate the bulls eye target value relay (D) the score reel advances for the active player. So I guess the connection to the HB must be okay!?

Besides keeping score, 'everything' works.

#53 84 days ago

Fixed it!!!!

Looked at a simple path that didn’t work.
FA9C4910-795F-4A37-A5B8-4F112125A2AA (resized).jpeg

Verified 5B was toggling correctly and was closed. That only left motor 1C (or broken wire).
DDD504C7-1259-44DA-9105-A285C9DEF872 (resized).jpeg

Verified closing it made scoring work. Made a crude adjustment tool and adjusted 1C to see if game would play.
07C0AC29-3491-4F5F-8791-208CFBBEBFD6 (resized).jpeg
F2D80A13-B04F-4910-9BA3-6F868B1BA267 (resized).jpeg

Need some better adjustment (will get the PBR adjustment tool) but the scoring issue has been resolved…..
36458266-8504-4BDF-9CAC-8A5870ACFA96 (resized).jpeg

#54 84 days ago
Quoted from hofmeester:

Tested Sharpie Paint Pen under apron area (and within that underneath one of the brackets))
Works nice and I verified it can be MillWax-ed and/or Novus2-ed. Test worked so I fixed the 2X bonus insert line.

For future reference, sharpies on playfields are a big no-no. Next time use an acrylic paint pen. From the guy who wrote the guide on playfield restoration:

Quoted from vid1900:

If you, or the poor sucker who buys the game from you, ever decides to protect it by clearcoating, the Sharpie runs into the clearcoat, ruining it.
Don't use Testor's enamel paints either, they do the same thing.
Use acrylic paints (like Createx), or make some water slide decals.

#55 84 days ago

Hi bigguybbr & vid1900 ,
I used the sharpie oil based paint pen, not a ‘regular’ sharpie.

They come from very fine point to large tips.

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

#56 84 days ago

Nice job on the debug of the issues keeping the game from playing the way it’s supposed to.


#57 80 days ago

I want to thank everyone for their help getting me started and welcoming me to the wonderful hobby of pinball. I appreciate it!!

Rebuild one of the decagon units that would get stuck on 9-1/2.
275055FB-0714-4E14-BF84-C593E8C07AFC (resized).jpeg

As always great information on pinside that showed what to do: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-2001-decagon-score-reels-sticking-on-9#post-1452282

I also found this video from pinball museum very helpful:

Last couple issues:
1) sometimes the spinners add 1,000 bonus points for every 10 points. The same is true for the 10 point pop bumpers

2) The end of game match score lights never turn on. Machine does award a free game every now and the so I think the matching actually works. I verified the light bulb each match score light works when individually powered.

3) second player score reel lights sometimes turn off. Scoring still works for player2

4) twice the game played a 5ball game even though I set the selection to 3ball game

#58 80 days ago

Looking at your issues:

1) could you have a 1000-point scoring switch that is gapped too tight and the spinner/pop bumper action is making it register?

2 & 3) look at your schematic and find the switches that control the Player 2 lights and the power to the Match Unit lights. Make sure all those switches are clean and gapped properly

4) I’m not familiar with King Kool, but the 3/5 ball setting is usually done by changing a Jones plug. Could the connectors be dirty? If you leave the Jones plug disconnected, what setting does it default to?


#59 78 days ago

Hi Alberto,

1) I’ll check gap on that. I took PF and bottom board back out to clean all jones plug and check all switches. When I manually activate the spinner switch very carefully it still adds 1,000 bonus. So I don’t think it is vibration

2+3) following schematic and noticed some different wires than expected in the HB.
B62C61F2-2396-44FE-B48A-34E9DA1A1072 (resized).jpeg

The player2 reel lights are fed by what looks like modern wiring:
55C858FB-B351-418D-BA04-7BC2DE13C10E (resized).jpeg

Same is true for player1 reel lights:
71ACBE8C-750B-4E38-B40D-B642DFFD6A3A (resized).jpeg

They blue wire for player2 lights connects to the old what looks like green-orange (I don’t see any GR-RED coming up from the Jones plug so maybe this GR-OR is it?). I still need to trace this to the 2nd player relay (QB)
08D442F2-80C2-47D7-A089-AA5DC1C034E3 (resized).jpeg

Since it (basically) works for player2 and on a game over both player1 and player2 light up, I think the connections is okay. My main question is if this is original or modified wiring?

4) default is 5player game. I cleaned the jones plug. Will see what it does when I put the game back together

Some new questions:

5) there is a jumper (looks like new plastic wiring) between motor connection 1C6 (opens circuit to play board contacts and bonus unit control circuit) and 1A3 (scoring). Is that supposed to be there?
1C8273FE-CE69-4838-BE2E-3A92552DBC1A (resized).jpeg

I noticed the open gap on 1A3 is less than 1mm so I’ll adjust that.

6) on the player2 relay (PB) in the control bank one switch is always made. It is closed regardless if PB is pulled in or not.
81D54B20-ECA8-41AC-AAF5-D410AB9B717E (resized).jpeg

Is that ‘normal’ or should I gap it like this?
06A3BDE2-ACA5-49BB-9F87-30236B36C4B5 (resized).jpeg

7) there are several jumpers between PB (2nd player relay) and QB (end of game relay). Does that make sense?
125226A1-8C2E-4C90-94F4-BC82D811D226 (resized).jpeg
BA509813-29A2-46BB-BFFC-4E5DF6486F96 (resized).jpeg

#60 75 days ago

EM’s do have modern wiring, they are not all cloth insulated wires.

On #5, look in the schematic to see if there needs to be a connection between those two switches or if they are connected to the same node.

On #6, that switch looks like it should be open. You can always check each switch stack on the schematic. Where it lists all of the relays, it will also tell you how many of each switch style a relay should have. For example, if a relay says 2A, 2B, 1C, this means that stack should have 2 normally open switches, 2 normally closed switches, and 1 make/break switch.

On #7, again check your schematic for those connections. I don’t have a King Kool so I can’t check that for you.


#61 74 days ago

Thanks Alberto/Peruman,

I verified the relay switches and I think they are now all correct. The SB relay is a 2A,2B so I did gap it like the second picture.

After cleaning all jones plug, cleaning the the disc contacts on the 00-90 disc unit relay, and gapping the switches I put the pin back together.

The 00-90 match lights are now working and on match will add a game.
4B737D14-283F-4EDA-946A-3178530651E5 (resized).jpeg

3 versus 5 ball selection is working properly. Unplugged = 5balls per game.

Solved #1
The problem with the 10 point spinner always adding 1000 bonus was a problem with the ‘9’ switch in the advance unit relay (G) It had trouble making it past the 9 position. The 9th position switch stays closed and the spinner adds 1,000 bonus always instead of only every 10 cycles. Cleaned unit and adjusted 9 switch so it no longer gets stuck. That fixed the problem.
BB6772EA-2360-4DA8-BEAE-C0FC4FA68911 (resized).jpeg
AB0D8968-3F20-4382-86A9-1A397614C85F (resized).jpeg

Someone fixed this in the past:
ABEC71F6-2287-4155-A143-D909766541F4 (resized).jpeg
9D42C39E-23CB-4B7F-9ADF-6AD3FDFA4961 (resized).jpeg
Spring loaded contacts still live up properly with disc contacts. Cleaned electrical contacts and applied (tiny bit) PBR contact disk grease.

Everything is working except for one issue I introduced with last rebuild: the 1st 3rd and 5th ball are skipped. I must have misaligned one of the rotary disks as this was working before

Almost there ….

#62 70 days ago

Success!!! Everything is working!!!

Contrary to what I wrote in my last post, the original fix on the rotating contact plate for the player unit was flimsy and the contact was intermittent. (What is the correct name for this piece?) The way it was glued together also made it so you could not adjust the piece to better align the contacts.
AADED3FB-17C6-4CFE-9FB6-5E12077FCCE8 (resized).jpeg

Removed the old glue (borh epoxy and what seemed like a JB weld substance).
B53BCE64-AFE7-420C-8D3D-5B6A7442F78A (resized).jpeg

Glued original two pieces back together. Shaped a buffalo wild wing gift card and epoxied it across the cracks to stiffen the whole thing.
96A901EA-457F-46C5-8763-73339A8C8C1F (resized).jpeg
8F9B5CF1-48CF-425A-B141-B03C727BD166 (resized).jpeg

Extended it to ensure flat surface for the retaining metal piece.
81D85308-8718-427C-8490-F9861A6942A8 (resized).jpeg
3B4E6B5B-B95D-4534-BD1F-0E175D9FC1F0 (resized).jpeg

I was going to paint it but decided to leave it yellow so it is obvious this is not original . I’ll get a replacement piece at some point.

After putting the player unit back together with the new piece the game worked except that the ball would not launch from drain to shooter lane. Manually flicking it through makes everything work.

Realigned the bonus unit and it is all working as it should. Will now enjoy playing it for a while. Maybe after that try to do the PF?!

Thanks again for everyone’s help.

#63 70 days ago

Congrats! Job well done

From the photos you posted, your PF looks very good. What work does it need?

#64 70 days ago

All inserts are cupped (a lot). Was contemplating clear coating and using vid’s techniques to get it all filled/flat.

I’ll do some more reading before I even attempt this. Won’t happen for a while anyway as my wife and I just got a new house that needs some work. Pin will be on hold for a couple months.

Maybe I can find a different PD to practice on so I don’t ruin the King Kool one.

#65 70 days ago

You don’t have to take the full clear coat approach. You can always just fill the inserts to get them level. I like to use MinWax Polycrylic in satin. Level the playfield and use a dropper to fill the inserts to level. Add the Polycrylic in small amounts and fill the inserts slowly.

This is just my approach.

#66 70 days ago

I like that approach. Will try that. The game is fun to play but it is a bit funky when you see ball runs in arcs around the inserts .

There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside