(Topic ID: 193345)

Kick Out Hole Update Opinions

By MikeO

4 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by MikeO
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Cylinder_Boring_Machine_Rottler (resized).jpg
DSC00791 (resized).jpg

#1 4 years ago

I'm woring on a Williams Trade Winds with a somewhat worn kickout hole.

I'm thinking about oversizing the hole to receive the later style Gottlieb hole liner. This would let me fill in the wear using the hole liner as a form and then touching it up.

The hole appears to be a little over 30mm in diameter without a liner. The liner looks to need a hole about 32mm. So the inner hole diameter would stay the same.

Has anyone else done this? Any pitfalls you'd be willing to share?

#2 4 years ago

Have a machine shop fashion a 30mm bushing/liner. Build up the wear with 5 to 1 epoxy thickened with sawdust and cabosil. The Gottlieb bottom plate sold by Pinball Resource can be used on Williams, at least a 69-70-71 Williams.

#3 4 years ago

I thought I had included a picture with my original post. I guess not.

I already have a Gottlieb liner used in the mid to late 70's games. A photo is below.

So the question is: Has anyone oversized a hole from an older game like this to install the Gottlieb liner?

DSC00791 (resized).jpg

#4 4 years ago

Wouldn't it be easier to cut down the liner a bit to fit?

#5 4 years ago

Tough hole to hit as it is. It just doesn't want to go in there.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Wouldn't it be easier to cut down the liner a bit to fit?

I could but then the inside hole diameter would be smaller, like O-Din says, making it harder to hit an already difficult shot.

Right now the wood hole diameter is basically the same inner diameter of the liner installed in a Gottlieb game that came with the liner to begin with. So oversizing the hole will allow the finished hole diameter to remain the same, making the difficulty level the same but protecting the hole edge from wear.

#7 4 years ago

Ah, that makes sense. How hard is it going to be to bore that hole out cleanly? If it works you eliminate some of the worn edge. Which would be nice. If it goes bad it could be ugly.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

How hard is it going to be to bore that hole out cleanly?

Easy, if you have the correct equipment.

Cylinder_Boring_Machine_Rottler (resized).jpg

#9 4 years ago

The properly sized forstner bit used on a drill press with a large enough throat would work. Unfortunately I don't have the drill press.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Easy, if you have the correct equipment.

Quoted from MikeO:

Unfortunately I don't have the drill press.

Drill press for sure. By hand would be a 100% fail IMO. Maybe a friend close to you has one? I like the idea of the Gottlieb Ring. Of course you could always contact Wade Krauss and get a new playfield with only 20 people needed and a 3 year wait ...... on second thought go for the drill press.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

The properly sized forstner bit used on a drill press with a large enough throat would work. Unfortunately I don't have the drill press.

But the use of the forstner bit IMO assumes you have no existing hole & you are boring a fresh one which ensures proper centering. I would think even using a drill press it would be extremely difficult to get a clean 32mm hole with an existing 30mm bore unless the job is so secured to the bench drill table absolutely no movement is possible. I would not try it.

#12 4 years ago

I could glue a plug and fill the hole then drill it back out.

#13 4 years ago

Mike,

Years ago, a guy I ran into at the York show had manufactured a seamless kickout hole protector. Very slick looking. I wish I had taken his contact info.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

4 weeks later
#14 4 years ago

I've looked at mine and I wouldn't metal sleeve it. The slightly beat up wood look is much better.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I've looked at mine and I wouldn't metal sleeve it. The slightly beat up wood look is much better.

I would have to agree.

You would be making it look even worse, not to mention doing away with its originality.

I think if anything, I mean if you couldn't 'live' with it as it is... the best way for someone who had the talent and knew what material to use, would be just to fill in the worn area (from the key line around the hole back) and then restore the little amount of paint missing over this patch, which looks to be primarily the red.

You ought to see my Zig Zag holes, looks like the worn area on your kick-out hole... except all the way around 'every' kick-out hole on the playfield. Seems like certain games, like Kings & Queens or Sing Along for instance... it's hard to get away from.

Incidentally, you still get 'some' wear on the sharp edges of the holes after awhile, even 'with' those metal ring hole protectors from Steve Young.

#16 4 years ago

I'm working on the game tonight and thought about fill and touch up without the ring.

It really isn't that bad but it got me wondering. I have a friend with a Gottlieb Paradise and all four holes have horrendous wear. One of these days we will tackle it. Probably with the metal epoxy fill and touch up. It can't look any worse.

You guys have convinced me to not update and to only subtlely repair it.

#17 4 years ago

Just play it and let it continue to kick your butt.

#18 4 years ago

It is already kicking my butt because I haven't gotten it playing yet. It is showing signs of life after reworking the steppers in the head but I haven't gotten the travel stepper working right. The playfield lites for travel don't light and the wiper on the travel stepper isn't aligned right. Looks like I need to pull the wiper disc to adjust the rivet plate to align to the wipers. I'm not used to this backward approach. Gottlieb lets you adjust it right there. Am I missing something?

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