(Topic ID: 263098)

Keith Elwin’s next game


By skink91

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 347 posts
  • 100 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 days ago by Lounge
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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There are 347 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Certain bash toys are epic-think Monger and Sparky. Now to have a game with no third flipper, no cool ramp configurations, and a single bash toy in middle-meh not my cup of tea.

Though I like both MET and IM, neither of those have either a third flipper or cool ramp configurations... right?

#252 83 days ago
Quoted from skink91:

Though I like both MET and IM, neither of those have either a third flipper or cool ramp configurations... right?

No just giving an example of cool bash toys. Think-Tron, X-MEN,etc. the list goes on and on. I get the guys defending Elwin designs(I love them too) just looking to switch things up is all.

#253 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Certain bash toys are epic-think Monger and Sparky.

Quoted from pinmister:

Now to have a game with no third flipper, no cool ramp configurations, and a single bash toy in middle-meh not my cup of tea.

Okay now I’m confused. Haha. I like center bash toys, unless they are center bash toys. Haha

#254 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

just looking to switch things up is all.

But he’s doing just that. All three games have been very different from layouts to rules. Very good variety.

#255 83 days ago

I have trouble knowing when I am actually defending Elwin’s designs or just defending what I like to play sometimes.

I think I just prefer smaller targets to bash-toys (big less specific targets). Personal preference.

#256 83 days ago

Certain games with bash toys work some do not. Party Zone does not do it for me(as an example). Having a third flipper and cool ramp configurations is great but I need more cowbell.

Party Zone.jpg
#257 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Party Zone does not do it for me(as an example).

I guess I don’t consider that to be a bash toy, as you aren’t supposed to bash it.

#258 83 days ago
Quoted from skink91:

I guess I don’t consider that to be a bash toy, as you aren’t supposed to bash it.

blah blah blah keep defending Elwin designs as op, just making some suggestions. Don't get your panties in a bind

#259 83 days ago

That’s totally fine, but you’re not making any sense. Haha

#260 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

blah blah blah keep defending Elwin designs as op, just making some suggestions. Don't get your panties in a bind

Whoah. Ha. Okay. Then that happened.

#261 83 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

That’s totally fine, but you’re not making any sense

Really simple-Elwin needs to do something else besides having cool ramp configurations and third flipper-they start to feel the same. I can see I am beating a dead horse with fan boys-so I will exit.

#262 83 days ago

Dude, that is a little bit ‘snowflakish’... you stated your opinion, we stated ours. Why the defensiveness?

Sorry if I came across as defending merely because I was a fanboy (even though I rather clearly am).

#263 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Certain bash toys are epic-think Monger and Sparky.

I consider Monger to be an actual "bash toy". Sparky is a great illusion of being a bash toy.

#264 83 days ago
Quoted from pinballcorpse:

I consider Monger to be an actual "bash toy". Sparky is a great illusion of being a bash toy.

Totally agree with that actually. The balrog in LOTR is another good example of a real bash toy.

-1
#265 83 days ago
Quoted from skink91:

Totally agree with that actually. The balrog in LOTR is another good example of a real bash toy.

I like the use of the balrog too. Reveal a bash toy, don’t always have it out. Monger is lame though. Too close to the flippers.

#266 83 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Monger is lame though

Sorry had to come back to reply to this nonsense. I have lots of respect for your insight and post but to say Monger is lame?

Monger is flippin awesome! Monger being close is the whole idea with trying to have him not throw your ball and have it drain,etc. A true risk reward shot.

Sorry but Monger is a real bash toy and it is epic!

#267 83 days ago

It’s so easy to simply hit the sides and 100% avoid all the danger. Sorry. It’s lame. Haha

#268 83 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorry. It’s lame

Almost as lame as your Stranger Things LE Demogorgon?

#269 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Almost as lame as your Stranger Things LE Demogorgon?

I would say the same amount of lameness. Haha

Certainly is satisfying hitting the ball in the mouth though. Especially when it’s to collect a huge jackpot.

#270 83 days ago

Then how about a bash toy that When hit enough would open up to a 2 way diverter behind that allows the ball to pass through to say a VUK or mini loop or what have you .

#271 83 days ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

Then how about a bash toy that When hit enough would open up to a 2 way diverter behind that allows the ball to pass through to say a VUK or mini loop or what have you .

Sounds really cool.

#272 83 days ago

Bash toy? I'd have to say the TREX toy is one of the best "cowbell toys" out there.

Anybody can stick a bash toy on a playfield, it's not creative The TREX is.

#273 83 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Almost as lame as your Stranger Things LE Demogorgon?

Depends on whos playing... newer players and people who dont play at all love that thing.

I had the game for a bit and it wasnt for me but casual players all loved it.

Cool looking and easy to figure out whats going on.... not all games are for hardcore players.

#274 83 days ago

I know I am in the minority here but I havent played a Elwin game yet I liked that much.

Too much going on and all the crazy ramp shit seems more like a gimmick than anything to me.

I had a Jurassic for a while and I get why people like it but to me just felt like a slog.

I appreciate that hes trying new stuff and I think thats great but to me it hasnt really made the games more fun.

#275 83 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

Depends on whos playing... newer players and people who dont play at all love that thing.
I had the game for a bit and it wasnt for me but casual players all loved it.
Cool looking and easy to figure out whats going on.... not all games are for hardcore players.

I was starting to like Stranger things more after I got a couple dozen games in it .Now our camper is closed for 6 months there’s a huge pincade there that I’m going to miss this winter .

#276 83 days ago

That being said I love Elwin games .I have INDN and have played JP looking forward to finding a Avengers to play .

#277 83 days ago

How is a bash toy epic?? Hitting a giant target over and over is boring.

#278 83 days ago

JP Premium/LE has two pretty damn fun bash toys. Raptor pit is the obvious one, but the Control Room can also hold a ball which can be bashed during Invalid Frenzy which is one of my favorite shots in the game.

-1
#279 83 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Bash toy? I'd have to say the TREX toy is one of the best "cowbell toys" out there.
Anybody can stick a bash toy on a playfield, it's not creative The TREX is.

It’s cool but I don’t know if I would call making the same toy as on the previous JP 25 years ago creative. It’s the lowest hanging fruit.

#280 82 days ago

Same? lol

#281 82 days ago

It’s a TREX that eats a ball. It’s 25 years newer I expect it to be cooler. It’s not creative but it is cool.

#282 82 days ago
Quoted from Waxx:

It’s a TREX that eats a ball. It’s 25 years newer I expect it to be cooler. It’s not creative but it is cool.

Does way more than just eat the ball.

#283 82 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Does way more than just eat the ball.

You downvoted me because I think it’s cool? Hahahahaha

Lighten up, I like the mech and it’s well implemented.

#284 82 days ago
Quoted from Waxx:

You downvoted need because I think it’s cool? Hahahahaha
Lighten up, I like the mech and it’s well implemented.

Just disagreement. It’s not the same mech and does way more than the 25 year old version.

#285 82 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I know I am in the minority here but I havent played a Elwin game yet I liked that much.

Such a weird place to share this opinion.

#286 82 days ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Such a weird place to share this opinion.

Yep. “Oh cool, a thread with a bunch of Keith Elwin fans. Let me tell them all how much I dislike his games.”

#287 82 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Yep. “Oh cool, a thread with a bunch of Keith Elwin fans. Let me tell them all how much I dislike his games.”

Srry.. didnt mean it like that.

It didnt read this as a "Keith Elwin fans only" thread more of a general discussion of his games and what may be next

In that case.. every Keith game is a staggering piece of genius.

#288 82 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I know I am in the minority here but I havent played a Elwin game yet I liked that much.
Too much going on and all the crazy ramp shit seems more like a gimmick than anything to me.
I had a Jurassic for a while and I get why people like it but to me just felt like a slog.
I appreciate that hes trying new stuff and I think thats great but to me it hasnt really made the games more fun.

Out of curiosity, what is a good/fun game to you? You mentioned that Stranger Things wasn’t for hard-core gamers... so what games would you say are?

(We all like different things in a game, I do get that)

#289 82 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

Srry.. didnt mean it like that.
It didnt read this as a "Keith Elwin fans only" thread more of a general discussion of his games and what may be next
In that case.. every Keith game is a staggering piece of genius.

I’d take a closer look. His first three games have some of the best layouts and well thought out rulesets in pinball period.

#290 82 days ago

Just sayin... just because a game is deep and has 100 shots and creative ramps doesnt mean its fun and everyone is going to love it.

I dont really know why his games dont resonate with me but they feel like work and I dont enjoy them much.

I am certainly not saying they suck or anything just not for me.. its an opinion, doesnt mean anything.

As I said I admire his effort to do new stuff... even if I dont like it at least its different.

#291 82 days ago

One reason (I think) the KME games are so popular is that he tries to make fresh layouts that play different that any other game out there. John Borg is a fine designer and does have some amazing games (MET, Tron) but he tends to recycle A LOT of layouts and concepts. He has done the spinning disk magnet multiball start on THREE different games.

Elwin raised the bar with AIQ layout wise. The callouts and animations are a bit generic but man the game shoots so good.

#292 82 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I dont really know why his games dont resonate with me but they feel like work and I dont enjoy them much.

This pretty much explains it for me. Hey, if it feels like work to you (you mentioned JP2 was a slog for you) why would you choose to play it over something else?

#293 82 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

One reason (I think) the KME games are so popular is that he tries to make fresh layouts that play different that any other game out there. John Borg is a fine designer and does have some amazing games (MET, Tron) but he tends to recycle A LOT of layouts and concepts.
Elwin raised the bar with AIQ layout wise. The callouts and animations are a bit generic but man the game shoots so good.

This I 100% agree with as I said in my post.

#294 82 days ago

I know this gets rehashed (and rehashed again) and I have probably been doing more than my share of it too... but an Elwin take on a widebody early SS style layout is what I would really like to see. I just feel like the possibilities with modern software-driven rulesets with one of these designs could be so full of awesome.

#295 79 days ago

Three flipper bash toy games got me thinking.

What if there was a two way bash toy? You could have it blocking the path of the inner loop or ramp shot from the upper flipper at times, then it could swing out like balrog and block the center shot at other times.

I think that would be a cool use of a bash toy that would breathe new life into an old feature.

#296 79 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Three flipper bash toy games got me thinking.
What if there was a two way bash toy? You could have it blocking the path of the inner loop or ramp shot from the upper flipper at times, then it could swing out like balrog and block the center shot at other times.
I think that would be a cool use of a bash toy that would breathe new life into an old feature.

Probably what they should’ve done with slimer on ghostbusters although not exactly what you were saying .I like it !

#297 79 days ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

Probably what they should’ve done with slimer on ghostbusters although not exactly what you were saying .I like it !

Slimer does this on the Premium/LE. Pro he blocks one shot.

#298 79 days ago

Slimer is a great call and love how he blocks multiple shots in that game.

#299 79 days ago

I'd say all 3 KME games play completely differently, but there are similarities. As AIQ is only developing code, it's hard to compare rule sets right now.

IMdn and JP2 both have 6 way untimed combos, 11 tomb treasures and 11 Fossils, multiple main MBs plus easily accessible mode MB, no VUKs - preferring up-posts to trap the ball.

IMdn is much more of a slog than JP2, especially if you fail to collect a SS from a mode, or LV2 Eddie from a MB. Getting to Cyborg or later modes requires numerous ramp shots - which does feel repetitive.
JP2 is never a slog, there are 3 main aims/wizard modes to progress towards, all of which are somewhat independent.

To me the standout/innovative features from his first 2 games are:
IMdn:
Bullseye 'bash' target with additional reward for accuracy.
The number of different skill shots
JP2:
4 ramps which can be combo'd
TRex Holding and throwing ball

I couldn't get enough of playing IMdn and JP2 the first time I saw them on site, so much so they (along with AIQ) are my only NIB purchases to date.

AIQ:
The Iron Man lock tower is brilliant
The Gauntlet ramp, I cannot think of another major shot, let alone ramp that is accessible from all 3 flippers on any machine.

I think what KME brings to the table when designing a game and rules, is knowing what works, and more importantly doesn't work, in tournament games. There isn't an overriding strategy that allows you to ignore huge parts of the game if you want maximise your score or reach the wizard modes. Hitting the same/safe shot over and over doesn't reward you as much as other games do. Almost every game I can think of when I have watched or played in tournaments the players play the same way and ignore parts of the game.

Any game by any designer is going to have similarities, especially when using the exact same template for the bottom 1/3 of the playfield and the same playfield dimensions. Any game that strays from the standard outlane/inlane (x2), slingshot, flippers, slingshot, inlane outlane, shooter lane generally gets a bad press.

It would be nice to see more variety, perhaps gaining additional playfield area at the bottom by having the ball enter the playfield from the top, or via a 1 way gate on the right outlane. It would change the overall geometry of the game, perhaps freeing up different ideas, or resulting in layouts that don't 'work/flow'? Who knows.
Have a game without inlanes, or even without outlanes! Like so many of the older games.

However, even sticking to the traditional bottom 1/3 layout KMEs 3 games so far feel fresh and very different to what we have seen recently, but more importantly they are fun to play, great in competition, easy to understand the basics for a novice as well as having the depth of strategy to keep better players more engaged at home.

Overall I love KMEs first 3 games, as I do other games from other designers, DP, BM66 & TWD are also favourites.

If you don't like his games, don't play/buy them, but don't try and force your views as to how he should change his designs, there are plenty of people out there who like them just as they are.

1 month later
#300 39 days ago

I put a deposit down last week for an LE of whatever the next KME pin is... so, I need to know what its gonna be folks.

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