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(Topic ID: 256260)

Keeps blowing fuse!! Gottlieb System 80b


By TecumsehPlissken

1 year ago



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  • 34 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by TecumsehPlissken
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#1 1 year ago

Help please! I just got this game Big House & it was playing fine , started changing bulbs out to Led's doing so a bit at a time over a few days everything was fine right up until I finished with the flashers & a few other 44s I had on order yesterday & upon power up I notice the game no longer has any control lamps just the G.I and flashers are working nothing else Fuse F5 under playfield for control lamps was blown & it continues to blow over and over again immediately right upon power up ??? it blows the fuse even with the entire driver board disconnected ? I have also gone back over every single lamp socket & wire that attaches under the playfield identified wire colors & disconnected those bulbs from lamp sockets as well & the fuse still blows right away , I have looked very carefully for any short circuit that I may have caused but have yet to notice Anything .... my first Gottlieb sigh.... any help greatly appreciated

#2 1 year ago

There may be a light socket that is shorted, or a bulb.

Break out the continuity tester and spend some time going through each one.

#3 1 year ago

Ok so I did a continuity test on a couple of suspect sockets if I understand you correctly there should be no continuity from power lug of the socket to ground or base of socket with bulb out ? (these are all bayonets) & if it does get continuity that means those sockets are shorted ? /// I have identified 2 that are linked & are giving me the beep so it could just be one of them ??

#4 1 year ago

Very likely one of the center tabs got bent enough to touch the other tab, sometimes it's difficult to see, try bending all the center tabs back a little before you spend a lot of time with an ohmmeter

#5 1 year ago

Thanks to all who have offered suggestions!! I have been all eyeball's all over this thing looking for bent socket tabs or any other suspect wire contacts & I cant see ANYTHING (yet) /// found this post from another thread several years ago about finding shorts in G.I wondering if this bulb fuse contraption might help me narrow down my short in control lamps ? they don't stay on all the time like the G.I but maybe could help with diagnosis ?? thoughts ?

This is from RGP - Mark Clayton - I've done it on EMs FWIW
...

Take one of your blown fuses, and using some short wires
solder a 44 or 47 light bulb across it. Now install
it in the place where your fuse is blowing. All the
lights will be dim, but when the short happens again,
the bulb across the fuse will light up fully. Now you
can wiggle things and fiddle around until you find the
short, and you won't blow any more fuses.
-Mark
-----
http://pinballpal.com

Forgot to mention, after installing the bulb - un-solder sections of the GI string until the short disappears.

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#6 1 year ago
Quoted from pb456:

There may be a light socket that is shorted, or a bulb.
Break out the continuity tester and spend some time going through each one.

please excuse my ignorance but what exactly should I be looking for by doing a continuity test ? what symptom indicates a shorted bulb/ socket? having continuity?? or not having continuity ?

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

please excuse my ignorance but what exactly should I be looking for by doing a continuity test ? what symptom indicates a shorted bulb/ socket? having continuity?? or not having continuity ?

I've had a single bulb that was shorted - of course next to impossible to find - short the entire GI circuit before. I've also had an individual socket (or more) shorted, the 'bayonet' style, number 44 as you have in the 80B, that would also have the same effect.

Following your post I believed that it could be either a shorted socket or bulb.

I re-read (and corrected my thoughts on) your original post, and you say that the GI bulbs and flashers are good, but the computer controlled bulbs are not working. So ignore what I said about testing the GI lights, concentrate on the bulbs and sockets for the computer controlled lamps.

I do not have Haunted House, but found a manual for it. If I look at the Haunted House manual - it is listed as a Gottlieb System 80. F5 looks to be a 7-1/2A protecting the 8V AC line. Make sure that it is.

(see image 1)

Have you located the wires for the controlled lamps, tested those sockets, and the wires to make sure that they're not shorted across the sockets?

From your post "it blows the fuse even with the entire driver board disconnected" - leads me to believe that it's a socket that has gotten smashed or otherwise shorted, or wiring to one of those computer-controlled sockets that has gotten shorted across something conductive.

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#8 1 year ago
Quoted from pb456:

Have you located the wires for the controlled lamps, tested those sockets, and the wires to make sure that they're not shorted across the sockets?

Yes I have located the color wires from the f5 fuse holder back to a small square box (1 of 3) located next to the transformer & from there they branch off into groups of white/black & white ,red, green not all of the control lamps are these colors though ,only a few groups are & some of those same color wire groups are going to G.I lamps not control lamps?? & also Big house must be different from haunted house because on this game F5 is fuse designated as control lamps & it is a 10amp 32 volt fuse ////// what is still not clear to me is HOW DO I perform a Test on those sockets ???????

#9 1 year ago

I'd take all the bulbs back out, replace the fuse, and then re-install each bulb one by one until the fuse blew again. Keep the game on, just put in the bulb and watch what happens.

That would really narrow it down.

#10 1 year ago

Questions: How does one go about testing the sockets with a meter ? //// I have been using a 9 volt battery to check across linked bulbs I have also pulled out a bunch of bulbs & checked them individually with the 9 volt if they are shorted I assume they would not light up ?

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#11 1 year ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Yes I have located the color wires from the f5 fuse holder back to a small square box (1 of 3) located next to the transformer & from there they branch off into groups of white/black & white ,red, green not all of the control lamps are these colors though ,only a few groups are & some of those same color wire groups are going to G.I lamps not control lamps?? & also Big house must be different from haunted house because on this game F5 is fuse designated as control lamps & it is a 10amp 32 volt fuse ////// what is still not clear to me is HOW DO I perform a Test on those sockets ???????

Oh boy. My reading comprehension is not good today I read Big House and read Haunted House. Been wanting one of those for a while!

Gottlieb may have re-used certain color wires, it's not always good to rely on the wire colors, rely on your meter.

To test lamp sockets:

http://homepinballrepair.com/index.php/repair-pinball-lamp-sockets/

"To test, remove the bulb, then put your DVM in the diode test mode and connect the leads across the diode. One direction will read high and the other direction will read low if it is good. If both directions read high, it is defective – replace it."

#12 1 year ago

Thanks for that I do appreciate any help... but there is not a single lamp socket in this game that has a diode on it , so I am still wondering what tests to do? & what to look for as far as this is "Good" or this is a "Shorted out" socket ?

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

I'd take all the bulbs back out, replace the fuse, and then re-install each bulb one by one until the fuse blew again. Keep the game on, just put in the bulb and watch what happens.
That would really narrow it down.

willing to try that at this point but question first , if it is a Socket that is shorted & not a bulb will it not Still blow the fuse with all those bulbs removed ?

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

willing to try that at this point but question first , if it is a Socket that is shorted & not a bulb will it not Still blow the fuse with all those bulbs removed ?

It should still blow the fuse, but that would at least narrow it down for you that it's the socket and not the bulbs. And if it didn't blow the fuse then you'd know that it must be one of the bulbs. Replace the bulbs one by one until it blows. When it does, that's your culprit.

#16 1 year ago

First off I Very much appreciate every ones help & suggestions!!! Thanks to everyone who is offering help with this but before I go back in & remove every single bulb (not opposed to this just a few questions first) I wanted to update with some more info ... I had already changed over 80% of the bulbs before this started happening it wasn't until I replaced the last few that came in on order along with the 4 flasher bulbs that the problem occurred so naturally I have gone back & removed those bulbs ( with the exception of the flashers as they are harder to access , but are working) to no avail fuse still blowing ///Also I have tested all of the bulbs in their sockets game off with a 9 volt battery with wires attached & ALL of the control lamps work individually or some of them in strings light up together when tested that way ...correct me if I am mistaken but that to me says all of those socket & bulbs are OK ??? ///// Also I went ahead & made one of those bulb soldered to a fuse gizmo's that I posted about earlier in this thread (see attached picture etc...) & when I do that the control lamps come on & all work to a certain degree but some don't flash as much or for a much lesser amount of time again making me think all of those bulbs & sockets are alright ??? but asking here in case I may be wrong /// Lastly I completely disconnected all of the connectors from the driver board Again this evening just to confirm it again & powered game on & fuse still blows immediately / Question does that confirm for sure that the problem is Not on a board ?? one last thing to note I have attached a picture where you can see that one of the inserts that has no writing or anything on it stays lit there are two bulbs connected there that light the insert looks like a control lamp because its under an insert BUT those two bulbs stay light when the driver board is disconnected acting as if they are G.I seems strange but thought I should mention it I THINK its normal & don't want to start chasing a ghost but would have to ask another Big House owner to confirm

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Lastly I completely disconnected all of the connectors from the driver board Again this evening just to confirm it again & powered game on & fuse still blows immediately

This doesn't make sense. If there's no power running through it then it shouldn't blow. Are you sure you disconnected everything? There's no way the fuse should blow if there's no electricity flowing through it. Something isn't adding up.

#18 1 year ago

I will be pulling out all the bulbs & report back /// those 2 staying on under the insert have still got me wondering

#19 1 year ago

All control lamp bulbs removed from sockets , as well as a few G.I removed & its still blowing that fuse immediately & this is with the driver board disconnected sigh was fine before I decide to LED it Damn it man WTH?

#20 1 year ago

worn out dealing with it for tonight gonna play a few other games & Re visit the flashers tomorrow only thing I can think of at this point

#21 1 year ago

I had a similar problem on a different game. It ended up being a bulb. The new bulb was shorted from it's soldered tip to it's base, a manufacturing lemon. I spent about 6 hours going through what you are going through before i caught it.
good luck.

#22 1 year ago

update bump // after taking a break & much thinking...reconnected the driver board & then reinstalled the fuse soldered to a bulb gizmo @ F5 , So Now with all the control lamps missing from their sockets & game powered on the bulb on the gizmo is of course lit but gets brighter on & off similar to the control lamp attract mode pulse that would be expected for control lamps ....... its got to be a socket ? Right ?? but as to how to locate the One(s) without de soldering one at a time I am considering the purchase of a Short circuit detector like I have seen advertised online for purchase @ Home Depot etc.. has anyone else used this type of tool for this type problem before ?? any advice appreciated

1 week later
#23 12 months ago

BUMP tried tracing it with the short circuit detector tool but can only trace it from blown fuse to a junction block next to the transformer & then lose it after that point ....... all control lamp bulbs out of their sockets still blows fuse , cant find any sockets that look suspect , hard to inspect some without de soldering them from the harness & most have staple grounds

#24 12 months ago

Have you tested the bridge rectifier tied to fuse f5 ?

#25 12 months ago

Also the lamps that are stuck on. Are they flaslamps? If so, you need to remove and modify the warming resistor boards. Under the playfield. For LEDs to work on 80b games. And check that nothing on a socket is shorted to a resistor board. The flasher circuits, or touching a coil bracket or ground braid.

In the head. G.I and cpu controlled lamps there as well.

#26 11 months ago
Quoted from pintime:

Have you tested the bridge rectifier tied to fuse f5 ?

it blows the fuse with the driver board completely disconnected , doesn't that eliminate the B.R from the circuit ?

#27 11 months ago

is there a proper test I can perform with my fluke meter on the individual sockets? Ohm test? tried already but could not find anything unusual they all pretty much checkout the same but the leads on the meter have to be reversed in order to get a reading ////// also just to note it, those two bulbs under the insert that are staying on are getting power from the G.I confirmed this by pulling the G.I fuse , all G.I including those 2 goes out

#28 11 months ago
Quoted from erak:

Also the lamps that are stuck on. Are they flaslamps? If so, you need to remove and modify the warming resistor boards. Under the playfield. For LEDs to work on 80b games.

As far as I know, this is not correct. I have full LED installs in 3 System 80B here.

#29 11 months ago

at my wits end with this , other than disconnecting / de soldering one bulb socket at a time? ........... what other options are available for diagnosis ?

#30 11 months ago

I am looking at wiring diagram for black hole ,8 vac comes from transformer goes through fuse F5 then trough bridge rectifier if the bridge rectifier is bad it will crete short and blow fuse .The driver board usually is not a issue since it only controls path to ground and if your blowing fuse your short is on power side

#31 11 months ago
Quoted from pintime:

I am looking at wiring diagram for black hole ,8 vac comes from transformer goes through fuse F5 then trough bridge rectifier if the bridge rectifier is bad it will crete short and blow fuse .The driver board usually is not a issue since it only controls path to ground and if your blowing fuse your short is on power side

Yes, the original bridge rectifiers in the SYS 80’s were problematic and should be replaced. Plus there was a ground issue with these necessitating a ground mod procedure, I don’t have details.

#32 11 months ago

Ok Thank you Pintime & Hawknole very much! I will be checking that as soon as I get home from work this eve. /// please forgive my ignorance as this is my very first Gottlieb & I thought all of the Bridge rectifiers were on the boards , I actually traced the wires earlier to one of those but did not realize what it was , they are under the playfield 3 of them next the transformer

#33 11 months ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Ok Thank you Pintime & Hawknole very much! I will be checking that as soon as I get home from work this eve. /// please forgive my ignorance as this is my very first Gottlieb & I thought all of the Bridge rectifiers were on the boards , I actually traced the wires earlier to one of those but did not realize what it was , they are under the playfield 3 of them next the transformer

Yeah, those guys

#34 11 months ago

Fixed Thanks Pinside !! With callout Thanks to Pintime & Hawknole

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