(Topic ID: 294382)

KAHR WPC MPU Power Fix Circuit add-on daughterboard

By zhu808

2 years ago


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  • 81 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Asmig
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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    19
    #41 2 years ago

    Wow. I really wanted to stay out of this thread but there's too much mis-information that needs to be called out.

    WPC has TWO "12V" voltage supplies. They are distinct. They are different. Please, please, please ... do NOT confuse them.

    UNREGULATED 12V (known in the schematic as "+12 V POWER" visible at LED7 and measured at TP1 but hereby known as +12VU) originates from a transformer secondary winding at J112-1,2 and J112-3,5. It is rectified (BR5), smoothed (C30) and leaves the board at J116-2, J117-2 and J118-2. It leaves as a GRY-YEL wire.

    REGULATED 12V (known in the schematic as "+12 V DIGITAL" visible at LED1 and measured at TP3 but hereby known as +12VR) originates from a transformer secondary winding at J101-4,5 and J101-6,7. It is rectified (BR1), smoothed (C6 and C7), voltage dropped (D1 and D2), regulated (Q2) and leaves the board at J114-1,2. It leaves as a GRY-GRN wire.

    01_power_sources.jpg01_power_sources.jpg
    01_power_regulated.jpg01_power_regulated.jpg
    01_power_unregulated.jpg01_power_unregulated.jpg

    +12VR is ONLY used by the switch matrix and Fliptronic comparators (LM339).

    02_cpu.jpg02_cpu.jpg
    09_fliptronic.jpg09_fliptronic.jpg

    +12VU is used everywhere else ... including by the DMD or ColorDMD.

    06_dmc.jpg06_dmc.jpg

    The Kahr boards takes the +12VR supply as the source for its regulation to +5VR. It does NOT take the +12VU supply as the source. You can load up the +12VU supply (to the point of overload) but it should not directly affect the +12VR supply. They are separate supplies from separate transformer secondary windings.

    If a Kahr board is installed and resets suddenly appear you probably have a compromised Q2 (L7812CV or LM7812) regulator or a failed (potentially leaked) C2. The load for switch matrix comparison is VERY low. Once you put the CPU digital logic load it can cause a partially failed regulator to not be able to deliver the require current to maintain the required voltage. When the voltage falls below the watchdog threshold the system resets.

    Using a Kahr board is NOT "free". It will cost you something. Often it will shift potential failure points to a location not recognized by a technician versed in WPC power design. It will cause confusion unless it is clearly stated that the Kahr board is being used and, of course, the technician needs to know what a Kahr board is. Even after that it will cause confusion ... witness this thread.

    There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to power and failure. Just be aware of the trade-offs. Caveat emptor.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from zhu808:

    I wondered if you'd show up. Now that you have, I'd like to say it's great to see you.

    Likewise. Just too busy to respond to most things. I really didn't want to post here but the mis-information drove me over the edge. I think it's great people are trying to help. No!!! Really!!! I think it's better if you bring "receipts" - i.e. proof rather than just stating something as truth. "Receipts" definitely helps those reading who are unsure or who don't know where to look for the information. I don't believe most everything I read until I find corroborating evidence. That's "caveat emptor" at work.

    Quoted from pins4u:

    Not very helpful - the UNREGULATED 12V that you point out measures 14.8V in my machine because it is UNREGULATED. Folks, please DON'T go connecting things here or it could end badly for your add-on. If your add-on (mod) has an onboard regulator all well and good BUT don't expect this to be the case.

    I fail to see how my statements are "Not very helpful" but I guess we can agree to disagree. I can't prove that your statement is neither true nor false. It's opinion.

    Unregulated means exactly that - unregulated. It is indeed often measured at ~+15V because it's unregulated. The actual voltage fluctuates depending on the load. ColorDMD almost certainly has either a 5V or 3.3V regulator. It can't perform any form of digital logic without one. LED strips don't need a regulator. Their brightness may fluctuate as the voltage fluctuates.

    Maybe it would have been better if Williams called it "+15 V POWER" or "Unregulated 15V" instead. I didn't create their nomenclature. I'm just using what the schematic and manuals use.

    My gripe is with statements saying that all the mods added to the system are drawing the "12V" supply low. Those mods are connected to +12VU. That has NO direct effect on +12VR because they are derived from separate transformer windings. The Kahr board uses +12VR as the source for its 5V regulator. It does not use +12VU so the mods added to the system (at J116, J117 or J118) are irrelevant.

    Quoted from pins4u:

    The bottom line is don't just start adding things unless you know what you are doing!

    This I can agree with.

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