(Topic ID: 71690)

Just picked up an Alien Poker

By Deez

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Deez
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 years ago

Just picked up an Alien Poker. She does not work currently. Upon examination of the drop targets I noticed that every coil is melted. I've also noticed that the 40 pin connector between the MPU and driver board is original. The owner told me that the game just started smoking. The GI also isn't working and the fuse on the power supply board will blow if it's connected which I believe is a separate issue altogether.

I suspect a faulty 40 pin connector caused all of the solenoids in the drop targets to fire at once and lock on. I can't think of any other reason why 6 coils would lock on and melt.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not one that likes fixing stuff if it isn't broken. Would it be recommended to start by replacing that 40 pin connector, fried coils and go from there?

#2 10 years ago

Your probably going to need to replace all the transistors that power those coils on the driver board, replace all those coils (obviously). Your best bet is to send all the boards out to the coin op cauldron or locked when lit if you don't do board repair yourself. I saw that listing, did you get it for less than the 500.00 asking price? Alien Poker is a great game! GL

#3 10 years ago

I'd start by bringing it over to my house and leaving it. You really don't want that game. <invokes Jedi mind trick>

#4 10 years ago

hey there Dirk - see my post, if you need some parts and pieces and WHATTKNOTT..... you let me know. Email is [email protected] Best of Luck to you. I have really enjoyed Alien Poker ! Jim

#5 10 years ago

Alien Poker is an AWESOME game! You will love it. Very challenging for an older game, with great sounds and gameplay that always keeps me coming back for more. I love the drops that you have to hit in order. Its never leaving my collection!

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from Gnatty:

Your probably going to need to replace all the transistors that power those coils on the driver board, replace all those coils (obviously). Your best bet is to send all the boards out to the coin op cauldron or locked when lit if you don't do board repair yourself. I saw that listing, did you get it for less than the 500.00 asking price? Alien Poker is a great game! GL

I do my own board work. I know it's going to need some work so I figure I'd bullet proof it while I have it out. Trying to pool the gurus over here to see if there are any weak links I definitely need to replace.

#7 10 years ago

The game's a lot of fun and was my first pin! It'll probably be staying in my collection. I don't know why many people hate it, but I guess that keeps the prices down for a good bang-for-your-buck factor. Good luck getting it fixed up. Sorry, I don't have much to offer for advice since I haven't had to work much on the boards for this game yet.

#8 10 years ago

See Vid's guide to bulletproofing system 3-7 games. Worked great for me on my Contact machine.

#9 10 years ago

Dirk,

If coils melted big time it is fairly likely the driver circuit is damaged all the way back to the 7408. Luckily you can usually easily test these 7408s (and 7402s in special solenoid) by putting DMM on diode test. Red lead on ground, black lead on the 7408 output (easiest to do this right on the base of the 2n4401 pre driver). You should see the standard voltage drop .4 - .6v. If it is shorted or lower than .4v, replace it with 74F08 ir 74F02. Test the tip102 and 2n4401 predriver obviously as well.

The male connector pins suck big time on system 6 era. The header pins are cut so short on the solder side of the board they crack frequently and it is hard to just resolder them. They really should be replaced so you can make a nice reliable solder joint.

The female part of the 40 pin interconnect is mandatory to replace. Since multiple coils melted, that could indicate an issue on the blanking signal pin. I think it is p37 on the interconnect.

The lamp column resistors are usually in rough shape. They burn the board and sometimes go open. Either do the mosfet upgrade or replace the column resistors with 3 or 5 watt resistors (originally 2w i think)

#10 10 years ago

I ran Leon Barre's test rom on my boards and they tested out fine. I had to wiggle the 40 pin connector a few times to get all the outputs on the PIA to toggle appropriately. I do believe the boards are working 100% though. So I measured the voltages off the power supply with nothing connected and saw something that I think is odd. I am getting 20 volts for the controlled lights which seems ok for an unloaded circuit, but I am getting 38V dc for solenoid voltage should be 28V. That seems way to high to me. What do you think?

#11 10 years ago

Unloaded that is fine. These are unregulated circuits so the voltage varies a bunch depending on load. The Feature lamps strobe so they end up around 6v average.

If you have to mess with the interconnect to get the PIAs to pulse, you really need to replace the female part and check male header pins for the game to be reliable. When solenoids hit, people nudge the game, whatever... you are likely to get vibrations causing lockups and resets. Can't really avoid doing this unfortunately. If the game locks up in a state where the solenoids lock on, major damage can happen on the driver board and solenoids.

#12 10 years ago

I plan on replacing the interconnect. I think the flakey connection is what caused the problems on this game. I'm going to rebuild it and also the fried target bank and report back.

#13 10 years ago

Be careful. Once you get it going it may become your favorite.

Why not go ahead and replace the old boards with one of the combo boards while you are at it? I have heard that there are several connectors on the old boards that tend to go bad. I am dealing with what is likely a bad CPU plug now, as well as an old sound issue I never have figured out. So as soon as I can afford it I will be getting new boards and hope that fixes my problems for years.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeremecium:

Why not go ahead and replace the old boards with one of the combo boards while you are at it? I have heard that there are several connectors on the old boards that tend to go bad. I am dealing with what is likely a bad CPU plug now, as well as an old sound issue I never have figured out. So as soon as I can afford it I will be getting new boards and hope that fixes my problems for years.

I rather spend 10 bucks changing out some pins on the boards than $300 on a new board. I enjoy the challenge of bringing a broken game back to life. The early SS game technology is pretty low and easy to diagnose from what I'm seeing. On top of that there are plenty of gurus on this forum that have already dealt with the same issues I'm seeing that can help guide me in the right direction.

#15 10 years ago

I'd give you two thumbs up for that if I could, Dirk.

That 40-pin is the place to start. It's pretty tough (or impossible) to diagnose anything else until that's solid. It's easy to do if you have a desoldering iron.

#16 10 years ago

40-pin connector replaced. I went thru all the MPU and driver board diagnostics located here: http://pinball.flippers.info/system6repairpart5.asp

And the verdict is.....
Bad lamp strobes.
5 of 8 Tip142 were bad. I suspect the board was missing the blanking signal and locked the drop targets on and the previous owner probably shorted the coil voltage to the lamp matrix while he was "fixing" it . Luckily the tip142's are the only damaged components on the board. I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade the lamp strobes over to mosfets while I wait for my replacement drop target bank thanks to corkgiants.
More to follow....

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

40-pin connector replaced. I went thru all the MPU and driver board diagnostics located here: http://pinball.flippers.info/system6repairpart5.asp
And the verdict is.....
Bad lamp strobes.
5 of 8 Tip142 were bad. I suspect the board was missing the blanking signal and locked the drop targets on and the previous owner probably shorted the coil voltage to the lamp matrix while he was "fixing" it . Luckily the tip142's are the only damaged components on the board. I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade the lamp strobes over to mosfets while I wait for my replacement drop target bank thanks to corkgiants.
More to follow....

FYI, it's possible to upgrade the drop target bank on AP to leaf switches found on later games like Jungle Lord instead of the horseshoe sliders. This won't work on all early Williams games since I think some are constantly registering a closed switch and scoring, but it works fine in AP. I made this change to mine by getting a 5 bank drop target assembly from Jungle Lord on eBay.

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

I rather spend 10 bucks changing out some pins on the boards than $300 on a new board. I enjoy the challenge of bringing a broken game back to life. The early SS game technology is pretty low and easy to diagnose from what I'm seeing. On top of that there are plenty of gurus on this forum that have already dealt with the same issues I'm seeing that can help guide me in the right direction.

Point taken.

1 week later
#19 10 years ago

Ok. So I installed the 8 new Mosfets in my lamp driver circuit and removed the old resistors and jumpered the connections, rebuilt the drop target bank using parts from the bank I received. I installed the rebuilt bank and the boards in the game and fired it up.
So the game booted fine, I added credits and played a few games. The sounds are off and the game isn't resetting the right most drop target for the 10 card. I tested the transistor for the 10 card by shorting the tab to ground and it exhibits and odd behavior. The coil activates, but then it stays locked on until I power cycle. I decided I'd troubleshoot the coil last since I need the game to be operating properly in order to trouble shoot it in the machine. So I pulled both flipper roms and the game rom to test them since I suspected that maybe the game code was bad. (I figured this had to be the case since the board passed all the tests with the test rom installed on the bench)

I verified the chip against the rom images on IPDB and both flipper roms passed the test, but the game rom failed!! So I burnt a new copy of the game rom. Installed them in the machine, powered up and now the game doesn't boot. I had removed the boards from the game when pulling the roms just to prevent damaging them since they looked pretty fragile.

I quit at this point since it was approaching 10 PM and I needed to get some rest. Tonight I'm going to start by testing the voltages at the power supply connector on the MPU to make sure they're all present and transferring correctly, if not I'm going to replace that connector. I'm also probably going to replace the sockets for the game rom, flipper roms and also rerun Leon Barres test rom to double check everything.

Hopefully this will fix my issues. I'm sure there will be more down the road. I'm so close I can taste it. There's nothing like the feeling of the first few games you flip on a machine that's been broken and unplayable. I can't wait till it's playing cherry again

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

Ok. So I installed the 8 new Mosfets in my lamp driver circuit and removed the old resistors and jumpered the connections, rebuilt the drop target bank using parts from the bank I received. I installed the rebuilt bank and the boards in the game and fired it up.So the game booted fine, I added credits and played a few games. The sounds are off and the game isn't resetting the right most drop target for the 10 card. I tested the transistor for the 10 card by shorting the tab to ground and it exhibits and odd behavior. The coil activates, but then it stays locked on until I power cycle.

Test the predriver and the logic gate behind the predriver. Something is probably blown out and you manually triggering the transistor makes something stick on behind it. I seriously doubt this is a rom issue.

You can test the 740X TTL chip behind the predriver by putting DMM on diode test and probing the associated output. Red lead on ground black lead on the output. You should see a normal voltage drop like across a diode, if you get a low reading or open reading the IC is bad.

Try a new game ROM. Sometimes i burn an EPROM that tests okay in my burner, but fails to work in a real board.

Andrew

#21 10 years ago

Hmmm.. I tested all the predrivers using the test rom and they were all cycling. I wonder if there is something that is weak under load.

#22 10 years ago

It turned out the 10 drop target was a bad 7408 and pre-driver transistor. I replaced them and now the game is playing pretty well. I need to focus on a few other odd issues now. The sound effects are not triggering correctly. I'm not sure if the problem is on the MPU or the sound board. When you first start a game it says "Alien Poker - You deal" but then right away it says "I fold - you win". Something is wrong. Also the periodic background sound that should play is not activating and when I hit the spinner the spinner sound just loops indefinitely. I checked the 7408 that feeds the sound triggers with my logic comparator and it doesn't appear to be bad. I also checked the TIP122's and pre-drivers and they all tested fine.

I pulled the rom and tested it and it didn't match the code on IPDB. I tried erasing and reprogramming the rom and the chip won't erase. I ordered a new one to replace it. I'm not sure if this could cause the problem but I think a corrupt rom can't be good.

I also can't seem to get into test mode anymore. I was able to when I first picked up the machine, but not the test buttons don't seem to work. There is another strange problem when I close the coin door and the interlock engages, the whole game just locks up and the displays go blank. I tried rebooting with the coin door closed and the game just shows zeros on the displays but doesn't boot or go to attract mode.

These early SS games are fun to play but man they're a conundrum to work on.

#23 10 years ago

I think you can get audit mode with just the flipper roms, so a bad game rom can definatley cause your symptoms. I would get a known good game rom first. If you have any other system 6 games, you can try their game rom to see if it boots.

If you still have audit problems and your ROMs are good, time to do the same as mentioned previously DMM diode test on the memory protect ICs IC24, IC27, and IC5 (all prone to get wasted by battery damage). Check the wiring and connectors for the diag switch. If all those are good, check or replace the 5101 ram (fails very often). The built in WMS diagnostic button with normal game roms is pretty good at testing the 5101.

The sound problems, figure out which transistors drive each of your sounds. Manualy ground each transistor tab and see if you get a unique sound for each. If one is missing investigate wiring, cracked solder joints etc. You can measure continuity from the driver board transistor tab all the way to the sound board input pins. If inputs are good to the sound board. Place the game in cycling solenoid test. Find the 4050 input buffers on the sound board and make sure the input and output both match. You should see a pulse during solenoid test. These buffers fail fairly often. A bad buffer would have an input, but not a matching output. You can compare between lines. If all the buffers are good, all inputs are good, it is time to replace or check the PIA on the sound board.

#24 10 years ago

Fattdirk,
If you figure out the test mode problem, please let me know. I am having the exact same problem with my own Alien Poker. I am a newbie to restoration, so have no good thoughts on this. All I know is the test mode was working two weeks ago, the last time I ran a test. Now I have the same problem you do.

I noticed that if I push the white button that is at the top of the coin door opening, that this is what seems to make the display go blank. I believe the coin door presses on it when the door is shut. If I push this button at other times it cycles the display through its individual numbers. Any ideas?

With my sound, one of the playfield sounds just keeps repeating, like the solenoid is stuck. I was trying to run the solenoid test to see which solenoid it is, but just like you, I can't get into test mode. Thanks.

#25 10 years ago

Ok so Alien Poker LIVES!! I did some research today and figured out that you could use a 2732 rom in place of a 2716 if you just burn the image twice to the chip. So instead of having to wait for my new 2716 chip to arrive, I burned that on some old roms I had. Plugged it in and the sounds were working, but no speech. I did some further research and it turns out that the rom set on IPDB and in the game manual are incorrect. They call for Williams Sound rom 2 which actually doesn't work. It plays sounds but they're actually off. You can see how the sounds were with the sound rom 2 here:

I burned a copy of sound rom 3 and now the game works 100%.

Quoted from boneman91:

If you figure out the test mode problem, please let me know. I am having the exact same problem with my own Alien Poker. I am a newbie to restoration, so have no good thoughts on this. All I know is the test mode was working two weeks ago, the last time I ran a test. Now I have the same problem you do.

The test switch problem ended up being the plug at the top right of the MPU board. When I had installed the MPU board I had inadvertantly installed the plug with one of the pins too far right. I removed the plug and installed it correctly and the game went right into test mode.

So the total fixes I had to perform to get this game working were:
Replace male and female 40 pin connector
Replace the lamp matrix transistors with Mosfets
Remove lamp matrix resistors and install jumpers in their places
Replace all 5 coils on the drop target bank
Burn and install new copy of the game rom
Burn and install a new copy of the sound rom
Replace the 7408 at IC1 that drives the 10 drop target
Replace the Tip122 and pre-driver for the 10 drop target

Game should work great for awhile now. Time to shop it out and add it to the line up.

Thanks for everyones help.

#27 10 years ago

I think we will start making you play one handed on Sunday's. Oh wait the old guys won this week. LOL

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from BowlingJim:

I think we will start making you play one handed on Sunday's. Oh wait the old guys won this week. LOL

Good thing you turned off the shaker motor on TFTC. It could've caused your hip to break !!

BTW that Alien Poker would look nice in the pro shop

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