Just use the stock speakers with a powered sub woofer...it will sound great and you can hook 2 pins into one sub...

This lack of highs is what I have heard before after a backbox speaker upgrade. I don't quite understand why and thus I have not upgraded to FF or PP. Though I do want to try it but not if the result is worse than my stock setup. I do have a external sub that I got when I purchased by BayWatch and it is VERY nice for deep bass.

I kind of felt the same way when I bought a kit for WH20. I was like, hmm. That's it?

Is there still a low/high input on the sub for the speakers? One will give you more treble as I recall.

Try a lot of adjusting and you may like it after all. I know after playing mine for a year and then a stock WH20 I liked my FF kit much better.

IMHO, FF sucks. I picked up a METLE with FF system in it, and it sounded horrible. Yes there was more bass, but all the highs were muted and muffled, even with the L-pad adjusted all the way for max backbox. You had to turn the sound up to high 40s before you could make out the music, and at that level the bass starts to distort. I ripped out most of it and changed it to my own amplified/equalized system and am much happier with the sound.

Simply changing the factory speakers to a quality sub and good coaxial 4" backbox speakers will be enough improvement for most people. If you want more, get some amps and EQs and do it right. FF is a hack.

I have 2 FF kits sitting under my STTNG and BK2K waiting to be installed and you guys have me worried

I put them in my BK2K and thought the same thing. They sounded muffled. I tried the low/high setting and that didn't help so I put the original right speaker back in and it was much better. I have a little more low end than before but I wouldn't buy them again.

Up the game's volume and turn the FF (backbox) volume knob up?

Yes and I kept the sub in as well. I believe the original right speaker is a piezo speaker and that's where most of the upper frequencies come from which was missing with the FF kit.

FWIW, I like them just fine in my AC/DC and my MET. I know you can get your teeth rattled with a powered sub, but in my house it's just not what I'm going for.

I have had the same experience as you. At one point all my games had FF or PP kits in them, I removed them and sold the kits at a loss.

Lesson learned.

We put a set in my buddies MET and took them out the next day, they sounded horrible...

Well I recently installed a Pinball Pro speaker set with sub upgrade in my ToM , and really disapointed too.
It cant be compared with external sub , I wont drop another 200$ on those kit , I will buy another external sub before ...

The kits, from both assemblers, aren't very good

external sub is the best way to go, with stock speakers. polk audio psw-10 kicks ass, and can be used for two pins

Wow. I love FF and I have them on all my games. Powered sub isn't an option, so these are a 'must buy.'

removed the kit from my TAF a few days after installing and went to psw-10. couple pins i bought had the FF kits in them already, kept them in and still put external sub on it.

I have FF on my Congo and I love it. I personally find the stock speakers too tinny when you jack the volume. The FF speakers smooths that out so you can crank it and not get annoyed. What you're calling "muffled" I find to be an improvement. I'm sure if we looked at it through an EQ, you'd see a flatter overall representation of every frequency rather than a abundance of highs on the stocks.

^^^^ Listen to him. I have first hand played his METLE machine - good mercy - that sucker is loud as all get out with excellent high frequency and clear trebles. The bass on it is seriously like a bomb going off. When you get to CIU and pick FWTBT, holy crap, it is truly unreal.

I am flat out copying his setup soon. Nothing comes close to it. Don't pay the high markups. Do a lil' homework, bust out your manual, find out what size speakers you need, and build your own setup. Pinball speaker systems in a box are not worth their money - at all - period.

They will not be....there is not enough power output to make a difference! The only way these speakers will sound better is with more power... Best thing you can do, a powered sub with stock head speakers... Cheaper, and a serious difference... Only other option is to add more power to them with a car amp.

Care to elaborate?

I run a Polk PSW10 on several of my pins which is great, but would be interested in what you used for back-box speakers.

I've used PP kits in the past, but don't find the cost worth it.

This is what he uses for the backbox speakers.

http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-plg42-4-coaxial-speaker-pair--267-717

are those simple plug and play or do they need additional power?
Looks like they are $18-$20 shipped on e bay

Plug and play. I've done ones similar on both my BSD and HS2.

Wow, I just looked at the "other" pre-packaged sound system prices - holy crap ....

The only game I have or had which doesn't sound good with aftermarket speakers is my JM. Muted is a good description.

Flipper fidelity comes standard in America's Most Haunted. They sound really good in that machine.

just ordered a pair for my MET ....if I like them I will get several pair

Remember, you have to go all out with what Metallik is talking about. Don't buy just a set of 4" and expect to be blown across your pinroom. You have to make sure you have the external sub and most importantly the amplifier.

Just don't want you to be disappointed. Don't get me wrong; the difference is noticeable, but the amplifier is probably the key to the setup.

Short version of what I did:

- New backbox speakers like those Pyles http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-plg42-4-coaxial-speaker-pair--267-717 There are other models.. anything in $20 range should be fine.

- New cabinet sub - Pyramid 8" http://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-wx85x-8-white-poly-woofer--290-272

- Get a pair of these equalizer/amplifiers http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-AVA1404-Amplified-Equalizer-Subwoofer/dp/B0002OI39Y

- Then finally an old PC power supply to use as a +12V source. Or you can simply buy a good (10a+) 12V power supply.

Install the amps and power supply in the cab. I use the service outlet to power the setup.

Bring the game's speaker output from the backbox down to the cab, split it to L/R channels and connect it to speaker-level input on one of the amps. Bring that amp's output back up to the speakers (you'll only use the front or rear set of output - use the fader on this amp to control volume level of backbox by dialing away from the output you chose).

Repeat for the cab sub - game's sub input to speaker level input on the other amp (just using one channel L or R - I don't think these amps can use both channels on one speaker, and one is plenty for that Pyramid anyway). Run output of one speaker to Pyramid sub. Use fader to control volume, although in all setups I've done this stays at full and it's the backbox that usually needs turned down.

Now use the equalizers to adjust the sound just how you like it. Kill the bass on the backbox amp and kill the highs on the cab amp; adjust highs/mids for what sounds best in that particular game. Remember that the game sounds different when closed up, so adjust and play a few games, then fine-tune adjustment.

To really kick it, add an external sub and use the cab sub as mid-bass and the external for the booms.

Great, I also have 2 sets for WPC, I bought one for JM the other for my Shadow, anybody know if they can be used in a Stern instead? If so how? TIA

If u want a plug n play solution for a powered sub on your iron man we have these. $35 includes wiring and free shipping in the USA.

Thanks,
Lorenzoimage-921.jpg

Let me know what happens....mine will stay in the box till you report back.

I feel like they improved every one of my machines.....including JM (I have mostly used Pinball Pro).

I noticed on my Apollo 13 that one of them in the backbox would have been wired out of polarity because the factory had cross wired it on the board. Good thing I checked or it would have sounded like crap.

I had the FF kit waiting for my Mustang premium to arrive. I liked the sound of the game as it came from the factory okay but swapped in the FF speakers thinking it would sound even better. Nope. Backbox speakers lost highs and sounded too boomy. I've already put the factory backbox speakers back in and I'll try it that way for a while. If still too boomy for me then I'll re-install the factory woofer.

I ordered the 4" backbox speakers, 8" sub and 2 BOSS eq/amps as recommended by Metallik for my MET...I will be running this system along with a powered subwoofer... I will report back when they arrive to give a comparison to the ff kit we put in my buddies MET... The cost of the material as ordered is considerably less than ff and I like the idea of the adjustability of the eq...

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Some machines like DCS sound better with the stock backbox I think.

My DM came with upgraded speakers from a previous owner. The sound is not bad, but really have to crank it up to hear the backbox speakers. Plenty of bass from the sub. But the bacbox speakers are meh. I think is a FF, not sure.

Somone told me it may be the chip on soundboard? If someone repaired before and didn't use the right chip, sound will not be as powerful as it should.

I just crank it up to 23 or so and play it. For reference, my other pins are near the default volume and sound about the same.

I have used many internal subs over the years with mixed reviews. I bought and external 10" Sony powered sub and man what a huge difference. I will never look back all external subs for my pinballs!

I'm curious what you decide too, I did the upgrade on Johnny, Baywatch and Space Jam, and wow... Space Jam had the most improvement with Johnny showing the least. I chalked it up to bad source sounds on the JM side, but if there's any way to improve that I'm in.