Not while they were the only game in town, but now they are not!

Shipping X-MEN without multiball scoring has to be the lowest thing Stern has ever done in a released game.

I'm still looking to buy a LOTR, TSPP for my collection as I enjoy those games.

Still the only game till Predator or WOZ ships. Both will be soon I hope!!!!

Well, they still had TFLE's in the factory relatively recently. One could argue that had the game had a better reputation in terms of code and physical QC, those would have been long gone and sold earlier. TF didn't have a Premium, but I also imagine Pro/Premium sales would be brisker on games with a better code reputation. I have to imagine this is why AC/DC is getting the love it is and is selling well. I bought it after the last big code update!

I started a thread in this before and will say it again. Get some top players and some beginners, sign an nda, and let them test the game and provide feedback like a focus group before you ship. It's called product management and marketing. Gets you closer to a bullseye on your customer wants.

The Sharpe brothers are local and are experts that could give great feedback. Good idea.

I'm on a research company list for providing input on new video game surveys, titles, features, etc. same industry so why not?

i am not sure they care...

totally not a cop out. The development team writes out a list of goals and rules. They then implement those. When they are all implemented, they are "done". The fact that we think the original list of rules sucks does not make the code unfinished. It makes the code suck. They are very different things.

To complete unfinished code, stern would have allocated internal resources to do this. As they plan projects and timelines, they will have a list of goals and allocate time to complete them. Once those goals are completed, the dev team moves onto something else. If those goals have been met but the product sucks, then stern has to reallocate resources to finish it or say that they're not going to.
Lyman chooses to work on this on his own time. Lonnie doesn't.

It feels like the current dev cycle at stern (like with xmen) overlaps the shipping date. And resources are still allocated onto the project a few months after initial ship. This allows us, the community, an opportunity to make suggestions. Since the team is still working, if the devs like the suggestions, they may implement some of these ideas. They wouldn't need permission to work on the code - they already still are.

In case of being dropped finished code, this would indicate to me that the dev cycle ends on shipping. Those dev resources would move onto another project. If there are community suggestions, stern would have to cease development of the new project and move resources back to the previous project. If those suggestions aren't critical they definitely wouldn't be done.
It feels like this is what happened on transformers.

*SNIP* ...Sorry Mark, I know you looooove to school us on "finished" vs. "unfinished". I don't care. LOL ....it is a cop out. $7000 games should have good and fun rules and polished presentation. End of story.

...and I know you hate when I bring it up, but TF is unfinished as long as it has the "fall off the Starscream ramp/shoot left orbit/doesn't count" bug.

...and as much as AC/DC rocks, "Back in Black" and "Let There Be Rock" have sound bugs. So it's unfinished. ...but the L-Man is gonna blow our friggin' minds w/ more updates so no reason to complain.

Last time distributors did that was for WOF in Canada.. and oops, that game never got the code update.

I am done with NIB sterns.. i say deliver a great and finished game.. then i will buy it. If LE are all sold out and Pro is not appealing to me or Premium is not available.. then they lost a sale.

I really cant blame Stern though.. they are selling out using this model so why should they change anything?..

I don't know, I just spent all day playing AC/DC, TRON, Xmen and TFLE and had a blast!! Will I love some updates, yes. Do I have great pins now. You bet.
I would not have missed out on any of these games as they have been tons of fun.

Who determines what constitutes "fun rules"? So every game that I think has boring or bad rules isn't finished? Comon Greg. There's finished and great, finished and ok or finished and blows =) I will completely agree that unlit inserts or not meeting promised features is undone. Crappy is just crappy though.

What's this Starscream problem?

Rules schmules, give me a fun layout and some decent sounds/music and I'm good.
Everything else in the game that eclipses these two criteria (for me), is the extra delicious pinball gravy.

Code can be changed/updated, layout can't*.

*Unless you really, REALLY want to that is...

Layout is definitely important, sure. Probably the MOST important part of pinball. However, the programming, modes, lights and music/sound effects are the "secret sauce" on the pinball Big Mac.

TRON and X-Men have a similar layout and shots. I wanted to love X-Men more than anything because I love the comics and the comic art on the game. I wanted it to force me to sell stuff to get my first NiB.

I played TRON and it had that elusive extra magic that made it FUN.

Bought a TRON 2d from JJ last month.

If you shoot the Starscream ramp and the ball falls off to the left orbit (due to Starscream kicking it off or just flailing off on its own), and then the ball rolls back to the left flipper ...if you shoot the right orbit after this, it won't count the shot. It's pretty annoying if that shot is lit and you shoot it and nothing happens. Time is tight and modes are long...so that one shot not registering can cause you to blow a mode or if I recall correctly, even a Multiball. There's something about the game's logic that makes that right orbit shot not work if it senses the left ramp entrance but not the return!

Ah, that explains a lot. Why do you bother posting? Robin, can we have a Credibility Flag feature for the forum, so I can set it to zero for members like this?

On the bright side, I do have some great pinball news. Transformers will have a wicked cool transforming toy! I saw it in the Stern promo video!!!

Thanks Greg. Haven't noticed that yet. I have noticed that I can't win the Starscream extra ball to save my ass. Is this impossible?

Also, is there a reward for finishing super spinner and super pops? Or do you just get the points and a cookie?

Probably because the sequence of switches looks like a left orbit shot, left orbit hit, right orbit hit in that order. So it's got a bug. So do some other games. Big deal. In the several hundred games I played on my TFLE that never bit me once. I consider it a total non issue.

It's a bug. If the right orbit is lit, and you shoot it, it should count the shot. I used to work as a game tester. When something in a game doesn't work right & the cause can be repeated and documented, it's a BUG.

Starscream extra ball isn't impossible, just very hard. You can change it from 3 hits to 1 or 2 in the settings. Give yourself a present..make it easier.

Super Spinner & Super Pops just get you points....dats it.

That's where a lack of imagination comes in. You should"get" something for that. Special MB where you nail the spinner then a random shot, nail the sinner then another shot, etc. Hit pops, nail OP, repeat. Something like a Gift from the Elves or Ring Frenzy mode. Or at least light EB or Special.

I don't mind the overall code on TFLE. Hats off to Lonnie for the two rules sets and some other interesting twists on traditional rules. But it doesn't have the "extras" that make games like LOTR and MM special. Not many games have this, so no real knock on TFLE or Lonnie...but why not? If you're going to make a special game, don't stop at "good enough".

I also miss jackpot call outs...that's a big omission. A double jackpot callout will remind you you're getting close to SJP, etc. and it justs feels right having a callout there.

Would like an attract mode flipper button reaction too, while I'm spewing.