+1 to everything you said

Are all the machines .75 to play?

Can't give more value when stuff is on quarters since people will just come and change $100's of dollars to make that extra!!!!

Brian

Just came back two weeks ago from Vegas. Went to the Pinball Museum and had a heck of a time getting a cab back! Worth the trip though. There is not enough time to play everything.

Also, the Pinball Museum had pins on the strip at the Riviera. Only one other guy there and he told me he was on Pinside - cumulonimbus - Great guy.

by any chance did you take any pics? Which were the worst offenders? Thanks.

I dunno wtf is going on at the PHOF...but most of my Sterns at home have thousands of plays and still look brand new...and I'm not even as anal about cleaning as some collectors. I've also purchased heavily routed Sterns (Austin Powers from a dumpy fast food joint & a pitch black dirty Elvis with 40,000 plays) and when I was done cleaning and shopping them they looked HUO. They must be filling the games with dirty rusty balls or something.

I was at PHOF a couple weeks ago too and had a blast. There just isn't enough time to play all the games. It was my first time ever playing MM, AFM, and a couple other B/W a listers. Really cool playing Pinball Circus!

I was way better on Pinball Circus than my friend who was with me. No contest. Probably embarrassing for him. Gee I hope he doesn't read this....

I have to pick on the ACDC that was there. It was in really poor shape. It had several issues including the total inoperability of the lower playfield. And it looked like it had been played for years, not months.

Overall though, it was a pretty awesome place with tons of games. I didnt mind coughing up 75 cents a pop.

I don't have an issue with even $1 a game, but the games gotta be in good working order. I was there last Thanksgiving and it was similar to the reports above (though I think the Riviera stuff must be new).

I was there a month ago and had a great time. Definitely better than dropping money into slots!

All the games I played were 75 cents. Maybe some of the older ones were a quarter still?

I agree about the lighting. Particularly bad when I was there was the LoTR was right by the open front door, sitting in sunlight so harsh nobody could play it. A couple of the machines have some information tacked onto them, like that weird circus themed, sort-of-vertical one (sorry, can't remember the name), but it would be nice for the pins to all have some info about them nearby to put them in context. But maybe that's just me.

I had a cab drop me off there too, but I took his card and gave him a call when it was time to go. He was too fast though - I left some balls on Austin Powers.

Define "destroyed." Were there big worn to the wood parts on the playfields? How did the scoops look?

I tend to take the "PHOF games are destroyed/not well kept" with a grain of salt, but do you have any pics of the newer Sterns that caused you such alarm?

A game can be dirty, and not be destroyed. A game can have bit of shooter lane wear and scoop wear, so what?

Or, are we talking legitimate large amounts of broken plastics, assemblies and large noticible wear in the middle of the playfield?

Not here to defend PHOF, but I remember a post where someone was lamenting a "poor" Tron LE getting damaged in the wild and showed a pic... of minimal scoop wear!!!! The horror, the horror...

Some people are too used to seeing games that are HOU or with repro playfields these days; I am not saying you are in that boat, but more people seem to be filling it up every day.

We were out this Spring and I spent a fair amount of time talking to Tim and a couple of the volunteers he had working the one day. Hands down Tim's biggest problem is he is trying to hard to give money away and does pretty much everything by himself. He has no paid help, from what I understand, and he is normally there every day from the time he opens till time he closes.

It was kind of neat the one day I got to talk to a couple of the guys that help him out and Tim wasn't around. They all said basically the same thing - he tries way to hard to give as much as possible to charity which leaves him very little for lighting or any real frills. I was shocked he didn't even have an actual sign out front - just a banner.

What he is doing is great for the charities but not good for his pinball machines. Noble for sure but I think - in a way - he might be better off with one full time guy just working on machines and keeping stuff shopped better.

To me he is doing a hell of a job for a one man band that is giving all the profits away. But it is sad to see machines not being kept as nice as possible. But I think we could all learn something from what he is trying to do and about what is really important in life.

Just my 2 cents!

If the A listers and rare pins were shopped out on schedule, there would be no problem getting $1.00, especially for 5 balls, leaving more profit to charity, and landing more positive threads online. Seems like a no-brainer.

Jason

Pinball Circus?

An example on two newer games I played last week.

IM has wear down to the wood around the magnets - especially the Whiplash one. It is several inches in diameter! I mean it is really bad. Of course the plastic and Whiplash figure are cracked / missing. Funny thing is, I played that IM back when Tim first had it and it inspired me to buy one NIB. It was in great shape back then (early 2011). Now it is thrashed (maybe someone can post a pic as I don't have one).

AC/DC has strange wear tracks (multiple 8" vertical striations) in places along the lower playfield window. Forget that the window is cloudy but it looks like the clear is cracked or worn (I am not sure how to explain it but it looks likes someone took a razor blade and made 3 or 4 long cuts along the window).

I live here and am not prone to carrying a camera around (old phone with no camera either) so sorry I don't have photos.

In the past year or so I have seen less of Tim and more wear on the games.

Still a fun place to go.

I am not sure why you are bitching about paying 75 cents in 2012 for a 5 ball game

Wow, that sucks. I was there today when Tim and hippie unboxed a brand new BIB. Tim said the old one earned more in six months than any of the WMS games had in 20 years. Maybe that's why it was in rough shape?

The new one plays totally sweet. You should go back. Really.

Wow, I assume all of my previously routed games have at least 10,000 plays on them, ~30,000 would seem even more likely.

Still, it will be interesting to see how well the BiB holds up; I am not sure why you would put a LE out when you could just stick a Premium in its place (or 1.5 premiums at this point...). Especially when the last one was blown out in 6 months, even if it earned great.

Still, not my call. I can't blame Tim for having a scrap of fun here and there, he certainly does not seem to have taken the easy way out when it comes to running his place.

5 Balls even on new games? I mean, that's almost twice the amount of play and wear. I'm fine with 5 balls on EMs but I think most machines should be set for 3 balls.

I am happy that these machines are wearing, it means they are being played! more memories are being formed by people about pinball, which is only good for the hobby. So they'll wear, and eventually wear out, and the machines will get sold to collectors who will dump money into them to fix, etc. Sure, as a player I prefer the machines to be mint. They play better, for sure. But it's more than a full time job to maintain 100+ pins. I know Sarah at Pinball Wizard has a full-time tech, and she herself also does work on all the vids and pinball machines, but there's still going to be minor issues. I had a party two weeks ago with two of my pinball machines and I was scared to death one of them would break

I think 5 balls for new machines is terrible because of the context. Most pinheads who play there are visitors who don't have a ton of time. They want to play everything. Now that it's five balls, a guy can put 75 cents in Avatar and play the damn thing for an hour without even having a great game! It makes me frustrated when I have to walk away from free games because of time.

Furthermore, I think he'd make a lot more money for charity if he hired one or two good full time techs.

This has been discussed many times in the past.

It's his show, and he has his reasons. All unpaid volunteers.

Look here at 26 minutes:

If I'm not mistaken, Tim makes a boatload of money there and gives most of it to charity, after his minimal expenses.

There's a post on here somewhere of a presentation he gave not too long ago at one of the pinball shows.

It was interesting to watch...

Tim gives over $100,000 a year to charity and does this by keeping his overhead low.

When I talked to Tim he said he knows he could likely do things "bigger & better" but he is happy "doing as much as he can for charity and since he isn't really a business man he just does the best he can".

The Tim I met was just a simple guy doing what he could to give people a place to enjoy his pinball machines and then giving what he could back to people in need.

I think - looking from the outside - we all will see things that could be done differently but after I thought about it some how many people do you know that work this hard for basically nothing? Giving basically all his profits away and keeping cost down to be able to give more money to charity.

What he is doing is very noble and I was happy to leave the biggest part of $100 behind after spending a few hours hanging out and enjoying a bunch of machines.

Yes - I think I would do some stuff differently if I owned the place but one guy doing what he is doing for both the pinball hobby and people in need is doing more than 10 of us will ever be able to in a lifetime.

So all I can say is keep up the good work Tim and it was truly a pleasure spending some time & money at the Pinball Hall of Fame. Thanks for the memories!

Everyone saying he could do better is just their expression of wanting to help. He has such a noble cause, people just want to see it executed to its fullest.

Anyone know offhand how late the bus runs up Tropicana to Las Vegas Blvd?

I think many in the pinball community take pride in the PHOF. Wanting games to be in pristine condition for all players so pinball shows its best side to the public is natural for those really into the hobby.

So yes, I applaud Tim for all he does for charity. But it makes sense many people want the games to be in top shape to show off the awesome collection he has (I can see why people have ideas on how to improve it).

Most of us here probably keep our games in way-above-average condition and we like to play other pins that are the same. Dirty, faulty pins are nowhere near as fun as clean, working ones.

In the end though, I am glad the place is there.

When we were out and I was talking to Tim he said he had a place in back if I wanted to stay for a few weeks and give him a hand. I would have but we were on a tight schedule but I am sure Tim would love to get help for anyone who has time to give him a hand.

To me one full time tech would make a world of difference. It would lighten Tim's load, make machines much nicer, and tech would likely pay for himself just by have more & nicer machines to play. On the other hand I do understand Tim wanting to keep as much cash as possible for his causes and money going for help is money not going to charity. Kind of a double edged sword - or dammed if you do or dammed if you don't.

Anyway - great place to visit if you are in Vegas, great for the hobby & charities, and Tim is doing a hell of a job overall. I do agree things could have been nicer but on the other hand I wouldn't want to be trying to maintain almost 200 machines basically by my self so I think overall he is doing pretty darn good!

I've been down to PHOF several times now and will continue to spend as much as I possibly can in Tim's place. Yes, it is a bit rough around he edges and the machines can sometimes be in bad shape... but I dare you to think back to the arcades of your youth and picture anything different.

One thing I did notice is that there was great pride taken with some of the EM pins. There are plenty of signs indicating the low production numbers, who did the art, how this machine was restored and how many awards it won at a particular show.
The modern stuff on the other hand is simply set up, no protectors are installed and many had missing or broken parts that made them unplayable... sometimes inexpensive and easily replaced parts. I suspect that Tim may just have an affinity for those older games and maybe doesn't have as much invested (emotionally) in the newer stuff. Just a guess.

I think it would be a great idea for someone like PBL, Marcos or even Ciffy to open up a small donation button on their site to the PHOF that has one purpose... replacement parts and protection.
Maybe im way off base here, but I have to beleive that, in the end, better running pins are going to lead to more profit. I'd throw $5-$10 bucks their way for some parts.

There were at least half a dozen machines that would have gotten much more of my money had they not been messed up or dark.

Either way, still happy it's there and it is my #1 destination anytime I'm in LV.

Just my two cents.

That's an interesting suggestion. But ultimately Tim would have to be receptive to that, and be willing to put the parts in (or make time).

I did watch his seminar, and understand the guy way better. He just does things they way he's going to do them, and that's the end of that .

Yea, on one hand I do understand Tim's philosophy of 'keeping overheard low.'

It does appear, however, that he has overshot a bit, and is possibly dabbling into Ebeneezer land. Every keynote address by Tim is basically bragging on how filthy rich the PHOF is, how many hundreds of thousands in land equity they have, and how much they give to charity. Etc. Ok, all that is super cool, super appreciated, and it goes without saying that everyone is thankful of what Tim (as well as Clay and everyone else) has done, continues to do, and the great pinball ambassador that the PHOF is.

That said, it really doesn't take a lot of cash to hire someone to clean, re-rubber, and put new balls in the machines. Can we take just a sliver out of the hundreds of thousands and put it into hiring someone to work with Tim and keep the games museum kept and maintained, so that when people visit the PHOF they don't have to keep saying all these great things with a giant 'BUT' at the end of every post, describing their disappointment with the lack of upkeep on the pins?

Seriously... if they were just barely getting by, that would be one thing. But the PHOF seems to be doing very well financially, but the condition and upkeep of the pins does not reflect that.

Once again, everyone is very thankful of what Tim and others have done. I know I was at the old location many years ago in the strip mall (which had Pinball Circus facing a sunny window!) and they have made leaps and bounds since then, and their frugality seems to have been warranted at the time and that philosophy propelled the facilities to the next level. It's time to bring the upkeep on the machines to the next level as well.

It's 2 steps forward one back with this place. I didn't even want to play the Tron LE when I was there this summer. Played one game, but it was so dark and dingy it couldn't end fast enough. The ACDC was basically new...but had old code. Sorry to here its trashed. I also saw the IM when it was new and shiny, and now it looks old and haggard. Still playable though, which is more thn I could say for JP and a couple others. The TFLE was starting its slide, but still looked gorgeous. And it played fine.

That said, there's a line of other recent older Sterns that are fine. I played a JY that was like new. Tim could make and donate more money to charity if the pinball HOF truly lived up to its name. Right now, it's a decent arcade with a large selection.

Interesting... I skipped the entire line of "newer" machines and spent a good 4 hours crawling amongst the older EMs. Some I knew and many I had never seen before. Most were reasonably clean and functional. I guess being an older dude it makes sense that I would be much more interested in the games of my youth than something newer with shiny toys. I prefer the sound of a chime box over electronica as well. The other nice thing about the PHOF is the unusual and rare machines he has out. If I ever get transferred to LV, I would volunteer there in a heartbeat.

My kind of game...

IMG_1258.JPG

DITTO DITTO DITTO to all have said hires a full/part time tech.

Yes it does not cost much and will make the games MUCH more enjoyable and spread the hobby evenmore.

First time I played MM I hated it because it was on location with weak flippers dark PF, etc. How can this be #1 and #0 in my book. Obvoisualy that changed when I played a better one months later.

I think Tim is a control freak not in a bad way but likes to work on them himself.

True, he does not let the volunteers have keys to any pins. They just have quarters to exchange. I have a friend that lives near there and tries to help him but he only let's him watch people play. The guy restores pins for friends only and does very high quality work. The fact that Tim will not trust any volunteers drives the good guys that want to help away. Nobody that good will stand around and pass out quarters. He tried many times and grew tired trying to help and does not like to try any more.

I am going today! Will report on game conditioning. It will be neat to see some rare games for sure!

I remember playing GNR back in September at PHOF, and I had never seen a DMD so fried. However, the PHOF is a right of passage for any pinball fan and is always worth going to.

Was glad I went. But pretty disappointed with the condition of the machines. The ACDC was just sad.

Also made the mistake of bringing the wife with me. She lasted 30 minutes. Too dirty and dingy for her. Seems like there would be potential to make some $$ in Las Vegas with something done right...

We're all aware of the general condition of games there. Tell us what you liked instead.

The PHOF has donated more than $1,000,000 to charity since they've opened. Is that not big money?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2011/jan/11/notes-michael-douglas-ready-take-lee-wizned-pauly-/

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/16344715/400k-donation-made-to-salvation-army-of-clark-county

That's a lot and kudos to them for the charitable contribution. But, IMO, a little more investment in the maintenance of the machines and they might generate more $$$.

The condition of the games has been deteriorating over the past couple of years and that sucks.

I see more people there than years back (great for pinball) but I am sure that's overwhelming the maintenance of all those games.

We all know it's a great place but none of us want to see it go into the typical arcade "dirty pins in the corner" state. C'mon, it's one of our pinball shrines.

So I can understand the posts which express disappointment.

It's funny, Tim stated in the talk he gave at one of the recent shows that if anyone was interested in helping out with maintaining the machines he would welcome them with open arms basically.

He went was far as to say he would put someone up in the apartment that is on the property.

There's a video of his talk posted somewhere on here.

It was pretty good.

Sometimes people say they want help but it is at a level others are willing to do. A friend of mine is a top level repairman and he offered help. He was handing out quarters for days without the ability to even remove glass. Most guys of that caliber will not spend time doing that. It is a waste of talent. The guys who could hand out quarters and not do maintenance do not think they have anything to offer. Those are the guys he wants, not actual maintenance techs. I think if you spent a lot of time there he might open up but it would take a big commitment.

He definitely marches to his own beat!

Well, only one machine I played today was not working properly and that was FH. The others were fine!
My real disappointment was the lighting! It is nearly a cave! I wonder why they don't click a few more of the ceiling lights on? Anyhow, a couple hours was good fun. Played junk yard. Had never seen it before. Pinball circus was cool too! I am going to go back tomorrow nite!

The PHOF 'little sister' location at the Riviera Hotel/Casino is much better lit, far less crowded, and not nearly as cramped as the main location.

Also, open for play 24/7, food easy to obtain, and much easier to get cab in and out of.

Downside is the lack of selection compared to the mothership location. About 25-30 machines total.

I go to the PHOF quite often, and yeah the machines get a bit beat up due to the massive amount of traffic they get. My main complaint is that a lot of the machines are not level. I don't know if foundation of the building is not completely level or if all the machines really need a tune up level-wise. It's extremely annoying to have to change your play style because the ball is constantly leaning to the left or right.

That being said, it's still an awesome place to go. You get to play a ton of machines you would never get to see otherwise.

Agreed.
Those charitable donations will only last so long as the games do.
You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If that good work is to continue, people need to have a reason to drop coin into these machines.