I have 4 kids and find this mans (alleged) actions sick and deplorable. The things I would do if my children were involved sends a shiver down my spine. That being said, I was arrested, wrongly identified (by 2 Seperated people) , charged, had stories posted online and the local news with mug shots, clothing taken into evidence and fought for 3 years of my life to prove my innocence for a charge of aggravated assault on the elderly. All I was doing? Sitting in my driveway at age 18 smoking a cigarette.
People can look 9 times of guilty to unknowing onlookers. Everything pointing at guilty, and still be innocent.
Not saying he is or isn't. Hope for all potential victims involved, he isnt guilty. If he is, may God have justice.
Don't judge something from a place of assumption. You could be wrong.
Wait for facts.

If only people would really do this the world would be a better place...

From those with experience in the court system and law enforcement, how long do these cases typically take to get resolved and a verdict reached. Is it usually weeks, months, or years?

None of the above is evidence of guilt. When a case is argued in court evidence is presented. Evidence like the images he's accused of possessing.

Fanning the flames of mob mentality with unjustified conclusions is harmful to society and you should stop it. When you have evidence he has done something wrong please post it.

I'll say my piece on this and get out.

We all know the man is entitled to an assumption of innoncence. Nobody is blowing anybody's minds when they say that.

We all know SOMETIMES, rarely, people accused of these crimes don't go to jail.

We all know Pete towsenend got away with a "caution" (nothing was dismissed, no proclamation of innocence was made, no "not guilt" verdict was issued, and nobody ever said "yeah, we buy the research claim.") Pete got away with something - paying for child porn with a credit card (which he admitted to doing) that would have landed most of us in the brig for a long time.

So please stop telling us over and over again how we need to wait for the facts. The facts right now is that the guy is in a lot of trouble. Maybe this will be one of the tiny percent where for whatever reason the accused doesn't end up in jail for a very long time. Or, maybe it'll turn out just like most cases like this, and he'll plead out just like my 4th grade music teacher who is doing 50 years for similar offenses.

But stop trying to sound smart by telling us he has a right to due process. We all know that. Doesn't change anything.

Depends on if he wants to to plead guilty or fight the charges. He could always make a deal to aid the investigation to avoid prosecution or he could waive his right to a trial entirely. You never know how it will play out until he answers to his charges and either pleads guilty or not guilty.

Explain to me how I'm fanning the flames?

Here are the facts:

- search warrant issued
- computer taken by police
- arrested
- sitting in jail waiting a bond hearing

What is factual incorrect on what I wrote?

I'm not even really referring to this case specifically. I'm talking IN GENERAL terms about everything! So many people in this world have gone crazy. No matter what get the facts and do your own due diligence before going bonkers. I'm not specifically talking about this case but everything in general... the world would be a much better place for it!

I have already made my comments on how I feel about the accusations. That being said I will voice my opinion on the games a certain individual has made in the past. I do not think any different of the games that have been made in the past. I do not feel the quality or the value of said games should be effected by someone's actions after the fact. However I do feel that I would not support an individual's new products after there true colors have been displayed. Case and point. I could listen to Michael Jackson's songs if they were to come on the radio. However when he was still alive I would not go to his concert or buy a product with his likeness on it after the facts came out. Many bad people have made lots of great things. Also keep in mind most products are made with a collaboration of many people. To punish all for a single person's act would not be fair for all the others.

If anyone feels differently that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. If you do disagree please see the following. My route is always looking for more equipment. If the thought of these games are too difficult to keep in your home. I would help you get rid of that awefull thing. I will be offering a free service. I will pick up all of your unwanted Ghostbusters, Congos and Wrestle Manias. Yes I will even pick up the premiums and the LE's. Because those were the most money they are the toughest to look at. This is a free service I will pick them up and you will never have to see that game again.

I'm here to Help!

I don't think that there is an "us" or them. Some people are jumping to grab their torches and pitchforks before knowing facts. Yes he is in big trouble obviously. He's in jail, accused of terrible things.

Are you meaning guilty where you said accused? Accused of something doesn't (shouldn't) mean jail time guilty does.

I think this statement shows your lack of bias.

I think many would agree with you, however I don't believe (really not sure though so maybe someone else can confirm/deny) that the designers don't make royalties/bonuses based on the number of sales for a particular pin.
What I'm asking is: if anyone bought a new pin designed by JT, would that put more cash into his pocket?
If the answer is no, then who cares if he designed it? Buy it or don't based on whether it's a good game.

(I disagree, but still respect some of you who might chose not to buy a new release designed by JT out of principle/whatever as that is your choice, but let's not confuse these two reasons)

I was on a Federal jury pool several years ago and they had a child pornography trial they had to seat a jury for. They called nearly 100 people in and I assure you none of us wanted to have to be on the actual jury for that. Nearly everyone tried to come up with reasons to be excused, myself included. The selection, questionnaire and voir dire went on for over a week and in between we were all talking about how terrible it would be to have to look at the evidence, etc. in the case and most were definitely assuming guilt of the person charged, even though we had no idea who it even was yet. I was lucky enough to the be second to last person randomly excused and did not have to sit on the jury panel, but I was acquainted with at least 4 of the people who did get selected because Federal jury panels last six months here (not sure about other places). When I saw them after the trial I just asked what the verdict ended up being and they all said they acquitted the man after less than 3 hours of deliberation and that it seemed very clear the charges were bullsh*t. Why do I bring this up? Because this was a FEDERAL trial, they have massive resources and had to have spent many months bringing this person to trial but 12 people (most of who went into it assuming guilt) from a pretty conservative, law & order type community acquitted him very quickly. Now it could be that the rules of evidence, trial procedure, etc. went the defendants way and he was actually guilty but I would guess not. So my point is that the presumption of guilt just because they got a search warrant, indictment, etc. is way off base. I hope he's innocent and I hope that he can somehow move past this but it's nearly impossible for someone to do because of this mentality that he must be guilty if the case proceeded this far. If he's guilty I hope he rots in jail and in hell afterwards.

a harrowing read for those unfamiliar with the true workings of the american criminal justice system:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/innocence-is-irrelevant/534171/

I guess this means he won't be at Expo to sign my GB translight. I wonder if county allows visitors? I'm sure I could get it done there.

Like you're going to expo...

Well....not anymore, since John won't be attending. If he makes bail and shows up I'll still fly up.

I had a work acquaintance that I was work friends with [go to lunch and chat at work] get charged and convicted of child porn. He had downloaded a torrent and seeded it apparently. Was on a computer I helped him build a couple years before. Got him for possession and distribution charges. It was 2 years before he was found guilty in the system and he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He was in his early 60's at the time.

He's out now I'd guess, but after learning his sentence I never followed his case and certainly not going to look him up now.

He didn't seem like the type that would be into that, but you never really know people. He did the audio setup in his church and was very involved in church activities. Never had a clue what was lurking beneath. You only see what they present.

I think it is silly to talk about not buying or selling any game that JT had a hand in designing. Where does this logic end? My guess is that he probably provided feedback to other designer on other games. Why not just sell and boycott all Stern games just to be sure they're not tainted. Sell all Midway and Gottlieb games just to make sure he didn't work on other games in your collection.

How about all of the other people that worked on the game? There are probably dozens of people that had a hand in making your JT game putting as much or more creative energy into that product development; artists, musicians, other designers on the team, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, coders, operations, accountants and labors just to name a few. It's likely that the time JT spent on his portion of the game is a fraction of the time other people spent.

And was all of JT work original? Sure, he was a major force in pinball but he was certainly influenced by others. Creatively, everyone is influenced by others. They stand on the shoulders of other giants that came before them. When I listen to podcasts with older folks in the industry, they talk about certain people starting games and then they are given to other to complete. Kanada recently interviewed a female artist who's been retired from the industry. It is amazing how inaccurate the IPDB was on games she worked on and how much work is moved around between and within the creative team(s). My point is JT is only a part of the development of each machine and we don't even know how much influence he really had on each game.

I've seen this exact situation in another hobby of mine. This is the problem with hero worship in any hobby or creative domain. We put these people up on pedestals. When the hero fall, it makes people depressed, angry and sometimes irrational.

It's interesting that several folks here with any sort of awareness of the legal system are basically saying "let's wait and see how this develops", but others are basically immediately ready to condemn him and are essentially shouting "hang him!" (or worse).

A quick search in the inter-web and you can find examples of people wrongly accused of CP and in many of the ways already listed in this thread. Malicious software, malicious spouses and malicious coworkers, etc.

I understand that. I was simply pointing out that painting any and everyone who's ever been charged with some form of child pornography is a huge dirty scumbag without any value to society is shortsighted and IMO very unfair.

So, after the person has served their time for the crime and are released, are they still defined as that? They are labeled as sex offenders.
DO they still have no value to society? I don't know the answer - just asking the question.

Ususally, you do the crime you do the time. After you've served your punishment to society, you should have a clean slate?

If convicted, yes they are registered as such for life.

I have a close relative who is an FBI agent. She works on cases like these very frequently. I asked her how these types of situations come about, and her response was that child porn consumers are often baited by officers posing as distributers in online "marketplaces" or forums that harbor people like this; often on the dark web. Once they see either a flow of money or a flow of material, they can issue a warrant to search a computer. ISPs may sometimes forward suspicious activity to the police for investigation, but more often than not, it's the former situation that catches criminals, as VPNs now make it nearly impossible to track a users browsing history, and browsers like Tor do well to hide identities. Sometimes the baiting takes weeks, months, or even years, but it is the preferred method, as law enforcement officials can catch large consumer rings all at once, they'll almost always have all the evidence they need, and they don't have to rely on often inaccurate IP addresses to catch people. A transfer of currency is almost always the kiss of death.

An interesting thing about all of this is that 9 times out of 10, it's a porn consumer that gets caught. Not the producer. The same goes for conviction rates.

Also, human trafficking is no joke, folks; which often results in situations like these. It's disastrously common here in the United States, just as much as it is in other countries. Often, students are lured into these positions from other countries to the USA by people telling them they'll provide free travel and housing--just as long as they do "this one thing." It's incredibly harrowing.

All that can be done now is to see where this goes.

Everyone's level of forgiveness is different. Certain things I have a zero tolerance on. I can't stand when anything bad happens to a child. Even in a horror movie if something bad happens to a kid the entire movie is usually over for me. And I know that is a movie! In real life some things are never condoned. That happens to be a big one in my book. I know we are supposed to forgive but if anyone was proven guilty of this type of crime. I would never be able to forgive.

Honeypot operation.

Ignore_Me (resized).jpeg

In the situations that I was referencing earlier, I'd argue that they shouldn't be serving any time to begin with. They shouldn't have been charged at all. (Eighteen year old with sixteen year old girlfriend, two sixteen year olds taking images/video for their own personal use.) In both of those cases people served jail time and were sacked with a label that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

Do I think that all sex offenders are scumbags? Nope. Do I think that our country's legal system has major flaws that ruin an individual's life on a daily basis? Absolutely. (Just look at the amazing number of folks in jail for smoking marijuana.)

I'm not here to argue that a person looking at a sexually themed image involving a four year old kid is something our society should condone by any means. I am here to point out that I feel that our society has an obligation to improve our understanding of mental health, and that pedophilia is as much a mental condition as schizophrenia. There's groups out there that are forced to operate deep underground full of people who find themselves attracted to children ( https://www.virped.org/ is one example), yet they are unable to attempt to deal with something that they feel is morally wrong because of societal stigmas and in some places, fear of the law.

It seems to be human (or American, for sure) nature to villify anything that fits outside the norm. I'm not condoning pedophilia by any means, but I am condoning a more common sense approach to prosecution, and pointing out the need for mental health services to assist. Simply writing off a person's entire life with a rubber stamp of doom doesn't sit well with me.

I can't believe it had taken me this long to see this thread...

It's a sad day for pinball

I guess my Raven Pin wont be going up in value anytime soon ...

its the pinball version of OJ Simpson! Will Twitch stream the trial?

Looks like you brought a Translight to still have signed, what are you doing?

IMG_6834 (resized).JPG

Picked a hell of a day to get a The Machine: Bride of Pinbot. Just yesterday, I loaded up the BOP that Jjsmooth had been working on for six weeks. It's a killer machine with a great restoration. Just an inauspicious day to pick it up.

In the court of public opinion there is no presumption of innocence

Turn on the TV, it's 24/7. Guilty first, bad or evil. The facts don't matter in today's world

Like Levi said, of course he has a right to a trial and to be presumed innocent under the law and afforded a jury trial by his peers. That standard is afforded to all of us.

I have 3 girls. If he was my neighbor he's guilty until proven innocent. Period

The best part is, that unlike Jackson or Towshend, Trudeau doesn't have millions of dollars to stay out of jail.

#KillYourIdols

It's just sad either way you look at it. This horrible thing is happening to children.

In pinball he was known for the Trudeau gap... In jail he'll be known for the Trudeau gape!

Guess we now know why his pinball nickname was Dr Flash. *winces*

Oh man, just saw this. Bummer. I'd didn't read all the posts so maybe this was brought up, but I remember that an NBA player known as the Birdman was accused of child pornography and it ruined him. The NBA wouldn't let him play. Everyone thought he was guilty, and months later it was found out that he was basically framed. The news spent a ton of coverage on him being accused of child pornography, but practically no time reporting his innocence.

Also, I feel bad for thinking this, but when I read of Trudeau's arrest, the first thought I had was, thank god it wasn't someone at Stern whose games I liked, like Borg or Lyman.

Sigh...
Just Sigh...

Wow. I'm stunned. So sad...

Judge Dredd: 90 years for child pornography!

Then I hope that if you are ever accused of anything you expect everyone to treat you the same way.

This is going to put Stern in a real bind if the rumours of their next game are true. So much money spent on the license, the media package, the art and the design. The game itself must be finished enough to be able to hand over to someone else to complete and pretend the prior association was never there, but is that going to be enough? Could it potentially sink the company if they were to just pull it and start over? I couldn't even begin to imagine how you'd have to go about making a decision like this.

A sobering statistic for the "just sayin" and "these things often turn out to be misunderstandings" crew:

The conviction rate in U.S. child pornography possession cases is 97 percent, according to the Crimes Against Children Research Center and the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

So in other words...good luck Dr. Flash. Maybe just a misunderstanding like the countless examples we keep hearing about in this thread from all the legal experts.

Yeah.
So would Pinside.

When I first read the article last night I was shocked. My second reaction was hoping it was somehow a mistake.

Obviously this entire situation sucks. The true victims are those poor children. That said I will absolutely not assume that anyone is guilty because of an arrest (search warrant issued or otherwise). This is not to discredit anyone involved in the investigation or the arrest. I just don't know how I could pass final judgement on someone without being presented with the facts. It just doesn't seem fair to me.

Some of you here seem to have already made your decision about John. I'm not telling you how you should feel but people have been wrongly accused (even if 97% of the time these situations lead to conviction).

I've met John on a few occasions and found him to be a nice guy. Does that mean he is innocent? Obviously not but I can't say for certain he is guilty either until the facts are presented.

I hope that justice prevails one way or the other.

A sobering statistic from the above article: "The vast majority of felony convictions are now the result of plea bargains—some 94 percent at the state level, and some 97 percent at the federal level. Estimates for misdemeanor convictions run even higher."

And: ""...plea bargains make it easy for prosecutors to convict defendants who may not be guilty, who don’t present a danger to society..."

When the evidence is presented for me to evaluate I'll decide if he did anything wrong. Until then he's 100% innocent.

Just close the flipper gap, job done! . Seriously, close the flipper gap, change a few things, move a few posts a few millimeters then say its be significantly redesigned ( only when asked, otherwise no need to even mention JT ). They are under no obligation to show the 'old' layout vs the new. Also knock it out of the park with artwork, code etc and everyone will forget all about JT.

wtf?! super bummer.