I was looking up something that had nothing to do with this thread, and one of the quick ways for me to do that is to check my favorite threads.

Then I was wondering if this is in any ones favorites?

Checked, 39 at this time.

People can do what they want, but I would never favorite a thread like this!

Your unfounded assumptions are a detriment to society. You and others who are willing to punish before guilt has been determined are perpetrating an unjust world.

Your actions are causing real, demonstrable harm to someone and their friends & loved ones.

You and your ilk have learned little since the Salem witch trials, the internment of Japanese Americans on WWII, the Red Scare, or the myriad other examples of a kangaroo court.

I detest the faulty thought process that you think gives you the right to deny someone the due process we all deserve when accused of a crime.

I don't get it? I "favorited" this thread so that it would be easier for me to locate and check back in. What's your angle?

I have only put this topic on my favorite list in order to check on it every day. This is definitely not one of my favorite threads. At the time I put this thread on my favorite list I had no idea it would remain at the top of the forum for a full week.

Canada ain't so far away, but yeah, it would make it more difficult I'd think.

F**k off with that noise. This didn't just appear outta thin air.

for the pinball community it did. maybe the police or whatever have a solid case but we dont. for all of us here on pinside, this literally did just appear outta thin air.

I could have sworn there was a post in this spot. Lasted 11 minutes, but a moderator must have deleted it. I figured it would get moderated with a possible thread eject, but I didn't realize mods completely deleted.

It was in response to post 1182. Nothing of importance.

I read it. You deleted it yourself, or the mods?

Not really true.

Many pedophiles were abused themselves and then unconsciously/consciously repeat the cycle of abuse. The repetition compulsion.

I have never deleted a post.

Post #1258 is gone.

WTF are you smoking lmfao ?????

My only interaction on JT was on a friend's FB page when he told me what a piece of garbage I and other liberals were. How we were criminals, etc. Seems like he was clearly a pretty disturbed dude.

Uh, no. Rather, study said pedophiles are more likely to be left-handed. Big diff, dude.

I think you missed the point. I'm a terrible judge of age, but that kid ain't 10. You're still living in "parental fantasy land" where everything is rainbows and candy. You'll figure out what I mean in another few years, LOL.

I understand what you are saying perfectly. My kids are 21 and 18 so I perfectly understand how you want to sell them to a travelling circus at times. That beautiful little girl is my grand daughter who my daughter had at 18 because she hooked up with a drummer in a band that who's real job was waiting tables at Fridays. I made a mistake and lost my shit and told her to get out. Bad mistake, real bad. It lasted 8 months and he was an ass to her and cheated on her and she came back home. There really aren't words to describe how much I love that little girl. She is the light in my otherwise boring life. I'm afraid though that her mother hasn't learned her lesson as she is dating some guy she met that is a pipe fitter and is taking the child to do things with him. I said something about not settling for the first guy that came along and waiting for someone who had a college degree and a good job and now I'm and asshole and she isn't speaking to me.

Sorry not sorry. YeOldPin, we've had some nice interactions before, and I'm not doubting your character whatsoever. Just because some of us believe no good will come of this is, and he is already guilty of "something" heinous, in no way compares to the Japanese internment. However, I get yer point.
Do I want him to be innocent, and this all a big mistake? Of course.
Do I need to wait until he's tried and convicted to pass judgement? Of course.
So I will excuse myself from this thread because I know what the rational thing to do is; but I also know what my gut feelings are. Like someone already stated... where there's smoke, there's fire. Hope I'm wrong.

Incorrect. There was that one cryptic, anonymous post in 2013 by someone saying "don't leave your kids alone with JT." Which got glossed over and dismissed by "all of us here on Pinside".
Be back in Austin this fall mang, hope to hang again at the greatest arcade on Earth.

yea, but the internet has shit like that all the time. Now if it was several posts by different people, then people would have probably taken some notice.

Yes that is very mysterious, but it got glossed over because it's pointless out of context. If someone knew JT was abusing children, and their course of action was to make a strange, cryptic anonymous post of one sentence on a pinball forum, then they have major problems as well.

Agreed.
This topic just hurts my head so I'm gonna go cut the grass then help my daughter with her geneology project.
Have a great extra long party weekend peoples!

Maybe glossed over at the time. Given the current context I think it's noteworthy. We have no idea if the poster took other action, nor who they are or how they determined what they believe is factual. Perhaps they notified law enforcement, perhaps they fiercely followed John at pinball shows and took photographs from behind. It's a lead worth investigating but without further information it's nearly worthless.

No worries Gryszzz. I don't take it personally. I do think it's important for people to have good reasons for what they believe. Many times it doesn't matter but in the case of crime and punishment it does. Recall the Satanic Panic back in 1992? A couple spent 21 years in prison for something that never happened: http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/23/satanic-panic
That's from right here in Austin.
Another case in the news right now someone wrongly convicted: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/local/greg-kelley-case-cedar-park-council-moves-toward-police-policy-review/QzeSIvZzUvcsKBoB25XZTK/

It's bad when people get due process and still suffer. It's worse when they're punished without due process and have little recourse against those that have harmed them.
The risk to society is almost zero if you wait for due process before punishing someone. The risk of harm to the accused is high if they're punished before due process.

The people who think he is probably guilty here are not on a jury, are not his employer, and have no power over his life. They cannot control their gut feelings on what they might think about his guilt or innocence. It's like demanding an atheist believe in your god. He can lie to you and say he does to avoid persecution, but you can't force him to actually believe when they can't even force themselves to believe. So layoff with that gestapo crap, all of you thought police out there, and learn the difference between accepting the notion legally of innocent until proven guilty, and the personal beliefs of whether someone might be innocent or guilty.

This isn't just some rando website stuff he may have inadvertently downloaded. This was an investigation conducted by two different local/interstate departments. Seems like you had a complaining party in one jurisdiction that was followed up/investigated in his own.

Sadly it isn't isolated to just paedophiles, a child who is victim to any form of abuse in their childhood is often likely to go on and repeat that cycle. It is often the same for a child who grows up in a household with violent parents or parents/guardians who have drink and drug problems, often the child will go down the same path as its familiar and known, sadly looked at as a kind of safe place when the chips are down.

Certainly with alcoholism and drug addiction the ironic part is those people usually fall victim to repeating the cycles they are most trying to avoid, the harder you try to avoid it the quicker it pulls you in.

This is why I would never practice criminal law.

Some of my friends that do can professionally separate what they know their clients did from the defense each person is entitled to under the law. It's what they do, defend their client to the best of their ability and that includes working with the prosecutors to reach a plea agreement to clear the docket.

How many cases go to trial? A very small %.

I would expect some sort of plea agreement here. Because that's how the overwhelming % of cases get resolved.

Of course it's possible he's wrongly accused and will have to go to trial. Or the prosecution simply drops the case at the next evidentiary hearing due to lack of evidence.

That remains to be seen. If that was my client and he was innocent and we had exculpatory evidence I'd moving heaven and earth to get him exonerated yesterday

Maybe I have you mistaken for someone else then. My bad. I'm absolutely horrid at Guess Who...

That's pretty much the 'tude I get from the 13 year old any time he doesn't want to do something.

Or people could explore the idea that drawing conclusions without much to go on is a horrible idea... that in this case also leads to destroying lives.

But if people actually had that kind of self-control, pinside would be a fraction of what it is, because 90% of the traffic here is people judging before they have enough to actually do so. You know, new releases, how games play, etc.

You are missing the point. People can't control what they think or what conclusions they draw. We are not Jedi. People think what they think based on the evidence that is available to them. You can't fault someone for their thoughts. You can only fault them if they act on them to cause harm. Why is this so hard for people to understand.

If you're so adamant about JT's life being ruined, then preach to someone who can actually affect it. Go to Stern and demand that they let him go back to work at full pay pending the outcome of this case.

Somehow I doubt there would be much sympathy here if this wasn't someone hero worshipped by the community. I seriously doubt this wait and see approach would be applied to everyone charged in a matter like this. It would be nice if this much "compassion" was shown for all defendants in the legal system.

The thing is, if this were just some random dude that none of us knew, we wouldn't even be discussing it since it would have basically no impact on our community.

But since we know the guy, this situation does have an impact on our community unfortunately, so here we are discussing it.

I believe that if this was a random member and not say a pinball legend the replies would be a bit different. I think this thread sums up the flaws in our justice system and the uneven compassion and presumption of innocence displayed to most criminal defendants depending on their status.

So what did he get arrested and charged for? A bad haircut?

You keep banging on about due process like nobody knows what it is or its importance. But what about the children of the images he was getting his jollies off from? Have they received due process? Who is standing up for these children?

And... what about the parents of these children whose images and videos are being circulated by sick pricks like your beloved John that you keep defending? Yes lets cut through the crap, you are defending him buddy. Are these people ever going to get justice for their kids? I can already anticipateyour response... your defending the process not the person right? Well that may be the case but you seem to be only defending the process for the accused not for the victims who are children. The victims of these pedophiles rarely get any due process or justice, the damage is already done regardless of the sentence or any legal retribution.

You wanto hide him behind the due process argument go right ahead. Forgive me if Im not particulary concerned with this scumbags feelings or anybody who is defending him.

You and others keep calling him on a first name basis. Like you know him. Can I ask does anyone know or care about the names of children hes abused? They have names, a family, parents, a favourite toy. I dont hear much talk about the rights of these innocent kids.

Sadly, it's most likely a parent or close relative that exploits these children.

The "kids" could be 17 years old.

Wait until all the facts are out, before you get all crazy.

No one here yet knows for a fact that he was "getting his jollies" this way.

They say "the bigger they are, the harder they fall," but a corollary might be "the higher in regard they are held in a niche community, the faster said community will hang them out to dry prematurely." Not as catchy, though.

Wtf, why does that make it any better? Why do you feel the need to imply that its ok.

He's an old man.

I don't give a F how you define it.

Exactly. I have been thinking if these parents are so great how did the images ever get made?

Anyone know the hearing date yet? Maybe we can get a better idea when something actually happens.

I saw 9/18 in one of the screenshots.

So another two weeks of the back and forth and stirring the pot in this thread. Yay.

How much of a difference is there between 17 years and 11 months versus 18 years, other than the legal definition? Is that person suddenly different just because they're a little older (or younger) by a few days, weeks, or months?

I think that's the point he's trying to make is that it's not as "bad" when the person is days/weeks/months away from 18, as it is when someone who is drastically and obviously way underage.

Plus, when someone gets older, they tend to loose the ability to tell specifically how old a younger person is. It also doesn't help that they are basically dressing and acting older than their actual age as well.

So, when someone happens to stumble upon some images of someone who looks legal, but actually isn't, that could be one possible scenario to explain a situation like this, despite how "icky" it might seem to many people considering the large age difference.

But, obviously this is all speculation since nobody has any of the details of the case at their fingertips yet.

My current boyfriend is 17.

He lives in OH where the age of consent is 16, so it's perfectly legal, but because of Federal laws, I can't take any pictures of him.

I always worry that his jealous ex-BF will get a hold of his phone and text some felonious pictures to me.

Robbing the cradle... good man.

To avoid any potential wrongdoing I only search for milfs and grannies.

That's the good stuff

Seriously?? What is this over-driving power that people are defenseless against?

Sure you can. When someone looks at cake batter, and says "that cake is aweful" you can fault them for not waiting for the cake to actually be made. Or looks at something not yet complete.. and decides it will be awful... you can fault them for not being intelligent enough to realize THEY MAY NOT KNOW THINGS yet they continue to act as if they do.

The difference between stupid and ignorant is... the ignorant know they don't know. You don't fault people for being ignorant in a random thing, but you can sure fault them for being stupid in the same subject.

The premise of 'people can't help themselves' as you've just outlined is ridiculous and would be a justification I'd expect if you were describing a toddler... not an experienced adult who KNOWS better and should have some awareness of what their level of information is on a topic.

I've said nothing of the sort. I've never advocated ignoring the accusations or charges. But I'm also adult enough to understand the difference between accusations and conclusions... and understand that police charges and 3 paragraphs in the paper don't tell the full story.

Is there somewhere else on pinside you see the opposite happening? If not, why apply these unequal things (what you think happens elsewhere vs the JT situation).