(Topic ID: 196539)

Just came across this... (news about John Trudeau)

By bangerjay

6 years ago


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    #701 6 years ago
    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If you feel sick for owning a game that JT has worked on, or sick at the prospect of a child playing said game - why would you entertain the idea of exchanging money for it?
    If you feel that said machine hurts you or others around you, wouldn't the best course be to destroy the machine to ensure it doesn't get further exposure?
    If you don't feel the machine is hurting anyone, then why would you sell it in the first place?

    Because money is kept at a bank and isn't something physical in your house that you have to look at every day. You can also exchange that money for a game that doesn't remind you of a pervert whenever you look at it. I'm not faulting anyone or saying that there's anything wrong with keeping a game.-there isn't. There also isn't anything wrong with selling one. Do whatever you feel comfortable doing.

    #702 6 years ago

    Thank you for the history lesson. I wasn't aware of any of this.

    #703 6 years ago

    Whatever the outcome legally, his career/reputation is FUBAR. Hopefully, he has saved enough to retire because that's what he'll have to do.

    Its ridiculous to associate owning/playing games he designed with the current charges.

    -1
    #704 6 years ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    I just learned that my Mustang was designed by the accused. Don't care.

    I sometimes help service a Mustang that is in a childrens hospital.
    Sort of ironic wouldn't you say.

    #705 6 years ago
    Quoted from investingdad:

    Folks are acting like playing one of these pins will in some way make the player complicit with or exposed to the influence of this dude.
    Not letting a kid play one of them? I'm pretty sure there's no subliminal brainwashing going on here.

    nobody's saying that. if we're going to talk about this reasonably, don't hyperbolize other peoples' statements.

    #706 6 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    How can a post like this regarding this particular subject get down voted?

    Maybe people believe in due process? Or know the difference between charged and convicted?

    #707 6 years ago
    Quoted from gjm7777:

    While it's going to be each person's own views & reasoning for selling any games attributed to JT , To those that are selling their machines in light of this news I'd ask the following questions as I'm trying to understand the rationale.
    If you feel sick for owning a game that JT has worked on, or sick at the prospect of a child playing said game - why would you entertain the idea of exchanging money for it?

    Is this an honest question, or just an attempt to attack someone else's position by trying to paint them into a corner of 100% ideological purity? Feeling grossed out owning something designed by a pedophile is a reasonable feeling to have (not that it's the only valid way to feel). So I don't think it's that hard to understand the impulse to get rid of it. On the other hand, giving away or destroying a $5000 object is not really reasonable for most people. Does that answer the question?

    Just because I don't like mcdonalds, it doesn't mean I have to burn down every mcdonalds I see. I can simply say "no thanks" and move on.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If you feel that said machine hurts you or others around you, wouldn't the best course be to destroy the machine to ensure it doesn't get further exposure?

    You're being ridiculous. See above.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If you don't feel the machine is hurting anyone, then why would you sell it in the first place?

    To answer what i think you're asking: I don't think the seller is telling other people how to feel. They feel kinda grossed out and would rather own a different game.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    I'm not calling out anyone here,

    Kinda seems like you are...

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    but when I see these machines suddenly going up for sale in various places (not heavily discounted in the slightest), I have to think that people are simply using this time to get out and maintain maximum profit - and if someone is concerned with maintaining maximum profit off a situation like this, while claiming this upsets them, makes them sick etc, well - it's very telling in my opinion.

    First of all, selling right at the height of this scandal MINIMIZES profits, it doesn't maximize them. secondly, how can you say you're not calling anyone out, and then in the same sentence call them greedy hypocrites? Your post seems more like accusations rather than honest questions.

    #708 6 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    i definitely wouldn't do that. if god forbid they stumbled upon anything, they'd have 1 of 2 choices. wipe it clean, destroying evidence and obstructing justice, or being responsible to bring it to the authorities attention. they should stay as far away from this as possible, other than terminating his employment.

    I wasn't referring to Stern. I meant the law enforcement that picked him up.

    LTG : )

    #709 6 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I wasn't referring to Stern. I meant the law enforcement that picked him up.
    LTG : )

    ahhhh... my mistake.

    #710 6 years ago

    I dont really understand why anyone cares if someone feels they need to sell their JT designed games.

    11
    #711 6 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I dont really understand why anyone cares if someone feels.....

    Well welcome to the internet

    #712 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Is this an honest question, or just an attempt to attack someone else's position by trying to paint them into a corner of 100% ideological purity? Feeling grossed out owning something designed by a pedophile is a reasonable feeling to have (not that it's the only valid way to feel). So I don't think it's that hard to understand the impulse to get rid of it. On the other hand, giving away or destroying a $5000 object is not really reasonable for most people. Does that answer the question?
    Just because I don't like mcdonalds, it doesn't mean I have to burn down every mcdonalds I see. I can simply say "no thanks" and move on.

    Yes it's an honest question, looking for honest answers as to why someone is motivated to sell nothing more. We have people that are selling their games as a result of this and I'm simply asking what are the motivators.

    You're being ridiculous. See above.

    Why is it ridiculous? If we changed the object to drugs, guns, cars, diamonds, I'm quite sure everyone would have a line to where things should not be resold, or destroyed. If something grosses you out because you look at it and you want it gone - at what point do you convince yourself the money you took in exchange, had nothing to do with the new shiny object that replaced it. In addition, the object appears to have a stigma that is tied to something horrible and condemning. Human beings in general are very good at convincing themselves of anything so long as it suits their position is all I'm saying. Is it ridiculous because people would have to take a bath and lose money?

    To answer what i think you're asking: I don't think the seller is telling other people how to feel. They feel kinda grossed out and would rather own a different game.

    I agree they probably aren't, but it's implied that they do not want said game based on the information surrounding a person (still yet to be convicted) who played a part in the game's conception. This is all of course assuming they give full disclosure as to why they are selling, not that anyone is obligated of course.

    Kinda seems like you are...

    I'm not calling anyone out, I'm asking the question. If it seems that way, then so be it but it's not my place to tell people how they should feel or act. I just want to know the reasoning as to why someone who considers these games to now be abhorrent, justifies selling them is all.

    First of all, selling right at the height of this scandal MINIMIZES profits, it doesn't maximize them. secondly, how can you say you're not calling anyone out, and then in the same sentence call them greedy hypocrites? Your post seems more like accusations rather than honest questions.

    To your first point, you cannot be sure of that. Do you find it improbable that additional people will follow suit, and prices will get even lower to compete within the market?

    To your second point, again, I'm not accusing anyone directly - this is an open forum to discuss, so I don't consider it calling anyone out. I could just as easily say that someone stating they are selling this game because a pedo had a part in them, is calling me out for being a supporter of him by choosing to keep it.

    #713 6 years ago
    Quoted from gjm7777:

    Yes it's an honest question, looking for honest answers as to why someone is motivated to sell nothing more. We have people that are selling their games as a result of this and I'm simply asking what are the motivators.

    because they're uncomfortable owning it. Hasn't this been explained?

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    Why is it ridiculous? If we changed the object to drugs, guns, cars, diamonds, I'm quite sure everyone would have a line to where things should not be resold, or destroyed.

    And everyone's would be different. Just because someone is uncomfortable owning something, it doesn't mean they think it is actively promoting pedophilia. It means it reminds THEM of that, and they don't enjoy that feeling. If a car you owned reminded you of some terrible car accident, would you be obligated to burn it rather than ebay it?

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If something grosses you out because you look at it and you want it gone - at what point do you convince yourself the money you took in exchange, had nothing to do with the new shiny object that replaced it.

    These are two totally different levels of aversion. One is "i'd rather own something else" and the other is "ALL INSTANCES OF THIS MUST BE DESTROYED FOR THE GOOD OF HUMANITY." they are not the same thing. This should be a very easy concept to grasp.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    In addition, the object appears to have a stigma that is tied to something horrible and condemning. Human beings in general are very good at convincing themselves of anything so long as it suits their position is all I'm saying. Is it ridiculous because people would have to take a bath and lose money?

    Yes. Why should someone have to be out $5k because they decided they didn't want something anymore? It's an absolutely absurd standard to hold someone to.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    I'm not calling anyone out, I'm asking the question.

    it seems like you're not listening to the answers, though.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If it seems that way, then so be it but it's not my place to tell people how they should feel or act. I just want to know the reasoning as to why someone who considers these games to now be abhorrent, justifies selling them is all.

    Well let me put it this way: They are actually doing what you are SAYING you're doing. They're saying "i'm not comfortable with this game, it makes me feel bad, but others can own it if they want".

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    To your first point, you cannot be sure of that. Do you find it improbable that additional people will follow suit, and prices will get even lower to compete within the market?

    I'd love to hear your argument for how this scandal raises prices on Trudeau's games. In general, any decrease in demand and/or increased supply is going to have a negative effect on the price on an item. This scandal is potentially doing both, or neither, but I don't see the case for the scandal actively increasing demand or decreasing supply (in other words inflating prices), so I think there's little valid argument that selling right now is somehow taking advantage of the market.

    Quoted from gjm7777:

    To your second point, again, I'm not accusing anyone directly - this is an open forum to discuss, so I don't consider it calling anyone out. I could just as easily say that someone stating they are selling this game because a pedo had a part in them, is calling me out for being a supporter of him by choosing to keep it.

    Well, I suppose I am "calling you out", i guess. For, in my opinion, accusing other people of being greedy hypocrites through a series of loaded questions. Are you saying you weren't calling anyone out just because you didn't name them specifically, or because you really believe your questions weren't arguments in disguise?

    15
    #714 6 years ago

    http://www.performancepinball.com/news/stern-pinball-hires-legendary-pinball-designerjohn-trudeau#comments

    Found the post on another forum in regards to someone commenting on John T when he was originally hired at Stern in 2013

    I am 99% this is the identical content that was in this thread but was removed back then.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-hires-john-trudeau

    #715 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    http://www.performancepinball.com/news/stern-pinball-hires-legendary-pinball-designerjohn-trudeau#comments
    Found the post on another forum in regards to someone commenting on John T when he was originally hired at Stern in 2013
    I am 99% this is the identical content that was in this thread but was removed back then.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-hires-john-trudeau

    I just finished listening to the latest Coast 2 Coast Pinball Podcast and Nate talks about this.

    #716 6 years ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    I just finished listening to the latest Coast To Coast pinball podcast and Nate talks about this.

    yup, that is what triggered my memory on it also. I vaguely remembered a comment on pinside (like Nate) but was unable to find it. Found the identical (what I remember as being identical) post on that site.

    #717 6 years ago

    Holy shit that's creepy reading that now....

    #718 6 years ago
    Quoted from Kevlar:

    Holy shit that's creepy reading that now....

    That comment from 2013, WTF? WOW

    17
    #719 6 years ago

    screen capture

    John T (resized).PNGJohn T (resized).PNG

    #721 6 years ago

    Wow.

    Reminds me of the C-Span call that surfaced after news broke about Hastert.

    http://time.com/3901774/dennis-hastert-c-span/

    #722 6 years ago

    So how will Sony feel about ongoing production, marketing and sale of Ghostbusters (pinball)?

    #723 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I am 99% this is the identical content that was in this thread but was removed back then.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-hires-john-trudeau

    No comments were removed from that thread as far as I can tell.

    #724 6 years ago

    Are we sure that post is legit, it would be really easy to fake a comment like that.

    Do any of you guys actually remember stories about this guy?

    From the posts below it looks like it's legit.

    #725 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    No comments were removed from that thread as far as I can tell.

    there were a few other threads around that time on the topic of John T being hired. I am not sure which thread it came from but I would think there is a way to search from the mod side for that day when the news broke. In typical fashion there were a handful of threads all happening at the same time.

    #726 6 years ago

    I hate to even comment on that post from 2013 but one can only imagine who and why it was posted in the manner, by someone under that name and at 3:12am.

    #727 6 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Are we sure that post is legit, it would be really easy to fake a comment like that.

    Fake the comment date and article publication?

    #728 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    there were a few other threads around that time on the topic of John T being hired. I am not sure which thread it came from but I would think there is a way to search from the mod side for that day when the news broke. In typical fashion there were a handful of threads all happening at the same time.

    I've been poking around out of curiosity, but haven't seen anything like Nate described or the comment screenshotted above. I haven't gone through each page of some of the megathreads of the time, but so far, it's not looking like the comment ever appeared here. I don't remember reading anything like that back then either.

    #729 6 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Are we sure that post is legit, it would be really easy to fake a comment like that.
    Do any of you guys actually remember stories about this guy?

    Not unless you're the webmaster. Only the webmaster would have the ability to change the time stamps in the comment section.

    Sadly enough, that comment adds more to this craziness...

    #730 6 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Fake the comment date and article publication?

    I don't know that website, just saying that it would take minutes to make a fake article and post with phoney timestamp. It is either creepy as fuck and true or someone wants to say I knew it all along. People do shit like this all the time on the net. All the fake twitter and instagram post that predict the future. I'm not defending the guy in any way, just skeptical of the internet.

    #731 6 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I'm not defending the guy in any way, just skeptical of the internet.

    Yeah it's a bit on the nose it seems but could be.

    #732 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I've been poking around out of curiosity, but haven't seen anything like Nate described or the comment screenshotted above. I haven't gone through each page of some of the megathreads of the time, but so far, it's not looking like the comment ever appeared here. I don't remember reading anything like that back then either.

    thanks for looking around. It may have been on that site or Fbookor ??? where I originally read it. Either way, like Nate I remembered reading the content back in 2013 and of course dismissed it back then as it appeared to be nothing more than trolling.

    25
    #733 6 years ago

    No, you can stop the "maybe it's an elaborate time stamp trick" line of thought. I have had a lot of people reach out who remembered that post... likely on Facebook or here. Someone was posting it in multiple places. This was the wording I remember.

    #734 6 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Yet... that is exactly what you propose. If the games were great or notable... that doesn't change... yet by trying to hide or deny that... you are trying to erase or change history.

    No I'm not. There is a big difference between going out and celebrating a person who did something horrible or just having their games there. I'm not pretending like he would go away, but saying I'm going to go burn all the Trudeau designed games is pretty ridiculous too.

    In many ways, this reminds me of the Chris Benoit thing from the WWE, and I think their response to that is the only correct one. If you don't know, a big star in the company one weekend murdered his wife, young child, and then committed suicide.

    Benoit was a big star though, big enough to headline some of the companies events like Wrestlemania, and impossible to make him disappear without completely changing those events.

    So the WWE keeps his matches and whatnot in their material when they must, but refuses to acknowledge or talk about it beyond that. He isn't in any "best matches" lists, or highlights, or anything that isn't simply the program he was on presented as it was. WWE also makes no effort to bury any part of that history, they just ignore it.

    Doing so has made Benoit as a performer basically disappear, while the events he was associated with can live on. Just without him.

    It's the only real answer that I think there is. The games don't go away. The acknowledgement and acceptance absolutely does.

    #735 6 years ago

    If that was the comment Nate remembers I don't think it would of been on pinside as well. That comment is not subtle in anyway, if thousands of people here read it someone would of picked it up and ask the poster for more details. A comment like that in a forum would not go unnoticed.

    #736 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    because they're uncomfortable owning it. hasn't this been explained?

    And everyone's would be different. Just because someone is uncomfortable owning something, it doesn't mean they think it is actively promoting pedophilia. It means it reminds THEM of that, and they don't enjoy that feeling.

    These are two totally different levels of aversion. One is "i'd rather own something else" and the other is "ALL INSTANCES OF THIS MUST BE DESTROYED FOR THE GOOD OF HUMANITY." they are not the same thing. This should be a very easy concept to grasp.

    Yes. Why should someone have to be out $5k because they decided they didn't want something anymore? It's an absolutely absurd standard to hold someone to.

    it seems like you're not listening to the answers, though.

    Well let me puit it this way: They are actually doing what you are SAYING you're doing. They're saying "i'm not comfortable with this game, it makes me feel bad, but others can own it if they want".

    I'd love to hear your argument for how this scandal raises prices on Trudeau's games. In general, any decrease in demand and/or increased supply is going to have a negative effect on the price on an item. This scandal is potentially doing both, or neither, but I don't see the case for the scandal is actively increasing demand or decreasing supply (in other words inflating prices), so I think there's no valid argument that selling right now is somehow taking advantage of the market.

    I am calling you out for, in my opinion, accusing other people of being greedy hypocrites through a series of loaded questions. Are you saying you weren't calling anyone out just because you didn't name them specifically, or because you really believe your questions weren't arguments in disguise?

    You can certainly call me out for what you feel, feelings seem to be what's dominating your arguments.

    I can certainly grasp the concept that people don't like the way it makes them feel by owning it, and for wanting to get rid of it. I'm talking about the other side of the coin - You seem to be of the mind that no one could possibly be trying to unload their games because they don't want to lose money further down the road as the main reason/ulterior motive - or you are letting emotions get in the way of seeing this perspective.

    I am again, not accusing anyone here of doing this specifically - I have seen plenty of comments in other places and forums aside from pinside that point to these exact reasons. I've also seen comments that accuse people of keeping these games as supporters of JTs actions.
    As for the market effect, I'm simply saying that unloading now would ensure the maximum one could obtain - before the proverbial mass exodus following conviction - that's all.

    I can absolutely tell you that I respect the right for each any every person to do what they see is fit - I'm simply looking at both sides and motives. If someone is saying that there is no way they would own these games given the news, and anyone who does decide to own these games is suspect - that same person should be suspect if they are taking money and moving it into someone else's home - whether it's full disclosure at best, or none at the worst.

    #737 6 years ago

    No entry in the Wayback Machine for that Performance Pinball blog post & comment, but I just captured it there in case someone takes it down.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170828220229/http://www.performancepinball.com/news/stern-pinball-hires-legendary-pinball-designerjohn-trudeau#.WaSTBFV96Hs

    #738 6 years ago

    If you go to the site and actually go thru their archives, and choose may 2013 and then scroll back thru all the articles, it's actually there with the stated comment on stated date and time. Freaky shit.......

    11
    #739 6 years ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    No entry in the Wayback Machine for that Performance Pinball blog post & comment, but I just captured it there in case someone takes it down.

    If you check the website's cache on Google, you'll see the comment was still there back in June 2017, way before any news came out (obviously). Just place the link in Google, open cache, and scroll to the actual post. When you click the link you'll see the comment is there.

    So the comment is legit, and was there all this time since 2013.

    cached (resized).pngcached (resized).png
    cached2 (resized).pngcached2 (resized).png

    #740 6 years ago

    If the 2013 statement is true, I wonder why didn't this person, who seems to have 1st hand knowledge, report his behavior to the authorities?

    #741 6 years ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    I hate to even comment on that post from 2013 but one can only imagine who and why it was posted in the manner, by someone under that name and at 3:12am.

    i'm not a court of law, i'm my own private court of opinion. and to me, it is more evidence that this is NOT just a case of "oops something got into my browser history by accident".

    #742 6 years ago

    I could not find any similar comments on RGP.

    Obviously nobody could delete it from usenet.

    -2
    #743 6 years ago

    This makes me concerned that more people were aware or semi-aware of issues with JT. We've seen this happen before at a promiment public institution.

    Has Steve Richie addressed his comment that he pulled down?

    Why hasn't Stern come out and made a professional and public statement on this matter?

    We're not talking about someone stealing a few pencils from work, here. These are insinuations that someone participated in the consumption of disgustingly illegal material... not to mention what that cached webpage shows.

    #744 6 years ago
    Quoted from indypinhead:

    If the 2013 statement is true, I wonder why didn't this person, who seems to have 1st hand knowledge, report his behavior to the authorities?

    Just because someone reports or mentions something, doesn't always mean action will be taken. Or perhaps they did report it and no direct evidence was found.

    Heck, you could have a family member afraid to report beyond making an anonymous internet statement. The possibilities are endless.

    I hope, for the sake of a lot of potentially harmed people, that this stituation is far less worse than imagination can allow.

    #745 6 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Why hasn't Stern come out and made a professional and public statement on this matter?

    Gary would be an idiot to draw attention from the media and have pinball look worse than it already does.

    If the news breaks and the media asks Gary for a statement, you know it will be "Under advice from our attorneys, we will reserve comment until the courts have produced a ruling...."

    #746 6 years ago

    It's possible this case has been building for a good amount of time - even going back years. As some have stated earlier in the thread they usually don't move on arresting unless they have a pretty solid case. It really makes you wonder at what point do people convince themselves that looking or participating in this type of activity is acceptable, the world is truly full of monsters.

    #747 6 years ago
    Quoted from indypinhead:

    If the 2013 statement is true, I wonder why this person, who seems to have 1st hand knowledge, report his behavior to the authorities?

    I can name a few that keeps people from doing that, the first being in a lot of cases it's family member, they never want to be ashamed publicly what happened to them and relive being a victim twice if they were possible one of the people involved, for court attorneys have a nice way of making victims into perpetrators..

    Then again who knows, maybe they did tell the authorities and the investigation started way back when.

    #748 6 years ago

    On the other hand, giving away or destroying a $5000 object is not really reasonable for most people.

    Your post seems more like accusations rather than honest questions.

    This points out that a person's nobility has its price. That's what I got from the other fellow's post. That he was pointing out how people afford the positions they take, being sensitive to their own personal cost of taking the positions they take. Or maybe I'm reading more into his opinion because it is my opinion as well. People silently think first of what they can afford to say, then they say it. Nobility is financial. Morality is the level we choose to pay for it. I debated what the cost might be to me for posting this message you are reading.

    Let's say that three people own the same pinball machine, a machine that is tangentially connected to this issue.

    Person "A" has tons of money and would not take a hit at 5K. Such a person could destroy the game and let everyone know he will have no part of owning such games. He afforded his morality. (Likely, though, he got rich by being savvy, so he puts the game in hiding for several years to wait it out.)

    Person "B" is not rich and he cannot afford the decisive and expensive morality of Person "A" but finds it distasteful to look at the game in his game room right now and would rather not look at it, but not at the expense of destroying it. He figures, though, that he can sell the game at no particular financial sacrifice, if not a profit. He announces that he looks to sell the game. This is what he can afford to do. He negotiated with himself what he could afford to do. In the process, he passes along to someone else that which he finds despicable, and takes his cash. How far away is that idea in concept from someone selling other despicable items?

    Person "C" is not rich and deep down really likes the game and hates that this issue has been thrust upon his awareness. He cannot be like "A" and doesn't want to be like "B" and so he appreciates the idea of de-emphasizing the designer as just one of many factors in the overall manufacture, and that is when we may see this rationale from him. He keeps the machine. He negotiated with himself his solution.

    When can we know if a person already had their stated morality about their tangential game, or had first negotiated the cost of it?

    These few motivations I write are not pretty or nice, nor are they ubiquitous, but they happen in human nature.

    If you (a non-specific, general "you") do not own one of these distressed games then your cost in the above exercise is practically nil so I would expect any outrage you have with what I say to be given at great lack of expense to you. If you are one of these owners who are agonizing over what to do, then at least your character is alive in you and if you choose to be transparent about it here then this is good to see, thank you for sharing it.

    It would be refreshing if the powerful vehemence shown by society against CP were also applied towards the taking of human life (aka murder). Instead, we arguably celebrate and normalize murder when we buy books, watch movies, and allow other expressions of killing to entertain us regularly. Who will defend this popular practice without acknowledging that we simply cannot or will not collectively pay the price to censure it?

    It would also be refreshing if more people imagined in their fact-less condemnations the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. But, a nuanced reaction has less force to it, I suppose.

    As we speak, child beauty pageants are still quite legal in America. Twerking was made a thing and given its own term and made public. Women model it to young girls. Beyonce dances like a stripper in front of our young and is richly rewarded. Should I repeat here the lyrics that Ariana Grande sang to little girls in her make-up concert in Manchester, or shall I show you on youtube (if I can still find it) where you can watch for yourself and sing along with these little girls? Last week, my friend showed me a picture taken at a recent Jennifer Lopez concert from the front row, showing Lopez clad in a thong-like garment and bent over at the waist, facing away from the public audience, showing them what men of forty years ago used to have to go into smoky windowless rooms to see.

    Some of this acceptance is selective hypnosis. Some if it is indifference. Maybe some of it is the recognition of futility of taking action.

    I took that fellow's post as a challenge to the intellectual honesty of some folks' stated positions.

    #749 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Gary would be an idiot to draw attention from the media and have pinball look worse than it already does.
    If the news breaks and the media asks Gary for a statement, you know it will be "Under advice from our attorneys, we will reserve comment until the courts have produced a ruling...."

    Sometimes it's better to be ahead of the ball, rather than behind it. How it plays out for Stern... only time would tell.

    IMO, Stern is much better off showing some common sense and professionalism and grabbing the bull by the horns in this case.

    I could be wrong. But I think staying quiet is never the best option.

    #750 6 years ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    If you go to the site and actually go thru their archives, and choose may 2013 and then scroll back thru all the articles, it's actually there with the stated comment on stated date and time. Freaky shit.......

    The site's archives are unavailable on archive.org since they were dynamically generated at the time. I was unable to verify that the article was posted at all on that site.

    If you were able to locate a cached paged, go ahead and paste the link to it.

    There are 1,376 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 28.

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