(Topic ID: 232036)

FIXED Jurassic Park blowing F5 on ppb board


By Blackbeard

2 years ago



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    #1 2 years ago

    Picked up a new JP which worked fine at sellers. Loaded up into my truck and got it home. It is now blowing ppb F5.

    You can start a game after trex goes
    Through start up diagnostics (is this normal to occur every startup?).

    I ran diagnostics and all switches work but the following coils do not (maybe because F5 is blown)
    —relay motor on/off #15
    —relay motor up/down #14
    —raptor pit coil 50v #9
    —right VUK 50v #5L
    —auto launch 50v #3L

    I also notice that when I hit the flippers, either fires the raptor coil but NOT the flippers. This occurs during a game and also during attract mode. Not sure how that’s happening.

    I need help!

    #2 2 years ago

    My first thought is your 5v power is low, causing your MPU to boot slowly. On DE machines, I’ve seen this happen and it blows F5 because the MPU holds a signal for the driver circuit too long during boot. Using the test points on your power supply, test for the 5v supply (dc). If you’re a little low, that may be your problem.

    If 5v is okay, disconnect the output of the ppb board and see if the fuse blows then. If it does, you have a problem on the ppb board.

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from MMGB:

    My first thought is your 5v power is low, causing your MPU to boot slowly. On DE machines, I’ve seen this happen and it blows F5 because the MPU holds a signal for the driver circuit too long during boot. Using the test points on your power supply, test for the 5v supply (dc). If you’re a little low, that may be your problem.
    If 5v is okay, disconnect the output of the ppb board and see if the fuse blows then. If it does, you have a problem on the ppb board.

    I’m sorry, but which connector on the ppb is the output?

    #4 2 years ago

    F7 I believe. Check your manual, will be the connector for the 50v coils.

    #5 2 years ago

    I pulled J7 and fuse didn’t blow.

    Now what?

    It’s strange because the only thing was the moving of the pin into my truck and the driving home. The head was lowered but the pin was never put upright.

    #6 2 years ago

    bump. Anyone?

    #7 2 years ago

    Did you check the 5V as mmgb suggested?

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    Did you check the 5V as mmgb suggested?

    Not quite sure how and was thinking it's fine as it was working perfectly at sellers house. Isn't a lack of 5v mean bad capacitors? I don't know how they'd go bad by just moving the pin.

    Can you refresh my memory and let me know how to test the 5v? What setting on MM and where to probe..

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Not quite sure how and was thinking it's fine as it was working perfectly at sellers house. Isn't a lack of 5v mean bad capacitors? I don't know how they'd go bad by just moving the pin.

    You'd need a multimeter to check the 5V, if you have one we can give you instructions on checking it. The power at your house could be lower than at the sellers or something else could have caused it to be lower (it's not missing or the game wouldn't boot at all), shit happens when you move games. Another option is to put a breaker in place of F5 (instructions for doing that are in a thread here somewhere) or just put a new fuse in and try to determine if you have a coil locking on when the game boots up, just be ready to turn it back off IMMEDIATELY. You may have to turn it on and off quickly a few times to figure out which one it is.

    I'd also do a quick once-over on all the connectors in the backbox, maybe one was pulled loose or partially loose when the backbox was lowered.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    You'd need a multimeter to check the 5V, if you have one we can give you instructions on checking it. The power at your house could be lower than at the sellers or something else could have caused it to be lower (it's not missing or the game wouldn't boot at all), shit happens when you move games. Another option is to put a breaker in place of F5 (instructions for doing that are in a thread here somewhere) or just put a new fuse in and try to determine if you have a coil locking on when the game boots up, just be ready to turn it back off IMMEDIATELY. You may have to turn it on and off quickly a few times to figure out which one it is.
    I'd also do a quick once-over on all the connectors in the backbox, maybe one was pulled loose or partially loose when the backbox was lowered.

    Thanks. I do know how to use a multimeter, I just haven't in awhile as I've been out of the hobby a bit.

    I think testing the 5v goes like this: Game on, MM to DC volts (larger than 5), black lead on the ground test point on PS, and red lead on another actual test point. Does this sound correct?

    #11 2 years ago

    Blackbeard - that sounds correct.

    #12 2 years ago

    Have you checked all wires if there is no shorting because of wires touching also check the leafswitches were the wires are soldered if nothings shorting.
    Download a manual at ipdb and look at the switch matrix

    #13 2 years ago

    I know this doesn't solve your issue, but to bypass the T-Rex diagnostics hold the trigger at startup.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    Have you checked all wires if there is no shorting because of wires touching also check the leafswitches were the wires are soldered if nothings shorting.
    Download a manual at ipdb and look at the switch matrix

    I have visually inspected everything, and only found one of the trex switch wires had come loose. I resoldered it, which brought back his function, so I think that is just collateral to my issues with F5. Although that switch wire WAS close to the other lug on the same switch.

    I am going to check 5v at lunch. My thoughts are there has got to be a short somewhere. All I did was lower the backbox and drive her home. The only coil that is hard to see is the raptor kick as it's under a bunch of plastics. Any way to get at it easily?

    I'll post results of 5v in about an hour.

    #15 2 years ago

    Just confirmed 5v is good on power board.

    Thoughts going forward? And what are “relay motor up/down & on/off”?

    #16 2 years ago

    I am willing to bet $1,000,000 that I know the solution to your issue. You said that you played this machine just fine at the sellers house. Then I assumed you packed it up, tilted it, jostled it around, got it in your car, rode down a road with bumps, hills, and curves, then jostled it out of the car, into the house, moving it around, tilting it, etc.

    You also said that when you hit the flipper button that a the raptor coil would fire. This would only happen if you have a diode that's disconnected, which would make sense considering that the machine was just moved from one place to another, bumping and shaking along the way.

    Check for loose wires and diodes.... REALLY carefully. Jiggle them and look closely if they have a plastic protector sleeve. I'm willing to bet you have a loose wire AND/OR diode. This would also cause a fuse to blow if the loose wire is touching something else.

    #17 2 years ago

    That’s what I’m checking for now. But I can’t get to the raptor coil as it’s under a ton of plastic. Ugh

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from MEuRaH:

    I am willing to bet $1,000,000 that I know the solution to your issue. You said that you played this machine just fine at the sellers house. Then I assumed you packed it up, tilted it, jostled it around, got it in your car, rode down a road with bumps, hills, and curves, then jostled it out of the car, into the house, moving it around, tilting it, etc.
    You also said that when you hit the flipper button that a the raptor coil would fire. This would only happen if you have a diode that's disconnected, which would make sense considering that the machine was just moved from one place to another, bumping and shaking along the way.
    Check for loose wires and diodes.... REALLY carefully. Jiggle them and look closely if they have a plastic protector sleeve. I'm willing to bet you have a loose wire AND/OR diode. This would also cause a fuse to blow if the loose wire is touching something else.

    And also look on the upper side of pf
    At the ramps by gate and top left on ramp

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    And also look on the upper side of pf
    At the ramps by gate and top left on ramp

    Is there a way to access the raptor coil without basically pulling the ramp?

    #20 2 years ago

    Remove the plastic above it
    But have you looked up in the switch matrix what is al in line?

    #21 2 years ago

    Look in the row or line (up down or left to right) what gives you problem, check those switches and wires first in that line

    b9afc27d14a5aa5a59744da5be5c8908a2bdd9e4 (resized).png
    #22 2 years ago

    All the switches work fine in diagostics, except pressing the flipper buttons activates the raptor. And of course, F5 is blowing as I mentioned, taking out the 50v coils I listed up top. Is there a way to unplug one connector at a time from the PPB board to see what connector line is cause the short?

    Except the raptor pit, I've inspected pretty much all switches and diodes I believe on the underside of the pf. I'll do the top later tonight.. and try to get to the raptor pit area.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    All the switches work fine in diagostics, except pressing the flipper buttons activates the raptor. And of course, F5 is blowing as I mentioned, taking out the 50v coils I listed up top. Is there a way to unplug one connector at a time from the PPB board to see what connector line is cause the short?
    Except the raptor pit, I've inspected pretty much all switches and diodes I believe on the underside of the pf. I'll do the top later tonight.. and try to get to the raptor pit area.

    I got to the raptor pit taking out the plastics above it. I don't believe I had to remove the ramp.

    #24 2 years ago

    Anybody know what these are in coil test:

    —relay motor on/off #15
    —relay motor up/down #14

    I'm assuming the t rex movements?

    #25 2 years ago

    So that ppb fuse F5 only blows when ppb J8 is connected. If it’s not connected, it doesn’t blow.

    Help!

    #26 2 years ago

    Bump

    #27 2 years ago

    I have had problems that when I lowered the play field wires would get caught on the flipper button switch and short out. Need to stick your head in the coin door to check.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    So that ppb fuse F5 only blows when ppb J8 is connected. If it’s not connected, it doesn’t blow.
    Help!

    It looks like J8 on the PPB powers the following:

    Auto Launch
    Raptor Pit
    Right VUK
    Shaker Motor

    I think you may have a wire on one of these mechs that is causing a short. You need to carefully review the wiring for these 4 mechs. Perhaps a wire from one of these mechs is arcing because it is too close to some adjacent metal.

    Gord

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from GRB1959:

    It looks like J8 on the PPB powers the following:
    Auto Launch
    Raptor Pit
    Right VUK
    Shaker Motor
    I think you may have a wire on one of these mechs that is causing a short. You need to carefully review the wiring for these 4 mechs. Perhaps a wire from one of these mechs is arcing because it is too close to some adjacent metal.
    Gord

    I’ve inspected these except then raptor. You can’t get to it without removing trex.

    #30 2 years ago

    Just was able to get to raptor coil and it’s fine.

    Stumped here.

    #31 2 years ago

    Something to note:

    F5 blows unless J8 is disconnected.

    With J8 disconnected and F5 with a good fuse, the flippers work without firing raptor pit coil.

    With J8 connected and F5 blown, flippers don’t work but their switch triggers raptor pit coil.

    Anyone? Is there a way to confirm issue is on playfield or on a board?

    #32 2 years ago

    Any other ideas?

    #33 2 years ago

    Shot in the dark, but have you checked the associated transistor(s) to see if they are bad.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Shot in the dark, but have you checked the associated transistor(s) to see if they are bad.

    The game worked fine at sellers but I suppose something could now be wrong with them.

    You’re talking about the tip36s on the PPB, correct? Not quite sure how to
    Test them.

    #35 2 years ago

    I'm still going with a loose/disconnected wire. LTG told me I had a loose wire and I checked them all.... found nothing. 3 days later I checked again and looked closer. I'll be damned, there it was under the VUK, a loose wire that was touching a screw. Not sure how I missed it before.

    I think you got the same issue. And if it's not a loose wire, it's a bad connector.

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from MEuRaH:

    I'm still going with a loose/disconnected wire. LTG told me I had a loose wire and I checked them all.... found nothing. 3 days later I checked again and looked closer. I'll be damned, there it was under the VUK, a loose wire that was touching a screw. Not sure how I missed it before.
    I think you got the same issue. And if it's not a loose wire, it's a bad connector.

    Possibly. But I’ve checked a ton

    Guys: I just tested the tip36 transistors on the ppb. I did RED lead of MM to tab, and black to outer leg of transistor. Granted board is installed but Q4 and Q5 buzzed, whereas the other tip36s on the board did not.

    Can I assume they're shorted?

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    The game worked fine at sellers but I suppose something could now be wrong with them.
    You’re talking about the tip36s on the PPB, correct? Not quite sure how to
    Test them.

    The reason why I suggested the transistor is because when I sold my tftc, everything was working when it left my house, but when seller got it home, F7 started blowing. He told me his tech diagnosed it as a bad transistor.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    The reason why I suggested the transistor is because when I sold my tftc, everything was working when it left my house, but when seller got it home, F7 started blowing. He told me his tech diagnosed it as a bad transistor.

    Thanks.

    Q4 and Q5 buzzed, so thinking that they're shorted. And this is assuming I tested correctly.

    So when I did power up at my house for the first time after buying it, all kinds of things were funny.. DMD, shaker motor went off like crazy, etc. The only thing I found was a T Rex switch wire had come loose and was somewhat touching the same switches OTHER lug. I fixed that and a lot of things got better..

    I'm wondering if just replacing those two transistors would fix things. I'd HATE to have to go through and remove all diodes from coils and test them. I'd rather just replace the Q4 and Q5 and hope things work.

    THOUGHTS? Also a source for tip36c? Marco has them at appx $4 each! GPE is out.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Thanks.
    Q4 and Q5 buzzed, so thinking that they're shorted. And this is assuming I tested correctly.
    So when I did power up at my house for the first time after buying it, all kinds of things were funny.. DMD, shaker motor went off like crazy, etc. The only thing I found was a T Rex switch wire had come loose and was somewhat touching the same switches OTHER lug. I fixed that and a lot of things got better..
    I'm wondering if just replacing those two transistors would fix things. I'd HATE to have to go through and remove all diodes from coils and test them. I'd rather just replace the Q4 and Q5 and hope things work.
    THOUGHTS? Also a source for tip36c? Marco has them at appx $4 each! GPE is out.

    1st thought is just replacing random things and hoping they solve the problem is generally a poor way to go about solving the problem.
    2nd thought is that I too would tend to agree with MEuRaH that its either a diode or a loose solder connection.
    3rd thought.. Slow Down. Perfectly understandable to have a new game and wanna play it. Go over that switch matrix and look for the common denominator. Go back over those connections very slowly and methodically especially the ones associated with the raptor pit. Make sure you have your meter set to diode mode snd test those diodes.
    It is very possible your loose t-rex wire shorted out those transistors if it was grounded when you powered up the machine. If you feel strongly that its a board issue send it to Chris Hibler. All headers would be reflowed and nvram installed if not already and will be better than new.
    Just my 2 cents!

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Make sure you have your meter set to diode mode snd test those diodes.
    Just my 2 cents!

    I'd have to remove a diode leg to test I believe. Or can they be tested while still attached to the coil (I don't think they can).?

    Does it sound like the way I tested the transistors seem right?

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Something to note:
    F5 blows unless J7 is disconnected.
    With J7 disconnected and F5 with a good fuse, the flippers work without firing raptor pit coil.
    With J7 connected and F5 blown, flippers don’t work but their switch triggers raptor pit coil.
    Anyone? Is there a way to confirm issue is on playfield or on a board?

    If F5 is blown, and it is the power fuse for the raptor coil (I don't have my JP anymore so I can't confirm this) but the raptor coil still fires when you hit the flipper button then something is obviously shorted somewhere as the Raptor coil should be unable to fire without power being supplied through F5. If F5 is truly the power fuse for that coil then I would test for voltage on the lugs of that coil while F5 is removed and if power is there (it must be if it fires) I would check to see if any other coil that is powered by F5 also has voltage (the actual voltage reading may be a clue) on it and figure out what it / they are shorted to.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    I'd have to remove a diode leg to test I believe. Or can they be tested while still attached to the coil (I don't think they can).?
    Does it sound like the way I tested the transistors seem right?

    Ask 5 people you will get 5 different responses as to the wrong vs right way to do something. Heres mine. Make sure your machine is powered OFF before testing. Place the black MM lead on the banded diode leg and red on other end and you should see .4 to .6 on your MM. I personally do not cut the leads I don't see a need to do that since you are testing resistance between 2 points on either side of the diode. Again 5 people will give 5 different techniques and their way is undoubtedly the only correct way so take this for whst its worth.

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Ask 5 people you will get 5 different responses as to the wrong vs right way to do something. Heres mine. Make sure your machine is powered OFF before testing. Place the black MM lead on the banded diode leg and red on other end and you should see .4 to .6 on your MM. I personally do not cut the leads I don't see a need to do that since you are testing resistance between 2 points on either side of the diode. Again 5 people will give 5 different techniques and their way is undoubtedly the only correct way so take this for whst its worth.

    You can't test a coil diode while installed, the coil is nearly a short and is going to conduct current in either direction thereby making your test invalid. Switch diodes are another story.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    If F5 is blown, and it is the power fuse for the raptor coil (I don't have my JP anymore so I can't confirm this) but the raptor coil still fires when you hit the flipper button then something is obviously shorted somewhere as the Raptor coil should be unable to fire without power being supplied through F5. If F5 is truly the power fuse for that coil then I would test for voltage on the lugs of that coil while F5 is removed and if power is there (it must be if it fires) I would check to see if any other coil that is powered by F5 also has voltage (the actual voltage reading may be a clue) on it and figure out what it / they are shorted to.

    Yes. When F5 is blown, hitting either flipper button activates the raptor coil (and not the flippers themselves).

    Can you give me a quick description of how to test voltage on the lugs? It's been awhile.. I don't even recall what setting the put MM on.

    Also, does it sound like I tested those tip36 transisitors correctly? I listed a few posts back how I did it. I did order some new ones..

    Also, with J8 removed from PPB, flippers work fine (with F5 intact).. with no shorting to the raptor coil.

    I just wish I could figure out where to look.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    You can't test a coil diode while installed, the coil is nearly a short and is going to conduct current in either direction thereby making your test invalid. Switch diodes are another story.

    Im referring to the raptor switch not the coil. Thought the OP stated the raptor switch was reporting error.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Yes. When F5 is blown, hitting either flipper button activates the raptor coil (and not the flippers themselves).
    Can you give me a quick description of how to test voltage on the lugs? It's been awhile.. I don't even recall what setting the put MM on.
    Also, does it sound like I tested those tip36 transisitors correctly? I listed a few posts back how I did it. I did order some new ones..
    Also, with J7 removed from PPB, flippers work fine (with F5 intact).. with no shorting to the raptor coil.
    I just wish I could figure out where to look.

    Put your DMM on DC Volts, it may be a symbol with a solid line over some dots and if not auto-ranging use a range above 50. Put the black wire on ground somewhere like the ground braid that runs around the cabinet and backbox then put the red on the coil lug (either one, it doesn't matter). You've got a pretty weird problem and trying to take shortcuts isn't going to help you. I'll go back and read your transistor tests but no blown transistors alone will create the situation you have going on, you're just going to have to work through it and don't be surprised if it is more than one thing.

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Im referring to the raptor switch not the coil. Thought the OP stated the raptor switch was reporting error.

    No, the coil fires when flippers buttons are pressed.

    SOMETHING I forgot to mention that may be important: Before F5 blows, I checked really fast to see which of the 50v coils activated, and it was the Auto-Launch. What does this tell me?

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Im referring to the raptor switch not the coil. Thought the OP stated the raptor switch was reporting error.

    I figured that's what you meant which is why I said that switches are a different story, he asked about testing on the coil though. OP says that he does not see the raptor switch activate in switch tests when the flipper button is closed which is what I too expect(ed) to be happening.

    #49 2 years ago

    In switch test, all switches work fine EXCEPT when hitting the flipper buttons. The flipper button switches signal, but so does the raptor coil.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    No, the coil fires when flippers buttons are pressed.
    SOMETHING I forgot to mention that may be important: Before F5 blows, I checked really fast to see which of the 50v coils activated, and it was the Auto-Launch. What does this tell me?

    You most likely have a shorted drive transistor for that coil and that is what is blowing the fuse. You can remove a wire from one of the lugs of that coil, tape it off to ensure it does not short on anything, put a new fuse in and turn the game back on to see if anything else changes.

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