(Topic ID: 301986)

Junk yard flipper problem

By amkoepfer

2 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by amkoepfer
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#1 2 years ago

My junk yard has a flipper issue. The left flipper locks on when a game is started. Not on power up so i am not sure if it is a transistor issue. Also, my right flipper is now dead. Changed fuses, but i got nothing. Any ideas? I am not very good at wpc games

#2 2 years ago

I messed with the connectors for the flippers, now the left doesnt lock on, but they are both dead

#3 2 years ago

I'd get some help. You are losing ground on your attempts so far.

LTG : )

#4 2 years ago

Agreed. I just started looking at it. It has a rottendog driver board, but the power board looks like it has had some repair in the past

#5 2 years ago

Diving a little deeper, both flippers work in test mode

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from amkoepfer:

Diving a little deeper, both flippers work in test mode

Problem on the driver board.

LTG : )

#7 2 years ago

Thank you. I was kind of thinking the cpu, but driver makes sense too. It wouldnt be a transistor, since they arent locked on. To me it seems like fuses, since they both dead dead, but fuses are good

#8 2 years ago

Separate the CPU board from the Power board by using the tests. Use the switch test to check the cabinet opto switches. Use the solenoid (flipper) test to check the power board drive transistors.

#9 2 years ago

Looks like its the right eos switch

#10 2 years ago

Test report gave me the whole row, right eos, right cabb button, left eos, left cab button, and spinner. Then said left eos is stuck closed. The leaf switch on the flipper is good, wires are good, could it be on the cpu?

#11 2 years ago

I am guessing my u26 ic chip on the cpu is bad. That is all the eos for left right flippers

#12 2 years ago

Is there a compatable ic chip for it? I have one laying around, but i dont know anything about ic. Heres a pic of the suspect one, and the one i have laying around.

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#13 2 years ago
Quoted from amkoepfer:

Test report gave me the whole row, right eos, right cabb button, left eos, left cab button, and spinner. Then said left eos is stuck closed. The leaf switch on the flipper is good, wires are good, could it be on the cpu?

Post a picture of the switch matrix state. You can get the state from T1 (switch edges) or T2 (switch levels).

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Post a picture of the switch matrix state. You can get the state from T1 (switch edges) or T2 (switch levels).

Ok, ill try that this evening

#15 2 years ago

Hard to get a pic, it cycles through, but here is what ive got

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#16 2 years ago

Stick to T1. It doesn't cycle. I only want to see the state. Also ... don't touch any switches.

General warning to readers: do not disconnect or reconnect any connector with the power on unless you know what you are doing.

Now disconnect (pull) J208 and J212. That would the top left connector and the top right connector. Ordinarily I would always suggest turning off the power but for these connectors it is safe to pull them with the power on. If you don't feel comfortable then turn the power off before disconnecting them. You will need to re-enter the switch tests. Once you've pulled them post a picture of the switch matrix again.

#17 2 years ago

Thanks for the help. Here is before pulling j208 and j212 and after

20211012_182806 (resized).jpg20211012_182806 (resized).jpg20211012_182925 (resized).jpg20211012_182925 (resized).jpg
#18 2 years ago

Great. Your button problem is on the CPU board. There's no playfield input (you disconnected it) but the switches still register as closed.

F3 = Lower left flipper EOS (LLEOS)
F4 = Lower left flipper opto (LLFL)
F7 = Upper left flipper EOS (ULEOS)

They're actually not related. The EOS is playfield and the opto is cabinet.

01_flipper_direct_switches.jpg01_flipper_direct_switches.jpg

The schematic. You should use a logic probe to determine where the signals are breaking down. If you don't want to or are unable to use a logic probe and you want to shotgun then the problematic ICs are indicated. Don't swap them all at once. Swap them one by one to reduce potential variables of change. Note also that Williams schematics are known to have errors so you should double check the schematic to board continuity. Odds are the schematic is correct but I have seen errors in them.

02_flipper_input_schematics.jpg02_flipper_input_schematics.jpg

#19 2 years ago

Thank you so much for the help. So i was right on u25 and 26, but i missed u7

#20 2 years ago

Wouldnt u7 make the most sense because all issues tie in to that?

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from amkoepfer:

Thank you so much for the help. So i was right on u25 and 26, but i missed u7

Quoted from amkoepfer:

Wouldnt u7 make the most sense because all issues tie in to that?

This is a tough call if you're looking at shotgun replacing without doing the actual electrical investigation. I strongly suggest you do electrical investigation to reduce potential damage to the board. It's your board so you get to choose what you want to do.

  • The most logical thing is a single point of failure. This would lead to U7.
  • It is also possible that some form of high voltage short can take out multiple components and cause multiple points of failure at the initial contact with the high voltage but does not progress further upstream.

The only way to distinguish between those two possibilities is to investigate electrically.

If this were my board (and I am proceeding without doing any electrical investigation - i.e. shotgunning) I would cut out the LM399s by the legs, remove the body and then remove each leg individually. Install a socket and then replacements LM339s. See what happens. If the problem still persists then it is most likely to be U7. Again I would cut the legs and install the socket, etc.

As I said earlier ... it's your board and you know your skill and experience. It's for you to decide how you want to proceed.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

This is a tough call if you're looking at shotgun replacing without doing the actual electrical investigation. I strongly suggest you do electrical investigation to reduce potential damage to the board. It's your board so you get to choose what you want to do.

The most logical thing is a single point of failure. This would lead to U7.
It is also possible that some form of high voltage short can take out multiple components and cause multiple points of failure at the initial contact with the high voltage but does not progress further upstream.

The only way to distinguish between those two possibilities is to investigate electrically.
If this were my board (and I am proceeding without doing any electrical investigation - i.e. shotgunning) I would cut out the LM399s by the legs, remove the body and then remove each leg individually. Install a socket and then replacements LM339s. See what happens. If the problem still persists then it is most likely to be U7. Again I would cut the legs and install the socket, etc.
As I said earlier ... it's your board and you know your skill and experience. It's for you to decide how you want to proceed.

A little more investigating makes me believe this has happened before. U7 on the board is socketed, and it looks like it has been replaced at one point.

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#23 2 years ago

Swap the IC out before doing any work on the board. Always suspect prior work. I know that's sad to say but it's unfortunately more often than not correct in my experience. If the fix is easy as swapping the IC then you've saved yourself potential headaches. You can order SN74HCT244N or CD74HCT244E. The SN74HCT244N is generally cheaper.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Swap the IC out before doing any work on the board. Always suspect prior work. I know that's sad to say but it's unfortunately more often than not correct in my experience. If the fix is easy as swapping the IC then you've saved yourself potential headaches. You can order SN74HCT244N or CD74HCT244E. The SN74HCT244N is generally cheaper.

That is always my thoughts. If its been fixed in the past, that is probably the issue. I found the chip on marco, i need to make an order anywaus, so ill throw a couple on along with the other ones just in case.

Thank you so much for your help, you made it nice and easy to understand!

#26 2 years ago

Actually that may be the wrong one

1 week later
#27 2 years ago

Update. Replaced u7 and u26 (with a socket) no change. I dont see u25 being the culprit, so before i change that i am going to try my hand at logic testing

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