(Topic ID: 118851)

Jungle Queen Reset Issue

By jdoz2

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

I traded my working big brave for this non working jungle queen with an almost perfect backglass. Probably foolish, but jungle queen was a title that I really wanted. I found a few switch blades obviously messed up and made sure the ax bx relays had a good latching motion, but it's still hung up somewhere.

When the game is turned on, it resets, the ax relay and then The bx relay engage and then then resets again. Over and over. Does anyone have a clue where to start? I've visual check out all the relays but nothing seems out of the ordinary to me.

#3 9 years ago

Alright I reset everything and powered the game on. As soon as you power the game on it goes into the reset sequence. All the score reels reset so that's good I guess, but it still endlessly resets, engages ax, then bx.

Edit:
Ok I check the coin switches and one was stuck closed. My bad! I press the rest buton and the game resets. Then the game over light comes on with player one and player four lights on and the match number.

#5 9 years ago

This is what the hold relay looks like. The game over relay was toast and I replaced it already. I checked the switch on the bottom board and the backbox that you mentioned in the scuba thread so my assumption is that this relay is burnt up.

image.jpgimage.jpg

edit: I replaced the relay with a known working relay and it still doesn't energize. Would it be ok if I just soldered across those two switches that are used for slam/tilt with the weight on them?

#7 9 years ago

I jumped both swithes and nothing really improved. Sorry for th constant updates, I have a snow day today

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

No tilt switch in the path.
Now that I'm at a place where I have access to more info, here's what the circuit generally looks like:
Hold path
The Hold relay first needs to activate via the switch on the Start relay (S), and then stay active via it's own switch instead of the Start relay switch. The hold path is highlighted in yellow.
So lack of contact among any of those switches on the yellow path (or Jones plugs in that path) will prevent R from staying active.
Or, if any of the switches along the activation path have a bad connection, then R won't activate to begin with (and so won't hold either).
That means also need to check the switch on S.

HoldPath.png 25 KB

Thank you for you help. Without you, it seem like a lot of gottlieb EMs on pinside wouldn't be up and running. I will check those switched more carefully little later tonight.

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

You must have watched Bowen doing that here!
» YouTube video

That tutorial and this competition video is the reason I wanted this game. Looks so fun!

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

No tilt switch in the path.
Now that I'm at a place where I have access to more info, here's what the circuit generally looks like:
Hold path
The Hold relay first needs to activate via the switch on the Start relay (S), and then stay active via it's own switch instead of the Start relay switch. The hold path is highlighted in yellow.
So lack of contact among any of those switches on the yellow path (or Jones plugs in that path) will prevent R from staying active.
Or, if any of the switches along the activation path have a bad connection, then R won't activate to begin with (and so won't hold either).
That means also need to check the switch on S.

HoldPath.png 25 KB

I checked all the switches on the s relay and everything checks out with a meter. I dd notice that three of the switche had continuity even though they were open. Not sure if that's because one of the latch relays were opened/closed? All the anti cheat swotches check Out with a meter too.

Here are those switches just incase that does matter. On the first image the bottom switch has continuity even though it's open.
image.jpgimage.jpg

#19 9 years ago

The bottom two in this image are the same as well.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

A lot of those solder tabs look really close together. Could they be touching?

I wish. All I spread them out a little more just to be sure and no dice.

#25 9 years ago

I'm not at home right now but I can say that the s relay does engage in its own when the replay button is pressed. I'll check r when I get back

#26 9 years ago

Alright, R does pull in when the reset button is pressed but then stops after about a second

#28 9 years ago

Ill focus on the jones plug and the switch on r then. The anti cheat switches are for sure closed according to the meter. Thanks for the help!

#30 9 years ago

Checked those switches again, cleaned every jones plug and checked for a break and didn't find anything. If I manually push in the R relay the tilt relay pulls in. Is that suppose to happen?

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

The actual Tilt relay (T) or the Tilt Hold relay (H)? If the Tilt relay T, then no. If Tilt Hold relay H, then probably.
Have you got the schematic for Jungle Queen? I'm thinking that the circuit is slightly different than the similar reference I've been using. Check to see what all feeds the R relay, and compare to the snippet above for differences. Some later games also required a switch on H to be closed in order to keep R active (so it would be a switch on R, Lightbox anti-cheat, and switch on H).
So may as well also check the switches on H. If JQ has that later style logic, then H would be a good culprit too.

Looks like the schematic is different. Yes the actual T relay pulls in. I'll rotate the image and re upload it when I get to a computer.

image.jpgimage.jpg
#35 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

oh yeah, just a bit different!
The Ball Roll switch is in the hold path for R:
JQ R hold (Click image to enlarge)
so that's the difference between the similar reference I was using and JQ itself (good reminder to try and use the schematic for the actual game!).
Anyway, this is the switch on the end/bottom of the ball roll trough mounted on the left inside of the cab. Needs to be normally closed. So it could be that it's gapped open, the contacts are dirty, or the spade lugs are on the wrong tabs (which may also explain why it goes straight to Tilt also).
I happen to have a picture of one:
JQ ball roll switch (Click image to enlarge)

Perfect!! Looks like my red wire was on the inside instead of the outer tab. Everyone was still asleep this morning when I checked so I didnt want to reset the machine, but I did power the game on and R holds when manually pressed in and the T relay doesnt do anything.

I think you got it

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

That's a good sign then.

We have some progress! I think? The game resets, the just as it's about to kick the ball out all the playfield lights go out and the switches don't score. The ball endlessly kicks to the shooterlane without advancing the ball cout.

#40 9 years ago

You're right, it looks like h I the path for all that. I can manually hold that relay in while the ball is kicked out and the flippers, lights, and switches work. The wierd thing is that the actual tilt relay pulls in too. Only when the make/break switch on H changes state does the tilt relay engage andeverything work.

#41 9 years ago

Cleaned and lubed the rivets on the player unit. Doesn't even orientation of the arm matter really, or will it always find home?

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

You'll need to check the schematic and see what activates H, but I think it's held active until there's a Tilt. So if tilt is also activating, then it could be as simple as there being a real tilt condition (i.e. one of the tilt switches is closed). Could still be at that ball roll tilt (there are two switches in that stack).
The Player Unit wiper arm needs to be in an exact orientation/position for it to work correctly.

I checked all the tilt switches and they are all closed. They show normally closed on the schematic. I'm not sure what else to check that would cause a tilt.

#44 9 years ago

got it! Now I need to focus on the player unit and this coin unit isn't incrementing like it should. It's nice to flip the ball around though

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Tilt switches should all be normally open. Anti-cheat switches should all be normally closed.
But sounds like you found whatever the culprit was. Good!

I got my tilt and anti-cheats mixed up. I went and found all the red/yellow wired ones and opened them. I just assumed all switches with the bounce weight were anti-cheat, but the one under the playfield was actually a tilt switch.

Im going to have to go out into the garage and see what the right position is for the arm on the player unit by taking a look at my vulcan project. Im pretty sure it resets just fine.

I cleaned the shoulder bolt on the coin unit and its still not resetting right even though that is moving freely.

Thank you for all the help!

6 months later
#47 8 years ago

So.... I moved and was able to leave my games at my old house until I got married. I just set up jungle queen and it's totally dead. A few lights on the back box come on but that's it. All the fuses checked out, but the coils don't seem to be getting any power. Score motor won't return home when I manually move it either.

Any idea where I should be looking?

#49 8 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Check that all Jones Plugs are fully seated in the backbox and on the bottom board. Maybe even remove and reinsert to clean off possible corrosion.
Many times one plug is accidentally left disconnected in the backbox.

I'll try cleaning them, but it looks like all are connected.

#51 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Some quick checks for signs of life:
- Try the left coin chute switch
- Try the right coin chute switch
- Try the Start relay directly
- Try the AX relay directly
- make sure the bounce and anti-cheat switches are closed (coin door, bottom board)
- make sure the fuses are completely snug in the fuse holders, no wiggle room

The 25v fuse had some wiggle in it, so I put a jumper wire across just to see and the game is working like before. I have time to work on this one now, so I may post some more questions after I give a few things a look. Thanks again!

1 week later
#53 8 years ago

So I don't have any lights anymore. If I take a meter the the playfield and back box lights, they are getting about 3.6v, but they are not on. Any ideas?

#55 8 years ago

Yeah everything is out. Coin lights and everything.

#57 8 years ago

The game is totally playable, but no lights anywhere. I did just notice that some of the back box lights BARELY flicker when it's being played. Almost like vibration is causing it

#59 8 years ago

I'll try that again, but I tried my little jumper wire thing again and nothing. I took the playfield out to get better access to the coin unit, then put the playfield back in and it did this business.

#61 8 years ago

I found out what it was. There were two tabs barely touching on the last call relay and after I separated them the laughs last came back.

So the game resets, but doesn't kick out a ball. If I manually push the ball in the shooter lane and then try and move to the next ball, it never moves to the next ball.

2 weeks later
#63 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

The Ball Return kicker is activated via a switch closing on the O relay. Is the O relay activating? If you manually activate O, does it lock on, run the score motor, and fire the Ball Return solenoid?
This had been recently working, right?

Sorry it's been so long, I picked up a sky jump and that has been my focus, but I'm back on jungle queen now. O does not lock on unless I manually activate it. It then kicks the ball out just fine. I had schematics for this but the stupid dog peed on them... I was. It happy one bit.

#65 8 years ago

No, not at all. The ball count doesn't change either

#66 8 years ago

I just looked at the coin unit and when those two switches are closed, O energizes. The balls don't advance though. When the switch that the ball rolls over to get to the shooter lane is rolled over, the score motor turns and then p relay energizes.

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