This happens right when the game is turned on? Or when the replay button is pressed?

If you manually reset all the score reels to 0, unlatch all the interlock relays (e.g., AX, BX, etc.), manually reset any relay banks, reset the Coin Unit, put a credit on the credit unit, and then just power on the game, what does it do? (Should only have Tilt lit in the backbox).

Then if you press the replay button on the coin door, what does it do? Does the score motor keep running?

See if the R (Hold) relay is staying active. Additional info here on what to check:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-help-fixing-a-1970-gottlieb-scuba-never-stops-saying-game-over-1#post-2194099

Rather than soldering, would be better to first determine where the open in the path is that is preventing the Hold relay from activating/stay active.

Could just be dirty contacts on the switches. The Lightbox switch is a common culprit for having a bad contact from sitting.

A temporary alligator-clip jumper wire can be used to ensure switches are closed, to further isolate which one is at fault.

It could also be in the Jones plug connection(s) involved in the path.

Better to isolate the root cause first.

And you're sure the Hold coil is good (and the correct one)?

Can also use a meter from the coil to the switches, jones plugs, etc. to test and see where continuity is lost, but can also jumper farther with the alligator clips too until it works. Then the last thing skipped over is where the open resides.

Is there a tilt circuit switch in that hold path? I think I've had that problem before. Power to the hold relay must be checked at each switch on its path.

No tilt switch in the path.

Now that I'm at a place where I have access to more info, here's what the circuit generally looks like:

Hold path

The Hold relay first needs to activate via the switch on the Start relay (S), and then stay active via it's own switch instead of the Start relay switch. The hold path is highlighted in yellow.

So lack of contact among any of those switches on the yellow path (or Jones plugs in that path) will prevent R from staying active.

Or, if any of the switches along the activation path have a bad connection, then R won't activate to begin with (and so won't hold either).

That means also need to check the switch on S.

I think I meant those two tilt switches labeled bounce switch and anti-cheat. (aren't those part of the tilt circuit?)

Nope. These are called/considered "anti-cheat" switches instead of "tilt" switches. They feed the Start and the Hold relays. Mess with these, and the Hold relay releases, rendering the game to a logical 'off' state (power is still present, but requires a whole new game to be started). In a multi-player game, all games are lost as a result.

The anti-cheat switches are all normally closed, so the path to the Start and Hold can complete based on the other switches in the paths instead (e.g. coin chute switch).

In contrast, the three Tilt switches are all normally open (tilt bob, ball roll, and one underneath the playfield). These three switches are in parallel, so that if any one of them closes, then the actual Tilt relay activates. The penalty is then just the ball in play, and a multi-player game can continue. "Tilting" is then considered the penalty for nudging too hard, so you get a wrist slap; "Game Over" is considered the penalty for "cheating" (being too rough on the game by slamming it or bouncing it), and you lose it all.

There is sometimes an adjustment plug where the penalty for tilt can be set to the whole game or the ball in play (I think on the later single-players, circa '77).

I hope you get it working. I am ready to kill some monkeys!

You must have watched Bowen doing that here!

I used to own a JPrincess, lot more fun than I had imagined. You'll get it running correctly, you've got Dirtflipper in your corner!

DF can explain this better than I, but you have circuits that have both open and closed switches, so it's likely that's the case here. The meter reads thru the back loop. During operation, the score motor and other relays may isolate that switch so it can do its job.

A lot of those solder tabs look really close together. Could they be touching?

Darn, I was hoping to be your hero.

So if you activate S, then does R activate? That would at least indicate whether R is able to energize at all or not. That also helps isolate whether the problem is with energizing it, or holding it energized (two separate paths).

Also, if you press the replay button, or drop a coin it, does the S relay activate on its own? As shown in the schematic snippet above, it shares part of the same path to activate as R uses. So if S activates, then that indicates (and eliminates) the common part of the path.

So first need to know whether R energizes at all or not.

Excellent. So then that narrows it down to one of:

- the Lightbox anti-cheat switch (this is located in the backbox, and I think is sitting on the right side, underneath the long bracket of relays or near it). Needs to be closed.

- the switch on R itself. When R activates, this switch needs to close.

- the path from the backbox through the jones plug back to the score motor board. Could be on the male side of the plug, the female side, or an open on a wire along that path.

The Lightbox anti-cheat switch is often the culprit, due to dirty contacts and/or contacts not being closed. But a corroded Jones plug can also do it.

Can't always go by the meter if there's a "back path" available to also complete the circuit.

The actual Tilt relay (T) or the Tilt Hold relay (H)? If the Tilt relay T, then no. If Tilt Hold relay H, then probably.

Have you got the schematic for Jungle Queen? I'm thinking that the circuit is slightly different than the similar reference I've been using. Check to see what all feeds the R relay, and compare to the snippet above for differences. Some later games also required a switch on H to be closed in order to keep R active (so it would be a switch on R, Lightbox anti-cheat, and switch on H).

So may as well also check the switches on H. If JQ has that later style logic, then H would be a good culprit too.

oh yeah, just a bit different!

The Ball Roll switch is in the hold path for R:

JQ R hold

so that's the difference between the similar reference I was using and JQ itself (good reminder to try and use the schematic for the actual game!).

Anyway, this is the switch on the end/bottom of the ball roll trough mounted on the left inside of the cab. Needs to be normally closed. So it could be that it's gapped open, the contacts are dirty, or the spade lugs are on the wrong tabs (which may also explain why it goes straight to Tilt also).

I happen to have a picture of one:
JQ ball roll switch

or of course if the tilt ball is jammed up on the switch end, that would be an issue too.

We know what you are doing on your lunch break today

That's a good sign then.

Sounds like more than one issue.

Look on the schematic on the far left side and see what switch is there that activates the playfield lights (usually it's H, which is the Tilt Hold relay, but see what the JQ schematic says). Then see if that relay is activated and staying activated.

The ball count function is part of the Player Unit, and so that needs to step to reach Player 1 Ball 1. When the ball travels over the ball trough switch, it should activate the Add Player Unit relay (P), which should then cause the Player Unit to advance (but there are several other switches in that path too, so you'll want to also check the schematic for that).

You'll need to check the schematic and see what activates H, but I think it's held active until there's a Tilt. So if tilt is also activating, then it could be as simple as there being a real tilt condition (i.e. one of the tilt switches is closed). Could still be at that ball roll tilt (there are two switches in that stack).

The Player Unit wiper arm needs to be in an exact orientation/position for it to work correctly.

Tilt switches should all be normally open. Anti-cheat switches should all be normally closed.

But sounds like you found whatever the culprit was. Good!

Check that all Jones Plugs are fully seated in the backbox and on the bottom board. Maybe even remove and reinsert to clean off possible corrosion.

Many times one plug is accidentally left disconnected in the backbox.

Some quick checks for signs of life:

- Try the left coin chute switch
- Try the right coin chute switch
- Try the Start relay directly
- Try the AX relay directly
- make sure the bounce and anti-cheat switches are closed (coin door, bottom board)
- make sure the fuses are completely snug in the fuse holders, no wiggle room