You aren't giving us much information to work with. I would suspect the bonus unit - perhaps the max position switch is too close / closed so it thinks you've already maxed bonus and won't add more?

Also Check any relay that has anything to do with add bonus or anything like that.

Have you cleaned your stepper units? That's a pretty common issue...gummed up. Alcohol, fine sand rivets, alcohol, tiny bit of superlube on the now shiny rivets, make sure the rivets are lined up throughout making good contact etc

Sounds like it could be a player unit issue - that's the big cam stepper unit in the back of the head. You need to inspect, clean and adjust switches there. Pretty big job for a newbie and you could really screw it up too - I'd bring in some help.

The player unit isn't really a stepper issue - the stepper probably works fine if it's cycling balls.

it's the switches within the unit that are moved stack by stack by the camshaft that I would suspect.

I usually suspect the player unit switches when a game consistently misbehaves on one player/ball.

Great video, thanks for posting. This is an unusual problem and a schematic would probably be a big help for this one. If it were me, I would trace the SUBTRACT BONUS UNIT coil circuit. I would be looking for some kind of cross-circuit fault. The most common source of these types of faults include:

- A three-bladed stand-up or drop-target switch has two of the blades touching all the time.
- A make-break switch on a relay has all three contacts touching all the time.
- The solder lugs of a relay switch stack or stepper unit are bent over, and lugs from different circuits are touching.
- A solder splash from an earlier repair has landed on a switch stack and is bridging switch blades of different circuits.

NOTE: The bonus unit subtract coil will always go quiet at zero because there is a cut-off switch on the unit at the zero position.

I suspect that the subtract problem may always be present after the first ball. You can check this by running up some bonus on the bonus unit by hand on the second ball, and then turning the score motor by hand counter-clockwise a few degrees until the run-out circuit catches and the motor runs by itself to the next home position. You may find that when you do this, the bonus unit subtracts as the motor runs, even though there are no scoring or other circuits active anywhere on the game.

If this is what happens, it can be helpful to you because then you can check your trouble-shooting on the fly. If you find what seems to be the problem, you can make an adjustment, run up a couple of bonus, nudge the score motor, and see if the bonus unit subtracts as the motor runs. As soon as the bonus unit stops subtracting, you've found the problem.

Since the problem starts with the 2nd ball, you may also want to look for any relays that trip or pull in when the player unit advances to the second ball. Also, as CrazyLevi suggested, check for the cross-connections on the switches of the player unit itself. And, check for switches on the score motor that are supposed to be open but are always closed.

- TimMe

Dave, I should have also mentioned that, if the subtract bonus is always active starting with the second ball, it could be that the SUBTRACT BONUS UNIT circuit is just getting locked on (activated) at that point. This may be a simpler issue than the cross-connection problem that I described in post #12.

So if you find that the subtract bonus is always active, you may want to start by looking at all of the bonus control relays that control the SUBTRACT BONUS UNIT circuit, and see if there are any switches on those relays that are closed all the time.

- Tim

I can post partials of the schematic if you need any. I don't have any assistance though in solving your dilema.

-=Fred=-

First ball relay should energize (be grounded to fire) by a switch on the 10 or 100 point relay in backbox. You may have a switch misadjusted causing constant ground.

A valuable tip: anytime you have ANY coil locked on other than the coin lockout, hold or feature alternating coil (on bottom of playfield-controls alternating states of pops and features) turn the machine off and do not let it stay in the locked on state. It will melt a coil or worst burn wires before it pops a fuse (because some coils are made to stay energized). The coil will melt down to a shorted state (if it does not start a fire) and then pop the fuse.

I watched your video and have a question. I do not hear any stepping of players unit, chimes or score reels. Is the machine playable, I mean cycling thru the players and balls, scoring on all switches (other than the bonus issue). Game may play well but does it play correctly.

Dave, I just watched your second video and what I am seeing is that your bonus subtract circuit is always engaged after the first ball. One other suggestion to confirm this - on the second ball, you are adding a bunch of bonus manually and then hitting a 500 pt PF switch to run the score motor. Instead of hitting a playfield switch, try turning the cam of the score motor counter-clockwise a bit with your hand until the motor catches and runs to the next home position under its own power. I am betting you will find that the bonus subtract coil operates when the motor runs, even without hitting any playfield switches.

If you locate the bonus subtract coil on the schematic and trace the wiring back from there, you will see what switches control the power to the subtract coil. Carefully check these switches to see if there is a short, or a switch that is supposed to open but is staying closed.

Sorry I don't have a schematic to your game, so I can't offer any more specific advice than that.

- TimMe

Thanks Dave. That sounds to me like the reset bonus circuit (the one for the start of a new game) is being activated during the game. I suggest you check the switches on the AX relay. Make sure the switches on this relay are adjusted properly, and that the switch contacts are opening when they should. Also be sure that there are no shorts at the switch blades or the switch solder lugs. It's a good idea to tighten down the switch stack screws before making adjustments to the switch blades.

- TimMe

Dave, what I'm thinking is that the reset circuit for the bonus may be downstream from the player unit cam 5 (P5) switch that opens to stop the reset of the player unit once the player unit hits ball 1 player 1. If my speculation is correct, that P5 switch opening would disable the bonus reset during the first ball. When the game advances to ball 2, that P5 switch would close again and that would allow the bonus reset to be enabled. If another enabling switch for the bonus reset (most likely on the AX relay) were making contact all the time, then you would get the symptoms you are seeing.

- TimMe

Dave,

Did you ever get this resolved. I am having identical issue on my Jungle Queen unit.