Ugh!

Every time I move a machine it creates a problem for me... Safe answer, don't move it!

Anyway, moved, setup machine, powers on, hit credit button, game resets, but doesn't kick ball to plunger lane and backglass still says "Game Over".

Not sure what to check and my knowledge is limited. Hopefully this is a simple switch stuck and I can tweak to fix. Ideas?

At my father-in-law's house setting this up so time is limited. Ugh!

Thanks Dirt,
I'm looking over that thread but admit that much of it is over my head.

I'm making some notes but I'm hoping I triggered a common issue and if anyone can provide:
- Sounds like this switch is stuck, it's located about here, check that one
- If that doesn't work, check this one...

Kind of simplistic yes, but it WAS working fine, I didn't jostle it too badly in transit, and it is lighting up and resetting (reset sounds longer than normal, but does eventually stop), but shows Game over. Flippers and scoring is dead, though you can trip the extra ball or tilt it. I'm thinking it's a simple tweak to right again, I'm just not sure what that tweak is.

Again, no actual work was performed on the machine, the backbox was removed, moved from point A to B, and then reconnected.

I'm heading back there Friday most likely and hope to have a list of things in hand to test/try.

Ideas? Thanks.

Thanks Dirt,
Based on that I'm looking at the start-up sequence listed at pinrepair and see what you're talking about:

1975-1978 Gottlieb Start-Up Sequence.
Multi-player games with Ax/Bx relays.

Inserting a coin or pressing the coin door start button (Gottlieb calls this the "replay" button) activates the "S" (start) relay. The start relay will lock on from its own switch and a score motor switch.
The "S" relay will start the score motor running.
The "S" relay and the score motor increment the total play meter.
On a 4 player game, the coin unit (next to the chime box) will decrement four times to the home (zero) position, and then kick up one position (to the 1 player position). Note if players 1 & 4 are lit on the backglass, the coin unit is not stepping up from the zero to one player position.
The "S" relay energizes the Ax relay through the Bx (Last Ball) relay (sometimes), but always thru a switch on the "S" relay, "U" relay, and score motor switch at 2C. This should energize the Ax relay.
The "R" hold relay pulls in and stays in, this turns off power to the Game Over relay (which stays energized when a game is finished).
*On a 4-player game, the Player Unit in the backbox increments until it reaches the Z1 position. The Player Unit stops and the Z1 relay in the backbox energizes. The score motor resets the player 1&2 score reels through the Z1 relay. When all eight score reels are at "zero", the Z1 relay de-energizes and a normally closed switch on Z1 (very top switch, looks un-natural) allows the player control unit to increment to the Z2 position.
*On a 4-player game, the Player Unit stops and the Z2 relay in the backbox energizes. The score motor resets the player 3&4 score reels through the Z2 relay. When all eight score reels are at "zero", the Z2 relay de-energizes and a normally closed switch on Z2 (very top switch, looks un-natural) allows the player control unit to increment to the "home" position (this is the "player 1, ball 1" position). (On a 4-player game there is a player unit switch stack for each player. This controls which set of score reels will score in the game.)
*On a 2-player game there are no Z1 and Z2 relays. Instead the player unit uses two switch stacks (which would be the player3 and player4 stacks) and the score motor to reset all the score reels, instead of the Z1/Z2 relays and the score motor.
Player unit is now at the "home" position ("player 1, ball 1" position). This is the P5A and P5B switches on the player unit, which is the switch stack closest to the backglass with only 2 switches. This causes the Ax relay to reset and the bonus unit to reset (if the game has a bonus unit). Often the P5A and P5B switches are dirty/mis-adjusted which will not let the score motor stop running.
If the ball is in the outhole, the "O" relay activates kicking the ball to the shooter lane. Note: the "O" relay will not activate unless the bonus unit (if the game has one) is reset to zero (there is a bonus unit zero position switch).
The ball passes over a trough switch as it is kicked from the outhole, which de-energized the "first ball" relay. Now the game will score. If this switch is closed after the "first ball" relay is de-energized, it will advance the player unit.

This is for the 2-Player game, so I can ignore the 4-Player info. The Player unit is in the backbox, but based on the pics in the above thread it looks like the hold relay in the base of the Cab? Can anyone post a picture of what I want to be looking at and what I should/should not do to it?

Thanks for your help on this. I pulled my Father-in-Law's Post Time to get some repairs but setup my Jungle Princess for him to play while it is out for service. This 80+ year old man was so sad when I couldn't get it to start-up, I need to get this working for him asap, he gets so bored now that he can't drive to the track!

Hi all,
Back at the house and working the issue.

I've found the Game over relay (as well as all the other relays, haven't messed with those before, very interesting). I think I've confirmed that this is the issue. The Game over relay appears to be stuck on, if I physically pull it back out, the Game Over light goes out, and flippers work. When I let go it locks back on and can't play.

As I mess with the other relays, I can push them to make them do what they're supposed to, and they let go on their own. Game over relay is locked in.

I'll start searching the site, but I appear to have identified the issue. Now, how to fix?

Finally figured out what you mean when you keep referring to these letters...

Game over relay (Q) appears to be locked on
1st Ball relay (U) appears to be locked on
Hold relay (R) does not appear to be doing anything

Also the 1st ball relay (U) is buzzing pretty loudly, I can nudge a little to quiet it down but definitely buzzing and seems to be working harder than it should. Game over relay (Q) I think also buzzing, but 1st ball definitely buzzing louder.

Hitting the other relays I can make stuff happen, including go on or off tilt, but messing with Hold relay doesn't appear to anything.

Thanks Dirt,
Upon hitting the Start button the hold relay does appear to pull and then let go,
As does the start relay and the replay button relay.

Trying to upload a video to link to so you can see/hear what it's doing.

Here is video of what's happening, hopefully helpful:

If I hit Replay Button Relay (V) I can get the 2 locked relays to unlock, the game over goes off, and ball 1 lights up. If I play ball score and chimes and flippers work, but upon drain game over pops back on and controls/scoring go dead.

I fixed it?

After scanning through other threads and seeing your comments Dirt, it looks like Tilt bobs are often a culprit here. I couldn't get the one in the backbox (think it's a tilt) to have any effect, so moved to the one on the coin door.

At a glance it looks like it should be more against the door than what it is. Messed with this a bit, found if I held the weight to the door, the contact was closed (I think) and game would start and be playable. But if I let it back out (opened it?) it would game over. Messed around to get it more to where I think it should be, and game is playable.

Not sure if a permanent fix or if what I did actually impacted, but game working and Father-in-law working to knock down some monkeys!

Appreciate help, hopefully this thread is closed, and I learned much about relays in process!

Bah,
Spoke to soon, game starts, sometimes lets you play through, sometimes Game over on ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, etc...

Maybe I can disable switch entirely to see if that helps?

Does this look right or wrong?image.jpg

Testing...

image.jpg

Don't think I said above,
thanks for the help today Dirt!!

Finally got around to moving this pin back to my place and setup Post Time back at my Father-in-Laws.

Princess now giving me same problem in my house, have to stop moving this machine!!