(Topic ID: 173310)

Jungle not resetting


By pinballman3

2 years ago



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  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by pinballman3
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Jungle_ZB (resized).JPG
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#1 2 years ago

Hello all, I have a 1972 gottlieb jungle 4 player pinball machine. The problem i am having is if you turn it on it is on player 4 ball 5 and it just stays there. Everything works fine as far as the scoring and playfield and all. It just scores on 4th player and the 5th ball is never ending. If i manually trip the game over relay and then hit the start a game button. The game will pull in the start relay the score motor will turn and it will decrement the credits by 1. That is all it does. I dont have a schematic for it. The start up sequence says the secondary start up relay is activated by a score motor switch. So i would think maybe the culprit of the start up sequence not continuing would be the score motor switch. I have no idea what switch it would be. Do you think i am on the right track? Also any idea what motor switch it would be?

#2 2 years ago

You'll need to find out why the score motor does not keep running to complete the reset process. The first step is to check the primary switches that send power to the score motor. I don't have a Jungle schematic, so I'm looking at a Big Brave schematic which is similar. Check the following relays and their switches.

D, E, O, Q, S, U, W, AX, BX. The switches related to the score motor "might" have a red/white wire and slate/red wire. Maybe someone on PinSide has part of a Jungle schematic they could share...

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

it is on player 4 ball 5 and it just stays there.

Clean the player unit stepper. You can manually actuate the coil to advance it and see if it moves as it should. That would be my first guess.

Check this out:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-efficiently-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-em

#4 2 years ago

Thanks for the replies. This game was like this when i first acquired it. I did clean the start coil and check gaps on it already. I have manually actuated the player unit. It moves like it should. I can go through and set it on any player at any ball manually but that is where it will stay. I will clean it probably monday. If that don't work i guess i will order the schematics. I have manually manipulated the game to game over. When i go to start a game with what gottlieb calls the replay button. The start up sequence does in order like it is suppose to the point with the start relay pulled in the score motor should trigger the secondary start relay. The score motor does not trigger the secondary start relay. Here is first part of start up sequence. It happens through number 4. Number 5 does not happen. That is why i was thinking the first problem that needs to be fixed is a switch on score motor. Then go from there once i have it where it will do a complete start up sequence. I was think getting start up sequence working might fix the rest. was hoping someone might know what switch on the motor i need to look at. Oh yeah this is a 72 model. The ax/bx relay did not come into play until 75 from what i have read. I will look at it a little more monday and if not resolved quickly i will order schematics.

I HAVE MANUALLY PUT THE GAME IN GAME OVER BEFORE I TRY THIS
1.Inserting a coin or pressing the coin door start button (Gottlieb calls this the "replay" button) activates the "S" (start) relay. The start relay will lock on from its own switch and a score motor switch.
2. The "S" relay will energize the main hold relay to illuminate the game (if this is the first game after power-on).
3. The "S" relay will start the score motor running.
4. The "S" relay and the score motor increment the total play meter.
5. The "SB" relay (the secondary start relay) is activated through the score motor. The "SB" relay energizes the reset relays ("Z1" and "Z2"). If a single or two player game, there may be only a "Z" relay.

#5 2 years ago

In the attached schematic snippet, you will see the SB1 relay (Reset Control Relay), the score motor switches you need to look at are on 'Motor 3B'. (Wire Colours - Orange Green / Blue White ). I trust this will help !

Capture (resized).JPG

#6 2 years ago

Looking at your snippet. I think the problem might actually be in the ZB relay. The way i read it is the 3B motor switch would have to be closed to let you start a 2 player game. Mine will let me. If i manually put the game in game over i can then push the replay button. It will try to start 1 player game. When it quits i can hit the replay button and it will change and light up 2 player game then 3 then 4. It looks like a ZB switch would need to close also for the SB1 relay to activate. Am i reading this correctly? Thanks

#7 2 years ago

Also the ZB relay is part of advancing the player unit from what the start up sequence says. Which mine does not advance. I will know tomorrow. I will report back.

1 week later
#8 2 years ago

Ok i am back at this. I have the manual and schematics now. I still have not been able to figure it out. The 3B motor switch that oldpins said had orange and green / blue white. I jumped across these two wires and it is still not activating the SB1 relay. Can anyone tell me what state all of the relays on the reset bank should be in at game over. Ready to hit the replay button to start a new game. It seems like it should be simple. Pulling my hair out. Dont have much left to pull out.

#9 2 years ago

I cleaned the PU one more time with light sandpaper and alchohol. I now have the game where if i step the PU to player 4 ball 5. Then i manually trip the game over coil trip the first ball relay an trip the last ball relay. If i push the replay button everything resets as it should. The problem is when i score points is the ZB relay (first ball relay) suppose to trip so the PU will advance after first ball drains. My ZB relay does not trip when i score points. Does anyone know what would cause the ZB relay to not trip when you score points? Thanks

#10 2 years ago

You'd have to find the ZB relay coil on the schematic and then trace back towards the switches to see which switches send power to the ZB coil. You can test the ZB coil with a 9-volt battery to see if it's working. But, it sounds like there's also an issue with the player unit that isn't advancing properly... To simplify the troubleshooting, what is happening now when you try to start the machine? You power on the machine, machine is in game over mode or tilt mode, one or more credits are on the credit unit, you push the start button, then what happens? Do all the score reels reset? Also, does the player unit advance easily when you manually push and release the advance solenoid plunger?

#11 2 years ago

Thanks, Yes if i put everything on the reset bank like it should be at game over. That being ZB relay, game over relay and last ball relay tripped and then hit the start button everything resets like it should all score reals go to 0. bonus unit goes to 0. It Goes to 1 player. player 1 ball 1 (it will go to 2,3,4 player if i hit start button more. It kicks the ball out and the game plays perfect except it does not trip the ZB relay when i score so it can advance to ball 2 when the ball drains. If i manually trip the ZB relay and then drain the ball it will advance to 2nd ball then next time to 3 then 4 then 5. The thing is also the last ball relay does not trip and when the 5th ball drains the motor just starts turning and does not quit until i pull the ball off of the switch. The player unit advances very smoothly when i push the coil plunger. I think the player unit is fine. If i can just figure out why the ZB (first ball relay) and last ball relay and game over relay are not tripping.

#12 2 years ago

First ball relay will be tripped by a switch on one of the point relays in head. This is accomplished by first score of ball one. This is what lets the player unit advance. If you ever notice on a game of this era if you do not score on ball 1 the ball does not advance. Some games the switch is on the 10 point relay, some games the 100 point relay. Check those switches first.
Last ball relay is tripped by the players unit in head. Since it is as multiplayer switches on the 2, 3, and four player are involved as well as score motor switches. Its best to get a schematic and trace the path to check the switches used.

#13 2 years ago

You'll need to see what sends power to the ZB relay coil. Again, I'm working off a 1973 Big Brave schematic, but it should be similar. There are five relays switches that send power the the ZB coil: tilt hold relay, 10 point relay, 100 point relay, hold relay and 1st ball relay (ZB). You can check these five relays to see if all the switches are clean and adjusted properly.

Look on your schematic and find the ZB relay coil. Follow the line to the right and you'll see the switches that send power to the ZB coil. You'll see the wire colors for the switches also so you can zero in on each individual switch that is related to the ZB coil...

#14 2 years ago

Check the ZB normally closed switches highlighted in schematics below. Ensure there is enough tension in the blades to make good contact.

Jungle_ZB (resized).JPG

#15 2 years ago

I will be back on the machine in the morning. I will check all of the suggestions out. I wonder if the problem of the ZB relay, last ball relay and game over relay could all be related to the same problem?

1 week later
#16 2 years ago

I found 2 bad coils. The first ball coil and the game over coil where bad. All other coils on the reset bank pulled in when doing the 9 volt battery test. I have them on order. When they come in i will get them installed and see where i am. Thanks for the help so far.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from fredsmythson:

You can test the ZB coil with a 9-volt battery

How do you check a coil with a 9 volt battery

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from Raff:

How do you check a coil with a 9 volt battery

Turn game off. You hook your 2 jumper wires to the 9 volt battery. Then hook the jumper from the positive side to the wire that runs across all coils in reset bank. Then you touch the other terminal of the coil one at a time with the other jumper wire. If the coil is good it will pull plate in enough to trip coil.

#19 2 years ago

Good to know that thanks.

1 week later
#20 2 years ago

I got the coils in today and got them put in. Everything works 100% now. Thanks for all the help. I am going to mark this as resolved.

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