St. Marys, PA
I'm sooo happy that some ppl are finally seeing what I saw in the game way back when nobody thought anything of it. Yet everybody I talked to liked the game, but somehow that didn't raise the value of it even though its a WMS/BLY superpin with DCS sound & always with good ratings (even though most ppl giving ratings over the years probably didn't even have the deadworld mod). Something didn't add up to me, but the game immediately went on my radar as I was new to the hobby & on a budget.
When I played JD at PAPA, I knew I wanted it to be my next game & the one I played didn't even have the deadworld mod, & I was very fortunate that somebody had an HUO JD for sale in my area just a couple weeks later, this is going on 5 years ago now.
I've got people interested in the game, & I want new blood since I can only have 4 in my collection, but I give the same response. Which is that it will take a great deal to get it out of my hands until I'm ready to part with the game. I still have more I want to accomplish on the game, especially now that I have everything about it tweaked to perfection. But, I guess it is for sale/trade, but it has to be a healthy offer.
Let me explain why people feel they can ask more. Because this is such a great home use game, & there aren't an endless amount of them. Now that word has spread a bit more about the game, & also about what the deadworld mod adds, you have to figure that anybody not in the market for high end pricey pins has their eye on this one.
Was this the best game on location back in the day? Nope, it sure wasn't. Is it the perfect game for pinheads at home? Yes, damn near it.
I've played $3k or even $5k games that weren't as interesting or fun as JD, so in my book even $2400 is a fair price when you see how much a game like IJ goes for. Why pay so much more for a game that isn't much better? & btw I love IJ, for the record. Now that is a game I'd put my JD toward a trade for.
At least if somebody does overpay for a JD, rest assured knowing they are getting a great game that can outplay most newer Stern pins that you'll pay much more for.
I'm not saying here what the price should be, only standing up for a game that I know is better than most, regardless of where you want to price it. I understand that a few maybe can't get into it. Hey, I've met a lot of people that can't even get into TAF.
JD is a tough game. If you prefer or are used to games that are a little easier (which compared to JD is maybe every other game!), then you might have a tough time getting into this. But even there you can lower the slope & adjust outlane post, or even make sure those flipper start angles are where they should be. All that helps.
When I have non pinheads playing my games, JD frustrates the most. & I completely understand that. But this same reason is exactly why I love the game! I always say that JD was a game I got purely for myself. & for example EBD was a game I got for myself but also knowing others would be able to easily get into it. People like JD, but it just beats them down a bit! But doesn't that actually go perfectly with the theme? Dredd himself is one unforgiving badass dude. Coincidence?
Aside from difficulty, have I even said what I think makes the game great? Well first of all, you can't beat BLY/WMS, & I think the widebody Superpins were PERFECT for pinball, just the right amount of extra width but not so much that it slows the play (like old Bally widebodies). If they weren't more expensive to produce & tougher to transport, who knows maybe it could of become the standard? So right off the bat you are getting more PF & parts & shots than most games. Its a beast of a game.
I mean, arguably the best 2 games ever were from that small run of 7 superpin's (TZ & STTNG), only Popeye is considered sub-par, but people are even turning around on that one these days.
So JD has a great bloodline & some impressive brothers!
But... the game still needs to stand on its own merits, & I believe it does. 1 thing that I think has kept the price down was the theme (theme only). Nobody, including myself, really knew anything about JD. Add to that, IJ came out at the same time as JD, & here in the states you just can't get a better theme than that!
It actually helped me out a bit to see the new Dredd movie, it was fun to play JD after watching that & picking up on a couple of details that before I didn't "get".
But hey, I never saw the "Fathom" movie either, or the "EBD" movie, or the "MM" movie, & so on. So IMHO the theme still works just fine, the layout definitely matches the theme, as well as any game can.
I swear, if Harrison Ford starred in 3 hit JD movies in the 80's, this post would be about how JD should be a $4k game instead of $5.5k! Maybe more than that even.
The ART. Still blows me away to this day. But I could always pay $5k for a game with photoshop on it, couldn't I? Another reason why I can see people paying more $ to make sure the acquire this game. Even after all these years I still pick up on small details in the art that I hadn't properly noticed before. They even put art in areas that the average player never would of seen on location! They went above & beyond. No weak spots either in the art. PF, cab, & translite all good. & as a bonus there is even a nice gold eagle topper!
The LAYOUT, SHOTS. To me the most impressive part of the game, & why I wanted it. It has a little of everything. A number of standups, a subway, a 5 drop bank, a kickback that has manual & auto modes, 4 ramps (4 RAMPS!), 4 flippers, stacked wireforms that can divert 3 different ways (very cool), 2 challenging loop shots, 3 captive balls in a chain that is endlessly fun to mash, & last but not least the centerpiece of the game, the deadworld mod itself which at this point should be mandatory on JD's. JD's upper right quarter is the best quarter PF in all of pinball, IMHO. Some brilliant design on this upper PF in general. & despite all this stuff, there is still more exposed PF (somehow) than most games, to display the great art.
The RULES. Do all these many shots & targets mean anything? After all there are games out there with many shots, but relatively meaningless shots. Not here though. The game makes sure that you'll have to make use of all its shots & features. Somebody earlier I think said the game lacks flow or "kinetics". No, that just isn't true at all if you are a decent enough player. & yes, even I have times where I brick enough shots that the game starts looking for the ball! But like any good game, when you are "on" & playing well, the game rewards you with plenty of great flow.
A previous poster mentioned hitting 4 loop shots then the air raid ramp. That is impressive, btw, & a great example of the flow the game can offer. Once you get decent at not bricking the 2 main ramp shots, the rest of the game can flow pretty well from there. On JD there are some crazy long combo's you can hit. Left ramp to left orbit to top right loop to blackout ramp to large loop to air raid, for example! That is extremely difficult, but there are other flowy combo's that are more doable.
Also, the game doesn't have any bumpers, so that keeps things moving. & when the game does stop play for a second, its at an acceptable time. I'm never annoyed by a JD stoppage.
SOUND. Nothing wrong here either. JD has DCS sound, which not even TZ has. This adds some richness to the soundtrack & guitar riffs. Music is good in the background & it isn't something annoying that gets shoved down your throat. Plenty of different sound bytes & tracks get played throughout to help keep things fresh.
EVERYTHING ELSE and closing thoughts. How about the light show on the game? Another thing that I think is underrated about it. The crime level inserts can change to 4 different colors, & there is purpose in them doing so & it really adds a layer to the game with the 4 different crime levels that can be tracked in this way.
There are many other lamp inserts that all look good, different shapes & great use of different colors.
Flashers are great on the game. Police flashers are very useful on the game & it helps make it very clear when you need to shoot for the ramps (2x flashers on each makes it crazy bright). That can be a big help, especially for those less familiar with the game. Same deal with the lower left flasher. Deadworld flasher always looks cool as it fires off with the thunder sounds!
Of course the deadworld mod is perhaps the best mod you can do on any game in pinball history, in terms of what it adds to the game. It takes the centerpiece of the game & reverts it to how it was originally designed. Sure as hell beats virtual locks & just makes the game that much more fun to look at. Having your locked balls floating around on a disc above your game... that is pretty damn awesome!
You got the fire buttons on each side, used to launch the ball from each plunger, but also you can use them to select your next mode. So if you have trouble with a certain mode, just skip it! Plenty of others to choose from. & some of these modes are just great. My fav is always the meltdown with the captive balls. Blackout is always fun when everything goes dark, & this post is already too long for me to go into all the modes. This is just another great part of the game. You can choose to focus on getting multiball, or you can work on building the chain or advancing crime levels.
Anybody who gets this game really should read the full rules in the manual. As I mentioned, it isn't the best game to just pick up & play if you are unfamiliar with it. & rule cards on the apron are nowhere near big enough to display everything you would want to know. Sure you can just shoot for whatever the game tells you or whatever is lit, & have success, but its still good to know the objectives & how to achieve them.
Lastly, SUPERGAME! How many games have an alternate game built into it? JD does! Another thing that makes it great for home use. If you tire of normal play & need a pick me up, or are a fan of multiball, then you go with Supergame. It starts you off with multiball & features 4 new modes that you can't get with normal play, & some other things that switch up as well. & the 100 million point shot is in this mode.
If anybody who read all this still thinks anything above $1400 is too much for a nice JD, then I've lost all hope for you! Doesn't even matter what you think of the game personally. I wouldn't even pay $4k for a nice TAF, but that doesn't mean that price wouldn't be a bargain. Again I can't say what JD should sell for, & let's also keep in mind that whether the game has the DW mod & eagle topper can affect price a bit too. But if somebody buys a JD for $2400, I'm certainly not gonna tell them they were ripped off when there would still be 3 other similar Superpin games that can sell for 3x that price. Maybe it is the people buying those games that are getting ripped off? Not the buyer of a JD.
I obviously think enough of the game that I can write short novels like this defending it. JD owners can even try out the whole P-Roc thing, which I failed to mention. When I bought my JD, yes it was cheap enough that I felt like I was stealing from the guy. Although he was like other people of that time, just resigned to the fact that for some reason the game wasn't valued too highly. I took advantage of this, I knew I would like it, & I knew it would be a good investment as well, as there was no way in hell the game would drop in value whenever I decided to sell.
I figured it was just a matter of time before other people caught wind of what JD was all about like I did, when it was the best bang for your buck in all of pinball. Win win! JD is one of the best pinball machines of all time, & I've played most solid state games ever made, & all of the great ones.
I can think games I'd bump out of the top 20 all time to make room for JD. CFTBL is one. & I know I'm not alone in thinking this. JD is #27 on IPDB despite many older ratings based on the game played on location & without the DW mod. So I really don't think saying it is top 15 or 20 is far fetched. & look at the prices of some of those top 20 games compared to JD! I also think as Stern rolls out more & more photoshopped art, the demand just keeps growing for games with art like JD. As well it should.
