O-din, I was the guy who pm'd you about selling you rother dredd earlier this week. Any chance you want to sell me the one you just bought?

It needs some work. Deadworlds dead. I was thinking of you. I'll let you know when its up and running! Are you tired of T2 yet?

T2 is players quality. I'm starting my restore of the Getaway. After that, I need to shop the t2 playfield. No raised inserts but it has some lines from the ball that hopefully will come out. Got it last July, still play it 3 or 4 times a week. Shoot me a pm when you are ready to move the Judge

remember- Rome wasn't built in a day.

worth what you can sell it for i guess

Or what you'll buy it for, condition can vary so much on any pin!

If more people want to buy something, then the price goes up. It's fairly simple.

Ill sell mine, just outside of hartford ct. 1500. Check hartford c list. Its listed for 1800

Stang are you willing to ship? Sending you a pm.

Every time I see this thread title back at the top I have to chuckle. Just the smug definitiveness of the statement, while knowing that 180 posts later the Dredd owners were grinding their teeth somewhere in there!

Dredd is a cool machine, but a kinetic disaster. People look at it, see the amount of neat little tucked-away shots, the uniquness of the playfield and get all excited that they've found a low-priced gem, undiscovered and underground. Nope. The sweet shot from the right flipper is the right ramp post. CLUNK! The idea is good, the theme is actually pretty cool, but the shots are simply not refined. While it'll always be a neat machine to spice up a collection, it's not one you'll be spending hours playing, daily, six months after you've bought it. No chance.

Yes, Judge Dredd is a $1400 game, folks. But.... not a bad way to spend $1400 *if* you have a large collection.

Wish you were closer is an inside joke for a game being overpriced.

Oh also WTB Judge Dredd in KC for $1400 let me know what youve got pm me thanks.

Every time I see this thread title back at the top I have to chuckle. Just the smug definitiveness of the statement, while knowing that 180 posts later the Dredd owners were grinding their teeth somewhere in there!
Dredd is a cool machine, but a kinetic disaster. People look at it, see the amount of neat little tucked-away shots, the uniquness of the playfield and get all excited that they've found a low-priced gem, undiscovered and underground. Nope. The sweet shot from the right flipper is the right ramp post. CLUNK! The idea is good, the theme is actually pretty cool, but the shots are simply not refined. While it'll always be a neat machine to spice up a collection, it's not one you'll be spending hours playing, daily, six months after you've bought it. No chance.
Yes, Judge Dredd is a $1400 game, folks. But.... not a bad way to spend $1400 *if* you have a large collection.

Kinetic disaster, if you can't make the shots...

JDHS.jpg

Perhaps you just need to aim better?

I owned a Dredd for over a year and beat the game into oblivion and back several times. I actually scored almost a billion in the APE tourney finals last year on it LOL. I know the machine very well, worry not.

Because I can adjust to and make the shots does not make them necessarily 'feel good' or be the intuitive, smooth shots which immerse you in a game. There's a big difference. Which is why, all these years later, it's usually a transient machine in collections, and earned as much turned on or off in the field.

It was a $500 game for a long time, all through the late 90's, so now that it's a $1400 one should be cause for celebration!

Well thats a whole other can of worms, if you guys own a game that you are not selling obviously it would take a higheer amount to get it from you but that by no means sets the price structure of a game.

Whats wrong with this picture?

DSCN1002.JPG

there's whiskey left in the bottle

not any more

It would appear that the original poster is looking to buy a Judge Dredd, and started this thread hoping to convince people his flawed opinion is correct, or to find someone that will sell him a JD at the price point he wants.

JD like most WPC games has risen in price over the last couple of years, but some people are stuck in 2010 and have trouble accepting today's prices.

Per Boston Pinball the average selling price for a JD was $1,941 in 2012.

Here's my conclusion. You want a nice Dredd that needs no attention, looks nice, and will keep your friends coming back for more, be prepared to cough up $3200+. You want one that looks good but needs shopped out, deadworld mod, LEDs, maybe a new ramp, you'll spend $2000+. If you only want to spend $1200 or so, you can put it in the garage and look at it or tear it apart like I did today!

I know, I've got all three, but I spent more than $1200 for the third one.

I'm gonna go play the nice one now!

Yep - spot on answer - just picked up mine (HUO with eagle topper) for 2100, since then I have bought LEDs from Germany, DW Mod, ALL targets Mylar decal set, Phoog glass, new balls/rubber, new GI backbox light connectors, 3M Venetian DMD glare eliminator, new ball shooter armature,
trough plastic protector, couple extra plastic parts for motor assembles just in case, and I think that's it. So I will have well over 2600 into it.

Bought my JD this summer for $1500 in good shape and I love it, absolutely worth it to me (no topper or mods). I could see myself paying 2k+ for a nicely shopped one if I didn't already have one.

All that crap sitting on the fireball

th-5.jpeg

All I know is that ANYONE selling a clean working JD for $1400 today just left a lot of money on the table.

We have a winner!
Time to get crackin. After spending half the day yesterday pulling weeds, I finally got some help unloading the $1600 Dredd. I hadn't actually played it, because it was in the back of the guys truck with legs off in an alley behind his house. But it did boot and I could tell Deadworld was in need of attention, so the guy knocked another $50 off. I'd like to think not buying it was an option, but we know how that goes, plus his CL add had already caused servers to crash and phone lines to overload. Anyway, I fired it up and it started launching balls- two or three at a time with no effort from me. Slingshots were not working, and Deadworld motor was humming away, but nothing was turning. I figured all the other stuff was incidental, so I went right to the heart of the matter and tore into the Deadworld gearbox (if thats not working you might as well drop this pin somewhere between here and Catalina). As with most of these, a gear was spinning on its shaft so I sweat soldered it in place and used some old wheel bearing grease from way back that I still happen to have a can of (that nice thick stuff you can't get anymore) and reassembled it. Thats where I am now, so hopefully by kickoff my planet will be turnin, and I can start worrying about the other stuff!

there is a guy who does something similar with LOTR. every time LOTR pricing comes up in a thread he jumps on with "examples" of LOTR that sold for $4200 or less. he never has a paper trail and what is most ironic is the number one game on his wish list. yup! you guessed it. LOTR. these people (op here included) would be better off just saying "I have $1600 on the table for a JD and that offer is standing for anyone who wants to sell!" at least then we wouldn't have to suffer thru the painfully transparent subterfuge.

I suck at monster bash. Does that mean I should only pay 3k for it

Judge dredd has some of the best kinetics in pinball. It just doesn't come super easily. When I have friends over and they see me make a four loop combo ending in an air raid with a successful finish. It is quite impressive. While they are hitting the center posts and being denied all day.

It's not the car son... It's the driver

JD is a fantastic game! artwork, flow, rules everything. No idea why this game sells cheap, but I dont see that happening for long its a 2.5k game in my book. Seriously this game has some of the best playfield art! and the skill shot is so fun

OK, it was fun before..

Now you are just being an ignorant donkey.

I couldn't agree more...I have a JD, JM and DM....I knew I had to snag them because when I played them I knew these games are not 1500 games anymore (at least not in this market).

I need to correct the above post of mine. AFTER I called him out on artificially deflating the value of LOTR while having LOTR as the number one game on the wish list he quickly removed LOTR from his wish list. apparently LOTR is no longer the number one game on his wish list. I'll let the pinside community decide if that story is believable. I on the other hand own LOTR, have never hidden the fact that I own it and regularly acknowledge that I own it when commenting on price! in point if fact I readily acknowledge any offers that I have had and when said offers were made. be prepared for a rebuttal from the guy who cannot let a disagreement go whether it be pride or something else...

I just rebuilt the lower flippers on my JD after owning it for two months. Made all the difference in the world. I enjoyed it beforehand but now it's a new machine entirely and it flows incredibly well, the shots all feel GREAT. I think it's important to play an example with properly aligned and rebuilt flippers so that it plays exactly like the designer intended.

The only kinetic issue in my opinion is the upper right mini flipper shot to the Sniper Tower. The bottleneck-shaped entry could have been better. I brick most attempts at the Sniper Tower with that mini flipper. Haven't rebuilt it though, maybe that could help.

And why would you be hitting the right ramp post with the right flipper? You can't backhand the Stake Out ramp if the flippers are set up correctly. A backhand to the Black Out ramp is a great shot from the right flipper, and my preferred method. The gap between that post and the 'E' standup is pretty large. It's no worse a shot than the left loop in Demolition Man or the putting green in NGG.

I'm sooo happy that some ppl are finally seeing what I saw in the game way back when nobody thought anything of it. Yet everybody I talked to liked the game, but somehow that didn't raise the value of it even though its a WMS/BLY superpin with DCS sound & always with good ratings (even though most ppl giving ratings over the years probably didn't even have the deadworld mod). Something didn't add up to me, but the game immediately went on my radar as I was new to the hobby & on a budget.

When I played JD at PAPA, I knew I wanted it to be my next game & the one I played didn't even have the deadworld mod, & I was very fortunate that somebody had an HUO JD for sale in my area just a couple weeks later, this is going on 5 years ago now.
I've got people interested in the game, & I want new blood since I can only have 4 in my collection, but I give the same response. Which is that it will take a great deal to get it out of my hands until I'm ready to part with the game. I still have more I want to accomplish on the game, especially now that I have everything about it tweaked to perfection. But, I guess it is for sale/trade, but it has to be a healthy offer.

Let me explain why people feel they can ask more. Because this is such a great home use game, & there aren't an endless amount of them. Now that word has spread a bit more about the game, & also about what the deadworld mod adds, you have to figure that anybody not in the market for high end pricey pins has their eye on this one.
Was this the best game on location back in the day? Nope, it sure wasn't. Is it the perfect game for pinheads at home? Yes, damn near it.

I've played $3k or even $5k games that weren't as interesting or fun as JD, so in my book even $2400 is a fair price when you see how much a game like IJ goes for. Why pay so much more for a game that isn't much better? & btw I love IJ, for the record. Now that is a game I'd put my JD toward a trade for.
At least if somebody does overpay for a JD, rest assured knowing they are getting a great game that can outplay most newer Stern pins that you'll pay much more for.

I'm not saying here what the price should be, only standing up for a game that I know is better than most, regardless of where you want to price it. I understand that a few maybe can't get into it. Hey, I've met a lot of people that can't even get into TAF.
JD is a tough game. If you prefer or are used to games that are a little easier (which compared to JD is maybe every other game!), then you might have a tough time getting into this. But even there you can lower the slope & adjust outlane post, or even make sure those flipper start angles are where they should be. All that helps.

When I have non pinheads playing my games, JD frustrates the most. & I completely understand that. But this same reason is exactly why I love the game! I always say that JD was a game I got purely for myself. & for example EBD was a game I got for myself but also knowing others would be able to easily get into it. People like JD, but it just beats them down a bit! But doesn't that actually go perfectly with the theme? Dredd himself is one unforgiving badass dude. Coincidence?

Aside from difficulty, have I even said what I think makes the game great? Well first of all, you can't beat BLY/WMS, & I think the widebody Superpins were PERFECT for pinball, just the right amount of extra width but not so much that it slows the play (like old Bally widebodies). If they weren't more expensive to produce & tougher to transport, who knows maybe it could of become the standard? So right off the bat you are getting more PF & parts & shots than most games. Its a beast of a game.
I mean, arguably the best 2 games ever were from that small run of 7 superpin's (TZ & STTNG), only Popeye is considered sub-par, but people are even turning around on that one these days.
So JD has a great bloodline & some impressive brothers!

But... the game still needs to stand on its own merits, & I believe it does. 1 thing that I think has kept the price down was the theme (theme only). Nobody, including myself, really knew anything about JD. Add to that, IJ came out at the same time as JD, & here in the states you just can't get a better theme than that!
It actually helped me out a bit to see the new Dredd movie, it was fun to play JD after watching that & picking up on a couple of details that before I didn't "get".
But hey, I never saw the "Fathom" movie either, or the "EBD" movie, or the "MM" movie, & so on. So IMHO the theme still works just fine, the layout definitely matches the theme, as well as any game can.
I swear, if Harrison Ford starred in 3 hit JD movies in the 80's, this post would be about how JD should be a $4k game instead of $5.5k! Maybe more than that even.

The ART. Still blows me away to this day. But I could always pay $5k for a game with photoshop on it, couldn't I? Another reason why I can see people paying more $ to make sure the acquire this game. Even after all these years I still pick up on small details in the art that I hadn't properly noticed before. They even put art in areas that the average player never would of seen on location! They went above & beyond. No weak spots either in the art. PF, cab, & translite all good. & as a bonus there is even a nice gold eagle topper!

The LAYOUT, SHOTS. To me the most impressive part of the game, & why I wanted it. It has a little of everything. A number of standups, a subway, a 5 drop bank, a kickback that has manual & auto modes, 4 ramps (4 RAMPS!), 4 flippers, stacked wireforms that can divert 3 different ways (very cool), 2 challenging loop shots, 3 captive balls in a chain that is endlessly fun to mash, & last but not least the centerpiece of the game, the deadworld mod itself which at this point should be mandatory on JD's. JD's upper right quarter is the best quarter PF in all of pinball, IMHO. Some brilliant design on this upper PF in general. & despite all this stuff, there is still more exposed PF (somehow) than most games, to display the great art.

The RULES. Do all these many shots & targets mean anything? After all there are games out there with many shots, but relatively meaningless shots. Not here though. The game makes sure that you'll have to make use of all its shots & features. Somebody earlier I think said the game lacks flow or "kinetics". No, that just isn't true at all if you are a decent enough player. & yes, even I have times where I brick enough shots that the game starts looking for the ball! But like any good game, when you are "on" & playing well, the game rewards you with plenty of great flow.

A previous poster mentioned hitting 4 loop shots then the air raid ramp. That is impressive, btw, & a great example of the flow the game can offer. Once you get decent at not bricking the 2 main ramp shots, the rest of the game can flow pretty well from there. On JD there are some crazy long combo's you can hit. Left ramp to left orbit to top right loop to blackout ramp to large loop to air raid, for example! That is extremely difficult, but there are other flowy combo's that are more doable.
Also, the game doesn't have any bumpers, so that keeps things moving. & when the game does stop play for a second, its at an acceptable time. I'm never annoyed by a JD stoppage.

SOUND. Nothing wrong here either. JD has DCS sound, which not even TZ has. This adds some richness to the soundtrack & guitar riffs. Music is good in the background & it isn't something annoying that gets shoved down your throat. Plenty of different sound bytes & tracks get played throughout to help keep things fresh.

EVERYTHING ELSE and closing thoughts. How about the light show on the game? Another thing that I think is underrated about it. The crime level inserts can change to 4 different colors, & there is purpose in them doing so & it really adds a layer to the game with the 4 different crime levels that can be tracked in this way.
There are many other lamp inserts that all look good, different shapes & great use of different colors.

Flashers are great on the game. Police flashers are very useful on the game & it helps make it very clear when you need to shoot for the ramps (2x flashers on each makes it crazy bright). That can be a big help, especially for those less familiar with the game. Same deal with the lower left flasher. Deadworld flasher always looks cool as it fires off with the thunder sounds!

Of course the deadworld mod is perhaps the best mod you can do on any game in pinball history, in terms of what it adds to the game. It takes the centerpiece of the game & reverts it to how it was originally designed. Sure as hell beats virtual locks & just makes the game that much more fun to look at. Having your locked balls floating around on a disc above your game... that is pretty damn awesome!

You got the fire buttons on each side, used to launch the ball from each plunger, but also you can use them to select your next mode. So if you have trouble with a certain mode, just skip it! Plenty of others to choose from. & some of these modes are just great. My fav is always the meltdown with the captive balls. Blackout is always fun when everything goes dark, & this post is already too long for me to go into all the modes. This is just another great part of the game. You can choose to focus on getting multiball, or you can work on building the chain or advancing crime levels.

Anybody who gets this game really should read the full rules in the manual. As I mentioned, it isn't the best game to just pick up & play if you are unfamiliar with it. & rule cards on the apron are nowhere near big enough to display everything you would want to know. Sure you can just shoot for whatever the game tells you or whatever is lit, & have success, but its still good to know the objectives & how to achieve them.

Lastly, SUPERGAME! How many games have an alternate game built into it? JD does! Another thing that makes it great for home use. If you tire of normal play & need a pick me up, or are a fan of multiball, then you go with Supergame. It starts you off with multiball & features 4 new modes that you can't get with normal play, & some other things that switch up as well. & the 100 million point shot is in this mode.

If anybody who read all this still thinks anything above $1400 is too much for a nice JD, then I've lost all hope for you! Doesn't even matter what you think of the game personally. I wouldn't even pay $4k for a nice TAF, but that doesn't mean that price wouldn't be a bargain. Again I can't say what JD should sell for, & let's also keep in mind that whether the game has the DW mod & eagle topper can affect price a bit too. But if somebody buys a JD for $2400, I'm certainly not gonna tell them they were ripped off when there would still be 3 other similar Superpin games that can sell for 3x that price. Maybe it is the people buying those games that are getting ripped off? Not the buyer of a JD.

I obviously think enough of the game that I can write short novels like this defending it. JD owners can even try out the whole P-Roc thing, which I failed to mention. When I bought my JD, yes it was cheap enough that I felt like I was stealing from the guy. Although he was like other people of that time, just resigned to the fact that for some reason the game wasn't valued too highly. I took advantage of this, I knew I would like it, & I knew it would be a good investment as well, as there was no way in hell the game would drop in value whenever I decided to sell.

I figured it was just a matter of time before other people caught wind of what JD was all about like I did, when it was the best bang for your buck in all of pinball. Win win! JD is one of the best pinball machines of all time, & I've played most solid state games ever made, & all of the great ones.

I can think games I'd bump out of the top 20 all time to make room for JD. CFTBL is one. & I know I'm not alone in thinking this. JD is #27 on IPDB despite many older ratings based on the game played on location & without the DW mod. So I really don't think saying it is top 15 or 20 is far fetched. & look at the prices of some of those top 20 games compared to JD! I also think as Stern rolls out more & more photoshopped art, the demand just keeps growing for games with art like JD. As well it should.

Good write up robx!

I think the whole package is really strong. IMO the comic art is among the best of any 90s-era pinball machine! It's not like other licensed themes that had to comically represent a live-action film. The comic art is the same calibre as the Judge Dredd comic source material.

The voice over, sound effects and music is of the same quality. I really like the creative way that many sound effects are generated with an electric guitar. The TILT sound is second to none: a long distorted pick slide up a guitar neck! It's also hilarious.

I agree with the comments that the game feels a bit unfinished though. I'd be great if someone could update the code one day to make even better use of the crime scene colours and offer more loop combo awards.

ROBX46 - WOW - what a write up - very well done.

Nice post Robx, it was a good read.

Whether anyone desires this game or that one the market typically determines price points.Of course the debut of Ebay and the creative massaging of the sellers somehow determined the market.

+1

Trudeau did an awesome job in the design and Kevin O'Connor's art is fantastic. Under-rated game that I bolted across the border for. Thanks again, Gerry!

I paid $2,400 for my JD, shipped from Texas. While the playfield has some negligible wear, it was 100% working, shopped, and cleaned. Never felt better about a purchase. Now with LEDs throughout, it is the king of my mancave. I love every shot in this game!

I posted this on a thread re: JD topper... I thought I would post it here too for some discussion;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I own a JD and honestly don't know the difference between original and repo topper.

My topper is an hard foam type, plus there is a small wire harness, in the back, that is not connected. It appears to be eye lights? I'm not sure.

Any clarification on the 2 (type of topper and lighted eyes?)

Thanks Kerry

I would like to know as well...mine is different yet as it is sparkly, almost glitter-like. It looks pretty cool, but I haven't seen another like it.

My understanding is that the original topper is brittle moulded plastic painted with a matt gold. Apparently the original topper design was metallic gold but the design was changed to save costs. Illinois Pinball reproductions use the original mould and the original intended metallic gold paint.

Your foam-based one with lit eyes sounds like a modded 3rd-party repro to me.

EDIT: Btw, my topper is the flat, matte gold. No wires, no sparkly stuff! END EDIT

Yeah I guess some things could be refined a bit, though I think that can be said of almost any non top 10 game. I think you need to be careful about wanting to change or add too much, since there is already enough going on with the game to where some people struggle keeping up. I guess some advanced combo awards couldn't hurt though.

However, JD has always been a game that people wanted to tweak rules on. Probably not because the rules are bad, but because there are a lot of possibilities with this massive layout. Read up on the P-Roc system, which was designed using JD as its prototype. If you want updated code, that is how you do it. It has been done already.
As for a more official update. Well, Star Wars just got an update after 20 years, so who knows! Doubt it though.

so are we all agreed that this is a $1500 game now.

LOL

I don't think you know Mechslave and what he can do to a pin.