(Topic ID: 238375)

Judge Dredd Switch Column Issue

By nerdygrrl

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by nerdygrrl
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#1 5 years ago

Some folks have suggested this is presenting like a diode problem. While I agree, I am concerned that is it something else because continuity on the wire line is dropped between test points. If I test the column wire at the connectors between say switch 14 and 18, I do not have continuity. Would a bad diode cause this? Also this is happening on multiple columns.

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OK with the Deadworld Mod question answered I started to dig into this a bit more. As I noted Switches 15-18 in column 1 are out. Since I have half a column, I am guessing I have a broken connector somewhere. When I test continuity on the line, I am pulling off the the connector and sticking my probe inside.

Switches 11-14 have continuity amongst themselves as well as the two PCB's non the inside of the cab on the left hand side. Switches 15-18 (the problematic switches), have continuity amongst themselves as well. The two groups (working and non working) however do not have continuity between them. Since, I am pulling the connectors off where/when I can and testing the actual connector, I am guessing the only way this drop in connection is possible is if I have a cut wire? Is there anything else I am missing?
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I posted in the Dredd club and also wanted to post here. After many years of trying to snag a Dredd, I finally managed to snag one. I bought it non working and the fellow I got it from isn't much of a tech guy and couldn't offer any real help on the issues that it had other than "that's how I got it".

The main problem was the trough. The trough emitter was bad and caused the coil to lock on and burn out Q50. I swapped out Q50, and installed a repro trough PCB and that fixed that problem. I can turn on the game and "play" a game.

On power up I am getting some switch errors which I think are related to the Deadworld mod (L1AT). I read that some of the switches were very picky with the mod, but I couldn't find a list of which ones.

I was also having problems with my slings and tried to run a coil test. When I attempted to do so, it appeared the test was disabled. Not one coil would fire-even though many are operational during game play.

Can anyone confirm the lack of coil test and if switches 15-18 (L outlane, L shootlane, L Return and drops) are mod related?

#2 5 years ago

Need to close the door when doing coil test.
And line switches have nothing to do with the world mod.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from wdennie:

Need to close the door when doing coil test.
And line switches have nothing to do with the world mod.

Many thanks! I don't know how I spaced on the coin door.

OK with the Deadworld Mod question answered I started to dig into this a bit more. As I noted Switches 15-18 in column 1 are out. Since I have half a column, I am guessing I have a broken connector somewhere. When I test continuity on the line, I am pulling off the the connector and sticking my probe inside.

Switches 11-14 have continuity amongst themselves as well as the two PCB's non the inside of the cab on the left hand side. Switches 15-18 (the problematic switches), have continuity amongst themselves as well. The two groups (working and non working) however do not have continuity between them. Since, I am pulling the connectors off where/when I can and testing the actual connector, I am guessing the only way this drop in connection is possible is if I have a cut wire? Is there anything else I am missing? Is there anykind of molex or other PCB connector in the line that could be to blame?

#4 5 years ago

It seems to be that the line ends with left shoot lane and right fire button. So I am guessing the signal is being lost between whatever is last on the working side and the three bank of targets. In theory if I run a new wire from 3 banks to the last switch on the working end I should regain my switches.

It looks like this game has had other switch issues in the past. The owner before last made two jumpers on switches on columns 2 and 3, running a new lead from switch to line. I may contact the person I bought this from and try and track down who he got it from to get some more info as to what is happening. It's not how I would have tied them in, but they are working.

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#5 5 years ago

I just jumpered my three bank to my tilt and got the remainder of my column one switches back. Now onto switches 51-54. None of this makes much sense. It's like the signal is just dropping from half of the columns and I can't find where the break is. It doesn't look like the past owner could either. It seems so odd to have so may columns that need to be jumpered. I can't imagine every single column line was cut in half somewhere.

#6 5 years ago

A Wednesday hail Mary bump. I am pretty stumped to me this is presenting as a break in my switch lines. Some folks have suggested this is presenting like a diode problem. While I agree, I am concerned that is it something else because continuity on the wire line is dropped between test points. If I test the column wire at the connectors between say switch 14 and 18, I do not have continuity. Would a bad diode cause this? Also this is happening on multiple columns.

#7 5 years ago

Would not be a bad diode. The column signal shouldn't ever be forced to go through a diode to get to other switches on the column.

Switch 14 is the plumb bob tilt, which is in the cabinet. Switches 15, 16, 17, 18 are all on the playfield. So first, what are your 'test points' between switches 14 and 18? I would - for now, completely ignore the cabinet switches, since they (should) have their own plug directly into the MPU. (i.e. There is no *wire* connecting the cabinet switches from the playfield switches.)

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Would not be a bad diode. The column signal shouldn't ever be forced to go through a diode to get to other switches on the column.
Switch 14 is the plumb bob tilt, which is in the cabinet. Switches 15, 16, 17, 18 are all on the playfield. So first, what are your 'test points' between switches 14 and 18? I would - for now, completely ignore the cabinet switches, since they (should) have their own plug directly into the MPU. (i.e. There is no *wire* connecting the cabinet switches from the playfield switches.)

OK, I just saw that they were in the same column. The column I am having issues with was column one. The cab switches in that column (11-14) were working 100% and have continuity down the line

Switches 15-18 were out and not registering. They too have continuity amognst themselves, but not with the cabinet switches on the same line.

If I jumpered the the three bank target to the plumb bob my entire line comes back up.

I hope to get out of work shortly and dig into this more thoroughly.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

OK, I just saw that they were in the same column. The column I am having issues with was column one. The cab switches in that column (11-14) were working 100% and have continuity down the line
Switches 15-18 were out and not registering. They too have continuity amognst themselves, but not with the cabinet switches on the same line.
If I jumpered the the three bank target to the plumb bob my entire line comes back up.
I hope to get out of work shortly and dig into this more thoroughly.

Ah, okay then!

Likely the column wire has come out of the plug on the MPU. Or has intermittent connection, Or battery corrosion on the pin, preventing connection. You SHOULD get continuity between one on the playfield and one on the cabinet. (The signal for the testing would travel up the column wire to the playfield plug, through the MPU board, and then out the plug to the cabinet.)

#10 5 years ago

Post a photo of the CPU board and concentrate on the lower portion of the board.

#11 5 years ago

Thanks guys, I will go and check this out now. It's clear this game has had switch issues as previous owner had jumpered a switch each in clolums 2 and 3 (I have since removed these) and after I got column one up and working via jumper column 5 had four down switches as well (IIRC 51-55). Something is amiss somewhere.

I know there is a Rottendog CPU in there, and I believe that was installed because of this issue (I need to get more info from previous owner).

#12 5 years ago

Keep us updated! Curious to see what it turns out to be!

#13 5 years ago

Thanks so much for the help guys. It's very much appreciated. I didn't get very far last night, I am hoping to focus more time on it today. I need to reattach the diodes that I pulled for testing (all of which had been fine). Once I do that I will do a continuity check on all of the columns. Below is the CPU, nothing looks amiss. After I make sure there is nothing super wonky with the wiring I'll either jumper this to test or install the CPU from my Demo Man. I was just leery to do a board swap if something on my machine took out the Rottendog. I'd hate t be down two machines.

I also enclosed a pic of the Matrix. The previous owner clearly had switch issues. IIRC he had jumpered switch 25 and 32 to get those columns back up and running.

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#14 5 years ago

I'm curious about the black wires coming out of the row plug (J206, J209), though that may be a trick of the positioning of the camera. The cabinet switch plug (J212, that has both Green & White) has been replaced, as has been the switch row plug. The column plug has not, and I'm gonna guess that your column #1 wire (position 1 on the plug) has just stopped making a good connection in the header.

OR, there is battery corrosion on the pin.

I would disconnect that plug (the one with all green wires) and look at the front of it, where you can see the metal pins. (The side that is upward facing when the connector is plugged in to the MPU) and look at the color/reflection of the metal pins. Make sure none are foggy, cloudy, or green. They should all look shiny, mirrored, stainless.

If they all look good, I would look into replacing the IDC connector header there with one like the other two plugs have. (In a bind, you can try to re-punch down Col 1 into the header, see if that helps.)

#15 5 years ago

Update: I replaced all of the diodes I removed to test, fired it up and I was still having problems, reseated everything on CPU and still had issues, swapped the CPU with the one from DM and voila, I have switch lines. That being said the left sling locks on when activated and when it does that my trough just starts firing off balls (original issue). The sling is not locking up at power up, but I'll replace its drive transistor as well as the one for the trough and verify nothing is grounding out underneath..

I decided to install the JD CPU in my DM to rule that in or out and after many unsuccessful attempts of trying to seat the ribbons cables (what a god damn terrible location for those. I mean who thought it would be a good idea to put the most difficult cables to install next to the door so you can't see or have clear access) the game powered up and seems to be operating just fine in DM. I only noted one out switch and it was one that was replaced during my shop job so I need to re-verify the wiring.

I guess it would make sense to swap the CPU's back and see if the trouble re-emerges on JD. That would be the right thing to do, but I really hate those ribbon cables and my shoulders and neck are not in a place to do that today. Maybe tomorrow or sat so we have closure. So I guess no real clarity for now.

That black wire was a splice to the yellow and white. No idea what happened there.

Many thanks for al of the input. I really appreciate it.

1 week later
#16 5 years ago

I still haven't swapped the CPU's back, but I did sort out the rest on Dredd. The locked on sling was a result of some lighted post lamps the owner before last had installed. A few wires had broken off and were grounding out the left sling. I re-soldered and hot glued them in place and Dredd is now fully functioning.

If I have time this weekend I may swap out the CPU's as I am curious. I also plan on ordering the new Dead World ROM. Many thanks for all of the help and input guys.

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