(Topic ID: 23993)

Judge Dredd and P-Roc advice

By Andyj965

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by sven
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 11 years ago

Hi All,

I'm fixing up a JD project pin and was wanting to get some feedback on the P-Roc with the custom software for JD from people that have played it. From what i have read the P-Roc replaces the CPU board and DMD controller, both of which i still have to buy so i thought it might be worthwhile setting up.

I've read a bit about it but there doesn't seem to be too much user feedback i've found about the JD software.

Does it make a big improvement to the game?

Is anyone aware of any issues with the P-Roc?

Thanks,

Andy

#2 11 years ago

Just an FYI, you need a computer as well. Nothing spectacular in terms of specs but it will need to be either placed somewhere in the cabinet/backbox or next to the pin (outside) and you can run a USB cable to the P-ROC.

#3 11 years ago

Thanks for that. I have plenty of PCs sitting around doing nothing so it will put one to good use. Would probably just grab an SS drive as well.

Cheers

#4 11 years ago

use the rasberryPi (or something like that) pc ,its so small and is only like $50

#5 11 years ago

I briefly played a P-Roc JD and I was very disappointed. No where near the same 'energy' compared to JD's music/sound and dots. Boring. I vaguely recall thinking the music that was used seemed inappropriate.

The idea behind P-Roc is awesome but I'm guessing it's not very easy to program and implement. Still waiting to hear more from Dutch Pinball's BoP.

#6 11 years ago

You could buy a p-roc and use a pc to play the original software with PinMame and the new software as well. You'll need a better pc than a Raspberry Pi though, for that won't be able to run PinMame.
About the new software: it's nice, but I'd like to play the original one as well. Gerry and others moved on to new projects, so the JD software probably won't get developped any further (unless others move on with it, though I doubt that).
Dutch Pinball BoP: I think it'll get finished, though it takes time. All guys working on that project do so in their spare time next to their jobs and 'normal life'.

#7 11 years ago

How does the proc platform integrate with pinmame outputs? This is pretty neat.

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from OTTOgd:

I briefly played a P-Roc JD and I was very disappointed. No where near the same 'energy' compared to JD's music/sound and dots. Boring. I vaguely recall thinking the music that was used seemed inappropriate.
The idea behind P-Roc is awesome but I'm guessing it's not very easy to program and implement. Still waiting to hear more from Dutch Pinball's BoP.

I didn't realise it wouldn't use the sound roms. Thought it would pull the audio from there.Thanks for that.

Quoted from sven:

You could buy a p-roc and use a pc to play the original software with PinMame and the new software as well. You'll need a better pc than a Raspberry Pi though, for that won't be able to run PinMame.
About the new software: it's nice, but I'd like to play the original one as well. Gerry and others moved on to new projects, so the JD software probably won't get developped any further (unless others move on with it, though I doubt that).
Dutch Pinball BoP: I think it'll get finished, though it takes time. All guys working on that project do so in their spare time next to their jobs and 'normal life'.

Could be interesting having the ability to play both versions. Will definitely look into this. Cheers

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from Andyj965:

I didn't realise it wouldn't use the sound roms. Thought it would pull the audio from there.Thanks for that.

Let it be known I have not looked into P-Roc aside from watching some seminar footage but what little I understand is that it is a blank slate start and programming is very complicated.

What would be great is if the programming process was replaced by a WYSIWYG front-end for those us that are not competent code monkeys. Then I'm sure there would be a LOT more action on the P-Roc system.

The potential is huge and exciting ... but it's too difficult for most, I guess.

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#10 11 years ago

Let me just chime in here as a customer. I have a P-ROC running on my Demolition Man, and the opportunities that the P-ROC presents are far from limited. The fact of the matter is that P-ROC and its associated software kits are frameworks. This is probably the best model that I can think of because it leaves the game rules and behaviors up to the designer (you). With that said, these frameworks take care of a lot of the "nitty gritty" stuff such as switch handlers, ball trough logic, etc. In an open environment such as a pinball machine where your inputs are manipulated randomly, you have to leave any assumptions about what you're going to have to deal with at the door. This is the reason that developing a simple "hands off" framework such as a WYSIWYG is quite hard to do successfully.

The pinball machines you're used to were pretty much written in assembly. Even for the "modern day" software engineer, this can be difficult since creativity is easily stifled because you're having to worry about bit-level logic.

With the P-ROC, you have the entire toolchain already laid out for you. You have utilities to convert graphics into DMD-ready images, you have a sound manager, a mode queue and lots of sample code to go on. Also, the Python language (if you decide to go that route) can run on virtually any platform. I've also run this on the raspberry pi and TAF.

There is a customer base that has proven that you don't have to be a software engineer to get a game flipping in minutes. For those of you who have seen the Cactus Canyon Continued project, all of that development was done by a single person who isn't a software engineer, and its his first time ever looking at the Python programming language.

Coming from a background that has required me to do both assembly and higher level python coding, I'd take this framework any day over assembly, an arduino and shift logic, or any other alternative I've seen come to market.

Regarding the JD code, the code wasn't marketed as a drop in replacement for your existing JD software, it was designed to show the aspiring pinball programmer (and the potential customer) what could be done with the P-ROC and the entire toolchain that surrounds it. The framework has been extended considerably over the last three years since that code has been written as well.

Once again, just my two cents as a customer!

Happy flipping!

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

Let me just chime in here as a customer. I have a P-ROC running on my Demolition Man, and the opportunities that the P-ROC presents are far from limited. The fact of the matter is that P-ROC and its associated software kits are frameworks. This is probably the best model that I can think of because it leaves the game rules and behaviors up to the designer (you). With that said, these frameworks take care of a lot of the "nitty gritty" stuff such as switch handlers, ball trough logic, etc. In an open environment such as a pinball machine where your inputs are manipulated randomly, you have to leave any assumptions about what you're going to have to deal with at the door. This is the reason that developing a simple "hands off" framework such as a WYSIWYG is quite hard to do successfully.
The pinball machines you're used to were pretty much written in assembly. Even for the "modern day" software engineer, this can be difficult since creativity is easily stifled because you're having to worry about bit-level logic.
With the P-ROC, you have the entire toolchain already laid out for you. You have utilities to convert graphics into DMD-ready images, you have a sound manager, a mode queue and lots of sample code to go on. Also, the Python language (if you decide to go that route) can run on virtually any platform. I've also run this on the raspberry pi and TAF.
There is a customer base that has proven that you don't have to be a software engineer to get a game flipping in minutes. For those of you who have seen the Cactus Canyon Continued project, all of that development was done by a single person who isn't a software engineer, and its his first time ever looking at the Python programming language.
Coming from a background that has required me to do both assembly and higher level python coding, I'd take this framework any day over assembly, an arduino and shift logic, or any other alternative I've seen come to market.
Regarding the JD code, the code wasn't marketed as a drop in replacement for your existing JD software, it was designed to show the aspiring pinball programmer (and the potential customer) what could be done with the P-ROC and the entire toolchain that surrounds it. The framework has been extended considerably over the last three years since that code has been written as well.
Once again, just my two cents as a customer!
Happy flipping!

do you have the demo man on steroids running?

http://www.pinnovating.com/projects_dm.htm

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

do you have the demo man on steroids running?
http://www.pinnovating.com/projects_dm.htm

Nah, the Demo Man on Steroids was a product of Dennis Vandepass (pinnovating), my DM concept was a bit of a different approach.

#13 11 years ago

It's sounding more and more interesting. Don't mind having to put some effort into tweaking it. Just a shame that no-one over here has one to try out in person.

I'll definitely do some more reading.

Cheers

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

Nah, the Demo Man on Steroids was a product of Dennis Vandepass (pinnovating), my DM concept was a bit of a different approach.
» YouTube video

Wow, you're creating a Pinball 2000 Demolition Man!

#15 11 years ago

Yeah, pretty much Seemed like a cool effort that nobody else had tried with the P-ROC, and as you can see, it's quite possible! The cool thing is we get about 60fps on it, so things roll quite smoothly.

#16 11 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

Nah, the Demo Man on Steroids was a product of Dennis Vandepass (pinnovating), my DM concept was a bit of a different approach.
» YouTube video

holy crap, it looks like a pin2k?! Thats pretty awesome. Is the full rule set changed? or was it modified?

#17 11 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

holy crap, it looks like a pin2k?! Thats pretty awesome. Is the full rule set changed? or was it modified?

Hey,

Currently the full ruleset has been changed. A lot of the same rules have been ported over, so the functions of the claw, carchase modes etc are the same. What I did though was change the music up, add more light shows, add a few deeper modes and a few that'll make the average pinball player scratch their head. A lot of the things in the software were things that began as a type of "Hey, lets see if this would work" idea. The other thing I am attempting to do is not use tinted glass since one of the main gripes was not being able to see areas of the playfield. Since our software controls all of the GI, we can overpower the monitor to make the playfield more visible. The glass is also not mirrored.

Perhaps we should start a new thread at some point. This is the first time I've told anyone about the efforts.

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

Hey,
Currently the full ruleset has been changed. A lot of the same rules have been ported over, so the functions of the claw, carchase modes etc are the same. What I did though was change the music up, add more light shows, add a few deeper modes and a few that'll make the average pinball player scratch their head. A lot of the things in the software were things that began as a type of "Hey, lets see if this would work" idea. The other thing I am attempting to do is not use tinted glass since one of the main gripes was not being able to see areas of the playfield. Since our software controls all of the GI, we can overpower the monitor to make the playfield more visible. The glass is also not mirrored.
Perhaps we should start a new thread at some point. This is the first time I've told anyone about the efforts.

I have never been so annoyed to not be able to get to youtube from work. I can't wait to check this out. DM is a favorite of mine...can't wait to see what you have done! A new thread would probably be a good idea...

#19 11 years ago

Yep, a new topic-title would be good and would fetch more attention I think!

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