Jubilee
Williams, 1973Willliams Jubilee does not advance to player 2,3,4 at the start of a game.
Turn the pin on.
Push the start button, player 1 lites.
Push the start button again no player 2
Push again no player 3 same with player 4.
Have credits on machine.
Can manually advance coin unit and players will advance.
Cleaned coin unit.
What am I missing or where should I start?
Quoted from Kickout:Push the start button again no player 2
If the Coin Unit stepup solenoid doesn't activate when you push the start button for player 2, , inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires, starting with this switch on the Reset relay.
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Pinball (resized).pngAlso, check the plastic cogs int he player step unit, i had the same problem once and one of the "teeth" on the cog had broken off, making the game unable to sense the player change.
I'd say the coin unit is stepping up properly since the Player 2-4 lights work properly. It seems the player /Player-up unit is not advancing. Check it for proper mechanical action. If good, trace the step up solenoid circuitry. Either a contact on the outhole relay, is not making, a contact on a score motor switch is not making or a break in the wiring. Of course contacts on the coin unit wipers can be at fault.
I'll need to see a high resolution copy of the schematic (Kinko's, FedEx etc.) to help with specifics.
Then there's the basics. Reseat all Jones plugs between the bottom board and backbox board. Inspect for oxidation. Clean if necessary.
Quoted from MrBally:It seems the player /Player-up unit is not advancing
Agreed.
Heres a good rebuild tutorial of a Jubilee player unit
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Williams_Stepper_Unit_Repairs
--Jeff
Quoted from HowardR:If the Coin Unit stepup solenoid doesn't activate when you push the start button for player 2 ...
Quoted from Kickout:I check that circuit and everything checked out OK.
Does the Coin Unit stepup solenoid activate when you push the start button for player 2?
Quoted from HowardR:Does the Coin Unit stepup solenoid activate when you push the start button for player 2?
Coin Unit stepup solenoid does not activate when start button is pushed.
Quoted from MrBally:I'd say the coin unit is stepping up properly since the Player 2-4 lights work properly. It seems the player /Player-up unit is not advancing. Check it for proper mechanical action.
I will check the player-up unit.
Ok, I am using a jumper to check the circuit at C-5. Starting with the jumper wire connected to yellow wire of the Coin Re. switch "D". Touch other end of jumper to Coin Unit S.U coil wire W-Blu 1, coil fires, player number advances to 2. Working back from there, touch jumper to W-Blu on Rest Re. "E", coil fires. Touch jumper to Blu-O 2 on Rest Re, coil fire. Touch jumper to Blu-O 2 at C-1 B on score motor, coil fires, Touch jumper to O-R1 on other side of C-1 B, coil fires, touch jumper to O-R1 on Coin Re, coil fires. So it appears this circuit is working correctly. Any idea where I should check next?
Hi Kickout
in post-1 You do not write about the Replay-Counter and You do not write about the Coin-Relay.
I believe when You (successfully) start a new One-Player-Game the Replay-Counter does step down one step and the Coin-Relay pulls-in for a while. I guess when You try to start for a second Player: No stepping down on the Replay-Counter - no pulling-in of the Coin-Relay. Am I guessing right ?
See the JPG - starting a new One-Player-Game: The pin is not busy resetting (switch-red-1 is closed), the pin is not busy letting run the Score-Motor for some reason (switch-red-2 is closed), You press the Replay-Button (and close switch-red-3), there are replays on the counter (switch-red-4 is closed), the game You just have finished (the game before) has ended normal means You has reached Game-Over so switch-red-5/B is closed as the G.O.-Relay has tripped, current can flow to the coil (red-6) - the Replay-Relay pulls-in, establishes Self-Hold-Current by closing red-7, also closes red-8 and the Coin-Relay (red-9) pulls-in, actuates switches , closes (red-10) its Self-Hold-Switch. The Replay-Relay and the Coin-Relay stay pulling for a while - then (see arrow, red-11) a switch on the turning Score-Motor will cut the Self-Hold-Circuitry of these two relays - they quit pulling.
JPG, encircled blue: Pressing the Replay-Button has no effect when the pin is busy resetting, whenever the motor is running - also a thrown-in Coin will be reflected into the return compartement (Coin-Lockout-Coil non-pulling means reflecting).
A,B,C,D,E: These switches also hinder current to flow to the Coil on Replay-Relay - when You have started for FOUR players: switch-red-A has opened so You cannot start for an (not existing) fifth player. C, D (, E) are open when the pin has completed the starting of a new One-Player-Game.
The reason why C, D (,E) are in the pin: In a One-Player-Game we can press the Replay-Button when we are playing Ball-2,3,4,5 - we say: I do not want to play the remaing balls - I want to start for a new Game --- In a 2/3/4-Player-Game we can press the Replay-Button when we are in Ball-1-2nd-Player (or 3rd, 4th) - Ball-2,3,4,5 - we say: We do not want to play the remaing balls - we want to start for a new Game. In the JPG I added "marked brown" - some pins do have (Jubilee has not): A switch on Ball-Index-Relay - as soon as the very first ball has made the first points: We can press the Replay-Button and start a new One-Player-Game.
Your description in post-13 is good - ONE thing You did not test: The switch on the Coin-Relay - either the relay is pulling but the contact-points on the switchblades are oxidated - or the blades do not touch --- or the relay is not pulling. Greetings Rolf
0Jubilee-Work-05 (resized).jpgRolf
Sorry about leaving the Replay-Counter and Coin-Relay out of post 1.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:I guess when You try to start for a second Player: No stepping down on the Replay-Counter - no pulling-in of the Coin-Relay. Am I guessing right ?
The Replay-Counter does step down, the Coin-Relay does not pull in.
I will go through the information you sent and will reply back as so as I can.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Your description in post-13 is good - ONE thing You did not test: The switch on the Coin-Relay - either the relay is pulling but the contact-points on the switchblades are oxidated - or the blades do not touch --- or the relay is not pulling.
I will check the switch, and re-clean it, and make sure the blades touch.
Thanks Kickout
Hi Kickout
is this true ??? "Your post-16: The Replay-Counter does step down - but the Coin-Relay does not pull-in" ??? See HowardR 's JPG in post-2: The Coin-Relay must be pulling so its switch close for to actuate the Replay-Unit-Reset-Coil. The situation is strange. Greetings Rolf
Rolf
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:Hi Kickout
is this true ??? "Your post-16: The Replay-Counter does step down - but the Coin-Relay does not pull-in" ??? See HowardR 's JPG in post-2: The Coin-Relay must be pulling so its switch close for to actuate the Replay-Unit-Reset-Coil. The situation is strange. Greetings Rolf
That is correct. Working with HowardR to see if we can track down the problem.
HowardR
Reviewing some older post concerning Jubilee, I found the following from Rolf, about the startup sequence:
Pushing the Replay-Button should make the Replay-Relay pull-in. (it does)
Then the Coin-Relay should pull-in. (it does)
Then the Reset-Relay should pull-in. (it does)
The Score-Motor should run. (it does)
Score reels reset to zeros (they do)
Play one lites (it does)
Ball one lites (it does)
To this point everything works in order. The coin-relay when it pulls in engages the coin unit step-up coil, but at the same time the coin unit reset coil engages over riding the step-up coil and putting the player up at player one. This happens each time the replay button is push, never going to player 2,3 or 4.
Reviewing the schematics for all circuits that control the coin unit reset coil.
Looking at section E-5 of the schematic. The Reset Re M/B switch "E" must make to engage the Coin Unit S.U coil. This switch must then break so Reset Re N.O switch "B" at E-6 can close and engage Coin Unit Reset coin, Game Over Re. Latch and Ball Count Reset. I believe that for some reason both switches are engaging at the same time, with the E-6 "B" switch over riding the Coin Unit S. U. coil. Does this make sense and would that be possible?
Quoted from HowardR:The Game Over and Reset relays shouldn't activate when you're adding the 2nd player. Do they?
Quoted from Kickout:Both relay activate when replay button is pushed for second player.
I'm hearing that the Game Over relay trips then latches when the replay button is pushed for second player. Is that right?
Quoted from HowardR:I'm hearing that the Game Over relay trips then latches when the replay button is pushed for second player. Is that right?
Yes that is true. I've been trying to test those circuits.
i just got a project jubilee, its working but the 100 point relay locks on sometimes and some units need a cleaning. it is in mint condition with a perfect backglass, no flaking. i can't seem to find the schematic. do any of you know where i can get it? thanks
Hi Nickson
look here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/darling-same-ball#post-4211806 --- greetings Rolf
Quoted from Kickout:Nickson,
Is there anyway you could at a pic of the Ball Count unit on the coil side showing the leaf switch in the Zero position. Here is what I am looking for.
Kickout[quoted image]
you want to see mine?
Quoted from Kickout:Nickson,
Is there anyway you could at a pic of the Ball Count unit on the coil side showing the leaf switch in the Zero position. Here is what I am looking for.
Kickout[quoted image]
This does not look like zero position to me.
Quoted from Nickson:i can post one when i get home at 3
If you could it would be helpful
Quoted from Pafasa:This does not look like zero position to me.
That is what I am trying to determine.
Quoted from Kickout:If you could it would be helpful
1982A23E-7674-4CFD-A2A6-C3E94D17C3B6 (resized).jpegHowardR
Here are the pics of my unit and Nickson's unit. I see a difference in where the are on the racket is sitting on the leaf switch. Going to take a closer look at my unit to see if the prior owner has the racket out position. Will get back to you. Have to thank you again for the help you have provided. I think we are on the track to getting this issue corrected.
Kickout
Kickout (resized).pngNickson (resized).pngQuoted from Kickout:see if the prior owner has the racket out position.
Be careful before you reposition the ratchet. The Ball Count unit has a wiper that has to be positioned correctly. Here's a page from the Jubilee manual.
Also, the missing ratchet teeth have to be positioned correctly.
If nickson's is right, then kickouts is close. It looks like the teeth are in the right position in relation to the post that hits the switches. It looks like the step down coil is locked on or that part of the stepper arm mech is gummed up. rotate the stepper gear counter-clockwise so the post is above the switches instead of below. That post should hit the top of the switches when at zero position, opening both switches. Make sure both the step up coil (lower left) and step down coil (upper right) are all moving freely and their associated ratchet arms are pivoting freely too.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jubilee-issue?hl=luzur and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Bel Air, MD
Aarau
Kitchener, ON