(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

9 years ago


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34 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #7211 Zombie Yeti (Jeremy Packer), first post on the Magic Girl/JPop fiasco Posted by zombieyeti (9 years ago)

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (7 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (7 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (7 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (7 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (7 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (7 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (7 years ago)


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-3
#9915 8 years ago

Allow me to suggest a maybe stupid solution that you'll probably gonna laugh at: We've all seen what is likely to happen when an anrgy (pinside) mobs starts hiring lawyers and such. Nothing productive, lives get ruined, no games get build, interesting designs will never be taken into production, no positive outcome for pinball in general. I have no horse in this race, which may actually allow me to still look at the situation with some sort of helicopter view.

So John admits he can't produce the games and he's looking for a solution (at least he's looking for a solution). The solution being offered is not favored by many, which is understandable. So, to turn this into something more productive, why don't the people that pre-ordered one or more games unite as a group and come up with an alternative plan to get the games made? If it's unlikely that you'll get your money back, you may as well look into that, so you at least end up with something. I don't know the details, but could the pre-order group as a whole say they 'own' the MG design? If so, the group could then also find a manufacturer for the game. Obviously you'd run a larger run of games, but the end result would still be you get your game and maybe (call me an optimist) end up making some money too. I'm not sure such a construction is something that could be seriously considered, but if it could then there might actually come something good out of all of this.

#10120 8 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

No comments on my deposits converted to shares?

Actually I think what you suggest is similar to what I suggested earlier on, but your concept is more refined. I think that could actually work, benefit all involved and pinball in general and we still get to see games made.

To continue this project I think the math is actually pretty simple (helicopter view mode on):
- For MG John received like $250,000.00 in pre-order money.
- Basically a new investor could license the right to build that game and would inherit the obligation to deliver the game to those who pre-ordered and didn't get a refund earlier on, or he should refund whoever wants a refund. So in theory getting the license means buying into a $ 250.000 dept. That may make it a very affordable license.
- The design of MG is pretty cool. From what I've seen think in the style of TOTAN.
- Could a new manufacturer sell 1,000 of those games? If priced reasonably (and 16K or even 12K seems not reasonable) I'd say yes. Most likely such an investor is still likely to have a margin on each game sold of $ 1,000 or more.
- So in theory sell 250 games and the investment in the license is recouped. Sell another 100 and the production set up costs are recouped as well. Sell the other 650 games and that not just $ 650.000 in profit, but actually more as then only the production materials and costs need to be paid for, so the profit margin on those games is bigger.
- If I had a pinball factory this would be a no brainer. I'd take the license in a heartbeat, get the games produced, everybody happy.

I've seen/heard about a figure of $1,000,000 being received by John. That obviously requires some more math as I'm not informed on how many deposits that is on which games. But in theory you can still see that money as development costs for all the games worked on. Stepping in as an investor means owning these and being obligated to manufacture them, but you could skip the obligation to refund. So if you pre-ordered there is no refund possible, but you will get the game (as long as you paid in full).

As far as I could tell when visiting John's workshop in October of last year, both MG and RAZA seemed to be pretty far in developement. Plus there is aparently another game that no-one has seen yet (not AIW). So 2, potentially 3 designs to manufacture to recoup your investment. That may still seem profitable. Especially since a new investor may not even have to pay that much money. In theory that money was spent to develop the games, but an investor could still buy the whole thing for less. As long as the games get made there is no reason / need to refund. So basically there's a couple of cool designs up for graps. How much do you think it costs Stern or JJP to develop a game? My guess is if buying the Zidware designs is an option they'll spend less on that than designing a new game from scratch. Again: a no brainer.

Let's say the above isn't fiction, but a realistic option. Another, but less favorable option: John could sell the designs for X amount, but keeps responsible for doing the refunds. Then it would be a more expensive investment, but hardly more than the total sum of pre-order money. If John would get that kind of money out of such a deal he can refund most / all of the deposits. When refunded by John the new owner would not be obligated to deliver that game for free to that person, so another game that could be sold = more income / profit.

Keep in mind one thing: John may have made some mistakes as a business man, but he designs some pretty interesting and good looking games. It's actually amazing that pinball companies aren't outbidding each other to get these designs. If I had a pinball company I'd be on my way with a checkbook.

#10674 8 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I want to make sure the current customers understand the math. Definitely not saying this is the wrong way to do business, just think this is important for people to comprehend.
Pintasia is obviously going to spend a decent chunk of money getting the games finalized.
I'd imagine the the first games will go to fulfilling Pintasia's original order(s). Then, the first profits Pintasia makes will be used to pay back the amount they spend getting the games finished. Then after all that has been paid back, any extra will be divided among the owners to offset a *new* purchase.
Not saying that is the wrong way to do it, but current customers that think this leads to them getting a game just need to understand the raw math behind it and where they fall in the pecking order.
For example, if it takes Pintasia $500k more to get the game to a state someone like Stern would agree to manufacture it, and they make $2.5k profit on each machine sold, they would need to sell 200 new orders to recoup the money Pintasia puts into finishing it. New profits beyond that, minus Pintasia costs, will get split up among owners toward a new purchase.
If JPop took $1M in pre-orders, at $2.5k profit per unit, they would need to sell 400 new units beyond the 200 above to make the owners "whole".
It's not impossible, it's just going to be a VERY long time before owners see a dime, even if they start selling new units through a manufacturer. That very likely means someone off the street could purchase a MG years before an original purchaser gets theirs.
Someone correct me if I misunderstand any of that.

On what do you base the profit of 2.5K per unit? $ 1,000.00 profit per game seems reasonable to me. Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit. That would cover the whole investment, right?

1 year later
#20017 7 years ago

As posted in the other thread:

As I was preparing my monthly Pinball Magazine Newsletter with the recap of September I found myself wondering about a thing or two about American Pinball. As I've had some email contact with them last week when Houdini was first announced I dropped them an email and asked whether they would be up for a quick phone interview. As they were I figured: let's turn that into a podcast and they were OK with that. So here's the first Pinball Magazine podcast: A quick interview with Scott Goldberg and Dhaval Vasani of American Pinball.

https://soundcloud.com/user-935579828/pinball-magazine-podcast-01-american-pinball
https://soundcloud.com/user-935579828

Please note: I'm not trying to be Nate or any of the other podcasts, but this was the quickest way to get the interview out. So don't expect any tunes, jingles and all that kind of stuff. This is just a phone interview with an intro and outro. During the interview at some point the audio dropped away on Scott's end, but I left it like that. I figured what he was trying to say was pretty clear.

Hope you enjoy and appreciate the effort

Cheers,

Jonathan
http://www.pinball-magazine.com

1 year later
#24033 5 years ago

is there a link to the official ruling of the court?

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