Belmont, NC
Thought I would chime in.
It is just one lawsuit. JPOP could most-likely offer to make the guy "whole" and the suit could go away quickly. All for less than the $30K in the doc.
I am not an attorney or attorney spokesman.... 
(Topic ID: 92436)
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Alice in Wonderland
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Yes a run of lawsuits would do JPOP in, but I think the current lawsuit is being filed by a lawyer. Not everyone wants to go to court. I think most would still want the game if they could get it.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:If one guy gets his money, won't many others also go the same route to get their money as well? This is one scenario where you don't want to be any where near the end of the line.
I may be crazy, but I see at least one MG getting made. Not by the originators, but by whoever gets the assets. Hey, if they can remake Pinball Circus..... Remember all the buzz about remaking Wizard Blocks?
I think the only good option is for the buyers and unpaid vendors to get together and form a corp. (as someone said earlier) and get the assets from the presumed coming bankruptcy. After you have all the assets free and clear, get together with one of the established manufacturers to make the game. There is so much buzz about this game it would be a real Phoenix story.
Sorry for all with skin in the game.
I assume that they have not filed for bankruptcy (yet).
Quoted from iceman44:As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company
No. I think they are broke (not bankrupt - yet). They do have assets - a game a lot of people are talking about.
I think Ice is right about the money. You would be suing for whatever "assets" are left.
Again - Sorry for those involved.
Quoted from iceman44:I would advise my client to use common sense. Do you believe they are flush with cash and assets
I woulds say that the "liabilities" outweighed the assets.
Quoted from iceman44:If the assets are so valuable why didn't Stern or JJP bail him out?
They told him to get lost
The gift horse here is that you have a choice, yours to make
Nobody likes John or the situation
You fought the good fight Ice. Too bad the people you were fighting for let everybody down.
Quoted from iceman44:Man, some people are living in fantasy land right there with John
I accept the fact that it's over
And I've made my decision not to sue him. I'll blame myself for being stupid. Life is too short.
So pile on and have some fun. It doesn't matter
I would guess Terry before Jack. They said that the company is from Chicago. Jack is from New Jersey. Terry would have to love the game to make it happen. I hope that he doesn't get caught up in this.
Quoted from DCFAN:I am guessing Terry, but I really don't know him well enough to know if he has the financial ability to pull this off.
I tell my friends that think I make money working on and with pinball machines, "There is no money in pinball".
Quoted from benheck:No way in hell it's Terry.
If DP can't move 300 TBL at 8k (a real game people have flipped and loved) there's no chance you're going to sell 200 original theme 16k vaporware games with a toxic reputation.
Guessing the scam idea is all current JPOP owners (nearly 200 hm...) will pony up to secure a LE Magic Girl. You can tell this from the Classic scam framework.
RAZA victims either pay in $9500 more to get a MG LE, or lose $3250 and have to pay in $8750 to get a $12,000 Classic.
You save $750. Zidware saves 4k.
They're quoting prices without a BOM? Even if this goes ahead, it's doomed to fail because JOHN STILL WORKS THERE.
And god, what's going to happen to Cointaker in all of this?
I can envision Gary Stern in a restaurant somewhere in Chicago raising his glass and laughing. "Want to make pinballs, eh." "Come on in the water is cold." 
I am sorry for people that mostlikely will lose their money on this deal.
To clarify, this is an old deal that fell through.?
Quoted from deeproot:This was our informal plan, that's not under any NDA. John was to turnover MG and RAZA by July in whatever condition they were in at that time. Then John would 'disappear' for 2 years working on AIW. With RAZA for a release at 692 units by October 2016. MG at 1130 units in 2017. And AIW at 2k units in early 2018. All vendors paid by June 2015. All presales refunded by Feb 2016 for those that chose to not accept delivery (with refunds in part or credits for MSRP less than the amounts John arbitrarily chose at time of machine delivery). Penalty for refund would have been loss of certain 'privileges' (which will remain undisclosed as it is now moot). No real point to worry about any of that now. I wish these new investors the best. They are going to need it.
Lastly, we understand that by disclosing this information, we will open up ample opportunities for many to bash or criticize. No one else (including the few manufacturers today) came up with a solution to completely resolve the JPop dilemma. But at the end of the day not only was this plan realistic, it would have made everyone whole and released three amazing designs into a deserving community proving unlicensed themes can still match or exceed licensed ones. Bash away
RJM dT/dP
Keyser Soze?
Quoted from PopBumperPete:Its Wayne
The-Usual-Suspects-Verbal-Kint-IS-Keyser-Soze (1).jpegGotta go with Ben on this one.
This is my favorite part.
Quoted from benheck:Gotta star Tom Hulce (Amadeus)
I would say to cut the guy (Bill) some slack. Do you want to see the prototype of MG built or not?
Quoted from wcbrandes:again one more time she is not a shareholder I am 100%. If i pay her to get things done which she does she has 0 control over anything I do.
Yup.
Here is Murray is winning the Oscar. Tom is still the man for the (acting) job.
Quoted from jarjarisgod:In that case, you should be looking for F. Murray Abraham to take the reins on the role.
Yup. I think there would be a lot more interest from manufacturers and others if Bill can get a MG prototype built and take it to a show. Don't think he has asked for money to do that.
Quoted from Concretehardt:By people do you mean non customers who have no money on the line? If some of you are trying to run Bill off your doing a great job of it! Those of us who have been scammed by JPOP have already lost our money IMHO Bill is our last hope of getting something more than nothing. As an "owner" I feel I have nothing to lose and everything to gain if Bill can pull this off.
Just to recap... the money is already lost, JPOP pissed it down the drain! Without Bill its game over (no pun intended)
I see Zidware going into bankruptcy. You can't get 5 people in your office to agree to go to the same place for lunch much less 200+ people not to try to get their money back through the courts.
Someone will come along and buy the assets of Zidware. If there is a working prototype there is a much bigger chance the game will be made. I don't know who will get the assets of Zidware, but Bill is the only one who is saying he is trying to get the original customers/suppliers some of their equity back. The only other thing to do would be for the customers/suppliers to get together, form a corp and try to buy the assets to make whatever games they could or sell whatever assets at a higher price than you paid to cover losses.
Your money is gone. There are no pins.
Quoted from gcp:I'm going to stop posting for the night, no need to get deeper into a back-and-forth here, but I just want to clarify my position, since there seems to be some confusion.
I agree with you, that Bill's plan might result in pins getting built. I'm not disputing that - in fact I say as much in post #11937.
What I am questioning is whether this is being done a) legally, and b) ethically. The same mechanics could have been used in a proper bankruptcy proceeding, and I would not be nearly as skeptical of what is going on. A similar approach could have been taken, where Pintasia could have signed on as a volunteer *supplier* to Zidware; that would have been another way to contribute to the project "for the love of pinball" without (further) screwing any Zidware suppliers. Neither of these paths were the ones chosen; I'm sure that's because the path taken was a much better business deal for Pintasia.
All I'm asking is, is what they are doing a) legal, and b) ethical? If the answer to either question is no, I don't want to be a customer. That's really all there is to it.
I think the questions I've been asking have been fair and direct. I'm not sure why some people are objecting to my participation in the thread, but I'm happy to bow out, as I think the lack of answers have told me everything I need to know at this point.
Best of luck to everyone else!
I would say it is an uphill battle. Stranger things have happened, but I see the bankruptcy hammer falling sooner or later on Zidware. I think Bill bought the licence to produce the games from Zidware. I don't know what the courts will say about that.
Making pinball machines is the new thoroughbred horse ownership. It is a good way to make a large fortune into a small fortune. Tread lightly.
Quoted from Manic:This would be great but do you expect them to build a bunch of machines essentially for almost nothing to satisfy the people that have already given their money to JP? And then hope to make enough money from new sales of the machine to not just offset this cost... but then to even make a profit?
I wonder if they even have to honor the customers here if they buy rights to making the machine?
I would hope so but who knows? But personally I wish Bill and all you guys the best. Should be an exciting show... to say the least
Hang in there buddy. Don't let John ruin it for you.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:ALREADY SOLD 5 OF MY 13 PINS IN 3 DAYS! SICK OF THIS HOBBY! THANKS JOHN!
ALSO TOOK YOUR ZIDWARE WALL ART OF THE WALL,IT MAKES ME HURL !
Speaking as someone in the creative field, I would say that he just worked on what interested him and couldn't (chose not to) work on the tough parts of the game(s) to get the project finished. May be some OCD problems involved, not sure.
Quoted from MXV:One thing is for sure, I won't be wearing the Zidware shirt John gave me when I was working for him a couple of years ago anymore. That might get me killed, especially if I wore it to Expo. I can just imagine the heel heat I'd generate walking into a room full of pinheads, some of which were JPop's victims. I consider myself very lucky that the timing worked out that he flaked out on me and started blowing me off after he paid me for my work up to that point so I walked away not being owed any money. I feel horrible for everyone of you who got ripped off by him but I can't say the outcome surprised me. My one big takeaway from my time there was I had no idea how he was ever going to finish a game based on how scatterbrained he was and how one week he'd be working on something totally different and unrelated to what he was doing the previous week.
Remember on the Price is Right, some tool would bid $1 over making the person before have to hit the price on the nose. I guess 15,001.
Quoted from benheck:Gonna call it now, 15k posts by Sunday.
As a trained artist and illustrator I am pretty much amazed at ZY's work. I can pull most anything together visually but he is at a whole other level (of power and confidence).
Quoted from zombieyeti:If I cared about people's opinion that much I don't think my portfolio would resemble anything close to what it is.
Taste is subjective - yours as well as mine.
That said - Ben and I have talked a lot - I was not expecting that post...
Someone should check on iceman. I mean seriously.....
Quoted from iceman44:Wife and kids went to New York City
I'm gonna play a lotta pinball tonight
I'm gonna watch a lot of the show stream
And I'm probably gonna drink a case of beer!
As if it was ever a possibility, I won't be paying 16k for a pin of 199
The way I look at it now, I saved 17k minus about $4500 in total deposit money lost
I feel lucky to get out of this not pulling two hamstrings from grabbing my ankles for 4 years
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