I anxiously look forward to the anti-gravity technology JPop will be revealing in MG when it's released. Because anything less than that doesn't justify the NDA he's made his customer sign.

Sigh.

I am still reeling from the reaming I took several years ago when I was one of the lone voices that expressed concern over the nature of JPop's "business dealings", the need to sign a NDA and non-disparage agreement, the lack of detail of what actual resources he had available to produce a game and not merely design graphics for it? We had some heated Pinside-Style™ fights over the difference between an open, well-documented production team like JJP and the mysterious cloud of who was working with JPop. The fans would hear nothing from anyone skeptical. We were called "haters" and chased off the forums.

I would submit this is not a "Ponzi" scheme like others have been suggesting. A Ponzi scheme implies that some people in the short term get paid off. There never has been any pay off by anybody. The JPop deal was always straight-up gambling.

I'm sorry some people lost money, but I'm not surprised. Very little has actually changed from then to now as far as any of us can tell. There's never been any actual evidence the products could be brought to market. There's never been any details of actual people with business experience and pinball production experience being completely committed and on board to make the project work. Just promises... like the promise that the lottery ticket you just bought might pay off big time by that happy guy on tv.

You people that bought into it... you took a gamble. Had it paid off, you'd be sitting pretty and waxing poetically about how brilliant your move was. It didn't turn out that way. Don't hate too much on JPop. It wasn't hard to see that the deal was very unstable from the very beginning. Some people just let their hopefulness blind them to the reality of the situation. I hope some take some responsibility for that... it was a risky deal from day one. And lot of you viciously attacked people like me who had the audacity to question whether it was a prudent decision, so I'm having a hard time being super-sympathetic when my butt still hurts from being poked by pitchforks many of you were wielding.

In any case, I hope everybody gets their money back, and JPop makes things right. This isn't the first time we've had a "hobbyist" or someone without a team decide they were going to be a "manufacturer." How many times does this have to happen before people start to recognize it takes more than enthusiasm and pre-orders to mass produce pinball machines?

In the wake of the "proposed solutions" for customers, my opinion on this can be summed up in something other than words....

cb.jpg

If the "licensee" is really smart, he'd be pulling a JPop on JPop:

1.. Meet with JPop. Tell him you'll take care of everything. "Just sign this document. And pass that prototype over. I'll have 'my people' (sorry, can't tell you who they are just yet, trust me) "immediately get things started on putting the game into production. Don't worry John. We have it all figured out. Here's a picture of the front of a building we'll be doing the work in. Your game and license will be taken care of."

2.. Sell prototype

3.. PROFIT and get money back

I'm entering this thread a bit late - I spoke out a lot about this years ago when it first came up, and then recently when I heard things were imploding.

A few questions that run through my mind that I have yet to have answered (and if there are more details elsewhere on this, I'd love to have references and get back up to speed..)

* Everybody is accusing JPop of malicious fraud and throwing a lot of derogatory comments around. I'm curious if the issue is centered around him really intentionally lying or simply being a really horrible, naive businessperson?

I know it seems ridiculous that someone would be so naive as to drag this financial mess on as long as it has gone, but stranger things have happened. And there's a lot of people in this scene that love to sit in their echo-chambers and hear the sound of their voice without opposition. My original concern over the deal was that I always thought John was an artist - a great artist, but what experience did he have running a business? I'm not talking about merely slapping a "dba" behind your graphic design service, but actually managing people, suppliers, accounting, etc.?

So was this some kind of evil scheme from day one? Was it "graphic designer gets in way over his head?"

* Or was it something else, that *some* people who have dealt with him knew about and kept it largely quiet from the general community? Is he some kind of pathological liar who has delusions of grandeur? There does appear to be a trail of people who have worked with him that now aren't, but won't go into great detail as to why?

Ben Heck, what's the story with you? Y'all were collaborating. Now you're not. Obviously something happened. Did you see the writing on this wall awhile back and cut your losses? I know hindsight is 20/20 but do you think there may have been something you could have said or done to help the situation?

When I pre-ordered WOZ, I talked with Jack on the phone for more than an hour. We talked about the design team and his vision and other things. I remember asking him who he looked at to hire, and when JPop's name came up, IIRC, he was like, "um, yea, no, we're not going to hire him.. nope..." implying that there might be some history and bad blood... things that people know that others aren't saying. I don't know for sure, but it looks like some people might have known something and kept quiet.

I'm curious what that something is?

This to me, always seemed like another puzzling thing... why is one of the [formerly] most-respected designers in the industry being outcast by the major manufacturers? What did they know?

Wow.. I had no idea it was that bad... been taking a lot of time trying to catch up in this huge trainwreck of a thread.

My nature is to not immediately believe someone can be so ridiculously self-absorbed and sociopathic as to continually lie and take peoples' money. It just makes my skin crawl so I don't want to believe it, but it looks like there's ample evidence. I haven't had any personal dealings with him except awhile back I talked with him about a project and as soon as I mentioned there was no up front money until something was underway, he didn't even bother replying. I guess that's no surprise.

At this point, I'd wager the next "mystery game" was "Apocalypse Now".

It will be nice to finally see a prototype of the game. Very cool to see people coming together -- amazing what happens when you CROWDSOURCE a project instead of trying keep it top secret.

Let's drift back down to earth for a minute...

This is just a prototype, that in all likelihood is not even 50% complete.

Keep in mind, Gene Cunningham had a fully-working, 100% complete BBB - one of ten, and all the rights to the tech and the MPU boards and other things, and it still took him hundreds of thousands of dollars more than what people paid, and several years, to produce a similar number of machines, and it still bankrupted him.

As others have said, this group is at the one mile mark of a ten mile ride.

Even if the machine was 100% working, I wouldn't put down a pre-order. Not without a guarantee that whoever produces the machine has at least $1M+ committed to production costs on top of what they expect to get in deposits. Anything less is still a huge gamble. Even for people who already have money in the deal.

If this machine ever sees the light of day, whoever funds it will take a loss. Y'all need to admit that up front and say you're going to take the loss because you want to see the machine made. Anything less should be met with skepticism. At least be honest with everybody. They deserve it after everything that's happened.

I wouldn't call it a "conspiracy theory", more just a "business move." It would make sense for anyone who is over-extended to mitigate their losses. The deal the new group is offering the rest of their kin isn't any "deal" as much as it's a chance to buy into the IP they've snatched away from John at the last minute. It's still the same high-risk deal as it was before, with new players, that aren't giving anybody any guarantees.

But a tiny speck on the horizon has everybody screaming, "Land Ho!"

It will be interesting to see what the legal fallout is of JPop handing off the valuable assets and getting stuck with the liabilities -- obviously he must be planning to declare bankruptcy? The new group isn't doing anybody any favors since they've taken the good stuff and not made any promises to anybody to make up for Zidware's malpractice. I wouldn't call this a "conspiracy" but it does look like they're playing a shell game.

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Everybody knows following through on BBB crippled Gene financially. It may not have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but it definitely gave the camel its first major fracture.

The machines still need to be made. If all the money was spent on "design", what's left for manufacturing? The lion's share of the expenses? This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room nobody's talking about.

If they're asking for another eight grand per person to fund the production, and there's only 17 people involved, how is this machine going to be made? Jersey Jack had 1000 pre-orders and still had to dip into his pockets to get WOZ made.

I don't think anybody is seriously questioning your desire to want to make rights out of the wrongs. Don't take our skepticism as any indication we want you to fail. Quite the contrary. I'm sure almost everybody wants to see the games made. It's just there are a lot of unanswered questions. I appreciate you taking the time to address what everybody is asking. This probably means you're going to have to deal with a significant amount of cynicism given the circumstances (and I think we all know it's not your fault) -- but this is a hot potato that you've decided to pick up. Thanks for keeping us informed.

You have the prototype and the IP rights now do you not?

Can you elaborate on what your arrangement was to acquire that?

You appear to be the only pre-order customer that has actually gotten something from Zidware, and we're all curious what that cost and what the terms of that deal are?

I really think if there's going to be any trust here, the details of that arrangement need to be made public.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what we basically know about the situation is something like this?

* Zidware took money from at least 17 people (edit: for MG, 125 or RAZA and an undetermined amount for AIW: thanks RareHero) and hasn't produced anything and has stated they have no intention of refunding anybody

* Zidware will not be producing the games. The only known assets they have aside from office equipment are the prototypes and the IP/licensing. There's talk of bankruptcy, which screws all customers and suppliers.

* A customer has come in and negotiated some deal to take what appears to be most of the assets of the company out of the company, right before it implodes.

* This new company "is looking into making the games" and has some ideas, but it remains to be seen if they can do more than display a prototype.

* The new company is offering some kind of arrangement where it will give partial credit to previously-shafted customers, but in effect, there is no guarantee the games will be made and there's conditions on the arrangement (like a waiver of liability) that are just as suspicious as JPop's original agreement.

There are four different factions in the scenario:

1. the licensee and their people that now have Zidware's IP and prototypes
2. customers who are owed money and/or games
3. suppliers who are owed money
4. the pinball community

Faction 1: They lost money in the deal, but they now have Zidware assets that they can use to offset their loss, or possibly turn a profit.

Faction 2: They appear to be screwed. The only option they've been offered is to try and make a deal with Faction 1, who may or may not complete a deal, and regardless they can't seek justice or sue

Faction 3: They appear to be screwed as well. But depending upon whether Faction 1 needs their help, they may get some of their owed money back.

Faction 4: No skin in the game, but the group most likely to ask the hard questions and get to the bottom of the deal and try to keep the pinball market from turning into a casino.

I'm curious among the lawyers here, what are the options available? Could Zidware legally hand off most of their assets to a third party before aborting the business and leave their customers hanging? People are being told to "wait" but this is the critical time where any assets that could be used to offset customer and supplier losses can be "disappeared."

On top of this, there are a few "basic facts" (based on history) - some might argue with this, but I'm going to put it out there:

Fact 1: Building pinball machines is hard. Even with a working prototype, it is a very difficult, time-consuming process. The design aspect is only a tiny piece of the effort. And that's basically all you have at this point. And it's not complete.

Fact 2: It's highly unlikely that a new manufacturer could produce X of these games without going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt. No savvy "businessman" or "investor" would take this project strictly for the profit potential. It's not there. The product is too fragile. The market is too small. The cost to produce is too high. There are too many different suppliers needed. It's a circus trying to tie all the components together and make it work. That's not to say it can't be done. People have done it, but (AFAIK) nobody has ever managed to do it on time and under budget.

Fact 3: As far as pinball machines go, MG was not engineered to be "easy to manufacture" so whatever issues there might be with production are further compounded by the "no compromises in design" aspect.

Given what we know, what are the options and most likely what's going to happen?

If history is any indication there are three basic outcomes:

1. The producer never makes the product and the customers and suppliers get shafted. (perhaps some more than others due to what happens legally)

2. The games do get made and whoever produces them takes a loss, but manages to get them made.

3. The games are made and the deal gets turned around and works out.

What outcome is the most likely? What outcome has happened the most in the past?

I think anybody that comes in and makes promises to the community needs to recognize the reality of the situation and the history of the industry.

What do you all estimate are the amounts people paid?

People have been talking that JPop collected "a million dollars".. does it really seem like that's true?

I think the question everybody should be asking is:

"What are the exact terms of your deal with Zidware?"

"You appear to have most of the assets of that operation, and there are 100+ people who paid for what you have in your possession, that you owe an explanation to on how you got it?"

HOLY MOLY! WTF? Is there a thread about this? I had no idea. Daaayuuumm.. this industry is cray-cray!

+100

It's not just about what you can do. You have to source parts from dozens of different suppliers. Nobody can completely control all the components they need to build a pinball machine, which means that if any piece of the puzzle isn't there, the whole project fails. No experienced businessperson wants to get into this line of work. Too many variables. Too many things that can go wrong and cause the whole project to fail.

BUMP

Several people keep asking.

No it doesn't end the discussion at all.

People keep asking:

WHAT ARE THE TERMS OF THE DEAL?

People are going to keep asking until they get an answer. How does one of 100+ of the customers end up with the intellectual property?

This was a back room deal, shutting out all the other people who were defrauded. If the new "licensee" wants to be trusted, he needs to come clean what what kind of deal he and JPop made.

What real "positive interest" is there achievable in this situation? Seriously, have you thought about it?

Even if the game was 100% complete, and in all likelihood it's probably closer to 60% at best, that's the easy part to have a prototype. The hard part is producing it. They've said, "There is no money!"

What part of "There is no money" makes anything positive about this story, when people have already paid for the games??

I think a more important question everybody should ask themselves is:

Should the game ever really be made?

Is there a snowball's chance in hell MG or any of the titles could be "so awesome" they could make up for the epic clusterf&ck the producers created? Highly doubtful. The cloud hanging over this game will forever make it an "Edsel."

And, if the game is made, it could end up vindicating a guy whose incompetence and hubris defrauded many people and hurt the industry. The first thing JPop would say is, "Thanks for those who had faith in me!" He would claim all his efforts, even with the hiccups, were worth it.

If you ask me, there's a strong argument for the proto, along with all the art to be dumped in a secret landfill the way Atari did with E.T.

The guy from Pintasia is here and can dispell all these speculations, but he keeps ignoring continued requests to elaborate on what kind of deal he made with JPop.

For all we know he told John, "Look I'm going to pretend I'm a disgruntled customer like everybody else, but I'll continue your work with you in total control (but we'll tell people you're not) and split the money I receive 50-50 with you." We just don't know.

I hate to sound pessimistic and cynical but Bill's ignored something like 20 requests to outline what his exact relationship is with Zidware and it's a kinda important element if he expects anybody to support him.

There's no guarantee that John still isn't in control of everything. Why wouldn't he be? This is a great way to have his cake and eat it too. Deflate the anger. Stall people who would otherwise be taking legal action, etc.

Hey y'all, turn on the TV.. there's some live footage of the MG prototype on its way to the pinball show...

magic_girl_proto.png

I cannot believe I made that. I'm completely ashamed of myself. You guys are a horrible influence.

I'd like to chime in here on this front as well. I may have been one of the first people to get "the Pinside treatment" for being skeptical of this deal. It's why I left and stopped hanging out for probably two years or so.

Let's reiterate the fundamental reality of the situation:

1. There is no money to make this game. This game cannot be made, profitably, by anyone. Unless Pintasia is going to pledge that they're going to spend 7 figures to do this, there is absolutely no reason to get excited. Seeing a flipping prototype doesn't mean in any way, customers are even remotely close to ever getting their own games. But customers are being told to "wait and see" as if the outcome of that proto is going to magically solve the huge problem of there being no money and no means to make the game. It won't.

2. I don't really see any Pintasia "haters" here. People are frustrated though. Just because we're being cynical, skeptical or critical, doesn't mean we want people to fail. It's really tiring to see the "victim card" being played when it's not appropriate.

3. The reason people are on Pintasia's case is SIMPLE. The Pintasia people ARE NOT BEING STRAIGHT WITH THE PINBALL COMMUNITY. Period. These guys have been asked numerous times what kind of deal they made with Zidware/JPop to become "licensee" and they refuse to answer this basic question. There is zero reason for anybody to trust them until they see exactly what kind of legal relationship they have with the company that has allegedly ripped off 100+ customers.

People are going to keep asking: "What are the terms of the Pintasia/Zidware licensing deal." And every day that this critical question is ignored, peoples distrust increases.

It does make a difference. If someone ripped you off, and then someone who has gotten in bed with them and agreed to continue to work with them on a contractual basis is asking for you to trust them, it makes sense to be 100% open, and this is exactly what the licensee is not doing.

If anybody expects Pintasia to be different from Zidware, then the first rule of business is TRANSPARENCY. That's the one thing Zidware didn't do. They kept all the details of their development secret, and this secrecy was directly responsible for everybody getting screwed. Now along comes another company that is veiled in secrecy regarding its relationship with JPop. Not a good idea.

For all we know, JPop is still in 100% control of everything.

Until the contract between Zidware and Pintasia is made public, there's no reason to assume anything has changed.

You are in bed with a guy that has appeared to have defrauded more than a hundred people and caused an uproar in the community. The nature of your relationship with that guy is going to be something everybody wants to know about. Not just "an outline" but the details. How much does JPop get paid for the license? How much is he going to profit from your efforts? How much control does he have over manufacturing, creative, and other aspects? People want to know.

This is pretty much how I feel too..

And now there's a strange Deja Vu happening with some customers suggesting that those of with no skin in the game are creating a problem by asking tough questions. Really? We're the problem?

I know you're just trying to make the best of a bad situation. Nobody can fault you.

But really.... the notion that even in the aftermath of this debacle, John would still negotiate to be put on salary is really disgusting.

I've been involved in startups for decades. I just mortgaged my house to get a business line of credit so I could purchase a building to create a pinball community in my city. I then spent my life savings renovating the building. I have no cash anymore. I couldn't qualify for a standard loan because I wasn't paying myself a regular salary. That's how startups work. You put everything into it and you only expect to see a reward much later. John put himself in front of everybody else and it's absolutely offensive, not just to his customers, not just to the pinball community, but to any self-respecting businessperson who has ever run an honest startup.

Agreed.

And this is why, Pintasia shouldn't be the group to finish what John started. Their deal, no doubt, continues to pad his pocket after he's defrauded the community. It's immoral.

The lawsuits should continue. The Zidware assets should be auctioned off. If Zidware cannot refund EVERYBODY IN FULL, they should pierce the corporate veil of Zidware and take John's personal assets and liquidate everything.

Then a new group will purchase the IP outright, and anybody that wants the games can have them made, totally without JPop having anything to do with it. He can be just another name in a LONG LIST of people who made the game a reality, IF it is ever made, and not a single penny should ever go back to him.

If there is any justice, that's how it probably should be executed. There should not be any reward for taking all these peoples' money and having nothing to show for it except lies and deceit.

I really don't want to rain on the Pintasia parade, but their deal with Zidware obviously puts money into JPop's pocket, all the while his customers continue to get shafted.

I don't think that's a moral or ethical arrangement.

I know people want to see the game made, especially his customers.

But I think the best way to achieve this would be to liquidate Zidware assets, and start fresh. Take some of that revenue generated and pay back the customers and the creditors. Then at least the customers may have some money to put into a second chance at producing the game by a group that is unaffiliated with Zidware completely (hopefully). If you deal with Pintasia, you're basically giving more money to JPop, in effect rewarding him for his malpractice. I guess now we know why Bill isn't completely up front about the deal. It rewards the customer's rapist.

Sorry Bill, I know this is probably the best deal for YOU. It doesn't sound though, like it's the best deal for everybody else. I understand you have good intentions, but keeping JPop in the loop on this, in any capacity, doesn't seem like a move that is respectable to the community. And I think actually, the games would have a better chance of being made if he was completely out of the picture. No creditor is likely going to work with a group that rewards JPop after he's screwed them over if they're not made whole.

Yea, there is no money in this deal. I don't see how these games can get made unless someone is willing to front $1M+ and they have to really be in love with the game/design to want to make such a sacrifice.

There's no incentive for any other manufacturer to want to step in this mess. JPop was trying to get hired by everybody else. They had their chance to bring him on board and they passed. I suspect the Stern people and Jersey Jack didn't want to work with him then, and can't imagine why they'd want to now?

So JPop got 100 people to pre-order. Big whoop. Jack got 1000 people to pre-order a theme half the community hated. Stern can fart 500 pre-orders any time they want. Why should they give a rat's ass about any of JPop's designs?

I went back and listened to the Topcast episode where George Gomez talked about SWE1. It's pretty obvious he was incredibly frustrated and upset with what JPop did to the platform. You can read between the lines of what he's saying and the tone of his voice that it's almost as if he feels JPop either consciously sabotaged the project, or refused to listen to anybody else on the team and "made the game his way" much to the detriment of everybody else on the P2K project and WMS whole pinball division -- and looking at what he's done with MG, RAZA and AIW, there's every indication these games might be equally ill-conceived in the wake of the overwhelming evidence that when JPop gets his way, he has a tendency to create epic disasters.

So someone explain to me why anyone should be excited about these games? Even when he had a huge team behind him, he had the capacity to shit bricks of the finest pewter.

Until we see the contract between him and JPop, nobody knows what "he's in it for."

He can tell you all anything he wants. He can "outline the deal" to the buyers, but if nobody has seen the agreement, ultimately, nobody knows what the deal is.

All this speculation could be instantly ended if he published the contract between him and JPop.

There is obviously a reason he won't go into details. If he's not in it for the money, then what is there to hide? If he wants to help everybody out, then what's there to hide?

There's only one reason to keep the contract secret.

Because everybody here has been hoodwinked by Zidware's secrecy. Everybody is tired of it. It's hurt hundreds of customers. It's hurt the industry. It's hurt the hobby.

There's no reason to believe anybody any more, no matter how nice they appear to be, if they're not going to be honest about what they're up to. It doesn't matter if they're famous. It doesn't matter if they're rich. It doesn't matter if they're friendly and "just want to help people." Every permutation of that scheme has resulted in people being hurt and manipulated. Come clean, or don't come at all.

Whatever happens at the NW show is irrelevant. The game is an unfinished prototype. The only action that is important right now is being TRANSPARENT.

People can announce anything. They can say they have this or that deal. It's all meaningless. Until the games are made and finished, or people are paid back, nothing has changed. And there's no money to do either. And anybody who's going to pre-order a game at this point has to be crazy... oh wait... now I get it... I didn't get it before... I was arguing about how some people were calling Zidware a "Ponzi Scheme"... ahhhh..... ok... no, it wasn't a Ponzi scheme then, BUT perhaps now it is... is that what this is about? Let's wind everybody up to get another round of pre-orders to pay off the first tier in the pyramid? That's the only reason why I could see anyone with any sanity saying, "wait.. let's see what happens with the proto..." Well, in that case it makes sense.... not ethical or moral, but it makes sense. Still nobody's going to get games, but maybe you guys can get paid back by "paying it forward" with the fraud? That's the only remaining plausible explanation for these bizarre "wait and see" arguments.

You're not the only person who's been asking for details of the deal...

take a number.jpg

Is this strictly a civil case? I'm curious why there is no discussion of fraud or criminal charges? My first response had I been in this situation would be to contact the local AG and file some kind of fraud complaint. After all, people paid for a product and that product was never delivered. Does Zidware have a merchant account? They could lose control of that as well. Did anyone pay with Paypal? Paypal will freeze their account over fraud claims.

Bwahahahahaha "It's been four years! We took over Europe and North Africa faster than this!"

Totally brilliant I'm not even going to try and one-up that. Well played sir!

People have posted quotes from him before where he waxed poetically, in response to other boutique builders' inexperience and lack of understanding of the manufacturing process. I don't think there's much room to be sympathetic at this point.

Also, I was reading through the Skit-B thread, and those people are apparently now getting refunds? I couldn't help but notice how much more aggressive they were in harassing everyone continuing to associate with the fraudulent operation, whereas with JPop, his associates show up and everybody's wishing them well despite not knowing what the relationship is with a group like Pintasia. If you respond differently, you're going to get different results.

I don't know all the details of the skit-B debacle but supposedly the FBI dropped the case and people think it's also a waste of time pursuing similar recourse with Zidware? I would beg to differ From what I read, the FBI couldn't find any evidence that Skit-B repurposed funds for projects other than what were promised customers. Everybody knows that's not the case with Zidware - customers' money was spent on a wide variety of stuff that had nothing to do with the products they purchased. I think there's a stronger criminal case there than there was with Skit-B. Customers should be acting appropriately IMO. And this notion that if one criminal investigator says it's not worth pursuing, that means give up.. that's not valid. They're all public servants - if enough people bitch and moan, they WILL act.

The reality of the situation has been apparent for awhile. A half-done (or even a finished) prototype won't change anything.

The hard part is the manufacturing! Not the design.

Meanwhile, people still hold out "hope". This is economic darwinism at its finest.

The screen is obviously blocked. The angle in the picture shows the display blocked and that's closer and higher up than a normal player's perspective. There are mock playfield parts like the magnets that are much smaller than the actual size of the parts to be installed. It looks like this thing is still in the rough design phase.

So has anybody outlined what actual "magic tricks" are in the game?

ToM had a number of interesting gimmicks like the reverse mirror, the hidden outlane ball saves (even though that was derivative from BK), tiger saw multi-ball, etc.

Other than ball diversion and misdirection, is there any new play dynamic in this game that makes it look "magical?"

Yea, there are some serious lighting issues with the game. Why not use RGB lighting in it in the first place? If you really want to make an "artistic" pinball machine, the first thing to do would be to use cheaper and more-popular surface mount RGB lighting and really accentuate the design. It's as if the lighting was merely an afterthought in the design, and all the LEDs stick out like sore thumbs through the inserts, and light everything horribly uneven.

That GI lighting can be software manipulated to be as soft or hard as desired. It's far superior to the old 555s and 47s and if done right, more fault-tolerant and reliable. Plus you can put any kind of bezel over the lighting if you want. There's very little thought into the lighting in this machine - it looks like an old pinball machine poorly retrofitted with bad LEDs.

This goes to demonstrate another of the many areas where JPop didn't really know what he was doing, and didn't bring in an expert who could have done a better job.

I want to see those receipts.. I don't believe that. Did he pay off a bunch of shorted suppliers?

There are all kinds of crazy claims here that don't make sense, with all due respect.

Who here wants to make this game and blow a half million to a million of their own money, to ultimately redeem JPop? Because that's exactly what people are hoping for. Someone is going to lose their butt producing a game that, by all accounts is "state of the art" circa 1997.

Let's call MG's presence at the show what it really is. It's not a "reveal." It's a wake.

facepalm.jpg

He has a half-finished prototype, there's legal action all over the place, his deal with JPop is as "top secret" as Zidware's normal dealings, his first attempt to negotiate with customers was to have them waive any and all liability to proceed further, there are reports he has business associates who have a shady past, there are tons of disgruntled and ripped off suppliers, and you think an estimate like that holds water?

Honestly, I'm not trying to rain on y'alls parade. I'm just pointing out that you guys are, once again, marching towards a cliff, with your heads in the clouds and not looking realistically at the road ahead.

I'd like to take this opportunity to coin a new pinball term:

"Purplewood" - (n) 'purp-el-wood - A prototype similar to a "whitewood" but with more completed graphics, lights and superficialities instead of game mechanics and ruleset. A "whitewood" game is "flippable" but often without graphics, but does show the majority of the game's mechanical devices. A "purplewood" by comparison, looks like a finished game, but often doesn't have even half of the actual game mechanical devices installed or operational.

Hey dude, good for you. Thanks for helping bring the game out so people could see it. I'm sure everybody appreciates that.

But don't take it personally if people are not satisfied with the status of the game or the Pintasia deal. That has nothing to do with you guys.

Bill would probably have less heat on him if he was totally honest with the community over exactly what the terms of his deal is with JPop. But he continues to keep that secret, so it ramps up people's cynicism. Again, nothing personal. If I were around, I'd love to help get the game set up too. Thanks for helping out! Thanks for sharing this with the community. It's unavoidable that there's going to be a lot of controversy surrounding it.

Is that really 50% of the game's features?

Can someone explain to me where the innovation is? Is there anything there we haven't seen on a pinball machine before?

I'm sincerely asking. This was such a super-top-secret project, I assumed there were some amazing and unique playfield mechanics that were to be revealed? Where are they?

I assume there's a list of the main sections of the game, and what features and functions? I assume it's more than just ramps and magnets that divert the ball?

ToM had the "trunk" which was a unique device that rotated and had different features. Is there something like this in MG? I see lots of things borrowed from other games. I'm wondering what is unique?

Anybody else notice the voice at the end of the Pinball News video of MG gameplay?

"The game has ended, and you are no further ahead than last time."

A vacuum? Cool. It's about time we had a game that cleans up after itself.

I'm curious why any programmer who was not getting paid didn't drop some kind of "time bomb" into the code?

I once wrote a piece of software for a car dealership that kept track of people who walked on the lot for marketing purposes. I had heard they had a problem paying suppliers but I took the job anyway. They never paid me the last payment, but I had an algorithm in the code, where a certain (very obscure) name, if entered into the database, would cause the whole system to lock up. When they didn't pay me, I had a friend walk onto the lot and give them the secret name. The next day I got paid

What makes you think JPop is not involved? Bill has said it's in his licensee contract that he's going to hire/pay JPop. Nobody knows the exact detail of the agreement anyway. In all likelihood, JPop/Zidware still owns all the intellectual property and Pintasia simply has a license -- we don't even known if it's exclusive. JPop could sell as many licenses to the game as he did pre-orders for all we know. Until the actual contract between Zidware and Pintasia is made public, it's foolish for anybody to assume anyone but JPop is in control of things.

The big problem with the whole deal seems to be that JPop always had to have things done his way. He's surrounded himself with sycophants and cast out anyone who criticized him. Why should the deal with Pintasia be any different? This could simply be a shell game.

Bill appears to be a decent person - I have nothing against him, but he's avoided discussing the exact terms of his deal with Zidware, and that's absolutely critical if anybody wants to know to what degree JPop is involved and still profiting from the new shell.

I'm sure you're a very nice guy - I have nothing against you, but statements like this are why it's honestly, really hard to be sympathetic to some in this predicament. There is zero indication this game can be made in any decent amount of time, even for the double-sized amount of money Bill is claiming. The "purplewood" proto is nowhere near being finished. Bill hasn't pledged the money needed to make the machine -- he's simply fronted a little money to make the prototype semi-presentable. I understand to you all this appears to be light years of progress, but to the rest of us, it's still a very shady situation.

I think your first priority shouldn't be to worry about whether this game will get made. Even if all the other pieces were in place, it would probably still take years to produce the game. If I were you, I'd worry about getting your money back. The time to get reimbursed is right now, while there are still assets. If you wait around, distracted by the shiny lights, by the time you realize this game isn't going to appear any time soon, you'll have lost your chance to get your money back.

Obviously, there are people right now who are still wanting to deal with JPop, thinking they'll get made right. I still haven't heard a good reason why there isn't a more aggressive campaign to pursue criminal charges. It's an interesting demographic of people Zidware managed to hoodwink, that are still at this late juncture, unwilling to admit the reality of the situation.

This is so DEJA VU.... everybody is so enamoured with the "purplewood" that they're willing to ignore the reality that each and every moment that goes by without an aggressive campaign to get people their refunds, that money is drying up and will never materialize.

But I digress, how about that artwork! Awesome! Great job Zombie!

It's an interesting, neat game, but it's hard to look at it and not be overwhelmed by it being a symbol of exploitation.

The technical term now is, "PURPLEWOOD."

A game with finished artwork, but lacking most of the mechanical features. That's a "Purplewood."

This is a noble goal.

HOWEVER, nobody really knows what the details are between JPop and Pintasia. There's talk John is "out of it" but then there's also talk "he's a consultant and will be paid a salary." The idea that John Papadiuk would receive even a single penny extra at this point before any of the customers and suppliers are made whole is something that almost everybody finds extremely offensive.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty important sticking point upon which any impression of the "goodwill" Pintasia claims they have will be judged. Post the details of the licensing arrangement between Pintasia and Zidware. One simple action, which everybody wants to see, will once and for all let everybody know where JPop and Bill and everybody stands. Simple request. Constantly ignored. You too, should be cautious to do business with someone when you don't know what deal they have with a guy that has screwed you over.

Who really has power and control in the development of MG? We do not know. Bill says he has it, but he won't outline the details, and so many people have been lied to it's foolish to assume anyone is telling the truth without evidence. This has less to do with Bill and more to do with common sense and history/experience. But Bill has repeatedly refused to detail the licensing agreement, so there is some legitimate reason to be apprehensive. If it really is all about "helping out the community" why should the licensing agreement be secret? Everybody is tired of secrets. If you want to be trusted, no more secrets

Um, yea, that would be like cancelling Firefly.

Unfortunately, that group also appears to be devoid of people who saw what you guys didn't see. I think the last thing the buyers need, is to be in another "reality distortion sphere."

If you're in that group communicating with Bill, the first thing y'all should do is ask to see the exact contract between Pintasia and Zidware. Not an "outline." The exact deal. Everything else spawns from that arrangement. To proceed without knowing its exact details doesn't seem prudent.

Approximately 6 messages earlier, #14106, a guy named, Mr68 made the following statement:

"That's exactly why the owners group was formed on Facebook. "

Therefore it seems reasonable to conclude:

1. The group consists primarily of "owners"
2. "Owners" are people who pre-paid for the game(s)
3. People who pre-paid for the games thought the games were going to be made, and they were going to get a game in accordance with what they were promised
4. That turned out to not be true.
5. The decision to pre-pay and support a guy who never realistically had the means to deliver what he promised was ill-conceived.
6. Lots of people suspected this would happen, but the owners circled their wagons and didn't listen to anybody but themselves.

The fact that you even call the people, "owners" is indicative of a fundamental continued misunderstanding of the situation you all are in.

You're not "owners" of anything. What do you own? What did you buy? Where is it? You're still talking like there's something of yours somewhere, when there isn't. You all are victims, not owners.

When you get machines made and delivered, then you are "owners."

No disrespect. I'm just suggesting, you all might benefit from less circling of the wagons and more "listening to the noise."

The reason this situation went on for 3-4 years is because it was all "in private groups." If there were more transparency there's no doubt a lot less people would have lost money, and once again, you're suggesting that you all move back into the shadows to continue to find a solution?

People who do business in the shadows shouldn't be surprised when they find out they've been dealing with shady characters.

Anything that is legitimate, should be able to withstand the scrutiny of the community.

I think you nailed it.

I've been wracking my brain trying to reconcile the crazy repetitive scandals that seem to happen around here with regularity, and I remember there being a psychological explanation for this type of behavior: The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

You gotta wonder why, over and over, people with no real skill or experience producing machines are so convinced they can do it? This is apparently a pretty common thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others."

"As David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude: 'The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.'"

Pretty interesting reading... Clearly JPop was an example of the low-end of the DK-effect. But there are also examples of highly-skilled people expecting others to match their level of productivity and not realizing that's not always practical.

Another interesting thing about this community is how many people have trouble separating their sense of self, from their beliefs. If someone criticizes something they are into, they take it personally. I think this is a source for a lot of unintended conflict in general around here. I don't know exactly how to address or fix it, but I guess being aware of this minefield may help.

...You're comparing the people who pre-ordered MG/RAZA/AIW to Warren Buffet?

I understood your point.

I don't think you understood what others have been saying, over and over.

You think anybody could have fallen into the JPop trap and therefore we all need to cut you some slack?

Unfortunately, it's not true. I'm not trying to be arrogant, honestly. This is the denial many of you guys are still in.

The fact is, the problems with the JPop deal that you have now come to realize were there from the very moment of the deal.

He NEVER had the capacity to produce those machines.. not since day one.

Most of the community here realized it, but you all didn't want to listen to your peers, friends and fellow enthusiasts, so y'all shut yourself off in a private sphere told yourself how awesome this was going to be.

Your mistake wasn't so much giving a bunch of money to JPop, it was not listening to the community. And you still don't want to listen to the community. You still cluster in little circles telling yourselves this thing can happen if you give Pintasia a chance. The new guy is not in any better a position than JPop was, and you don't want to hear it. You think you're frustrated? Imagine how the rest of us feel watching some of you guys run around in the same circle over and over?

Go back and look at the posts.

Where was JPop's manufacturing facility? Where was an assembled committed team? It was never there in the beginning unlike JJP. What resources did he have other than the pre-order money to get anything done? Why did the whole thing have to be done in secret? I posted numerous messages many years ago questioning the rationality of pre-ordering and you all screamed at me

Do you think for a minute, if his operation was not confined to the dark shadows of private groups, among people who were legally-obligated to not say anything, that the end result would have been the same?

And you call me delusional?

You guys are still stroking each other. PDX, your buddy, has been lying to everybody about how far along the game has been, and you're still in denial.

I recognize futility when I see it. I apologize for thinking even after all you've been through, you might be willing to pay a little more attention, but I was wrong. I won't waste any more time trying to be the voice of reason here. I can tell it's clearly not appreciated.

But hey, if you really want to show me up, then go all in dude. All the "owners" take out all their life savings and give it to Bill, and sign that document that says you can't sue him. I'm sure that'll work out wonderfully, and I'm totally wrong and delusional.

BBB is not a good example. First, Gene Cunningham is now bankrupt and has lost everything. The guy who made that machine is not in a better place because of it, and even after, he was still hated by a big segment of the community. No good deed goes unpunished around here.

Second, BBB was a fully-completed game, there were 10 completely-finished versions of the game in existence. The software and everything was done. Gene had the MPU boards already done and a good bit of the parts. Gene was also rich and threw a ton of money into it, and it still took years, and almost ruined him in the process.

You can't compare JPop to Illinois Pinball. Gene was an entrepreneur and had a lot more experience. JPop is just an artist/designer who never really achieved anything of significance (as far as I know) outside of being part of a large team of people. There wasn't any evidence he knew how to run a large scale business. There wasn't any evidence he had any of his own money he was willing to put into the venture.

That being said, even though Gene's had more experience, more money, and his project was better-conceived, more practical and further along, it still took him many years to deliver the games to customers. And in the end he still went bankrupt. Yet people think a guy with only a fraction of the resources can do the same?

What gets me is people like Mr68 want to call me "delusional" because I'm bringing this up? I haven't called anybody names.

I haven't referred to JPop as "Jpoop" or called the owners "stupid." I've simply suggested, it's worthwhile to field opinions from everybody, and considering how wrong the owners were in their decisions, it might be prudent to give credibility to the people who saw this debacle for what it was. And for saying that, I'm called "delusional?" If that isn't irony, I don't know what is.

preorder3.png

Yea, there's clearly illegal activity here. You pay for a product. You never got it. Money crossed state lines so there are federal crimes as well. Wire fraud, etc. I don't understand how JPop has managed to make his victims so docile they're unwilling to get aggressive in pursuing criminal investigations? Maybe this is kind of like a gas station not putting any condoms or sex toys in the machine in the men's bathroom? The people who get ripped off are too ashamed to make a big stink about it? I don't know. I can't seem to explain why there isn't more outrage and an aggressive attempt to go after JPop criminally.

I'm curious if there's one thing most everybody by now can agree on?

We've seen what kind of game is created when JPop has all the control and responsibility, so can we not refer to games like ToM, TOTAN, CV, WCS, etc. as "JPop games?" Those great games were created by a complete team of people who worked together, took turns respecting each others' area of expertise, compromised and collaborated within a very large company that had been "doing things right" for decades

It seems obvious now, a game "made by JPop" at best, comes out to be an incomplete, un-produced, half-assed conceptual prototype. There's no reason for the Bally/WMS games that he was involved in to suffer the disgrace of his legacy. Many, many great people worked on those games that had nothing to do with MG/RAZA/AIW etc.

How is it not a crime, in fact both a local and a federal crime to take peoples money for a product, and not deliver the product? And take money across state and international boundaries using various networks like USPS and the Internet? Isn't that wire fraud?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_and_wire_fraud

Mail

18 U.S.C. § 1341 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Wire

18 U.S.C. § 1343 provides:

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Honest services

18 U.S.C. § 1346 provides:

For the purposes of this chapter, the term “scheme or artifice to defraud” includes a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services.[3]

Elements

There are three elements to mail and wire fraud:

Intent;
A "scheme or artifice to defraud" or the obtaining of property by fraud; and,
A mail or wire communication.[4]

To be fraudulent, a misrepresentation must be material.

Mail fraud applies only to United States domestic mailings and use of interstate carriers (UPS, FedEx) which must originate in one state, and successfully terminate pursuant to the address label inside another state, a transportation that is termed "interstate" (over which Congress has power to regulate) and does require that the mailing cross at least one state line into another state; wire fraud has been expanded by Congress to include foreign wire communication or interstate connections via (e.g.) an e-mail server or telephone switch or radio communication.

This is the key. If enough people complain, they will pursue criminal charges. This is how it works these days. Including the FBI.

In fact, if any individual people wanted their money back, chances are if they were making a big enough stink, JPop would probably pay them off to stop. This happens all the time. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Is that really what the contract people signed said? Maybe someone should post the original agreement and we can see if that's actually the case?

I find it disappointing that someone can get away with something like this and most people are like, "Meh, what can you do?"

There are always ways to get justice or get your money back. It depends upon whether you're going to let yourself be railroaded or not.

There's a good argument to let it go, but the problem is, that enables the scammers and the horrible people. They count on people being too distracted, lazy or non-confrontational to go after them.

John's wife is listed as the secretary of the company. She appears to be formally associated with the recordkeeping and a culpable party. Does she work somewhere? Why don't you call call her employer and explain what's going on? I'd be sending letters everywhere. He wants all this to go away, pulling his web site down and hiding, waiting for everybody to forget. And the way things are going, it looks like that's what's going to happen... Nobody really believes he's broke. There are perfectly legal ways to drive home the point that you refuse to be defrauded and best be refunded.. NOW.

Then again, you can just sit and wait and not do anything. But, there were people that hounded John and got their money back. Every day that passes, the chance of being made right gets a little less likely.

Take a look at sites like

http://www.ripoffreport.com/

There are lots of these online where you can post details of your experience with him and his company and it'll stay there. Other people chime in and collaborate to seek justice. There are lots of places like this online designed to help victims organize and fight fraud.

The exception doesn't prove the rule. Every day we use plenty of services that the government provides, from public utilities to interstates, roads and bridges, running water, sewerage, libraries, community centers, fire departments, etc. If you're out at sea and something happens, the Coast Guard will rescue you, etc. Not all parts of government are corrupt and useless.

She is listed as an officer of Zidware.

Anyone know if she was drawing a salary too?

I've been working more than full time. I don't regularly draw a salary. It's not unheard of. And in the past I've not paid myself so I could pay my employees. That's not uncommon. A good CEO puts the business before his personal needs.

I've been involved in start-ups for decades. You don't have to be rich to not draw a salary. Most people in start-ups are actually very poor. A lot of people in start-ups work day or part-time jobs to pay the bills. They just need enough money to survive, and they pour everything else back into the company.

What's funny is, because of JPop's business model, because he fleeced his customers instead of getting a legitimate investor, he was able to operate the way he did. If he actually had an investor, the investor would never have allowed him to draw a big salary - it's antithetical to the concept of a start up. You start a company to get paid when it performs, not while it's getting started.

One of the reasons for the dot-com bust in the 2000s was because people lost sight of how start-ups are supposed to be. They got big investment money from VC firms looking to fleece idiots in the market via IPOs, and these over-funded companies spent more money on their office furniture and their salaries than they did creating viable products. It seems to me JPop thought he was back in the year 1998. I wonder if he even bought himself an Aeron chair? LOL

Full disclosure: I own an Aeron chair. I bought it from the bankruptcy auction of etoys.com.

My guess is $60k/yr, but I bet he charged a ton of stuff on the "company card" also.

It's worth $500 just to get a look at the discovery documents. I bet the stuff he spent money on is going to make Van Halen's rider look boring. For all we know he might have commissioned a "Michael Jackson style" painting of him on a golden throne with a magic wand. I predict the best is yet to come.

Ha ha.. You think JPop is the only source of income/resources in that family? Have you guys done any freakin' research at all into who you're dealing with?

By the way, just because somebody lives in a big house, doesn't mean they pay a mortgage. Just because someone drives a nice car, doesn't mean they bought it themselves. And even if they have nice stuff like that, it doesn't mean they have the cash flow to go out and regularly buy high-dollar stuff. Some people in start-ups may have nice places because they previously invested well. If I pour all my time and cash into a startup, it doesn't mean I also have to live in a tiny house. It just means I'm not going to use the start-up's capital to live large. I may have income and resources from other avenues available. This is very common. Y'all need to realize that not everybody structures their life and personal assets the way you do. Some do it worse, and some do it better.

It's too bad LinkedIn doesn't have a "FRAUD" skill. I'm sure there are several hundred people who would easily vouch for John and his wife's expertise in that area.

I am going to go out on a limb here and think perhaps you don't have much "start-up" experience. If you're the PRINCIPAL in a start up, salary is not the motivation nor the need. The shares in the company are the real value. In a case like Zidware, where the ONLY material assets they had was the pre-order money, it's abso-F'ing-lutely INSANE and STUPID to draw such a huge salary. That pretty much guaranteed the games were never going to be made unless John planned to climb a giant beanstalk and pick from a money tree in the clouds.

This is the reason you don't pull a ridiculous salary in a start-up: It can keep the company from accomplishing its objectives! If you need $7500 a month to pay your bills, then you should NOT be in a start-up!

This whole situation is beyond incompetent.

Not everybody is cut out to be an entrepreneur. It's a very stressful, often thankless job. And every entrepreneur needs other people who are just "worker bees" which are absolutely necessary to make the venture succeed. Any good leader will tell you it's not about them; it's about their people, the vision. So don't feel like a failure. If you work somewhere, you're part of that machine that makes things work. It's unfortunate our society doesn't place as much emphasis on the workers because they're more important than the figureheads usually.

I'm really curious what amazingly/special/unique skill a "pinball designer" has?

At this point Ben Heck has probably designed as many pinball machines as John Papadiuk.

And Ben probably has 20x the depth of skillsets JPop has.

So what exactly makes him such a rare commodity? What can JPop do that anyone else here cannot?

I can pull up a CAD program and design a playfield, and then move things around.

I can bat a ball around on a whitewood and say, "let's put a pop bumper over there and a flipper up there."

I can dictate a ruleset.

Almost anyone in this forum, if they had the resources traditional designers had at their fingertips: software people, dot matrix designers, mechanical engineers, art departments, etc. could also design a pinball machine.

So exactly what special unique ability do these three dozen people have? Enquiring minds want to know.

Was his wife drawing a salary too? She is listed as a company officer.

I still do not understand why people are worrying about a civil case. What JPop did was clearly criminal. It'll take years for any civil justice, but a criminal investigation could motivate him to give money back to buyers or else face jail time.

With all due respect Bill, thanks for helping and trying, but even if the prototype was 100% done, there was never much of a chance the game would be manufactured. That still requires a huge amount of money that nobody in their right mind was going to cough up. The project was doomed from the start. It was great what you did, but it shouldn't have been a surprise that this project was DOA from the moment you looked at JPop's books.

I think you got attacked because you jumped on board a sinking ship and told everybody else to sit still while you helped the captain pack his luggage...

You can't blame Pinside for this. You stepped in a steaming pile of dog doo and paraded around telling everybody else they were wrong for not being pleased with the scent..

It may have been a nice thing you did, but you fail to realize you were hoodwinked by John just like everybody else, to do a bunch of last-minute damage-control because of his irresponsibility. And apparently you're so enamored with the guy you still won't hold him accountable. Don't blame everybody else here because we're not as smitten with the con man as you.

Another thing to consider is that JPop really cannot claim ignorance or incompetence. Not when you look at his public post history, where he chastized other pinball manufacturers and people for not having the resources to make machines. He clearly stated before that he was fully-aware how difficult it is to produce a game. So I think in court he'd get his butt handed to him by his online testimony that would contradict his current claims. It seems to me there's overwhelming evidence of intent to defraud. That is criminal. Money crossing state and international lines ups the ante. There are plenty of reasons for there to be a criminal case. If people want their money back, all they have to do is get that going. I'm sure JPop would much prefer to live poorly than in prison.

I've never seen anybody mangle so many metaphors.

Hole'up.. Imma gonna fire up my JPop-to-English translator here and see if we can figure out what he really meant:

"Although some may feel that if we are not posting then we are all sitting around driving our Beemers to Starbucks.

"I know that 'sitting around driving' doesn't seem to make any sense, but actually I've invented a new car seat that spins around while taking you to the nearest coffee shop. I can't go into more details until I've finished spending $20,000 filing a patent on it. So if you see me at Starbucks, know that I'm working on important technology."

"And By 'we' I mean, me and my ego. And my ego would never fit in a BMW and drink something so common as coffee. You guys have no idea about us."

Not so and I feel very slighted as I work harder than most everyone I know.

"I worked last night almost to eleven! That p.m.! Spinal Top isn't the only one that goes up to eleven. That's very hard!"

While people are at home watching football or sports today, I am in the studio (as every day) working on pinball in it’s totality. Something I love to do.

"I'm writing a screenplay called, 'Pinball In It's Totality'. It's the story of a brilliant pinball designer, who drops out of high school after flunking out of English, with a dream of creating the most-best pinball game that ever was rugged, but he is persecuted by common people who like football or sports. It's bad enough being persecuted by one group of people, but both football fans and sports fans are too much for the brilliant pinball designer and he has to go on a magical quest to protect his kingdom by making an arteous journey through a verocious forest of haters in order to acquire the mystic shield of asset protection. Along the way he befriends a group of rag-tag adventurers looking for their courage, heart and brains who help him. I can't tell you more until after its copywrited, but I am pre-selling tickets to the first show."

I know it takes a huge effort to do this all,

"When I say 'huge' I mean like it takes a solid three inches of effort. Most people only have about two inches of effort. I know. I've been around. I teach classes on this stuff. Three inches is like 50% more effort than most people."

as well as the fine support from my fans, and am up to the task.

"Today's task will be to take Zombie's artwork, draw a lightning bolt on it, and take it to 'Deck the Walls' in the mall and get it professionally-framed for the office. This is how I give back to my fans. You're welcome. You're very welcome. Yes, I will probably be selling limited editions of that, my artwork. Yes, you can pre-order it with a check. Sorry no Paypal."

Case and point, how do we fill in spare time. Eating crickets….no.

"Did you know that spare time is measured in cases and points, and not crickets? This is why I'm John Popadiuk, the most famous pinball designer of them all. I spend all my time making sure all cases are pointed so you don't have to. Other pinball designers might be 'eating crickets' with their spare time, but I am busy pointing cases and casing points so that Magic Girl will be the most amazing game you've ever seen. All our cases and points are CUSTOM MADE, just for YOU. Again.. you are welcome."

Well we fill it with more invention, design and new ideas.

"Screenplays, spinning BMW seats, pointed cases, cased pointers, professionally-framed artwork! I don't care if you're a football fan or a sports fan, we will blow you away with our inventions, design and new ideas! But, sorry, there will be no crickets. I don't do crickets."

More than is really possible.

"Yes, you heard right. I, John Papadiuk, routinely achieve the impossible. In fact this morning, I actually was up at the Crack Of Don. Are other designers up at that crack? I don't think so."

Pinball building takes oodles of time, a week seems like a day.

"I may have slipped up and revealed another one of my soon-to-be-patented inventions: the Magic time-brain-dilation-zidmatron, which can take a week, make it seem like a day, yet suggest that it feels like more than a day and somehow makes sense. Don't try to understand it. It's one of the many things that are not really possible that I can do."

I may not get to emails for a while as I average 125 each day or more.

"I apologize if I do not respond sooner. But I'm involved in some very important business discussions with my new Nigerian parts supplier, DR PEPPER OJ RUMSFELD OBAMA. I'd love to tell you more about the exciting new business venture Zidware is engaged in, but it's secret and I can't let any of my competitors find out."

We now have 6+ other makers of some type of custom pinball (I was the only one 2 years ago)

"Now that there are four other 'makers of custom pinball' this explains why my game is being delayed. I had to take some time away from building MG, RAZA and AIW to teach those other guys how to make pinball machines. It's what I do. I'm John Papadiuk. I give back to the community. You're welcome."

, and most of them are using the old WMS style of cabinet and cabinet fittings.

"Those idiots are relying on parts designs that have stood the test of time, are cheap, well made and easily available..."

We also talked about this back at the start, but decided to spend the time and money creating our own look, brand, design and cabinet features. I am very pleased.

"We on the other hand, have decided to 're-invent-the-meal' and are brewing our own entirely new, much more expensive, unproven cabinet design that will take much longer to produce assuming we can find someone to produce it. I will then spend another $20,000 to patent this custom design in order to please myself. I like pleasing myself. I am very pleased."

At this time we are having the pinball cartons designed and some samples being made.

"Once I have a sample pinball carton designed, I will stand before it and bask it the glory of its designer, pull out a lamp I bought at Goodwill, and ask the magic genie inside to reproduce those cartons and fill them with the most amazing pinball machine you've ever seen. For I am John Papadiuk, doer of things that are more than possible!"

A pro box for a pro game. Again something not hugely riveting but still 2 companies with a small design team to accomplish this.

"It takes two companies with a small design team to produce a cardboard box. So don't you criticize me. Have you ever made a 'Pro Box(tm)' Check-mate. I rest your case!"

Similar for some other items and things we are doing, the future of pinball. Our future as a hobby.

"I appreciate your faith in me and my ability to represent the future of pinball. As you can see, there's every chance I will let you down, but that's likely to happen because I am John Papadiuk, I work to eleven, get up at the Crack of Don, and I just got a new rug for my office! The future of pinball is safe and in my hands."

Obviously patents need to be protected, and we felt with our new light system it was worth the time and effort.

"One of my biggest fans is my patent attorney. If you all could see what he sees, you'd understand why I do what I do. It's worth it. He gets me. He understands why this technology is important and he spends a lot of time and effort too."

Especially for the coming years ahead and some of the game themes we want to do or people we want to partner with.

"Ok, I'm sorry. I have no freakin' idea what I am talking about. For a moment there I drifted off and was thinking about cream corn. Why is it so tasty? Why has there not been a 'Creamed Corn'-themed pinball machine? Oh wow. I smell pre-order #4 cooking! Oh wait, where was I? "

In this case there are dozens more “secrets” behind the scenes we keep quiet, and some really big negotiations in the works and off the blog for good reasons.

"You can see why it's important to keep these things secret. I've already said too much and given away too much of our great, unique ideas: cardboard box to put the game in, different leg bolts that cost five times more than regular ones, our Nigerian government partner, and an industry-first cricket-free pinball game! I've said too much. This e-mail will self-destruct in both 5 or 211,783 seconds."

All of this is important to what we are doing and reflected in the game design ultimately. It’s just not about a playfield.

"Playfields are soooo overrated. I invite you to marvel at the design of our 'Pro Box(tm)'. Yea, we did that. Who else has a Pro Box(tm)? Custom made cardboard. Sample. Going to be many more. You're welcome."

So for me the quiet time, which is no blogging, is full of work, invention and design. We never stop creating and the Mac computers we use are but a tool and not the source of our genius. Chirp…Jpop"

"I like the quiet time. That's when my wife goes to sleep and I get to watch Nick at Night. It's the source of our genius: Pro Boxes, time-brain-dilation-zidmatron, spinning seats, creamed corn, zombies, jesus, alice in wonderland, crickets.. HA! Fooled you. Still no crickets! Case And Point. You're welcome."

That's their prerogative, but this is also what enables the scammers to keep scamming.

I continue to be amazed at how many people are willing to write off such a huge loss, especially to someone who really didn't ever seem serious about making good on his promises.

There are some battles that are worth fighting. This seems one of them.

For all we know, Zidware is still taking deposits from unwitting people who aren't aware of the situation.

So according to Jack, poor, poor, JPop.. it was "negative posts" that caused his downfall? WTF? Doesn't anybody take any frickin responsibility for stuff?

There are posts all over the Internet with JPop telling people how hard it is to design pinball games and how much resources are needed. He knew from day one what he was doing. He may live in a fantasy world where money grows on trees, but he occasionally poked his head out of the weeds to lecture other people on how he was more experienced than they.

It's getting harder and harder to believe what anybody says in this industry the way they all circle their wagons and accuse their own customers of being the persecutors.

So y'all remember, it's not their fault they didn't deliver what they promised. It's our fault because we had the audacity to complain about it. It's our fault we found questionable issues with backroom deals and business associates with dubious, criminal pasts. How dare we question what's behind that curtain? We destroyed JPop's life! We shoulda just kept giving him more more money, and never complain, but we screwed up!

I saw the same thing. VERY odd that JJP is defending JPop. If JJP is solvent and capable, why would he be defending someone who wasn't? The first thing I'd be saying is, "Sorry about what happened to JPop but he, unlike my company, didn't have a plan and didn't have the proper resources to take products to market."

My guess is... his lawyer has advised him to keep cranking out progress reports so it doesn't look like his primary attempt was to defraud people. It's very clever. Especially given his customers have been so emasculated they're unwilling to lobby for criminal charges. What a shame. People keep calling JPop an idiot, but it's turning out that he's smarter than his customers. If he took my money, I'd be calling the Illinois Attorney General every day until they launched an investigation.

There were signs something was screwed up from day one. Requiring customers to sign a non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreement? To buy a pinball machine?

The writing was on the wall that something was way off. And now seeing the prototypes, what's there that was so secret? Woo Hoo. He designed a new cabinet that is less-functional and more expensive than the one the industry uses. Hold the stampede of other companies rushing to copy it! Look! Magnets! He's got magnets everywhere! Wow, who woulda thought??

Even as he cranks out AIW progress reports, looks like he ripped off Pat Lawlor's TZ battle-the-power mini-playfield.

And now JJP is apologizing for JPop? This industry gets weirder and weirder.

Meanwhile Gary Stern is probably laughing his ass off, building an underwater secret lair complete with laser beam death rays...

I don't think anybody here ever gets a free pass.

You think Ben and Jack's comments are comparable? Really?

You realize it's about WHAT they said, not that they said something.

If Ben started suggesting it was the pinball community's fault that JPop failed, he'd be heavily criticized too.

LOL.. that's not an "apology."

"I'm sorry you didn't understand what I meant." "I'm sorry you were confused or upset."

He's not sorry he said anything. He's sorry we don't 100% agree with him.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology

A non-apology apology is a statement that has the form of an apology but does not express the expected contrition. It is common in both politics and public relations. It most commonly entails the speaker saying that he or she is sorry not for a behavior, statement or misdeed, but rather is sorry only because a person who has been aggrieved is requesting the apology, expressing a grievance, or is threatening some form of retribution or retaliation.

An example of a non-apology apology would be saying "I'm sorry that you feel that way" to someone who has been offended by a statement. This apology does not admit that there was anything wrong with the remarks made, and additionally, it may be taken as insinuating that the person taking offense was excessively thin-skinned or irrational in taking offense at the remarks in the first place. Another form of non-apology is one which does not apologize directly to the person who was injured or insulted, but instead offers a generic apology "to anyone who might have been offended."[1]

Statements that use the word "sorry" but do not express responsibility for wrongdoing may be meaningful expressions of regret, but such statements can also be used to elicit forgiveness without acknowledging fault.[2]

Look, I am a fan of JJP. I'm a WOZ owner and I love the game.

What bothers me more than anything else is this annoying attitude of, "You're-either-with-us-or-you're-against-us" that a lot of people including Jack and JPop have. Like they expect people to be total sycophants or else they're haters. The reality is somewhere in the middle. We can like what they do that's good, and dislike when they make mistakes. I'm no "hater."

I consider myself more of a "realist" who isn't afraid to say when something doesn't look right. Anybody in any business that feels a need to surround themselves exclusively with people who tell their their sh*t doesn't stink can't be that good of a businessman. You have to take the good with the bad. You have to admit when you screw up.

Take responsibility for stuff, and stop calling the community a bunch of "haters" because they're stating the obvious.

Zidware is a total disaster. There's no other way around that.

JJP is a great company that has a promising future and has produced a very good product. But their public relations is pretty crappy. If I point that out, I'm not a "hater", I'm saying, Hey here's a problem that you can address if you'll stop treating everyone who is offering constructive criticism like they're an enemy who wants to dance on your grave. It's not the case.

OMG.. that's hilarious.. I wonder if he can use that defense? "Silly people, I never said I was going to give you a machine. I was giving you the 'design'. It's up to you to produce the game.."

Perhaps the problem here is everybody was supposed to be doing it along with him, kinda like this guy...

"Now grab your pop bumper and try this...."
bob ross.jpg

The people he has defrauded have obviously not made any impact on him. So he's going to continue to do what he's doing. PT Barnum would be proud.

If it were me, I'd have called everyone he's doing business with. There'd be an aggressive campaign to pursue criminal charges. I'd have put flyers on all the telephone poles around the neighborhood, "Have you seen this man? He claims to have been selling pinball machines but he takes peoples money and delivers nothing!" I'd call the landlord of the building he's in and let him know that the guy is being sued and is defrauding people of money and claims he's broke.

But... until then, he's going to carry on. Makes you wonder whether crime really does pay.. at least in the hobby of pinball?

There's nothing to indicate he's crazy. Obviously he's got narcissistic personality disorder big time. But there's no real reason for him to do anything since nobody's really appearing to seek proper justice. There is no way what he's done is not criminal. Forget about civil suits. The real action is in lobbying for a criminal investigation. It's the only way to get him to bust out the money he's siphoned away from the corporate shell. If the victims go after him in civil court, the lawyers make all the money. If the victims go after him for criminal charges, he'll pay them off directly to keep from going to jail. I guarantee he'll find the money to pay back those he defrauded if the alternative is jail time for him and his wife.

We all know where things are going to go in the civil case. If people want their money back, they need to be petitioning the attorney general and the local media to get on the case.