All this talk about artwork.. typical for a jpop game. I've owned and sold TOTAN, CV and Ep1; never had any interest whatsoever in owning a ToM. I kept WCS94, it's fun, happy and cheap. CV was fun til I realized I spent the whole game shooting just three shots - ramp, left orbit and Ringmaster. Hopefully jpop can get some good gameplay in these new machines to go along with the killer artwork. Right now I'm skeptical, but hope to be proven wrong.

And before all the thumbs-downers go ballistic (Greg?) .. ask yourself: how often do jpop games get used in top-level tournaments? Aside from WCS94's incredible PAPA run and Trent's all-CV Ohio Show some years ago, the answer is basically never.

It's not about depth of rulesets... if that were the case, WCS94 would have hit the curb along with the other three. More about quality of play in general. CV appears to have all kinds of stuff to do at first glance, but after you own it a while, you realize over half the goals complete themselves as you're shooting for the three main branches: ringmasters, highwire and juggler. I really, really liked the presentation, music and art, but the game itself eventually got too "meh" to warrant it's 6K spot in my lineup. Buh-bye.

TOTAN was the same... got it back in 1999, loved the light show, music and art, but after a while realized the game was incredibly boring and sold it. I got it for 1K, sold for 3K and am amazed people will pay 5K+ for it these days. To each their own

Maybe it'll be the other guy...

So you guys (some of you) have bought a pinball machine that comes with an NDA that could potentially cost you many thousands of dollars in damages and legal fees?

I think I can definitely wait for the secondary market on these titles LOL

Dunno about greatest ever.. I've owned 4 of his games over the last 14 years, and have sold all 4 of them. WCS94 is probably his best (it lasted the longest here) .. TOTAN is beautiful but boring, CV is deep but clunky and has you shooting the same three shots over and over, and SWep1 is just bad. ToM never interested me.

I always got the impression JPOP was more interested in elaborate toys, magnet tricks and visual art, and not so much on actual gameplay.

I remember doing some quick math after hearing the original MG announcement.. 15 games at 12K each (or was it 12 at 15K?) .. anyway, ~$200K budget to design, build and ship a new machine completely from scratch? Not gonna happen

Frankly, anyone still in for MG (or RAZA or AIW or whatever else) should hope he sells hundreds, if not thousands, so there's actually money to get them done.

But fanning the flames is a pinside tradition

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BBB took two years from initial orders til the first units were shipped to Europe (to beat RoHS). Took one more year to build/ship all the domestic games. Late 2004 order, mid 2006 EU delivery, mid 2007 domestic delivery.

Yep, the games basically worked out of the box, and whatever issues were encountered were dealt with by the owners. I'd say at least half of the games weren't opened right away, so only 80-100 games up and running... back then most buyers knew how to fix minor problems, so it was a non-issue.

So is 1K officially junk bond status? Poor JPOP... but he kinda dug his own hole. Time to make games.

Having owned four of

Judging from John's library of WMS games, I would be VERY surprised if either MG or Zombieland is as exciting or challenging as Metallica. We will see... eventually.

Y'all need to send in those AIW installments so GLM can get paid

Sounds like he tried to disable comments and you found a workaround?

Had to hit the little down-thumb on this. There's every reason to panic. He has shown absolutely no ability or desire to get anything done.

I don't think you have to worry about kaneda... if John doesn't respond to his own blog, why would he even read this thread?

4th title... hee hee..

Remember, the prototype CV had the "gay" Ringmaster voice (play the proto at Expo when Cameron brings it). Totally different character than what we have now. Fortunately, someone DID pay to have that part totally restarted

kaneda isn't really doing anything beyond asking stupid questions. Problem is so many people dislike him they respond negatively and it turns into a shitshow.

Wait, what?? You know it would sell like hotcakes

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It looks like the video is mainly focused on the artist; perhaps he set the release date and John didn't know?

Double flips aren't redundant. Aside from anything else, they provide more space for the player to interact with the ball. Look at Big Game... over half of the width of the game is flipper, meaning the player is having to flip at the ball far more often than a narrower arrangement. Double flips without a wall behind the second flipper provide more challenge as you can drain between them. With games such as Paragon and Harlem, some shots are better taken from one or the other lower flippers. Shooting that droptarget from the bottom flipper might lead to drains, but from the upper it comes back much friendlier, etc.

For me, it wasn't so much game preference as his experience, or lack thereof. I knew John was doomed waaaay back when he made the very first Magic Girl announcement. I even joked to some buddies about seeing the dilbert 'cloud of doom' over his head. His math at the time was simply impossible - Magic Girl's price times number of units (limited) didn't come even close to covering what it would cost to develop and manufacture a new game. Especially once he started talkig new platform and newly designed parts all around. The fact he would even make such an announcement with his original figures proved to me beyond any doubt that John is no businessman, and pretty clueless about production.

I've watched this slow-motion trainwreck for the last three years and am really sad - it cannot end well. John seems like a nice guy, but he seems oblivious to the fact he's so far behind. The house is burning down and he's still gluing ramps together....

..and you had to read "all" the comics before coming to that conclusion?

Hopefully those were vendors that actually got paid

The non-owners feel almost as bad as you do over this crap It's your money so I know you feel worse. Just don't know any solution... need to find a way to light a fire under John's tush...

John (Zidware) is publicly traded?

You're assuming John could find 50-100 more people willing to spend sixteen grand on MG. Honestly, I think just about everyone who would do that, has already done that. 16K buys a lot of quality pinball... would you rather have, say, an EBD (2K), Spirit (5K), an AFM (6K) and a few good EMs? Or a Magic Girl? None of John's earlier games were exactly earth-shattering, so I don't understand this second-coming-of-Christ mentality around MG and RAZA....

What if you host a birthday party?

What if you take it to your kid's friend's birthday party?

What if you take it to a buddy's place for a weekend party?

What if you leave it at your office for fellow employees to enjoy for a few weeks?

What if you put your house up for sale and all the prospective buyers play it?

What if it never left its spot in your basement but you participate in and host a few leagues and it got played 1000 time a month?

What if Jpop spent half as much time working on games as he did legal nonsense....

I can see it now...

Zidware Patent #XXXXXXXX: Internet-enabled tilt bob!

Worried about your nasty old customers abusing their games and filing bogus warranty claims as a result? This new feature guarantees gentle play! Each tilt warning is transmitted directly to Zidware HQ in Chicago, IL, where Mr. John A. Popadiuk Jr. himself (or his dog) will note and record the violation. After any second warning, Zidware will send a sternly-worded letter to the owner demanding that they Settle Down Right Now and Stop Abusing the Game. Actual tilts will result in the game being locked-down and play disabled for one week. Slam tilts are grounds for repossession.

Players who disagree with this policy can file a Memorandum of Complaint directly with their local department of circular filing devices.

I agree with you here. However, I do want to point out that some of us (like myself) have used the term "doomed" to describe John's projects, but I certainly neither blame nor wish ill-will on anyone who ordered a game from him. I don't think any of John's customers are stupid. I do doubt many of them knew John really well when they ordered (outside of his library of games) or knew his history at WMS. I really hope these games get made, but hope and belief are two different things. Bottom line though is that fault lies with John, not his customers. He made the promises, now he has to deliver.

?? Where does this come from ??

Take away the magnet tricks and Cameron's CV rules, and John is about as mediocre as pinball designers come. Five games, none of which are really recognized for their gameplay... rather about artwork and toys. Hell, John Borg runs rings around this guy, and I used to be the biggest Sega hater. Popadiuk is great for inventing gadgets, and maybe directing artwork, but that's about it IMHO. I've owned 4 of those 5 games and can't say I miss one. Well, maybe WCS a little. Game is just so happy.

I'd say JM is the king of flow.

TOM flows well, TOTAN does to some degree but there's little to shoot at from the left flipper to maintain flow.

As for gameplay, it does kinda suck. The "vocal minority" are those who value gameplay above all else, and it's telling they have kept a near blanket ban on all non-WCS94 Popadiuk from tournaments. ToM has exploitable rules (left orbit), ToTAN is a trainwreck, although good for beginners. CV appears nice at first, until you realize you're only ever shooting half the playfield-- left orbit, ramp (and lock targets), and Ringmaster. SWep1... Williams' last game ever, sunset of the pinball titan, sells for just a smidgen over 2K, and it ain't all because of Jar Jar.

I'm not a random Popadiuk hater. I owned WCS94 for 14 years, Ep1 for 13, ToTAN for 3 and CV for 8. After playing those for so long, and comparing them to games like TZ and MM and STTNG (then), and Metallica, WOZ and STLE (now), they're (not) amazingly boring, but kinda boring... Blingy but boring.

2.0 helps a lot, but the game is still fundamentally broken. How many times do you deliberately shoot either end of the RM loop outside of multiball? How often do you deliberately shoot for Acrobats, or Menagerie? Half the playfield is rarely used.

Needs left orbit rules reworked to be less lucrative

This wouldn't change a thing, because all the points in TOTAN come from the lamp and bonus (when not exploiting HAREM bugs). This game was designed for beginners and the rules are just awful. 70K for mode shots when one can get 10M in bonus just by racking up spins and shooting the captive balls?

Yes, but in CV I found myself shooting nothing but the left orbit and ramp (and the lock targets on ramp misses). Raise a RM, start one of those three other multiballs (highwire, strike an ark, juggler), rinse/repeat. That will get you through the entire game. The center inserts for Menagerie, Spin, Sideshow, Boom and RM Frenzy just kinda happen along as you play...

The "rules" that require you to make all of 2 shots each to finish 4 of the jewel modes?

The "rules" surrounding the most basic main multiball ever in a WPC game?

The "rules" that let you play genie battle forever, scoring all the way?

The "rules" that make the left orbit only ever worth one award at a time?

Yea, great rules.... most system11 games outplay this turd turd.gif

You just described myself in 2002 (minus the topper), a couple years after I'd gotten TOTAN and back when I still enjoyed playing it. As you said, beautiful light show and great music. For some people, simple games are all they need. 12 years ago, that was good enough for me. Since then, I've found so many more, better-playing machines, that I don't see the point in just banging the ball around and shooting shots just to see them whip back at me, so to speak.

Current games: WOZ, Metallica, STLE... all relatively new, fresh and deep rulesets; all still unbeaten (I have not gotten to Enterprise Amok/5YM, End of Line or SOTR). I'm also digging some older games like Nineball, Big Game and Quick Draw. If you're going to bang a ball around, might as well do it on an EM where you can learn subtle shots like nicking the uppermost droptarget and rebounding the ball into the opposite-side kickout hole

Iron Man, Tron and BBH provide fast, challenging games that don't last a long time. I like Breakshot for its combination of DMD speed and EM gameplay. Pinball Magic is a great game for precision shotmaking... you can progress very quickly if you're on your game, and the tricks get harder the further you get. Jackbot is very tough to keep balls alive on for any length of time, and provides nice risk/reward with Casino Run. And then of course, the ultimate risk/reward game.. ACDC and its "holy f*ck I can't believe I just missed a 300M song jackpot%@#$^$!"

Yep, I agree. I forgot to mention TSPP and LOTR in my post - I have both of those, along with WOZ, and enjoy their deep rules and long gametimes. Sometimes. Other times I want fast and brutal.

One thing though, if I'm in the mood for a more simple game, I prefer to play one with an interesting playfield. TOTAN is a simple game but isn't very interesting to shoot. OTOH, Nine Ball is simple but provides a more unique playfield layout and nifty rebound opportunities. CV *could* be better if the software simply used all the shots more effectively.

Pinside wants to be everyone's mom. Soon we will have to post here to ask permission to go outside and play

Frankly, if John had my money, that's more than enough invite to go to his shop!

Can anyone shoot me the OH NOES GREAT HARM pic so I can see WTH everyone is discussing?

One ramp. Just like TOTAN: one entrance, many destinations.

Why?

People need to do their own research before plunking down money for anything. It's not the show promoter's job to underwrite the vendors who show up hawking wares. Anyone who ordered a Jpop game did so under their own volition, and they have no one to blame but themselves. Not trying to be mean, just tired of people trying to push the accountability for this mess onto others.

I've never sent a PM I'd be embarrassed to have posted in public.

Act like an adult and there's no problem. Looks like certain people should have breathalyzers on their keyboards...

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If zidware files (or is forced into) bankruptcy in the short term, any sales to pintasia would likely be reversed. Licensing would not, and pintasia would become another creditor if they paid zidware for anything. Barring some kind of settlement, zidware's assets would go up for auction, and pintasia (and anyone else) can bid on them.

Pardon my bluntness, Kevin and John are both idiots. Kevin for thinking he could slip a game or two .. hundred.. under Fox's radar, and John for having no production plans and thinking some magic pinball company would come bail him out.

Neither went into their respective projects looking to rip anyone off, but as the wheels fell off each train, the conductors started to get shady to prop up their failures. Both should have come clean far earlier than now, but ehh... humans hate admitting failure.

You expect people to make a 16K decision based on the game in its current state??

Just imaging shooting the TOTAN ramp and having it go to the left side return to flippers. That will give you an idea of the timing here (note: it's not fast). Hopefully the rules will not involve a lot of the squigglies. TOTAN only returned the ball to the left side occasionally.

Stupid and a bad business decision? Yea. Disgusting and human filth.. I'd relegate those terms for stronger crimes than being an inept businessman.

People will discuss what they want to discuss. Closing the thread would be a waste of time since someone would just start a new one.

Get that letter he posted (where he admitted there are no longer enough funds to make the games) in front of a judge in BK court and you may get an involuntary bankruptcy...

People voluntarily gave their money to Jpop. People don't volunteer to being mugged. There is a key difference.

John is not "free to go" - he will wind up in bankruptcy and lose some assets. He has also lost the respect of most pinball fans.

Most people who bought into jpop did so "years ago" as well. Just because someone bought a prototype does not necessarily give them priority in BK proceedings.

Zidware must be forced into bankruptcy ASAP so these "sales" can be undone and the assets returned to zidware for auction and distribution to creditors.

Who's house? You have quite a diversified bunch of people on here, and not everyone thinks in knee-jerk reactions like yourself.

Prior to this American Pinball thing, the chances of a MG, RZ or AIW buyer getting something to show for their investment was hovering right around zero. Nada. Zilch. Well's dry and not even lawsuits can make money out of air.

Now you have a company that claims it will try to make good on those old debts. Make the old games, build the brand. And they show more production than John was ever able to. Sure, there's a really good chance this will fall apart, but it looks like the chances for the aforementioned buyers to get *something* is now greater than zero.

I'd absolutely give these guys a stage at Expo. Let them either make good news, or bury themselves. It is NOT Expo's job to choose favorites between pinball companies (and I can't help but note you're a distributor whom American Pinball would be competing with). Running AP out of business before they can even start doesn't really help matters. Expo gave JPOP a stage and he happily used it to prove to the pinball community he had absolutely no clue. That was very useful information. People need information, and kicking companies out of Expo does not further that goal.

True, but I doubt he would have built the "non-special-zidware-but-practical" version we're seeing. His ego would be a major roadblock to such an undertaking

I'll take "people who know how to run a business" for a thousand, Alex.

Ask 'em those questions after they're done talking up Houdini at Expo.

The blurriness was intentional - they would not allow him a clear shot. Methinks they went DPRK on him and checked his phone before allowing him to leave...

If it's not answered by Expo, this should be the first question asked during their seminar. Any non-answer should be considered a "no" and people can decide if they want to support AP at that time.

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This is what happens when you continually try to police other peoples' actions. Just stop already.

No. I don't need Facebook to curate the content here. Just ready the good stuff and skip the crap. Facebook is not "the internet" and it's tiring to see people gravitate towards it like moths to a light.

Put up a poll and marvel at the results

Well hell, that's great! The people who want to be on Facebook are there, and the people who prefer Pinside are here!

So why are you still here?

You're relationship with your family and friends does not give you carte blanche to be a dick on the internet.

Upvote for creative adverb usage

Sounds like Greatwich's Stargazer playfields... I wonder if the MG fields were made by him or by using the same process? I'm real happy with my SG playfield; for $500 it's extremely nice and I have no complaints at all. Using that process in a $10K game, however, would be bad news...

Yea, so stop mentioning him already and talk about the game.

Y'all are hopeless

Didn't know that.. I don't keep up on drug terms.

Now y'all got the freakin mods going on this cereal/kaneda thing instead of the game. Chris owns all of you, best 20K he ever spent lol

Nice try Ted but I don't read threads backwards

So how hard is it to talk about the goods and not the messenger?

When folks talk about the news, they talk about the news and not about the news anchor...

Art looks really nice .. too bad the PF itself is such a rip off of TZ... Is there anything actually *original* in MG and not swiped from a prior JPOP or other game? Magic Girl is the K-TEL of pinball releases it seems...

So close to great pornstar nickname..

If they're serious, Robin/Martin/etc should make a separate thread and not bury THE PURGE in the bowels of this trainwreck...

I don't think Stern has ever produced a normal production game in quantities less than 500. There are 200 PMI BBBs + 13 originals.