Damn, I give my wife crap for watching all those 'reality' drama shows on TV - yet I just spent a couple hours reading through this thread - totally entertained.

From an outsiders perspective, and with TigerLaw in mind, I'll just say....that was a very interesting read!

Dude, you sure know how to hijack a thread. ...

Nice post Ice. Merry Christmas to you, and everyone else here on Pinside.

Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game.

Guess what? I can still post in this thread.

My take on this? I applaud those folks who took a risk and invested with Jpop. You have to REALLY support the pinball hobby to make such an investment. The pinball revival we are seeing now was paved by folks like these.

With that said, my personal opinion (based on what I've read here) is that Jpop vastly underestimated what it would take to complete this project. I think a few MG's may see the light of day, but beyond that, it's anyone's guess.

I honestly hope all owners get their games. I see this going one of two ways. If owners get their games, everyone wins and pinball sees another positive bump. If not, the pre-order model has been irrecoverably stained.

I disagree. At this point, my gut feeling is that if he doesn't show a playing version soon, his house of cards will crumble.

Great post Ice, and SO GLAD to hear some positive news finally.

Door's open bud. Let me guess, you're here because of a job.

John and Kevin both takin' the weekend off? (sorry, I couldn't resist)

I hope, for the sake of the investors (pre-orders) and the pinball community as a whole, that you are wrong. However, based on what limited information I've seen, it appears you may be correct....sadly.

Care to share?

OMG!! ...sorry guys, this whole thing is sad, especially for those who have invested so much.

..but wow...I'm 60 posts behind and ..this...this is f'ing low. This guy needs a perma-ban.

This is crazy. When I posted earlier that Kaneda should get a perma-ban, in no way did I ever imagine he actually was working with Zidware. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.

Did you see Kaneda's PR job for Zidware? You were gonna get your machine first!

Ohhhh, such a martyr.

If I remember correctly, the 'battle' started around the time of the DP rug reveal, vs JPop cabinet reveal at expo. And for him to say that Pinside (or the battle with Pinside) has done the most damage shows how out of touch he is with reality. He is the only one to blame for his customers being unhappy.

Production plan / Shipping dates.

Difference is, Jack refunded $$ when asked. ...and communicated.

EDIT: I'm obviously slower than most...

.

Ton's of digital artwork. Many, many revisions of said art.

I think once you've hit the point where lawsuits have started, it's over. ....sad for all.

My guess is that Bill does not want everyone to know how much he paid Jpop for the license. Hearing that Jpop got a big $$ payout, while simultaneously announcing 'the games won't get made' won't sit well with most.

I'm confused. Was it "no money", or "just enough to keep lights on and get the information needed"?

I anxious to see pics and vids from the show. I've never seen a $16,000 pinball machine before.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. if they had, someone would say "Omg, how dare you ask unpaid vendors for help". it's a no win situation at this point. that said, I'm glad to see an air of reconciliation - at least from some.

disclaimer: the statement above is my opion and should not be taken as fact. I am not an investor of Zidware or Pintasia.

Machine should be held by owners until bankruptcy proceedings determine auction.

OMG!!! ...he's more than delusional.

I was under the impression that part of the Pintasia deal was to get John current on his rent.

Bill already apologized for that, and stated that she was removed from the project early. ...seriously, I know everyone is upset, but people need to stop pointing fingers at each other and focus on the only true enemy here. Remember him, the one who stole about a millions $$'s?

...wow, I thought 'Pinballers' had a lot of drama.

What a blathering idiot. He can not see that all of his problems are of his own making.

Which he would probably sign and pass off as his own (see Zombie Yeti art).

Saw this and instantly thought of poop-a-deuce.

https://www.facebook.com/jakeparkerart/videos/1221480951236022/

+1

Is that a stripper on a pole near the right ramp? I don't remember any strippers in Houdini's act.

Yep, I bet you are right. I wonder what Chris at Cointaker thinks about all this...and how he will feel when the promise made to him of getting a MG is broken (yet again).

Of course, I'd love to be proved wrong...... but I bet I'm not.

Bill has been VERY quiet since the Houdini announcement that also mentioned delivering MG. My speculation is that jpop *conveniently* forgot to mention he no longer owned the rights to MG when he was working his deal with AP (and probably didn't tell them a lot of other stuff as well). Perhaps that's why Houdini was originally shown in a Zidware cabinet, yet that had to be yanked for expo. Unfortunately for AP, they didn't have time to get all the Z's off the Houdini parts, so it's obvious it's a zidware originated design/playfield.

I'm also speculating that Bills lawyers are talking with AP legal to try and get this worked out - hence the radio silence.

In the end, I think Iceman had the best advice - dump Jpop and start over from scratch. ....nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

I agree. ...and that makes me wonder how AP could possibly even consider giving Chris his MG at Expo (oh wait - that didn't happen.....shocker), or delivering all the rest by the end of this year. ...yeah, I'm not holding my breath for that either. I'm guessing jpop sold them on the "games are 75% done" lie.

Bingo! ...which leads me to question the "reputable" part.

Let's flip the argument. How could AP *NOT* be unhappy with jpop?

From all I've seen, AP and jpop made a deal. AP gets a 'nearly complete' Houdini, and in return AP will finish manufacturing MG and deliver it to all the original buyers - starting with Chris at Expo. That is what AP said when they announced Houdini. However, surprise, surprise - jpop doesn't own MG anymore, and Zidware is tied up in lawsuits. So when all that comes to light, AP has to scramble and get somethig to expo - so they strip as much Zidware from Houdini as they can...and bring just the playfield to expo (with little Z's all over). Then, at their expo talk, anytime someone asked about RAZA, AIW or any Zidware related item - AP's response was 'you will have to ask John'.

With all that, how could AP still be happy with john? How do they think this will play out? At what point will they realize they are better off if they just sever their ties with John and walk away from his liabilities?

...because of this.

I hope you got that in writing, because I would not trust John to uphold his end of the deal.

Seems a few folks missed this post from Robin.

You do know that John is not the artist, correct? I mean, it's only been said here about 100 times. Zombie Yeti is the artist - and if you look back you will see that he was not compensated completely for his contribution. Oh, and if you want to see more of his work - check out Ghostbusters.

My apologies then, as I have not heard any of these podcasts people keep mentioning. Is there anything special about them I should know? (....sorry I could not resist).

Wait, you just did that! ...or, is it only pompous when someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint? Seriously, this is a MESSAGE BOARD and people are going to express their opinions. I also think it's fair to call someone out when they are getting off-topic.

...ancillary at best. He owns one of JPOPS games....as do other folks. I think the better thread to discuss him (can we do that now?) is the wall street journal thread. ...yeah...I'm headed over there now.

DISCLAIMER: I have also appeared on said podcast, and have spoken to said person several times face to face, including a very nice dinner at Perry's - thanks again Chris!

...true.

It shouldn't. Those impacted have legal recourse. Some choose to take it (see Predator thread). Other's will say that throwing $$ at those filthy lawyers is just throwing good money after bad.

Yep, the current assumption is that jPoop exchanged his 'completed and ready to manufacture' Houdini in trade for AP to produce Magic Girl. So no $$$ actually changed hands. AP got burned in that deal, as jpoop's Houdini wasn't really 'ready', and they didn't anticipate the backlash. ....so they retrenched (very quickly BTW) and put out a new, and by all accounts pretty impressive Houdini of their own.

Of course, this speculation may be just as good or worse than any other.

+1 - congrats guys. It's been a LONG time coming.

Actually, no. He lost a civil case. As far as I know, there were no criminal charges filed.