I would suggest that if you don't want to or can't work on machines yourself to bail now and don't look back.
(Topic ID: 92436)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Gottlieb, 1948-
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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1 month later
Quoted from pinball_customs:On the RAZA blog there's quite a bit to leak actually, but I think most people are respecting the NDA.
Seriously though, is there no one on the RAZA waiting list? I'm trying to get a refund but it's pending a replacement buyer.
I might get it if MG was out and I saw the design elements for RAZA...get a machine out there JPOP!
Quoted from Strange:60 Magic Girls ain't shit. Come on now.
JPop should produce far more than that. Even if there needed to be some exclusivity with this pin you could have that with 500 made. They should cost 12K with partial refunds of course to those that paid more. To the original buyers bitching about more games being produced they should definitely be rewarded with something special added on top of the rest of the machines, like a rare alternate translite and cabinet art.
Zombie Adventureland needs to get bumped up too. Make that a cool 1000 units.
Want to wait years when production starts...it might take years to crank out 60!
1 month later
Quoted from TaTa:Talked to someone who was at JPops yesterday and still no flipping MG...let alone RAZA
Ruh roh! We'll see at expo...
Quoted from iceman44:These are just the cabs, why would we be upset? We know what's going in there!
I thought we might see a MG there........
Yeah...I thought for sure MG would appear. 
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Any idea when production will start?
I sure would like to see some cabinet artwork on Alice and Wonderland so I can tell if I should jump in.
You should...believe me! Darker AIW...hot Alice, yes please!
Quoted from Multiball1:As an MG owner I don't need an additional 25 games of MG being sold to keep the lights on, that's what the money from the RAZA owners is for....and for the RAZA owners they can be grateful for the AIW owners.
I can say it because I'm also a RAZA owner, but purely from a MG prospective what I'm saying is exactly the case.
That RAZA money is gone...time to build more MGs! Well, sell more anyways.
Quoted from rotordave:One thing I can't figure out, is why have the Mars Attacks alien on a game called Zombie Adventureland?
Is an alien a zombie? Not in my books ...
Is a zombie an alien? Hmmmm ... Probably not.
If the game was called "alien anal probers from outta space!" then sweet as.
But aliens don't really fit the zombie theme IMO.
rd.
I thought the aliens were zapping people/animals on earth turning them into zombies? If not that, then yeah WTF!
Quoted from Concretehardt:The love fest is over! I will back any owner voicing concerns on the blog.... That is a promise!
Nope...love fest is over at TBL threads! Not over, just moved! LOL!!
1 month later
Quoted from kaneda:Which one pin cost 27k? And YIKES! What do you get for that much. That's insane. Must be an amazing pin.
Kingpin is more than 27k... 
Quoted from slapshot:He could ramp up his production of AIW and future games but I think his ass would get skinned if he is planning to double up his production on MG's and RAZA's. Delays are one thing but changing the contractual terms for these limited games would be a low that I doubt Jpop would sink to.
Nope. It's already been done to MG. What are there now, 50 of them?
Quoted from ChrisVW:Does anyone else know of any other numbered limited edition collectables where quantities were increased after the sale? I'm not talking about double dipping or milking (anniversary edition, collectors edition, ruby red edition). I'm talking about announcing and selling 100 of X and then making and selling 5x more of X than promised.
I have been combing google and haven't found much other than a Nightbreed DVD limited numbered edition on Amazon where 5000 were announced and sold then they upped the number to 10,000.
Is there a term for this practice, other than breach of contract or fraud?
BBB. Was announced at a number, then Gene found more parts and could make more. Numbers increased.
1 week later
The art is indeed JPOP design and it's based on his sketches. He directs the artists and creates the composition of it all. That said, EVERYTHING rides on his MG reveal. It better not be a box with artwork on it...or even a playfield with art. This bitch needs to be playable or I doubt he'll get any more money from anyone.
Quoted from kaneda:I think John will show something, doesn't have to be a full game reveal, but some of the curtain will be pulled back. And it's not all or nothing anymore. Dutch showed a full game and look where they are now? I'll take whatever new bit of Magic Girl is ready to be shown.
Oh it's all or nothing all right. A non-playable game = death.
Quoted from frolic:-There apparently will be a super secret MG reveal this week that a few people will see
-No idea when anyone else will see it
Well, then that's not a "Rug Reveal" as has been touted.
Quoted from lllvjr:It's a beautiful machine
So you've seen it? If so, grow some balls and post pics here. Quit with the mysterious neener neener comments. The NDA is not enforceable and it's not like the game will ever be made anyways. Spill all you know!
Quoted from Concretehardt:So pimp I didn't realize you were in on RAZA, Have you completely given up on these ever being built?
Pretty discouraged...zero confidence at this point. I'm hoping for a playable MG tomorrow for all to see.
Quoted from Aurich:Welp. I take no joy in being right on this one. Where's the guy who was telling everyone they'd better hurry up if they wanted a chance to get in on AIW after the awesome reveal?
And where's Ice? Not one owner can describe what they saw in generic terms? Complete BS and FAIL by JPOP here. He will see zero more dollars from me until I see a physical MG is being shipped. I suggest and urge all others to do the same.
Quoted from ChrisVW:Just art at this point. Higher quality versions of previously obscured art, but just art.
That's weak...
Quoted from lllvjr:More by midnight then more over the holidays... Patents still pending lol.. Those can take years by the way
Seriously dude...either post something relevant (ie no more sly neener neener listen to what I saw comments) or stop posting entirely.
Quoted from JosiahCox:Wow....just wow.
I didn't realize that Pinside was an art collectors forum..............
2 years into this project and the big "rug" reveal is artwork????
Yikes. That thing looks like it hurts. I'll be right back with some lube.
Seriously, I am so sorry you guys are being used in the way you are. It's just not how people should be treated. I do thank you though for giving the pinball community a very important lesson on who can be trusted.
I hope you all find a way to get your money back. It's pretty damn obvious by the lack of accountability that your needs don't factor into the equation. I mean, can you imagine trying to get game support even these games do get produced?
Now for the love of Pete - somebody post up some pictures. I want to know what 10K worth of playfield art looks like.
2 years? What is it now, 4 or 5 years on MG?
Quoted from Aurich:No he can't. He hires artists to do everything. He paid some kid to draw girls in cat ears, wrote up a concept, and put up a webpage.
I dunno where this idea keeps coming from, Jpop didn't do the art for any of his Williams games, and he's not doing them now. You're paying him to be a designer and idea man and director, and that's what he's doing, coming up with ideas. Maybe some designing. Not much directing.
This I think you're wrong on Aurich. The man can sketch VERY well. I guarantee the pussycat drawing is his. He draws all concepts and then gives it to some kid to "draw" digitally. Not saying he did this for any of his Williams games, but definitely with the Zidware vapor ware.
Quoted from Shrub_Light:I'm gonna take a shit in my shirt and mail it back to him.
LOL!
And the JPOP thread takes the lead...Dutch Pinball falls into second. Which one really blows up and leaves the other in the dust? Taking bets now!
Quoted from kaneda:I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just asking...can you afford a MG?
Why do you care and how is that relevant?? You are definitely trying to be a jerk and you're doing a damn fine job of it. Aurich is pretty well respected on these boards...people like hearing his opinions whether they agree with them or not. Your opinion? I doubt you could find more than 2 people who give a shit about anything you post.
Quoted from benheck:I know almost as little about BHZA as you all do. We hashed out some ideas that I won't discuss as I too signed his NDA.
I didn't feel I was very closely involved, so that's why I didn't give a whoop when he changed it.
RE: Tesla, anyone who walked into my office and saw my Tesla backglass hanging on the wall is/was free to "borrow" the idea from me since I did nothing to protect it. I no longer feel it's a strong title for pinball anyway (no license, no sales) increasing my level of not-giving-a-shit.
There's nothing more I can tell you from my end.
So you think JJPs 3rd game won't sell? No license, no sales? I hope you're wrong about that!
Quoted from Pinballfantexas:Wanna see some MG and AIW head ove there and check it out.
http://inspire.adobe.com/2014/12/18/zombies_yetis_pinball.html
That's incredible! There are at least 3 MG prototypes in those videos. And they look freaking awesome. Now JPOP doesn't really get to reveal himself as this video trumped him. He should just release the goods at this point. Still have manufacturing questions too.
Quoted from S37VEN:That loop da loop looks like it could be a ton of fun -- not unlike the Pinball Magic skill shot which I love. Looks like he also has a few TOTAN genie lamp spinners in there. I'd love to buy one of these when they come out as JPOP is hands down my favorite designer. With that being said, I'd rather pay up for one once they are out. Good luck to those who are in -- I hope that you are somewhat reassured by what you've seen today.
IF these come out you will indeed "pay up" for one of these.
Quoted from epthegeek:That'd be a good way to generate some income for the shop. I don't get why he doesn't sell PF art, translites, shirts, and whatever else he can. Income is income.
You know, his website says pinball art for sale or something like that. A while back I inquired about buying some framed art and got zero response. I'd buy some nice art to hang in the gameroom if he just effing responded.
Quoted from ChrisVW:That price is WAAAAY more than I was told. Wow...
edit: CONFIRMED. Maybe the price increase is to make up money lost on another game?Screen Shot 2014-12-20 at 1.50.4... 1.9 MB
Screen Shot 2014-12-20 at 1.50.2... 1.7 MB
Yes, the AIW price was the same as RAZA I believe. $9865.33. What a deal!!!
Quoted from Atomicboy:It's still just a two flipper game? Why do new companies limit themselves to just two flippers...
It has magna flippers ala TZ too...at least two on MG, one on RAZA I think. 3 real flippers on AIW. *Real in design...not that it will be made ever.
Quoted from PPS:I've never seen a ramp take 'a couple of weeks' ... couple of months maybe ... there is alot of modelling that need to be done, proofing, etc ...
Hmmm, not sure you should be spouting on about time and delays at the moment...get your ship righted first, quarter 2 of 2014. LOL!
1 week later
Quoted from lllvjr:Keep telling ur self he's protecting ur product... Two more years from now when raza still hasn't shipped and u have a melt down like mg owners did after expo
You don't know PDXMonkey if you think he will have a meltdown. He's chill and doesn't let shit ruin his life. It's only pinball.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from frolic:The ACDC is a good example. Stern's development costs are the same for ACDC as they were for Mustang, around a million.
But they sold ~1000 Mustangs and ~6000 ACDCs... besides BOM, that is pure profit on 5000 machines.
THAT is a real business model. Not to mention the profit from ACDC carries them over the hump of titles like Mustang.
They sold 1000 Mustangs?
Quoted from PinPatch:I like all the individual elements of the playfield art but in my opinion as a cohesive playfield it looks disjointed.
You can't tell until it's colored and the playfield is populated (plastics, ramps, etc...). That said, I think it looks really spectacular.
Quoted from Frax:Nailed it.
Ugh.... /facepalm. I had high hopes for the art on this if it ever came to fuition, but those hopes just got smashed bigtime. That is one ugly Alice.
*shrug* I like that Alice. This isn't a Disney representation. She has attitude and isn't some trembling whiny little girl. Plus, she's hot...hot women in pinball = win.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from frolic:Reviewing the blog post, this quote is really infuriating me:
"we continue to build our solid pinball foundation of really high-end work which we will be able to present in our next round of investor talks next week."
So, does this mean that POTENTIAL investors get to see everything NEXT WEEK and us suckers that have been paying for the party aren't going to see shit?
Yes.
Quoted from jwilson:You're not investors, you're just customers. And customers are the lowest point on the totem pole.
That's the problem here. Should be the highest on the totem pole.
Quoted from frolic:RAZA for certain. There is "a hope in hell" that anyone can manufacture 19 pinballs. But then he has to follow that up producing 6x more with whatever money is leftover.
Well, let's go AIW then...
1 week later
Quoted from rai:As does Coca-Cola, Apple, Google etc.. what's your point?
Would you rather have no new drugs being developed?
You think they should work non-profit?
I was going to write something similar...I hope they make assloads of profit. $ drives innovation and more research. It has to be worth it to them to keep innovating and finding cures for stuff. It's not all for the good of mankind.
Quoted from Pinballmike217:Can you imagine what WOZ would have looked like if JPop had designed it?
Yeah, Robby the Robot, Godzilla, and Mars Attacks Alien vs. Dorothy (sexed up).
Quoted from SadSack:**Content of post removed by mod**
I'm kinda sad I missed the flame...
Quoted from jazzmaster:Maybe..maybe not. The last post on the dev blog was Feb 6th and it was just a re-post of the factory stuff from the other blogs. The last meaningful posts were back in January when he revealed the cabinet and bg artwork with the atrocious looking Alice that reminds me way too much of this:
JenniferCoolidge_4034_5.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
I don't see it...
Quoted from jazzmaster:Probably just me...more so in the bg art that he posted. Something about the face. I like some of the Alice renderings better than others. The one you posted is fine as are some of the earlier ones. The bg Alice has this really stern look which somehow reminds me of Jennifer Coolidge. I am just hoping that JPOP tweaks it a little more. Color will probably help too.
I wouldn't be worrying about AIW at this point. LOL! If that game ever happens it will be like 5 years from now.
1 week later
Quoted from TigerLaw:LMAO, what a horrible moment for me to post in here...right after that post. Ha!
LOL...pretty funny.
Quoted from benheck:That "we will assemble it!" sounds like John Math...
2 round trip flights within US: $1000
Shipping machine: $325
2 nights hotel X 2 people: $400
Ben Heck 8 hours labor: $1000
Total: $2725 Net loss ($1725)
Math. The basic skill to have before starting a business.
$1000/day...that's a damn good rate. $125/hr. No wonder JPOPs broke at those rates!
Quoted from benheck:Nah, not interested in that job.
What if these games don't even shoot well? In theory they should, but I've never even seen a ball roll across one in a video, or in person.
Predator sucked ass but at least they brought it to shows.
I like the honesty. Predator did suck ass. I was always told "it wasn't set up right" every time I played it.
Quoted from Rarehero:Even if we haven't ordered one of these games, we're ALL invested. When these things become shady and ultimately crash and burn like Predator, it causes a negative ripple effect throughout the whole hobby.
Absolutely.
Quoted from jazzmaster:John has been pretty hard at work on AIW:
foto_no_exif.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
No question the man can design games. That AIW looks effing tits! But we'll never see it produced. He only likes doing the "fun" stuff it appears and doesn't know how to really get things done. Shame. These machines look incredible, but they'll never see the light of day.
The good news for JPOP after all this BS is this: building a fully working MG and publicly revealing it will result in most people going back to gargling on his nuts! 
Quoted from GLModular:No worries, Aurich.
As for non-payment vs. cash flow, the two should not be taken as having any "direct" relation. Keep in mind that somehow Zidware expanded and is now leasing twice the space they had when I was last there, so somehow there is justification (and money) to pay for that, but not to pay the outstanding invoices for GLM, Cointaker, etc.?
Quoted from Aurich:It's like paying for a high class call girl, and they send you a Real Doll instead.
Quoted from Aurich:It just strikes me as strange that John will show an entire foamcore game to buyers, complete with art mind you, but no one has every seen a flipping whitewood.
StevenP and I were talking, and I promise I'm not trying to throw you under the bus Steve, but he seemed to be under the impression that John had this notion of skipping the whitewood, and just, TADA, having a finished game. Like that was going to be a big timesaver.
Now maybe Steve was mistaken, really trying to not get him in trouble here, but no buyer has seen a flipping whitewood that I'm aware of, Steve is as close as anyone to John and doesn't think there was one. It would suck if after all this someone get the game flipping and the shots don't even feel right.
That just seems crazy to even type. Someone tell me that's not what's going on. Apparently something was flipping at one point, there's a buyer report back in this thread about it.
Also, I feel like writing buyer instead of owner, you guys so far have been paying money to buy, but don't actually own shit.
I thought PDXMonkey and other actual shop visitors saw one? If not then JPOP doesn't actually know how to design games. You need a whitewood to refine.
Quoted from Strange:John is the most creative guy in pinball.
Lyman, Keefer, and Nordman may say otherwise.
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:indulge me
I just meant those 3 are more creative than him.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I would say Steve Ritchie probably has the most hit titles under his belt (hence the title "king"), followed by Pat Lawlor.
The problem with SR is he always puts out the same layout with a few minor tweaks. Nordmans games are always different. Nordman should be the "king" from a design + creativity standpoint.
Quoted from Pinballs:I've lost $4.75k on Predator, and $20k+ on MG and RAZA. I will never pre-order again! They go very quiet when you ask for a refund...
Shysters. Let's be blunt about what Kevin and John Popadiuk are. Prove me wrong, 'Jpop'. Pop goes the weasel indeed.
$25k.
Quoted from DCFAN:It would be a fascinating scenario if the owners got together and hired a programmer after the game was delivered with little code. A physical game delivered without much code but open to code mods would be way better than no game at all. We all know the art will be outstanding.
Maybe that would be something the pre-buyers should group together and discuss with John to get something for their hard earned money.
No way. Full game or full refund. All or nothing.
Quoted from Mr68:I think its probably best she be left out of the discussion.
Why? Maybe she'd light a fire under his ass. God knows nobody else can.
Quoted from Rarehero:"The Master's"? Who's the Master!?
You in some kind of cult, Ice!?
JPOPs the master and less and less people are drinking the kool-aid. 
Quoted from Strange:If it takes another 3-4 years for JPOP to produce another game in the quality of Cirqus Voltaire IMO I feel the wait will be worth it...
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Pretty sure your in the minority one that but must say I respect your enthusiasm! Just seems crazy to me to have so much money tied up for well over four years when there are so many great games out now to buy/own. As always to each their own.
Yeah...what is it, $16k for a MG? 7-8 years of tied up cash and you're hoping for a CV?? Buy a CV right now for $6000-$7000 if that's all you want. Hell, buy two! You'll be lucky to see a game period!
Quoted from Strange:Cirqus Voltaire is the greatest pinball ever made. To me its the only obvious Masterpiece when it comes to pinball machines. I only see a Zidware pin having the potential to match it.
» YouTube video
JPOP?
1 week later
Quoted from StevenP:P.S. A few others here have visited the workshop within the past few months. You saw this stuff too, right? I wasn't really hallucinating the whole thing, really....
Everyone saw the MGs in this thread. Looks done except for the ramps. That's progress, but soooo far from being done. He hasn't flipped the game with a real ramp?? WTF?? Seriously, then there's code, music, sounds, light shows, tweaking the whitewood (which can take months, ask Ritchie), etc...then comes manufacturing!!! Ask JJP and Spooky how easy that is. We're not even talking about testing at shows and such how JJP, Spooky, Stern, and even SkitB do! Pipe dream.
Why are you working on RAZA and AIW, JPOP? Get MG playable.
Quoted from Aurich:Who's flipped it?
Who's lifted the playfield, and seen that the parts are real, and wired up?
Who's seen the inserts work?
Who's see the LCD screen interact with the game?
You know what I'm saying? What have we really seen? 3 machines in the background of a video.
How can we know if we're not really just looking at:
this?
Does anything at this stage deserve the benefit of the doubt? Show it flipping, or it's not real. That's what I think.
Exactly. I don't see any possible good ending to this. Even if it's 95% designed as a best case scenario (and that's pretty effing far fetched) it's still gotta be built and coded. With no funds everyone is boned.
1 week later
Quoted from Rarehero:I guess the main complaint with ToM is lack of wizard mode? *shrug* ...I wouldn't have seen it anyway lol. CV can be easy but it's still such a fun experience I don't mind getting to Join the Cirqus on a regular basis.
It's got one...it just blows. 
Quoted from Rarehero:I'm only paying this much because it's Lebowski. I suspect this may be my last NIB pinball purchase.
LOL! Yeah, riiiiiight.
When that Rush machine comes you'll be in line, oh yes, you'll be in line.
Quoted from Rarehero:I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.
The rules in TOM are solid. It's a great game IMO. People are sheeple in this case I think. It's not THAT easy either...I've heard that it's "too easy". Open the outlanes and it's not easy anymore. And who cares about tournament exploits? I mainly play to advance through the game personally. Score comes second.
Quoted from Coyote:To clarify - CV 1.x is horrid.
CV 2.0 is fantastic. However, that wasn't John. That was Cameron, all the way.
To clarify further...TOM has good rules and shoots fantastic. It just has a crap wizard mode. TOTAN has decent rules too that are hampered by a couple minor bad decisions (get rid of the wishes for jewels and make the modes more difficult...like 3 ramp shots instead of 1 and the rules become good to great).
Quoted from metallik:Needs left orbit rules reworked to be less lucrative
This wouldn't change a thing, because all the points in TOTAN come from the lamp and bonus (when not exploiting HAREM bugs). This game was designed for beginners and the rules are just awful. 70K for mode shots when one can get 10M in bonus just by racking up spins and shooting the captive balls?
It's a simple points tweak. The rules are there.
Quoted from metallik:The "rules" that require you to make all of 2 shots each to finish 4 of the jewel modes?
The "rules" surrounding the most basic main multiball ever in a WPC game?
The "rules" that let you play genie battle forever, scoring all the way?
The "rules" that make the left orbit only ever worth one award at a time?
Yea, great rules.... most system11 games outplay this turd turd.gif
ALL easy fixes. The basic framework is there.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Yep! Trying to work on 3 games (4 if you include Kiss) instead of just finishing one.
5 if you count the bowling one and 6 if you count the EM. I'm sure there's more.
1 week later
Ice, reveal who this "investor" is. Why is it secret? It doesn't make sense. And how do you know who it is? I don't want a $16000 MG with 199 units made. I don't want half value towards and unlimited MG model at $10000. I don't want 1/2 credit towards the same machine I bought in for. I want out or the machine I bought into at the price I bought into it at. If that can't happen I want Zidware and John to burn.
Other owners please contact me if you want to group up for a group suing of Zidware/John. I don't think we can do it individually.
StephenP, if you really helped write this letter to customers then you are a real dirtbag too.
Quoted from ChrisVW:We already have an owners group on FB for that.
I'm not part of that...how do I get in on that?
Quoted from ChrisVW:I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1
. You can always walk away later.
Because JPOP walks if you sign. I'd rather he burn with bankruptcy.
The whole thing doesn't make sense. Look at JJP. They had manufacturing experience. They had suppliers. They had an actual manufacturing line. It took ages to crank out WOZ. It's taking ages to crank out Hobbit. MG ISN'T complete. All parts in the game are custom. There isn't even a prototype complete to test on! No effing way these are made in 2 years or less! There won't be 199 suckers. There isn't enough money to complete, source parts, prototype, program (code/sounds/graphics), and build/ship these games! They would have to sell 500 or more units for it to make any semblance of sense...unless this "investor" is willing to go deep in the red for the good of pinball.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:iceman....... why haven't you addressed this question? You have a response to every other question yet you avoid this question. This question is the best question asked in the last 20 pages of the Jpoop shitnado.
QSS
Do you REALLY need him to answer that?
Quoted from pinballrockstar:What if stern commits,how would you guys react?
A $16k game? No thanks. Too effing expensive for one game with 199 units. Plus, it's not the game I want. Besides, Stern is doing MMr...took 2 years and still counting to make that one WITH Stern and CGC! That's with the game 100% complete design/code-wise. Parts were already sourced and made for reproduction replacement parts. I just don't see ANY way for this game to get made without Pintasia taking an enormous financial loss "for the love of pinball". ENORMOUS. No. Effing. Way. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll present a plan in the next month that knocks my dick into the dirt?
Quoted from jonnyo:Then the game will have unknown rarity. If the rarity is unknown, it's not a factor in the purchasing decision, just the merits of the game itself. Is the game itself worth 16k?
No game is.
Quoted from lowepg:Solution:
Stern hire Zombieyeti and puts him in charge of art for Game of Thones or SW or Jaws....
Or
JJP hires him and they won't have the hot mess they had completely redoing TH artwork on their next title...
Becuase right it seems like folks are trying to build a pinball company around gorgeous artwork....
That's like picking out a wedding dress THEN going out to try to locate a wife....
Not to get off topic, but JJP #3's artist is John Youssi...I think they're covered on great pinball art. 
JJP #4: ZombiYeti? Yes please!
Quoted from Rarehero:Bill & PDXMonkey play a game of MG against each other...winner keeps it.
In that case it's Monkeys...he's a damn good player.
Quoted from RobT:lol
I didn't mean to imply a vendetta Ben, I just wasn't sure if the new cab vendor was capable of doing the direct print stuff that had a clear coat over it (which looked great).
I was told it was a supply issue...Jack couldn't get the clearcoated cabs fast enough and that caused a big part of the delay. Whether that's true or not, who knows? He also said the decaled cabs cost him more (!) than the clearcoated ones.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:As Ben mentioned, it might have been cost related, or a combo of cost/"vendetta".
Regardless I miss those early Woz cabs with the Charlie method done.
Have you taken a close look at the latest Woz Standards? They have extra "circle" cut out around the flipper button area. Pretty tacky IMO.
Extra circle? I've seen decaled games and don't know what you're referring to... 
Edit: the hobbit games are decaled. Look at those.
Quoted from Honch:Pintasia's rebuttal/spin should be interesting.
You can't make this stuff up!
Quoted from Concretehardt:By people do you mean non customers who have no money on the line? If some of you are trying to run Bill off your doing a great job of it! Those of us who have been scammed by JPOP have already lost our money IMHO Bill is our last hope of getting something more than nothing. As an "owner" I feel I have nothing to lose and everything to gain if Bill can pull this off.
Just to recap... the money is already lost, JPOP pissed it down the drain! Without Bill its game over (no pun intended)
I think it's game over either way (there's not enough money left to make these things)...except by not signing the "no sue" clause means at least JPOP won't get off scott-free on top of not getting a game or money back!
Quoted from benheck:» YouTube video
Best Hitler video I've seen...LOL'd multiple times.
Quoted from applejuice:As a recap in case people didn't see my previous posts over the last few weeks. The code running on the Mg proto is code I wrote up til May 2014, at which point I was forced to stop due to non payment of invoices.
There are plenty of features and items written, as previously described inc ramps, locks ,multiball etc, but it is not complete. I'm sure you'll see more videos as the weekend progresses. I'd let people there feedback and see what the comments are.
For people there be sure to have a good look over everything code wise including all the system service mode stuff written to.
Applejuice, youve played the game likely the most. Care to comment about shot feel, layout and overall design?
Quoted from Rarehero:This is still the real story here. I've seen a handful of people shrug their shoulders and say "well, it's gone - let's move on" and a handful of people expressing interest in lawsuits.
Where are the rest of the almost 200 people who paid for these games? I can't imagine most of them just walking away....they will want their money back or revenge. Most people don't just "walk away" from $10k-20k. Those who want revenge clearly aren't going to post about it. This story is far from over....
I would like John to pay financially, but I'm only in ~$1800 before I stopped sending payments and demanded a refund that obviously never came. It's not worth my time or money really at this point to pursue anything, so I'm just going to "walk" and not look back. For those with $10k, $20k, even $30k+ in??!!? I'd pursue if I had that much in just to make sure John didn't get away with anything. Hopefully enough pursue it so I can cheer from the sidelines.
Quoted from DCFAN:Isn't it risky for DP to be using light tubes since JJP has already done that in WOZ and Jack said they have a bunch of patent applications for WOZ and Hobbit?
Anfd that pic looks like they have the same issues as WOZ. The light isn't "thrown". Look how dark everything around it is. We'll see when it's done...
Quoted from hank527:Yeah they are not in on AIW but have multiple MG's plus a prototype and more than 1 of RAZA.
Well, prototypes exist at least. He bought one of those??
Quoted from frolic:I'd be curious how many people sent money in after then.
He ansolutely asked me for more money after that date (and after I requested a refund). He has/had zero accounting and zero organization.
Quoted from benheck:I stick with my original assessment from a few months back: John gambled that someone would buy him out - and he lost.
This isn't criminal - plenty of companies start with the intention of acquiring capital to fully achieve their goals. But those companies also have products to show - John just had art.
Ironically, all the chances to sell out seems to have come in the last six months (deepRoot, JJP, Pintasia) at which point the projects were so far behind nobody wanted to take a chance.
Maybe he should have thrown his hands up in despair back in 2013, at which point the progress of the games wouldn't have been so laughable.
It may not be technically criminal, but its dishonest and sleazy to lie to your customers about it. Actually, wait...how is it not criminal to lie to your customers about making the game? How is it not criminal to solicit for more money AFTER knowing he's out of funds and never going to make a game? How is it not criminal to spend deposits on Kiss, an EM, pussycat bowling, AIW, etc, etc? How is it not criminal to pay yourself a grossly inflated salary for YEARS while producing next to nothing? ALL of this stuff is criminal in my book...whether or not it is seen that way by the judicial system is another story I guess, but JPOP IS A CRIMINAL.
Quoted from Pinballs:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as the hearing yesterday was solely to add more plaintiffs to the complaint, it's too early to comment on an outcome, because there isn't one yet. That said, I confess to not reading this thread consistently any more, so may have missed a needle hidden in the haystack that is this thread.
He's asking robt what he thinks the outcome WILL be.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:Sorry, I fucked up there.
How did I come up with 95%?
I played the Whitewood which is more complete than the prototype. There's video proof of that.
My biggest mistake was I trusted what Jpop told me.
For that I apologize, but I would also like to point out John wasn't giving refunds past that date. I doubt my posts kept anyone from getting (or not getting) a refund.
Dude, youre an optimist. No need to apologize tfor that.
Quoted from NYP:Why is it OK for Ben to say whatever he wants about JPOP but Jack gets criticized when he says something? And he said it on the JJP forum not pinside. I'm not saying whether I agree with what he said, just pointing it out. Double standard or just the usual Pinside drama?
Basically because Ben is on the "burn JPOP" train and Jack is on the "JPOP's suffered enough" train. Pinside agrees with Ben.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:At least 2000. 1000 ECLE's and 1000 standards.
Plus Ruby Reds and the Australia "rescue" editions. It's gotta be at least 2000.
Quoted from Rarehero:What about the people who bought the game?
Are they not people? Do they not have families? No, no, no...the perp does NOT get sympathy! Especially since he's NEVER apologized or done anything to make this right. F John Popadiuk. F his family. They stole from my friends and lied to them. Jack's sympathy is misplaced.
The fact that Popadiuk is STILL "working" on AIW (apparently) is absolutely mother-effing outrageous! If JPOP manned up and at least apologized and admitted to effing up and wasting everyone's money then we might be talking about a different story...but the man (no, child) is acting like NOTHING HAS HAPPENED AND IT'S BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!! It's just crazy! You can't make this shit up!
Quoted from epthegeek:All these numbers ... all you need is one:
1) Be a criminal
I corrected that for you
Quoted from epthegeek:I don't think John had any purposeful criminal intent - I think he's just crazy/naive.
Really??
Edit: maybe not at first, but he is clearly there now.
Quoted from epthegeek:You guys think he's evil, I think he's just "artsy" and certifiably nuts. Either could be true.
I dont know if evil is the right word, but he is knowingly being fraudulent at best right now. He knows the show is over and he can't possibly live up to the contracts, but he arrogantly continues to spend his customers money. He is crazy, we agree on that. You don't think he realizes the jig is up yet continues to play with other people's money? Is he still drawing a $90k /year salary? Really, is he?????
Concretehardt, don't sweat it...there is NOTHING on those boards that isn't immediately posted here. True story. 
Quoted from chessiv:Budget is always an issue. Remember, the days pat was at stern the budgets were pretty healthy. And hobbit looks cost reduced compared to the original woz. Hell, the current woz is cost reduced compared to the original woz. If you aren't in business to make money you won't be in business long.
What? Have you seen the mechs in Hobbit? I doubt the BOM is cheaper than WOZ. If so, barely. The current WOZ is cost reduced? Huh? Are you talking decaled cabs vs cleared? If so...per Jack the decals cost more. Believe it or not. Wherever you go...there you are!
Quoted from John_I:Seriously? You're telling me he had any restrictions when he made Safecracker? The game was an original theme, complete new form factor (size), unlimited budget, etc, etc and it sucks. The only selling point is it is a unique collector's item and it is "different". roadshow was original theme, wide body, and seemingly unlimited budget and it sucks big-time too. I love Lawlor's early work, but I am not holding my breath for JJP #3 based on the "what have you done for me lately" theory. Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
Safecracker and RS are AWESOME! Have you played them? If he builds like that (with a better theme) I'd be happy. We know the rules will be great at least with Ted and Keith.
Quoted from lowepg:Maybe that's his best STERN title, and certainly could be called a "good" game, but "great"? No way.
It's an old conversation, but I think PL did his best work at B/W and his Stern stuff was just weak... some bright spots in a few games, but as a whole, disappointing.
Even his B/W games that perhaps weren't "great" certainly had some very unique ideas: Banzai Run, Safecracker, Earthshaker, etc.
In comparison, the Stern stuff looked like he was mostly "going through the motions" on mostly licensed gigs.
RBION and FGY are his only good Stern games IMO...I would venture to say they're even great. RCT, Monopoly, NASCAR, and CSI on the other hand are not great, but at least they ALL have cool ideas and aren't cookie cutter layouts.
Edit: I'm not sure what you mean by "going through the motions". Those games have unique features. SR is more "going through the motions" with the same recycled layouts...albeit awesome ones.
Quoted from CraigC:the audio and rules in Road Show are its worst points. it would be a great game to P-ROC.
It's FuhRRIIIIDAYYYYy <AAARGGGH>
Maybe swap heads so it's not Ted that swallows
-c
The rules on RS are great other than limited stacking ability and linear progression. Two tweaks to do. I actually really enjoy the audio too...it's intentionally campy. Music is average and theme stinks, those are the games worst points.
1 week later
2 weeks later
Quoted from TOK:Even worse, its like he's rearranging them after it sank.
Far from sunk yet. He's still captaining his ship!!! Look at those AIW pictures and tell me he's sunk. He's still playing the victim and trolling for suckers/victims!
As long as we're posting juicy JPOP quotes:
"Thank you for the email. At this time I am unable to offer refunds today. As you know we had a small marketing group called Pintasia come to to handle the business, sales, marketing, accounts and game manufacturing. I put my full faith and trust in them (signed a bad deal) as we spent a lot of time together, went over all documents and game development before the NW Show. I did my very best to show all in the proper stages at the studio during their visits. Actual the Alice game was their favorite of the 3. The magic girl preview was poorly done at the NW Show, all the booth items, promos, banners, prints and outreach they promised to do was never done.
Their one main person to run the new entity had a questionable background and resigned just before the show. I was even told not to attend, which now was a mistake. They did not know how to do this at all. Since then they have abandoned our deal, do not reply to any contact and left me to scramble now as the online forum rancor since march has just about gutted everything I have built the last 3 years. Only 1 of my owners has actually called to offer help and business ideas, as folks get I am a good designer but not so good a CEO.
One thing I have learned is that "outsiders" think all this pinball making is easy money (john is rich and must drive a Porsche), but once they spend a few weeks with me they understand that it is difficult and endless hard work to do this. So they then bail or go online and post something negative. And yes many people offer to help, bash me online "I offered john help but he's an idiot" but forget to mention they want a fulltime gig, 80k a year to then come in only 2-3 days a week and work remotely. Many also come to look around, get a free lunch but have no intention of working at all. This does not work at all.
But nicely all has been documented from day 1, all business items, working arrangements and even all the partner meetings and investor presentations as my attorney helps on all. And is always available. I had hoped a small group of owners would propose some "take-over" to reorg and move forward as the IP created is well done. This was never a money making venture for me at all. Actually I will be living in my van soon.
Currently we are battling a complaint filed by 20 owners and sadly it is taking all our time and resources (which I told folks it would), and has pushed away 3 "other" fantastic partner companies in the months recently. The work I am doing was to better the pinball community and make new games. I have been updating the (pinballinventor.org) site as I work thru development (blogs are closed), new meetings also with some other new groups to assist me in building the business the next 3 weeks. But I have you at the top of the refund list.
I was thinking of coming to pinside with an update and some thoughts on how to move forward, but I do not think it would turn out to be "positive" for the sake of the IP or the owners.
John"
This was an e-mail John recently sent to a non-pinside friend of mine. So he's blaming Bill and Pinside as well as the 20ish people suing his ass...he really is unbelievable. You can't make this up!
Quoted from Pinballs:Do we know for sure that that email is genuine? Should be forwarded to Bill at least, as confirmation.
It's so sad (if true) that Jpop is saying such things about Bill. Bill achieved closure on the issue one way or the other- an immense achievement. Had Jpop bothered to do more work on MG in the last 4 years, it might even have led to MG being made.
100% genuine.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Mr68:Hey everybody, maybe give Nate some slack. I understand your frustration but he's not a trial lawyer or a 60 Minutes investigative reporter. He's a pinball enthusiast and this was not a courtroom.
Nate probably went with his natural personality which is appropriate for him. And sometimes softball interviews can put a person at ease and they let their guard down.
I'm surprised Jpop's lawyer allowed this interview. (Edit) If the lawyer even knew.
Cut him some slack??? Why? He posted in this thread BEFORE the interview!!! He knows the situation JPOP created. This Nate guy should have grabbed JPOP by the dick and asked him the tough questions, but he straight up didn't have the balls. This "interview" was pathetic and worthless. What a waste of time.
Quoted from iceman44:He shouldn't have given John a forum to let him just come on and tell the same BS stories he's told all of us in the past.
Which was done probably as part of his legal defense to demonstrate publicly that he was still attempting to build these pins, which is a farce as we all know.
What was the point of the interview again? I like Nate and C2C, but's he wrong in this case.
Yes, thank you. What was the point of the interview? To let John say whatever he wants? To let him ramble with excuse after excuse? I'm sorry, but TWO hours of drivel and zero pressing questions to make that snake squirm was disgusting to listen to.
3 months later
Quoted from benheck:The real question is how much money (if any) did John take AFTER putting out a letter saying the only path forward was with a buyout?
Up until that letter it was just a failed business and a broken contract. After Bill bailed... it was truly beyond all hope.
No Ben, it was fraud loooong before that!
3 months later
3 months later
Quoted from toyotaboy:Looking back, it's amazing he allowed himself to accept so much pre-order money knowing full well he had to make good on promises stated in contracts.
He had to make good on promises?
Nope, he didn't apparently.
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:Why would the IRS care about John? He set up a company, took investment and it failed.
He paid himself too much but I'm sure the C Corp subtracted the taxes, SS, Medicare, unemployment etc.
Regarding blooming onions, is it just me or do they overcook them nowadays?
I don't order them anymore because of that...always overcooking them!
4 weeks later
4 months later
1 week later
Even if it ships (crap or not), so what? Is RAZA and AIW being completed too? If not, what's the point here?
Quoted from Whysnow:same people that sold their IM for top dollar with insider info weeks before the IMVE was announced?
Yep, that was BS.
It looks to shoot ok actually...not great, but not bad. It has some pretty cool ideas. I'd take one over a BM66 for sure.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Mr68:OK people, prepare your down votes.
First of all I agree, Applejuice and ZY deserve whatever out standing debt is owed to them, plus a machine, plus they should be paid interest. Period, throw down the mic or whatever.
But what about all of the other vendors that also deserve to be paid? I know of other vendors that are also getting screwed and not all of them are on Pinside. One person had his invention stolen (or its idea) after showing it to Jpop. Shouldn't he be compensated also? Of course he should.
There is a long line of people that Jpop owes outside of our little Pinside world and I think they all deserve to be paid.
You guys with no involvement are continually coming up with these feel good solutions and telling other people how they should spend their money. If you're so horrified why don't you contact these guys and send them a donation.
And BTW, who is going to monitor these payment so that its paid out fairly? Certainly not you guys that post half baked, unrealistic solutions based on insufficient data. You guys are too busy rocking in your chair collecting up votes for being obvious on Pinside.
And since when is anyone under any obligation to pay Jpop's debts other than Jpop himself. This is the real world people. Life is unfair and that's what the court system is for. And speaking of the court system, imagine the Judge asking Popadiuk under oath how he intends to pay off his debts.
"Well your Honor, it seems my victims are paying off my debts".
This is the same as people on Facebook sharing or clicking "Like" on a, Save the World meme and believing they've done something meaningful. Get real.
Rant off, sink me with your silly down votes.
Invention? What is this invention you speak of? Nothing is THAT unique that I see.
Quoted from Roostking:Lol rich dudes talking about gut busting pain. If it was so painful, you guys would be dumping it for what you paid.
For some, I am sure it was torture, for others, not so much!!
Was kinda my thought...gut-wrenching pain? You got your game. Sell it for what you paid and move on. The $30k of greedy profit in these asking prices is comical. Talk to a RAZA or AIW buyer about gut wrenching pain. They funded your game and get nothing!
Quoted from fattrain:Speaking from first hand experience...
Sell it for what you got into it dude and move on. It would likely move for the original price. Why prolong the "pain" longer than you need to? 
Quoted from fattrain:If I add up all the money I have in AIW / RAZA / MG + legal fees + transportation costs then I'm into it for mid to high 20's.
So even if it sold for 30k I'd be making a few dollars when I've had my money tied up for 5+ years. I don't (and shouldn't) feel the least bit bad about making a couple bucks.
Unless you've sold every game you ever bought at a loss then don't act like making a few dollars on money invested over time makes me an asshole.
You aren't supposed to roll the cost of RAZA, AIW, legal fees, and transportation into the price of the game. LOL. Everyone is looking for a profit these days on pins in general. It used to be you'd buy a game, fix it up and make it nice and feel great to sell it at the same price you bought it (without adding in the cost of parts or time you had in it). You seem like a nice dude and it will sell at what some sucker is willing to pay...but it still seems wrong that vendors, RAZA buyers, and AIW buyers are left holding the bag while MG owners are reaping profits. In my opinion, these games should have been seized and auctioned off to be split amongst all. It sucks that you were duped not once, not twice, but THREE times by JPOP. I'd like to say that's all on JPOP, but the third one is squarely on you. I'd venture to say the second one is too to be honest. You're lucky, be happy with that. I'm entitled to be a little bitter as I'm out money for a never to be existing JPOP game. If that makes me an asshole, I can live with it.
1 week later
Quoted from RobT:My post had zero to do with any bankruptcy law. It was an opinion regarding the supposed outrage at MG buyers because they actually got their pins and RAZA/AIW buyers have not. People are implying that MB buyers stole money from RAZA/AIW buyers because they (RAZA/AIW buyers) "funded" the MG pins.
My reference to MG buyers were always going to get their pins first was a simple statement about how, in the normal course of business, they were, in fact, always going to get their pins first. And that's exactly what happened.
MG buyers aren't the bad guys here...and I don't understand why so many people here are acting like they are.
No, they are not the bad guys...but it's painfully obvious these few MG games were cobbled together with haste to avoid the lawsuit hammer. Things aren't even hooked up to work on these games. Complete assemblies and parts are missing. They aren't completed games. It's JPOP squirming out of trouble. The worst part is that JPOP probably now feels great that his games are selling for the prices they appear to be selling for. That narcissist is stroking his ego over it...guaranteed. Meanwhile, people like applejuice and Zombieyeti are out dough, vendors are out dough, RAZA/AIW buyers are out dough. It seems wrong that these sham, lawsuit avoiding machines are privately reaping profits when so many are out money.
It's never been about people thinking MG owners are a-holes. It's about a failed Zidware and liquidating all their assets now. These are not completed games. They're bullshit boxes of lights thrown together so that weasel can walk from a few lawsuits.
7 months later
2 months later
3 months later
1 week later
Quoted from vdojaq:Approximately 1200 units among all versions. That's a huge failure.
Selling ~250 CSI or NBA games is a huge failure. 1200 $8000+ games sounds pretty good to me.
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