I just wish there were more details on the blog, there are almost no actual details and I'm an owner. The big secret is that there is no big secret. Everytime someone asks to show something it's met with "will show this later" or "waiting for the patent" because "this will get pinched".... I really don't understand why I signed an NDA because I can't really think of anything that I know to disclose. All the known info is already public knowledge (LCD, great art already posted to FB) any other info or specifics like shipping info, production status or who is involved in what fashion isn't on the blog.

There is definitely a game being developed and the art will be nice, I'm sure of it, but that's all I know and it's a little disappointing that I bought into the premise of a shared development experience.

My mistake in not being specific, I was referring to MG not RAZA. The RAZA blog is updated once or twice a week and usually has color proofs or at least some PF shots or cabinet art concepts etc..and a more lively comment forum. We know much more about RAZA than MG and have no complaints about that game so far (other than timeliness and the encroaching "other themes" possibly overshadowing the main theme).

MG...never seen the back glass, never more than a 6-10" area of the PF in a single shot, not more than half of 1 side of the cab, little in the way of proofs, I couldn't tell you a single toy on the game or what the ramps look like or how many of them, or the lighting system details, or if neon is in the game or a single rule or sound or programmer or artist etc...

It never even occurred to me that it would take this long. I was thinking maybe 6 months after the payment schedule was completed (the original timeline) games would be shipping. That was 2 years ago...

Here we are 3 years later...

Or if playfield/cab art is final.
Or when the proto(s) will be finished.
Or when production will begin.
Or when games will be shipped.

I just want a date, no ones looking to hold Johns feet to the fire but when a date comes and goes and two years go by it gets a little worrying, discouraging and frankly I'm losing interest. I don't get the impression the project is a priority anymore.

That doesn't work, I've tried to ask as we roll into year 4. Now I have a fancy red "User cannot create comments" error.

John just posted this to twitter!

unloaded at expo!

B0FRra1IEAA5JdI.jpg

Extremely.

That's probably my favorite part of the cabinet. If you think about it for a minute I'm sure you can figure it out...

I'm disappointed he didn't bring it. And if he did bring it, I'm disappointed he hasn't shown it. I'm disappointed there has been zero communication on the owners blog in the last 5 weeks. I'm disappointed that when I try to post on the blog I get an error saying that comments are not allowed from me. I'm disappointed at the disproportionate amount of time spent on other projects while MG waits. I'm disappointed at the lack of details given to owners, specifically playfield photos, playfield art, toys, programming info and LCD pictures and video.

Yes, I will agree with you there. My disappointments are purely related to business decisions, delays and communication failures. The game itself (that I have seen) is phenomenal, without question.

I am a buyer of both, but if hypothetically both were going to be released in 30 days which would I buy?

RAZA.

I have, I even went to visit once but nothing changed. I'm still in on the games and I'll stay in until the end but I passed on Alice due to my experience with these two games.

Agreed, and thank you for writing what you wrote this morning on the blog. You echoed my issues with the project exactly.

If John doesn't step up and make the experience a good one for owners then there might not be enough people willing to sign up to make a game #4. I know that's why I didn't sign up for AIW.

At the expense of his owners trust and the contract we signed as buyers.

...and without a discount to the early owners who paid in full whose games will inevitably be devalued.

Could you imagine the apocalypse that would occur on Pinside if Stern said "let's now make triple the number of TRON LE's"?

_{Post edited by ChrisVW: iPhone autocorrect hijinx}

Agreed, I would probably have been less upset if he had showed up with a box of merch to sell.

It's ironic...an empty cabinet is the perfect metaphor isn't it?

I can confirm this.

Only if it actually goes toward BUILDING the games.

I got the same letters but I've never understood this? Why do spooky and all the other boutique shops get away with using wms parts but John says he has to design everything from scratch? Couldn't he just buy retail parts from PBL and use them?

50

Myself and others have ask MANY times for updates, including status updates and revisions to the production schedule. It's always either deflected or ignored. I'm livid about the way the magic girl project is being handled.

Payment in full was required for the original 25 in August of 2012, I'm not sure about the additional 25.

I dislike all the aliens and robot stuff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he licensed it. He couldn't be so wreckless as to think that no one would notice or that he could get away with not licensing it...

I think we all might need to be more active and bit more critical on the "courtesy blog".

Touche!

I found out after a Google search that if you sign up for email notifications and reply to the email it will post your email reply as a comment and that actually works.

Cannot comment, others too I think.

_{Post edited by ChrisVW: deleted}

I have no idea which one actually. I never got any feedback. But I have NEVER posted anything that could be considered vulgar, profanity, hateful or mean.

I have a feeling it was about my asking for more updates or pointing out that there hasn't been an update in weeks, what's going on, what's the status, etc. Which I still believe are valid questions. I don't think my comments differed much from yours, but it was before the tide turned which now seems to be happening on the RAZA blog.

Based on johns comment yesterday about a great expo showing and all the posts here to the contrary, I'm wondering if he doesn't realize that this is a problem? Living in a bubble perhaps?

That's interesting...

Can you give us a NDA friendly summary of what you saw? Anything close to completetion? Did it look like he was getting ready to start production? What % would you say we are through this? Did you see anything that changed your mind, either good or bad?

PDX, I'm excited to hear what you have to say. I was going to wait until the end of October for john to post his big reveal, if it's a no show then I will probably have something to say on the blog.

All fantastic points, I will add one more. Buy doubling the agreed upon amount of games produced, he has essentially cut the secondary market in half.

I will be posting mine in the morning.

blurred ones, with certain sections unblurred.

Alright...sending my opus on the blog now. Please everyone else do the same if you haven't already.

I totally agree with you except on one point. I think the place it matters the most is on the blog. That's where John is most likely to see it and realize it's time to change course and deliver us some answers.

No, when he does show photos they are very strategically positioned photos. Like of a 4-8" section of the slings for example. Basically if you want to see anything you have to buy a plane ticket to Chicago.

Same here. 100%

Damn....!

I sugar coated it, but my hats off to you for being blunt!

Agreed, but honestly I hope this doesn't come across as a mob, but as an intervention.

I hope you are wrong Ice, but I fear you are right. I have serious doubts if this will be addressed.

Yes...this is just extreme frustration.

Who is J..S? I have seen his posts on the blog many times and always love his bluntness.

Is that you gprotein?

Ah ok. Well it's nice to finally meet you. I always enjoy reading your posts as you usually cut through the bs and just say what everyone who doesn't post is thinking.

I forgot about that...yeah that was ugly then it had to turn into an apology-fest to get things back on track. At one point slapshot confronted him about giving a date or revising the timeline schedule and that got ugly too. A few days later we got a "I need to work on that" and the timeline never materialized either. It's definitely an eggshell situation because we all have a lot of skin in the game and if you say the wrong thing...

I will agree as well. I haven't had time to go though my owners blog emails yet, but when I woke up this morning and saw 25 new messages and posts from the blog overnight I got the impression that our concerns were received. PDX's post above with the MG playfield pic seems to be a show good will from John as well. If things can stay on this course I think we'll all be happy in the coming months.

Big thanks to all the owners for voicing concerns and keeping it civil, and huge kudos to JPOP for stepping up.

It appears this thread might have caught the attention of Coast2Coast pinball. listening to episode 117 "Atomic Madness" that just went up.

I wouldn't read too much into those dates. I think the interviewer googled the games and came across the Pinside listings. Both of those dates appear in the Pinside game info:

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/magic-girl
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/ben-hecks-zombie-adventureland

This is where I'm at too. I've pretty much stopped checking the blog, especially once I learned it was a courtesy blog and not a owners forum like I thought. I'd say that I just don't care anymore, but that's not completely true I'm actually upset and bitter about the whole experience. I will NEVER do this again.

Try $27k.

They made an app. It was called Pinball Wizard and it was free.

Very well said.

I have a feeling the January reveal is going to be accompanied by a request for the final installment. I'm not going to pay it either. When my game is actually being assembled I'll pay the last installment but not a dime before then, especially when the game is still at least two years out. Also if the game is two years away why is it being revealed in January? It certainly won't be ready to produce in January. I'm expecting little more than a white wood and an attract animation. Prototype play field hardware and zero code is my prediction.

Without getting into any specifics, you'd said you played a few games, so there was code? Or was it just a flipping playfield? No doubt it would be primitive at this stage but if there's at least a few test menus and some basic scoring that would be great.

That's even better than I was expecting. Thanks!

Who's on first? Yes

Which spot? Just one spot for 27k? Or both spots for 27k + 17k + 10k? Or my dog Spot for $10k?

When the number was upped to 50 last time there was a refund offered.

If he changes the contract terms again, who in their right mind would ever sign up for another one of his preorders? If you deal in the collectables market and destroy the collectibility, as a business you're done.

Nope. We got a letter in the mail notifying us of the production increase and an offer for a refund if we weren't onboard. This was after full payment was received. It was nicely worded and all but it was basically a "my way or the highway" letter.

No, of course not. I wanted the game for the game. The high price was justified by the low production number.

But I'm also not in it to be giving out interest free loans.

I completely agree with you but that's his problem not ours. I held up my end of the contract when my check cleared.

Yeah it sucks but since there was a refund offered I figure there was no other options. This was back in July 2013.

Does anyone else know of any other numbered limited edition collectables where quantities were increased after the sale? I'm not talking about double dipping or milking (anniversary edition, collectors edition, ruby red edition). I'm talking about announcing and selling 100 of X and then making and selling 5x more of X than promised.

I have been combing google and haven't found much other than a Nightbreed DVD limited numbered edition on Amazon where 5000 were announced and sold then they upped the number to 10,000.

Is there a term for this practice, other than breach of contract or fraud?

Since we are now 7 days away from the big reveal here's my prediction:

15% chance - Game revealed to everyone, pinball news picks up the story, the game looks fantastic and everyone is excited.
40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see. No ship estimates provided to owners.
30% chance - December 17th comes and goes with no reveal. Owners blow up the forums and get no response for days. If response does occur, questions are not answered.
15% chance - Game revealed to either owners or everyone, but nothing really shown. Game not turned on, pics taken from 30' and blurry or strategically cropped, etc...

What do you guys think will happen on December 17th?

No details provided other than Dec 17th and that it would be a Lebowski style "rug" reveal.

I don't know what that means. I don't think John has seen TBL movie, so I doubt he understands that the rug is a plot point in the movie and I hope he doesn't actually put MG on a rug. That would be a facepalm moment for sure.

I'd settle for just an answer to Frolics question.

Someone posted in a previous thread the artists name, I don't remember but he was from deviant art. Let's say even a modest $50/hr for a contract artist, that's still $150,000 in art for a single game. It's sounding more and more like we are screwed.

That was my brief experience.

If it plays as good as it looks, I believe so.

Copyright issues aside, the purple on dark blue on light blue color palette just looks like a color muted jumbled mess, especially when backlit with purple LEDs. Earlier versions looked better in my opinion. Sometimes less is more. "Every frame is so dense"

Come to think of it there are a lot of similarities between John and George Lucas. (4:50)

If it's anything less than the greatest pin ever made, he's about to get the full "lebowski effect". Just not the one he's thinking of.

South Park has some good advice on the whole preorder thing...

1 day 10 hours 8 minutes until this ship lifts off or blows up on the launch pad.

The time for bits has passed. The game should have been showed at expo. The mob formed and John promised a reveal in December. It's the eleventh hour and the clock is ticking. For all my cricticism I have been a supporter both financially and sympathetically but...

image.jpg

We are at Johns mercy right now because he has our money. Real soon he is going to be wanting that last RAZA installment (ie the MG BOM). That's where the leverage comes in.

I know of at least two other MG owners that might just go full "Phil" if this Magic Girl reveal is anything less than expected so I wouldn't worry too much about not getting details.

I'd like to help apply that pressure but I don't know any of the details. He doesn't share details of the game we paid for so he definitely isn't sharing vendor/supplier issues with us. Post them and I'll ask on the dev blog.

Spot on for both projects. The only difference is RAZA owners occasionally comment on the forum. The MG blog is a wasteland.

In curious to know what errors were presented as facts also. I didn't see any errors.

Several owners have tried to sell their spots on here, some at a loss, because John won't give refunds. The requests aren't even declined, John just doesn't even respond.

Owners have begged and pleaded on the owners forum for a refund and the requests are just ignored. We paid a lot of money up front, timelines were missed and then the communication slowed down and has nearly stopped. Now we have no games, no communication and no explanation.

I just checked and the last Jpop comment was 10-21.

I would love to know the answer to this, because it's starting to sound like that was a line to get us off his back. I never heard another mention of this project manager ever again.

This. Not another dime until my game is sitting on the loading dock.

If he doesn't reveal publicly it's over. Anything less than a public showing of a functional game will be too little too late. I don't mean to come off as pessimistic, it's more that I'm irate at the lack of communication and respect for customers. It's disrespectful to ignore customers repeated requests for a timeline and basic info.

He did announce that he had hired one to drive the projects. Have you been there in the last few months?

Just art at this point. Higher quality versions of previously obscured art, but just art.

I don't see it. I see one at 9:34 and 1:26.

I am unable to comment from the website completely. It says I don't have permission. I had to go to settings and enable email and comment notifications. Then I can reply to the email and it gets posted as a comment. Maybe that will work for you too?

The NDA is a farce, JOHN better start revealing something

That's what I think. I found a thread on some forum where they said that was a bug in the blog software, it seems to work although sometimes it copies part of the email header into my comments.

Under "Blogs I Follow", click edit (top left of screen) then select the blog (you have to be following it, just click follow on the main page). Under the subtitle "You get no post and no comment emails for this blog" click edit. Set both options to "Instant".

Let us know when you do this and someone will comment so you get the first thread email. Then just reply to that.

Unfortunately that's about the most relevant thing about the reveal so far. Still haven't seen the game.

He did say everything would be up by midnight. I'm hoping this isn't everything. I guess he has two more hours so maybe something will show up then.

Well that explains all the "digital watermarks" to trace leaks. Extreme paranoia seems to be the case.

...and spent on GoDaddy domains apparently.

You pretty much nailed it. Just art so far. His description said everything up by midnight so he has another hour I guess.

I was kinda hoping for a stern style featuregram, cabinet shot and an overhead playfield shot.

I would have just been satisfied with a timetable though.

image.jpg

Iceman, what are our options?

Me too. At this point it almost feels like he's waiting for someone to break it. I bet if you break the NDA he'll try to kick you out and keep the deposit.

With all the warnings on site of NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED, CONFIDENTIAL, DO NOT RELINK, DIGITAL WATERMARKS for tracing leaked images etc etc etc.... I know it would be a monumental task to individually watermark the images with some kind of user identifiable info, but at this point I'm guessing he's just paranoid enough to actually do it. At which point he'd keep the $ and no longer have to listen to us whine on the blog, so basically a win-win for him and everything to lose for us.

I wish Aurich was in on this project, only so he'd light up the blog. Too many of the owners are still silent.

in·vest
verb: invest; 3rd person present: invests; past tense: invested; past participle: invested; gerund or present participle: investing

To expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture.

To devote (one's time, effort, or energy) to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.

To buy (something) whose usefulness will repay the cost.

I have more than a brand new car worth of cash invested and that's the reason why I am not silent on the blog.

I don't know. I don't know enough about digital watermarks. Probably not but then you need to worry about exif metadata from your camera.

There's nothing even worth leaking in my opinion.

I just posted a follow up...

No but you can preorder it